a question for all of you

[Bronzesnake]

L.C.

Freewill says, “I’ve done it Lord, I accept Jesus and now you are OBLIGATED to save me. You Promised. So you have to do it.”

 That's close, but no cigar my friend.

 Free will says..."I have accepted your sacrafise Jesus, and now I am saved. You promised to save me, so now I believe you will do it"

Bronzesnake

[Left Coast]

That's close, but no cigar my friend.

 Free will says..."I have accepted your sacrafise Jesus, and now I am saved. You promised to save me, so now I believe you will do it"

Bronzesnake

It still makes God obligated to fulfill what you believe to be his promise.
He is no longer sovereign.
Plus we still have that paralytic man example, no freewill decision there.  
Your heart has to be changed -- Born Again -- you can’t do that.
You can contribute just as much to your second birth as you did to your first -- did you get your parents together?  

John

[Bronzesnake]

That's close, but no cigar my friend.

 Free will says..."I have accepted your sacrifice Jesus, and now I am saved. You promised to save me, so now I believe you will do it"

Bronzesnake

It still makes God obligated to fulfill what you believe to be his promise.
He is no longer sovereign.
Plus we still have that paralytic man example, no freewill decision there.  
Your heart has to be changed -- Born Again -- you can’t do that.
You can contribute just as much to your second birth as you did to your first -- did you get your parents together?  

John

  I must respectfully say - that's ridiculous!
 That is convoluted reasoning my friend...

How can you be sure He will save anyone?
 Using your logic, God can't keep any of His promises without losing His sovereignty, so when He says "you're saved, and going to Heaven" He won't be able to keep that promise either.

 As far as the paralytic man...first of all, Yes, his sins were forgiven, but there were two good reasons why he was forgiven...

 Mat 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.  
 
 Mat 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.  

 Notice how Jesus never said the man was forgiven because he was pre-chosen? He was forgiven because of the faith of the crowd, and so that the crowd would understand who Jesus was. They were Jews...they knew only God could forgive sins - Jesus was showing them who He was.

 Now look at another healing and see what Jesus says to the man afterwards...

Jhn 5:12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?  


 Jhn 5:13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in [that] place.  


 Jhn 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.  

 Jesus warned him that he must be repentant, or "a worse thing come unto thee" what's worse than being lame?... an eternity in Hell. In other words, that man was not necessarily saved, unless he obeyed Jesus. Remember, this was before Jesus died on the cross, so that man wasn't able to be saved by Jesus' sacrifice at that time. He was still under the law. Why would Jesus give such a warning if the man was already saved?

 Look at the reason Jesus gives whenever He forgives...

Luk 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.  

 Luk 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, [the same] loveth little.  


Luk 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.  


 Luk 7:49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?  


 Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.  

 Faith has saved thee. Not because she was "chosen" by God, rather, because she had faith.

This was also the case in the Old Testament.
Faith, no pre-selection.

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.


 Once we accept Jesus into our lives, He enters our hearts and changes us...we are thusly, born again.

 Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

What does "whosoever" mean to you L.C.?

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.  

 1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.  

  1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.  

 1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.  


 Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.  

 What you believe goes against everything Jesus ever said about our choosing Him.

 Why do you think Jesus keeps driving the point home..."I stand at the door, and knock" In your mind, He shouldn't be knocking, He should just walk in.

 if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 Why would Jesus try and trick those who are "not chosen", time and time again with such verses as these?

 If any man hears my voice, and opens the door. This verse is conclusive. We have the choice to "open the door" - ( accept/choose Him) once we do that, He then comes into our lives and begins changing us.

 The only way you can make your scenario fit in the face of such verses is to add your own convoluted reasoning - such as "It still makes God obligated to fulfill what you believe to be his promise. He is no longer sovereign."

 Why should we spread the Word if God has already pre-chosen who will be saved L.C.?

 Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.  
 
I think where you are getting confused is in the fact that God is omniscient,  and inevitably knows who will choose Jesus and who won't, so in that manner - yes, there is “predestination”. However, not in the way you subscribe to, which is usually associated respectively with the names Calvinism and Arminianism.

Bronzesnake

[Left Coast]

As far as the paralytic man...first of all, Yes, his sins were forgiven, but there were two good reasons why he was forgiven…

You gave a good and meaty answer, I enjoyed your response.
While we disagree on the meaning of the story, I feel your response is a solid and legitimate reply from the viewpoint of your doctrine.
I do have differences with your answer, but I think your argument is valid.

Faith has saved thee. Not because she was "chosen" by God, rather, because she had faith.

Faith is a work.

1 Thessalonians 1:3  Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Romans 12:3  For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith[/u].

The friends of the paraplegic man did not have faith Jesus was the savior, they viewed him as a healer and perhaps a prophet, much like the prophets of old.

1 Kings 13:6  And the king answered and said unto the man of God, Intreat now the face of the LORD thy God, and pray for me, that my hand may be restored me again. And the man of God besought the LORD, and the king’s hand was restored him again, and became as it was before.

Concerning your second healing, just because Jesus healed him physically does not mean He healed him spiritually. So yes, he was still under the law.
My thought is he wasn’t saved. Many that Jesus healed weren’t saved, in fact it is interesting that Jesus was the perfect preacher and yet few became saved while He walked on the earth.
After He went to the cross Peter gave one sermon and 5,000 became saved. All at once. 5,000 made a freewill decision all at the same time?
Not likely.
In fact the bible tells us it was Gods work.

Acts 2:47  Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.[/u]

How can you be sure He will save anyone?
 Using your logic, God can't keep any of His promises without losing His sovereignty, so when He says "you're saved, and going to Heaven" He won't be able to keep that promise either.

He doesn’t say, "you're saved, and going to Heaven". At least I don’t hear voices.
Salvation is not a promise, it is a change.
We are born again, given a new heart, we are made into a completely different kind of a creature.

2 Corinthians 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

We have a physical body and we also have a spiritual body. Unfortunately we are born spiritually dead. That is the seed of sin in every person. Because of the sin of Adam we are separated from God.
Our salvation is a result of God changing us.

Ezekiel 11:19  And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezekiel 11:20  That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Not a promise, a change. Our soul is resurrected, just as our physical bodies will be on the Lords return.
That is why Paul talks about the war that goes on inside him. Our unsaved physical body wars with our saved soul. Because we are spiritually alive we now want to walk in His statutes.

Romans 7:22  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 7:23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Romans 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Romans 7:25  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

One of the most destructive results of the freewill gospel is the number of people that believe they are saved, because of their choice. ----  But they were never changed.
They have accepted Jesus as their saviour, but He is not their Lord.
Look at all the “Christians” getting divorced today. (Matthew 19:6)
Look at all the “Christians” that are divorced getting remarried. (1 Corinthians 7:39)
Look at all the “Christians” living together unmarried. (Hebrews 13:4)
They can love their enemies, but they can’t love their own spouses.

They seek their happiness in sin.
They reject Gods laws and commandments, his Lordship.

What does "whosoever" mean to you L.C.?

“Whosoever believes”, the bible is crystal clear, it is His work that we believe. The whosoever are those he has chosen, and drawn to Him.

John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Philippians 1:29  For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

We are not able to have saving belief on our own. We can have an intellectual understanding, the same kind of belief that the devils had.

James 2:19  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

John 12:42  Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

I think where you are getting confused is in the fact that God is omniscient,  and inevitably knows who will choose Jesus and who won't, so in that manner - yes, there is “predestination”.

That would be called “foresight” not predestination.
Let the bible define predestination.

Ephesians 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Ephesians 1:5  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:9  Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Ephesians 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Ephesians 1:13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Verse 9-He made his will known to us, according to His pleasure and His purpose.
Verse 11-Predestinated by His purpose, who works all things by His will.
Verse 13-Because it is His will and purpose we hear the truth, we believe, and are sealed

Ephesians 1:19  And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

We believe ACCORDING to the WORKING OF HIS POWER, not our working.

No one can withstand God if it is His intent to save them:

Acts 11:17  Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

[Bronzesnake]

L.C.

Believing that, choosing to accept Jesus is a "work" is, in my, and many other Christians opinion - ridiculous.

Hey, whatever floats your boat.

Bronzesnake.

[Left Coast]

L.C.

Believing that, choosing to accept Jesus is a "work" is, in my, and many other Christians opinion - ridiculous.

Hey, whatever floats your boat.

Bronzesnake.

Can a baby do it?
Man has an intellect varying in ability from a baby to the Einstein’s of the world.
If you do something it is a work.
Does accepting Jesus require your effort?
Yes there are many Christians that believe as you do, and there are many that believe as I do.
There are also many that believe in reincarnation.
And if the number of Christians believing one way or another is important to you we are both out numbered by the Catholics of the world.

From Merriam-Webster Online, http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=work&x=18&y=19


WORK:
 
1 : activity in which one exerts strength or faculties to do or perform something: a : sustained physical or mental effort to overcome obstacles and achieve an objective or result

More importantly the bible says it is Gods WORK that you believe.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

The bible says it is God that adds to the church:

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The bible says NO ONE will come to God unless HE draws them:

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

And the bible says that EVERYONE He draws WILL come to Him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Of course those that believe their salvation is based on their work of accepting Jesus do not believe they have done a work.
A ridiculous position to take.

[Bronzesnake]

L.C.

 

Can a baby do it?
Man has an intellect varying in ability from a baby to the Einstein’s of the world.
If you do something it is a work.

 That's a bit disingenuous L.C.
Yes, it is a "work" If that was your only assertion, then, that would be fine - I would agree. However, you go much farther than this L.C. You assert that we have no FREE WILL to chose Jesus as our saviour, in spite of the many verses which clearly state Jesus telling us that WHOSOEVER believes in Me, shall be saved.

 Here are verses which Ollie posted in order to show that this type of "work" is rightious in God's eyes...

 John 6:27.  Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28.  Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29.  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 In your mind, this choice, or "free will" is a sinful "work" in the same manner as those who do not believe in Jesus - and who believe that - as long as "I'm a good person, who does good things, then God will accept me" That's not Biblical my friend.

Bronzesnake.

[Left Coast]

L.C.

 

Can a baby do it?
Man has an intellect varying in ability from a baby to the Einstein’s of the world.
If you do something it is a work.

 That's a bit disingenuous L.C.
Yes, it is a "work" If that was your only assertion, then, that would be fine - I would agree. However, you go much farther than this L.C. You assert that we have no FREE WILL to chose Jesus as our saviour, in spite of the many verses which clearly state Jesus telling us that WHOSOEVER believes in Me, shall be saved.

I have covered WHOSOEVER a couple of times, it comes from the Greek word ‘pas’. Whosoever does not mean freewill.


 

John 6:27.  Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28.  Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29.  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 In your mind, this choice, or "free will" is a sinful "work" in the same manner as those who do not believe in Jesus - and who believe that - as long as "I'm a good person, who does good things, then God will accept me" That's not Biblical my friend.

Bronzesnake.

As the verse says IT IS GODS WORK THAT YOU BELIEVE.
I wish I could address this some more but I have to head out of town for a few days.
There is still John 6 to deal with.

John

[bds195]

I am deist and I believe in God because of the universe. How can everything be here if there is no being that created it all.

[Bronzesnake]

L.C.

I have covered WHOSOEVER a couple of times, it comes from the Greek word ‘pas’. Whosoever does not mean freewill.

 No, it doesn't...it implies it.

 I know full well where the word comes from, and just because you pointed it out doesn't mean you understand it's meaning - as a matter of fact - it's quite clear that you do not understand it's meaning. I will show you the proper meaning of 'pas' at the end of this post my friend.

In your mind - why did God create all the unsaved people?
If - as you mistakenly believe, God has pre-selected His team - then why bother creating all the others who will simply be fried, regardless of whether they accept Jesus or not?

Your God kills babies, and the mentally retarded. Your God enjoys watching people suffer, who haven't got any chance at salvation whatsoever.

That is not Jesus Christ my friend - no matter how you slice it.

 Your explanation of "whosoever" is just ridiculous...

L.C. Quote...

“Whosoever believes”, the bible is crystal clear, it is His work that we believe. The whosoever are those he has chosen, and drawn to Him.

 Why use the word "whosoever" then? That word is seriously out of context in every verse which it appears with your incorrect interpretation of the word. Why even use that word at all? -  why not simply say "My chosen"

“Whosoever believes”, the bible is crystal clear, it is His work that we believe. The whosoever are those he has chosen, and drawn to Him.

 If that's true, then how do you explain the following verse...

 Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

 Here's the way you understand that verse...

Those who I have chosen, shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

 Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

  Here's the way you understand that verse...

 Mat 16:25 For Those who I have chosen will save his life shall lose it: and Those who I have chosen will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

 Your interpretation...

Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Those who I have chosen shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Luk 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and [in his] Father's, and of the holy angels.

Your interpretation...

Luk 9:26 For Those who I have chosen shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and [in his] Father's, and of the holy angels.

Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Your interpretation...

Luk 14:27 And Those who I have chosen doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Your interpretation...

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That Those who I have chosen is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and Those who I have chosen shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but Those who I have chosen shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Your interpretation...

Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but Those who I have chosen shall say shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

 Yours...

Mat 10:14 And Those who I have chosen shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

 Shall I continue?


Dictionary meaning...
whosoever

\Who`so*ev"er\ (h[=oo]`s[-o]*[e^]v"[~e]r), pron. Whatsoever person; any person whatever that; whoever.

Whosoever will, let him take . . . freely. --Rev. xxii. 17.

New Testament Greek Lexicon

Original Word...
pa'ß

Transliterated Word...
Pas
1)individually
each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
 
2)collectively
some of all types

 L.C.
Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and saviour? Or are you hoping He has chosen you?
 
 This discussion is over for me L.C. You are in a severe minority on this forum with your convoluted reasoning my friend. It wouldn't matter how long this thread continued - I will not change my belief in the sacrifice of Jesus and the offer of eternal forgiveness and salvation He offers to us ALL. This is not an exclusive club L.C. It is inclusive - it is for everyone, and anyone.

Now that you have been shown the correct meaning of the word "whosoever" you might be able to grasp a truth which has so far eluded you my friend. Please re-read the following verses...

Luk 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

Luk 7:23 And blessed is [he], whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Mar 9:41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

Mar 9:37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.

Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.  

Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.  

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.  

Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

This is a verse (below) that you should take very seriously my friend. If you have not accepted Jesus as your personal Lord and saviour...

Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.  

Jhn 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:

Jhn 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?  

Jhn 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Bronzesnake.

[Bronzesnake]

I am deist and I believe in God because of the universe. How can everything be here if there is no being that created it all.

 This topic hasn't got anything to do with whether we believe in God or not. We're debateing a doctrinal issue on free will.

 By the way - what makes you think God abandoned us? especially in light of what Jesus told us.

Bronzesnake.

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Bronzesnake,

Brother, your love is obvious in trying to help bds, but he is one of the party goers here with a fairly large group. We were the entertainment, and he is gone, along with other identities. There may yet be others involving hacking, spoofed accounts, and an unknown number of people here to laugh at us.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Bronzesnake]

Oklahoma Howdy to Bronzesnake,

Brother, your love is obvious in trying to help bds, but he is one of the party goers here with a fairly large group. We were the entertainment, and he is gone, along with other identities. There may yet be others involving hacking, spoofed accounts, and an unknown number of people here to laugh at us.

Love In Christ,
Tom

 Thanks for watching our backs Tom. You have a tough job here, and you take a lot of guff - a lot of us come to you when we're being attacked, and you jump right in there and make the world right again...

Thanks my brother....again!

Bronzesnake.

[Brother Love]

tell me. what makes you beleive in god? there is no proof anywhere. I think its pretty stupid that people beleive in god just because their parents them it was true or a missionary told them it was true. the truth is you dont really know. the bible could just be a book of fiction. and you might never know. you could just go nowhere when you die. so, what makes you beleive?

i'm agnostic by the way

...i'm agnostic by the way Your in one of my FAVORITE religions


Brother Love

<))><

[nChrist]

BronzeSnake Said:

Thanks for watching our backs Tom. You have a tough job here, and you take a lot of guff - a lot of us come to you when we're being attacked, and you jump right in there and make the world right again...

Thanks my brother....again!

Bronzesnake.

Brother, you are most welcome, but ADMIN gets all of the credit for this one and I don't know how many more. bds195 was only one in the Christian hunting party. I have an idea about others who are still here, and I just reported three others who are back from being banned. WOW! - the devil is busy attacking Christians Unite. I give thanks that ADMIN has gone to so much trouble in keeping Christians Unite up and going.

Love In Christ,
Tom