Once Saved Always Saved???

[nChrist]

Hello Brother Dan,

The answers are already posted in detail in several threads, but you're most welcome to post it again.

Love In Christ,
Tom

 

[lltimbs]

I was raised Baptist and taught once saved always saved.  This is also the teaching in the Alliance and Evangelical Free churches that I have attended.  If this teaching is true, they why does Hebrews 6:4-6 say what it does?

Hebrews 6:4-6 (New International Version)

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
I don't believe in once saved always saved because people can backslide. There are many scriptures about backsliding. Also there is a scripture about your name being blotted out from the lambs book of life. You always have to be accountable for your daily lives. GOD DOESN'T LEAVE YOU, YOU SIN AND LEAVE HIM. Many christians that believe this will be left behind in the rapture.

[nChrist]

lltimbs said:

GOD DOESN'T LEAVE YOU, YOU SIN AND LEAVE HIM. Many christians that believe this will be left behind in the rapture.

Sister Lorrie,

If you think that sin causes you to lose your Salvation, you need to go back and study some more. Salvation isn't conditional on man being perfect and without sin, mainly because there are NO men who are perfect and without sin. As a result, NOBODY would be saved. You're probably mixing ages, and that never works. GOD Promises Eternal Life based on Faith in JESUS CHRIST. JESUS CHRIST finished the work on the CROSS, and man has nothing worthy to add. Faith in JESUS CHRIST is accounted as Righteousness, and that's a good thing because that's all the Righteousness man has. ALL men sin, and the righteousness of man is as filthy rags. This is why JESUS CHRIST is the only way to be saved. I think that you need to take another look at the basics.

GOOD NEWS!

1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Romans 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever!

[gonzodave]

Dear topic writer,

Your username is "saved_by_grace." Whose grace? The work of God as a gift for undeserving mankind is grace; not, the work of man for God. There is no meeting of man in a common ground between heaven and earth. This was once and only accomplished by the unique God-Man (Theanthropos), the Last Adam. the pioneer of our faith, where nothing exists except in Christ. Permissively or decreed.

The doctrine of separation in 2 Tim 3:5 as given by the Apostle Paul, in his last writing before his death to his "son in Christ," Timothy reads: "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power therof: from such turn away." KJV

If you are not trusting in Christ Jesus for salvation - who are you trusting? How could Christ give back those whom the Father has given Him (Gospel of John)?  How could a regenerated spirit deny the Christ that saved him in the act of willfulfully giving back his/her salvation?

You assert a doctrine that was a "post-Reformation" return to Catholicism. (Ref the 18th century writings Augustine v. Pelagius, of Luther v. Arasmus, and Charles S. Spurgeon along with Dr. Toplady on Arminiainism in the 19th century before critical analysis of the Bible formed modern-day liberal theology) You are probably shallowly repeating what you've heard from others and are not aware that you are <i>de facto</i>  claiming a doctrine known variously as the "Governmental, Rectoral, or Federal theory of atonement" that would devalue the infinite value in the death of Christ for salvation. This theory was codified (after the Pelagius; 4th century>Socinius>Arminius; 17th century>Hugo Grotius who fled a prison term, was granted asylum in France, and is considered the genius of codified Maritime Law; who asserted that his theory could be proved like a mathematical formula of reason without the Bible's witness by the ancient legal codes of Roman Law; 17th century>Dr. John Miley's Systematic Theology and others; 19th and 20th century) all of whom mentioned where judged heretical, except for the modern John Miley, et al.. This theory is an exercise in rationalism and religious humanism tailored to the sin of pride for only "good people" who deserve to go to heaven.

Why is this "theory" of a benevolent God who administratively forgives sin because of the"illustration of punishment" example set by the death of Christ heretical? A God who out of "fairness" and as an example must not forgive those who do not comply to a fickle, unstated, and dubious "scale of justice." To claim this as a valid theory, imputation to Christ of "all sin" and imputation of the "righteousness of Christ" to the accepted faith of a new believer as his/her permanent standing before God (i.e., justification by faith - a thread that runs through the entire Bible) must be denied. Also, the penal satisfaction in the reconciliation of man to God provided by the death of Christ must be denied. In addition, the "complete satisfaction"  that provides for the potential salvation of all unregenerate mankind is denied.

To answer the feeble few,  incorrect hermanuetical and exegeted verses which relay on the upside-down definition of English back into the KJV; instead of the underlying original Greek into modern concepts - which are then claimed as teaching a "loss of salvation."  The KJV only and a Webster's abridged Dictionary are NOT the proper  basis for interpreting Scripture. Most Arminian seminaries have long ago ceased from requiring a knowledge of Greek of Hebrew from their graduates.

The following quoted summary is available at (a-voice.org/main/12people.htm)  which as basic and complete as I could produce for the reader of this reply. This  "false teaching" has, by far, the majority forum in Protestant, neo-evangelical Christianity today. A teaching that joins hands with the Catholic salvation where a future determined "scale of justice" good "news promise" of evangelism which leaves the believer and his loved ones without the assurance of being joined together with Christ by the baptism of the Holy Spirit at the moment of accepted faith - in this life and the life that follows.

[finney]

  If you must do anything to maintain your salvation you are not saved, you are on probation. 
  I CANNOT save myself, I CANNOT keep myself saved, I CANNOT even will at all times to be willing to keep myself saved.  You, however, are different.  You CAN save yourself, you CAN keep yourself saved, and you CAN be willing at all times to be willing.   
  Those of you who must DO something to keep yourselves saved, ready for the rapture, maintain acceptance by God or any other thing I have the utmost understanding of and compassion for, having trod that road myself.  I still fight with the law of sin and death, mostly because I hear it all the time from Christian radio so-called and preachers of the gospel -again, so-called- that use the law as a cudgel to -keep their people in line-.  Thank God for the Lord Jesus.  HE is the resurrection and the life.
  We are not subject to the law of sin and death, and those who claim that when they sin they seek for God to forgive them don't know their Bible, because without the shedding of blood their is NO remission, and the wages of sin are not broken fellowship with God, they are not a feeling of mortification or estrangement, they are not a hindrance in prayer, they are death.  Flat out no other, death.  Death is the wages of sin, and without the shedding of blood there is NO remission.  So, whose blood shall it be?  Yours?  Will you seek to crucify the Lord Jesus again and again every time you -sin-, or will you finally come to not only the cross but that empty tomb and get life everlasting as a gift?  It's one or the other;  death and blood for remission of sins or life that death can't touch.  There is no possible admixture of the two.   
  It is totally against the flesh to be saved without your having any hand in the matter.  The flesh both requires and demands -and demands most loudly and continually- that you have something, anything, to do with your salvation.  Surely there is something I must do, surely there is something I can do, surely there is something required of me that will complete the work of Christ or at least make the work of Christ more sure.  Surely there is something I can do that will cause God to favor me.  Surely I can earn through my own efforts merit with God.  Pray.  Give money.  Witness.  Fast.  Pray more.  Read my Bible every day.  Fast more often.  Pray even more.  Fast for longer periods.  Give more money.  Go to church every time the doors are opened.  Have more faith.  Surely the wrath of God will be assuaged, surely I will earn favor with God if I do these things and more and do them more often and with greater fervor.     
  There is one way out of that vicious rat-race, His name is Jesus Christ, and there is no other way.   
 
  IF you must do anything to be saved (including generate faith) or to -keep- your salvation then you are an enemy of the cross of Christ. 

 
  Galatians 3:13  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
  Hebrews 9:22  And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
  Ephesians 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

  finney

[Sapphire W34P0N]

Once Saved Always Saved???

What difference does it make?

[Brother Jerry]

I am almost speechless there

The discussion is if you are saved are you saved forever or can you at some time loose your salvation?  And you ask what difference does it make?

Well to me what you believe does not make any difference to me, I know that I am a child of God and no matter what I am counted as a saint.  I would have to say though that if you think that you can lose your salvation then you may not have been saved to begin with and that does matter to me.

[Jon-Marc]

Those who believe they can lost their salvation apparently believe that God only gave them temporary life, but my God gave me ETERNAL life! So how long is eternity? "Eternal" life until you sin again (more than likely the same day you get saved) is NOT eternal life. Eternal mean FOREVER.

[Sapphire W34P0N]

I am almost speechless there

The discussion is if you are saved are you saved forever or can you at some time loose your salvation?  And you ask what difference does it make?

Well to me what you believe does not make any difference to me, I know that I am a child of God and no matter what I am counted as a saint.  I would have to say though that if you think that you can lose your salvation then you may not have been saved to begin with and that does matter to me.

Allow me to restate my meaning, then.

If you believe that once you are saved, you are always saved, are you going to live any differently? Is there any purpose at all behind trying to prove one side or the other?

[Soldier4Christ]

Hi Sapphire,

It's great to see you here again.

This is an important subject as it does pertain to a persons salvation. There is nothing more important than ones salvation in and through Jesus Christ. We should not decry the importance of anything that pertains to salvation.

The most important questions that come up because of this subject is "Am I saved?", "How can I know that I am saved?", "Do I lose my Salvation because I slip up and commit a sin?", "Do I have to perform certain "works" to maintain my salvation?". These are just a few of the questions that fall into this subject and ones that a person truly has the need to have answered.

[Sapphire W34P0N]

Hi Sapphire,

It's great to see you here again.

This is an important subject as it does pertain to a persons salvation. There is nothing more important than ones salvation in and through Jesus Christ. We should not decry the importance of anything that pertains to salvation.

The most important questions that come up because of this subject is "Am I saved?", "How can I know that I am saved?", "Do I lose my Salvation because I slip up and commit a sin?", "Do I have to perform certain "works" to maintain my salvation?". These are just a few of the questions that fall into this subject and ones that a person truly has the need to have answered.

I think you're still not understanding what I'm getting at.

We should always live as if once we are saved, we are NOT always saved. I hate this topic because it generates so much debate, but everyone always misses the point completely. Whether or not we are always saved isn't important. If it becomes important, then there's generally a problem because we worry about whether or not the things we do will "un-save" us. I know they won't, you know they won't, we are saved by faith, not good works, etc. You don't need to explain that to me, it's irrelevant.

My point is that we should always live as if once we are saved, we CAN fall from grace. It doesn't matter whether or not you believe that can happen. Living that way helps avoid complacency and stagnation. Stop fighting about the details. You're missing the bigger picture.

[Soldier4Christ]

I do understand what you are saying and I do agree that we should do all we can to live that sort of life. It is also important to understand what the Bible says on this subject because there are those that try and try to avoid or overcome a specific sin. It sometimes can be a major struggle before they realize just how to give that sin over to God's hands and to let Him take care of it. Because of such teachings that you can lose your salvation and the misunderstanding of the verse that says there is no more sacrifice if we sin.

It is the details that are important. Did you ever think that perhaps it is you that are missing the bigger picture? I for one will continue to teach and preach the word of God. That is not arguing, it is teaching His word so that all may understand the wonderful saving grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[nChrist]

Hello Sapphire,

I think that I understand what you're saying, but there's even a BIGGER PICTURE that's on the other side of the coin.

I think that Christians are weak until they find out that there are unquestioned Promises of GOD, who they are made to, and what they mean. Doubt can mean more than just complacency. In fact, doubt can many times completely defeat a Christian in the hard times. For this reason, doubt is a friend of the devil. For the purposes of the devil, it's always good to get man to question the Promises of GOD for the same reason it's good to get man to question the ABSOLUTE AND UNQUESTIONED TRUTH OF ANY PART OF THE HOLY BIBLE. As an example, it's a huge victory for the devil to get Christians to doubt GOD'S Account of HIS CREATION in Genesis. It's actually a huge victory for the devil to cause anyone to doubt any portion of the HOLY BIBLE because of what it leads to. It leads to: IF ANY PORTION IS IN DOUBT - IT'S ALL IN DOUBT.

NOW, let's look at that other side of the coin. Some of the Promises of GOD cause problems because some people don't understand WHO those Promises were made to. The biggest example is Israel as contrasted with the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. These two entities are different, and the Promises are different. GOD took extra care in getting both entities to understand HIS PROMISES for a reason. The DOUBT that can be caused is actually DOUBT in GOD. DOUBT in man doesn't make any difference at all, but DOUBT IN GOD can cause all kinds of problems that the devil loves. DOUBT IN GOD is NO PORTION of a Strong Christian's Life. DOUBT IN THE HOLY BIBLE IS NO PORTION of a Strong Christian's life. The devil doesn't like Strong Christians because their witness is SURE. In fact, there are many things about Strong Christians that the devil doesn't like. The devil finds them much more difficult to manipulate and use for his purposes. As a contrast, the devil can easily use and manipulate weak Christians because they are much easier for the devil to defeat. Weak and defeated Christians don't pose much of an adversary for the devil. If the Christian is weak and defeated enough, he or she can actually be an ally of the devil and used as an example for the lost. Strong and Victorious Christians are used as an example for GOD. In fact, GOD may keep using this Strong and Victorious Christian as an example long after they have physically died and gone HOME.

As an end result, Christians should know what the PROMISES OF GOD are and who they are made to. DOUBT is a bad thing that needs to be conquered. Every Christian should have a desire to become STRONG IN CHRIST and serve GOD however GOD Wills. We can look through the BIBLE and see the problems that DOUBT caused. SO, DOUBT is an enemy of GOD and not part of HIS Plan. Think about this in connection to JESUS CHRIST and the CROSS for the ultimate example. MAN WAS SAVED BY FAITH THROUGH GRACE PRIOR TO THE CROSS, SO WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE CROSS?

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 1:18-23 NASB I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

[David_james]

Here is a video about salvation http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=75eacff567a845b3d346

[Soldier4Christ]

An excellent video with a most beautiful and fact filled message.