Once Saved Always Saved???

[saved_by_grace]

I was raised Baptist and taught once saved always saved.  This is also the teaching in the Alliance and Evangelical Free churches that I have attended.  If this teaching is true, they why does Hebrews 6:4-6 say what it does?

Hebrews 6:4-6 (New International Version)

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

[Shammu]

No once saved always saved isn't true.  One who continues in his sin without repentance isn't, saved.  This teaching is a dangerous distortion, of Christianity.

[Brother Jerry]

First and foremost one must take a look at the context of the verse or verses that we are looking at.

You must also look at the verse in light of other verses in the Bible.  We study it by taking the more complex verses and using the more simple verse to help illuminate sections of confusion.  And when Jesus himself uses words like eternal, never, forever, as just a few to explain salvation then we also know it is once save always saved.  Add that to the verses that Paul speaks of and many others that describe a once saved always saved scenario and the verses in question cannot contradict them.

Who was the verse written too?  Hebrews/Jews

Now since we know that this verse cannot contradict the simpler and more strait forward verses in the Bible and we also know who this was written too, we have to take a look at how it would apply to whom it was written too.

Now to this day the Jews are awaiting their Messiah...their savior.  They do not believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah sent by God.  Now no one can deny that the Jews were once the enlightened people of God.  They were the ones who received the heavenly blessings of God.  They had shared in the Holy Spirit and tasted the goodness of the "word of God".  Now note that it does say "word of God" this helps us know exactly who it is that these verses are written too.  Because who had the "word of God" at this time?  The Jews did.  The had the OT.

"if they fall away".  This is the phrase that gets the lost salvation people their bullets.  But again look at in the context of the verses.  We are talking about a people who did have the favor of God.  What would it mean for the Jews of that time to fall away?  The nation of Isreal did not accept Jesus as the Messiah...they turned their back upon God at that moment.  They fell away.  Now in the eyes of the nation of Isreal what would it take to get them back?  In their eyes it would be the Messiah to come...that is what they are waiting on.  They know there is to be a Messiah.  But as mentioned they do not believe that Jesus was that Messiah.  So what would it take to get them to come back into repentance?  It would take the coming of the Messiah...and that has already happened...that would take Christ coming back again and being crucified all over again.

Once saved...once crucified...always saved

[Rookieupgrade1]

No once saved always saved isn't true.  One who continues in his sin without repentance isn't, saved.  This teaching is a dangerous distortion, of Christianity.

I have to agree and disagree

you are right brother......one who continues in sin was never really saved at all. I was one of them.

One who is saved can not be unsaved, because they are a new creation in God and will seek His will in all things......it is a true transformation and therefore, is irreversable.

If they appear to "lose" thier relationship with God......they never really had one to begin with, though the seeds have been planted and with love and prayer, may still grow.

The key here is that we can not know their heart as we all know. Only God can so ultimatly.....God will separate the sheep from the goats.

God Bless

[lightninboy]

Once saved is always saved.

http://faithalone.org/news/y1992/92july3.html
http://faithalone.org/news/y1992/92sep3.html

[willychuck]

Hi saved by grace,

I agree that once saved, always saved.  I've search this quest out for myself several years.  There are much wiser men then I on both side of the coin.  I truely hope you find peace in the answer you settle with.  Your peace is at stake, not your salvation.  No man can see into the heart of another to know beyond a doubt if they posess a saving faith or not.  NO MAN!  It's God's realm.  Have fun studying. 

Peace to you,
your brother in Christ,
Bill

[Len]

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosever believeth in Him should not perish but HAVE everlasting (eternal) life."

When you believe in Christ, you HAVE eternal life.

If you have something "eternal" but lose it, it was not very "eternal" was it?

[willychuck]

Amen!  Len.   

I didn't always believe that way though.  It made for quite a roller coaster ride in my stumbly walk with Christ.  I was up and down depending on how I performed my daily activies.  Whether I was kind enough, or if I blew it big time.  Then I wondered if I was saved at all.     I am so, so grateful to Him for opening up my eyes and heart to His. He will never, I must repeat, NEVER leave me or forsake me.  He has never broke His word.  Never. 

your brother in love, in Christ,

Bill

[Jemidon2004]

IF saved always saved should be the real saying. In Hebrews the author uses what are the eequivalent to a hypothetical situation in Hebrews 6:4-6. I think i have a thread running somewhere around here talkign about Hebrews 6:4-6, not sure, but to summerize. Whoever said that the author was writing to the Hebrews was right. However what many people forget is that there is what is called an immediate audience and a universal audience. When interpreting scripture we must keep in mind that those things written to an immediate audience were written specifically for an immediate audience, however, as a universal audience, we have to take that truth and apply it to our lives as well. Hence Hebrews. Looking at the language in Hebrews, the author ingeniusly places words in a pretty clear order.

4For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6if they then fall away, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

The author says "It is impossible to restore again to repentance to those who have once been enlightened" the word enlightened means "to be made brighter" "to be allowed to see" As it says that it's impossible that if you fall away that there's no coming back pretty much because we are "crucifying once again the Son of God and holding Him up to contempt"  basically saying when a person falls away, there is no coming back because they would be crucifying Christ all over again which has already been done once. Why would we need to do it again? One time is all we need to save us. Not save over and over. Granted i need saving from my wife when she comes after me with a broom from time to time, but it's not the same thing lol. Our salvation is final once we accept our Lord's death in atonement for our sin and we are reconciled, justified, redeemed, and sanctified (which the sanctification process of our souls is over with, however the sanctification process of our flesh continues until we're given a glorified body) So yea...i'd say that IF we're truely saved, we're not going to want to do anything to screw up that "enlightenment, sharing of the Holy Spirit, and spiritual gifts that God gives through manifestation of the Holy Spirit."  I've screwed up alot in my life. And i've fallen back on my back even recently. And it's a struggle to get back up, but with GOD"S help I can get through my day. Even if it's just a little prayer that I mutter as I'm getting out of the bed, I know God is with me and I know God hears me and my heart. Now am I lost because I've "backslid". NO. I know that my God still loves me no matter what and He isn't going to give me up. But as Romans says "Let every man be persuaded in his own mind" I know what my God has given me and I know where I stand...even sometimes when I begin to doubt where I stand (due to growing up and living in the real world...i'm 19 and married so i'm learning what the real world is all about lol) Anyways, that's just my thoughts...my wife's at work so I get out of chores until she gets home this evening lol. Think on what i've said, take it to heart if you like, do with it what you wish, but it's out there for all to see. God Bless

Coram Deo,
Joshua

[Satisfied MInd]

1 John 1:6-10 ASV
(6)  If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
(7)  but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
(  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(9)  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(10)  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


We must remember that we are to "walk in the light"  It is not enough to say "I believe"  and then be done with it.  We must continue to walk in the light.  When we do stumble and sin, as all have and do, we need to repent and ask for forgivenness as noted above in verse 9.  We must be obedient! 

1 John 2:1-5 ASV
(1)  My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
(2)  and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.
(3)  And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(4)  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
(5)  but whoso keepeth his word, in him verily hath the love of God been perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him:

[Jemidon2004]

Amen...christianity without practicallity is dead as i like to say it. If we don't apply God's truths to our daily lives, we continue walking in darkness...thus against what God says in His holy Word.

Joshua

[Satisfied MInd]

It is also our responsibility as Chrsitians to help restore one who has fallen away.

Galatians 6:1 ASV
(1)  Brethren, even if a man be overtaken in any trespass, ye who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; looking to thyself, lest thou also be tempted.



James 5:19-20 ASV
(19)  My brethren, if any among you err from the truth, and one convert him;
(20)  let him know, that he who converteth a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.

[Len]

Good works (obedience, walking in the light, or whatever term you use for what we do to please Him, to be centered in His will) are a result of salvation...not a cause. Ephesians 2:8,9 and other Scripture make that clear. Jesus saves us all by Himself without our help or He does not save us at all. Otherwise He would not have said as His last words on Calvary, "It is finished".

Anyone who does not think salvation was finished upon the death of Christ calls Christ a liar. If we can be saved by our good works, Christ died in vain. He could then have come , showed us and told us how we should live and ascended right back to Heaven and could have skipped the cross. But He did not. He came, He sufferd, He died, He was buried that we might be saved and He was resurrected on the third day according to the Scriptures proving Himself to be God.

Our response to that incredible sacrifice should be one of complete and faithful submission to His will. But as long as we are in this sinful body, we will fail, some more miserably than others. Time in the Word and in prayer seem to help us mature. And our response to various issues...temptaion, His call on our lives, our evagelistic activity, obedience, etc....are what will determine the degree of our Heavenly reward. Some believers will have great reward, others not so great. But all believers, regardless of our lives on earth, will all be citizens of Paradise. (Remember the thief on the cross?)

[willychuck]

Good works (obedience, walking in the light, or whatever term you use for what we do to please Him, to be centered in His will) are a result of salvation...not a cause. Ephesians 2:8,9 and other Scripture make that clear. Jesus saves us all by Himself without our help or He does not save us at all. Otherwise He would not have said as His last words on Calvary, "It is finished".

Anyone who does not think salvation was finished upon the death of Christ calls Christ a liar. If we can be saved by our good works, Christ died in vain. He could then have come , showed us and told us how we should live and ascended right back to Heaven and could have skipped the cross. But He did not. He came, He sufferd, He died, He was buried that we might be saved and He was resurrected on the third day according to the Scriptures proving Himself to be God.

Our response to that incredible sacrifice should be one of complete and faithful submission to His will. But as long as we are in this sinful body, we will fail, some more miserably than others. Time in the Word and in prayer seem to help us mature. And our response to various issues...temptaion, His call on our lives, our evagelistic activity, obedience, etc....are what will determine the degree of our Heavenly reward. Some believers will have great reward, others not so great. But all believers, regardless of our lives on earth, will all be citizens of Paradise. (Remember the thief on the cross?)

Absolutely Len!!!      

It's not by works of anykind.  And I don't keep my salvation by my works either.  And my righteousness is filthy rags.  But Christ's righteousness, imparted to me, by His grace, through faith in Him, well, eternal life, eternally, secured by Him.  Sealed by His Spirit till the day I leave this place and see Him face to face.            

In this I rest, He-did-it-all.  Start to "finish".  I never sought Him, He sought me.  So to speak.   Nothing added, nothing taken away.     I can never lose my salvation.     No one and nothing can take me out of my Father's hand.  It's His grace upon me.  His call upon me.  His power upon me.  I'm His workmanship.  Created in Christ Jesus to do good works.  No wonder Paul said; 

"Who shall seperate us from the love of Christ?  Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?  As it is written:  "For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."  Yet in all these thing we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.  For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angles nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."  Romans 8:35-39

My parents will always be my parents.  I will always be their son.  Can't be undone.  God will always be my Father, my Abba Father.  And I will always be His son.  It's eternal.                

love, your brother in Christ,
Bill
     

 

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

I'll simply say thanks for GOD'S unspeakable GIFT that I didn't deserve and could never earn - JESUS CHRIST - my Lord and Saviour forever!

Salvation is NOT on the installment plan. JESUS CHRIST finished the work on the Cross, and there is nothing I can add to HIS PERFECT and completed work.

At the moment of accepting JESUS CHRIST as my Lord and Saviour, many beautiful and precious things happened that involve the promises of GOD:

1 - I was baptized by the Holy Spirit of GOD, and the Holy Spirit of GOD entered my heart for eternity.

2 - My heart was sealed WITH the Holy Spirit of GOD as a pledge of the eternal promises of GOD. NO power in the universe can break the SEAL of the Holy Spirit of GOD.

3 - I became a purchased possession of JESUS CHRIST. GOD the FATHER gave me to JESUS CHRIST, and NO power can pluck me out of HIS Mighty Hands.

4 - I was translated into the Kingdom of GOD'S Dear Son for eternity.

5 - I became a member of a church not made with human hands, the ETERNAL CHURCH which is the BODY OF CHRIST. My membership is based upon what JESUS CHRIST did on the Cross.

6 - GOD the FATHER sees me in and through JESUS CHRIST forever. GOD the FATHER sees the Righteousness of JESUS CHRIST - not my righteousness, primarily because I don't have any righteousness, nor will I ever obtain any righteousness of my own. My righteousness is ONLY in JESUS CHRIST.

7 - The Law of Faith in JESUS CHRIST has set me free from the curse of sin and death.

8 - I have been forgiven of all my sins because of the PERFECT SACRIFICE of JESUS CHRIST on the Cross. HIS BLOOD has washed my sins away.

9 - ONLY JESUS CHRIST makes me fit to obtain the inheritance of the Saints in LIGHT. The LIGHT is JESUS CHRIST, my Lord and Saviour forever.

10 - I have received the Promises of ALMIGHTY GOD and have ETERNAL LIFE in JESUS CHRIST. ALMIGHTY GOD ALWAYS KEEPS HIS PROMISES.

Brothers and Sisters, there are many other things that are usually part of this discussion. I will simply say that I believe all of the above is set in concrete and involves the Promises of ALMIGHTY GOD.

I want to do good works for the LORD because I love HIM and appreciate everything HE has done for me. My good works are only considered good works if I do them ONLY because I love HIM. If I do good works because I want recognition or do them as some sort of payment, those good works will be burned up and worthless. I can't pay for anything because the PERFECT PRICE has already been PAID IN FULL BY JESUS CHRIST ON THE CROSS! It is an insult to GOD to think that I have anything worthy to be added to the PERFECT and COMPLETED work of JESUS CHRIST.

In short and in conclusion, I am saved and belong to JESUS CHRIST forever. I already have the PROMISES of ALMIGHTY GOD HIMSELF, and it is DEFINITELY FINISHED! All I can do is give thanks, praise HIM, worship HIM, and know that I am NOT my own, rather I am a purchased possession of JESUS CHRIST. I have been delivered to HIM and NO power can take me away from HIM!

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever!

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 1:1-4 NASB  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

John 11:25 NASB  Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

John 14:6-7 NASB  Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."

Galatians 2:20 NASB  "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

1 John 1:1-4 NASB  What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life -- and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us -- what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ. These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.