Once Saved Always Saved???

[Soldier4Christ]

ARE YOU SAYING THAT ONCE YOU EXCEPT CHRIST AS YOU SAVIOR YOU ARE SAVED NO MATTER WHAT EVEN IF YOU STILL SIN?

Hello child_of_light,

Welcome to Christians Unite forums.

The answer to that question is yes but first let me explain that this is not talking about willful, "I'm gonna do it no matter what" type of sinning. A born again Christian will not willfully sin without abandon nor without conviction of any sin. A person that has truthfully accepted Christ as their Saviour will have the desire to please Him in all that they do and say. As scripture says "the flesh is weak." We are also told that no man is without sin. If we do slip up and sin it does not mean that we lose our salvation. Jesus tells us that nothing can take us out of the hands of the Father.

[David_james]

Amen Pastor Roger!

[child_of_light]

I have read that once you are born of god you cannot sin.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:26-27
If we come to christ and really be born of god then we confess our sins, because we have the knowledge to know what the sin is that we have repented from. 

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
 3 , that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life
Romans 6:1-4

And by saying this grace only covers sin if we are dead in our sins. And if be dead from sin how can we live in sin anymore.


12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Romans 6:12-13
If we walk in the spirit and not in the flesh then sin will not rule us.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:17

 I read if we are truly born of god we cannot sin.

Now Iam not trying to start a fight and be a trouble maker. I know all have sinned and come short, and if we say we have not sinned then we deceive ourselves. What I am saying is that Christ's blood is covering for our sins, and made a way for us to repent from our sins but not to remain in sin.

[Elijah_101]

Lets Read the Whole matter

We know For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8-9

Now, Jesus Died for Me You and the Whole World, There is No Work we can do, we cannot Forgive our Own Sins,

And by this, We Come to Jesus by Faith, And We Repent and Sin no more John 8:11 and by this we are Forgiven and we are Under Grace

(by grace ye are saved;) Eph 2:5

But when you Remain in Your Sins, you are NOT under Grace,

you are Still In your Sins , As it is Written Grace and Sin Does not Abound Romans 6:1

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? GOD ForBid Romans 6:1

When we Come Too Jesus, Repent of all of our Sinful Works of the Flesh,

That ye present your bodies a living sacrifice , holy, acceptable unto God,

And be not conformed to this world:

but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,

that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:1-2

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man,

which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Ephesians 4:22

Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 1 Peter 1:16

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. let no man deceive you,

We know that if we are Righteous as God is Righteous we cannot Sin, God is no Sinner, 1 John 2:29 1 John 3:7
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: ,

1 John 2:29 - we cannot Sin ,is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. (Gal 2:17) (1 Jn 3:7)

Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
By This We Repent and Sin no more, For it is Written

When Jesus Forgave Sins, Jesus Told them Go and Sin no more John 8:11 ,

When Jesus healed People, Jesus Said thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. John 5:14

GOD Said

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine:

the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezek 18:4

But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed , and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

All his transgressions that he hath committed,

they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. Ezek 18:21-

When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness[/b], and commit iniquity
and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die:

because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered ; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Ezek 3:20

Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man

that the righteous sin not , and he doth not sin,

he shall surely live , because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul. Ezek 3:21

By This We Repent and Sin no more, For it is Written , When Jesus Forgave Sins, Jesus Told them Go and Sin no more John 8:11 , And When Jesus healed People, Jesus Said thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. John 5:14

[child_of_light]

Elijah101
That is how I see it also, If be a new creature of god, then the old man sin is dead and buried, then we are born into a new creature that does not sin.
By faith we can do this. This is our hope to become a new creature. And Christ is the door way.

[Soldier4Christ]

Unfortunately there are many that attempt to put us back under the law by adding to or twisting scripture in such a manner as to bring about that understanding. Good works are not a requirement to gain salvation nor are they a requirement to maintain salvation. Good works are evidence (fruit thereof) of salvation not a requirement to maintain it. Any works that we may do on our own for our own personal gain are as nothing. It is all for Him and by Him.


Rom 6:22  But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

[child_of_light]

Sure I understand that we can not do any work to save ourselves, we cant die for ourselves. Christ died once for our sin and threw his work we can be saved. I disagree that we can still sin if we are truly saved by grace. I believe grace saves us once we have repented from sin.

How does a person twist the scripture's around to fit there own believes?

The bible tells us the truth and the truth is you cannot sin if you are born of god. 

The law is for sinners and if you don't sin your not under the law.

I just read the bible and the bible said if I am saved by grace I cannot sin. Now "man" tells me I can.

I will believe Gods word before man's.

Now I am open to discussion on this matter. If you will use the bible and prove that you can sin and be born of god.

[Soldier4Christ]

Are you perfect, without sin?

1Jn 1:8  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Note that John says "We" here. He included himself, a born again Christian, an Apostle of Jesus Christ.

Gal 6:3  For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

Isa 64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

The law is for sinners and if you don't sin your not under the law.

It is not "if you don't sin" that removes us from the law. It is the shed blood of Jesus Christ through the grace of God, that covers our sin.

Rom 5:9  Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Eph 1:7  In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

[Brother Jerry]

Amen Roger.

Child of Light.  You would be very boastful to try and say that as a Christian you do not sin.  As a saved person have you ever driven over the speed limit?  Have you ever rolled through a stop sign?  Breaking the laws of the land is considered a sin. 

There was only one man who ever walked the earth that is without sin, and that was the God-Man of Christ.  When Paul wrote that "all have sinned" it means all and not just a few, or most.  Paul just as John did, included himself in the classification of sinner.  I turned my soul over to God 22+ years ago.  For 22+ years my soul's destiny has been to go to heaven.  But I can tell you right now that I have sinned.  I went through a time of drinking, womanizing, gambling, and almost anything else I could think of to have fun and not glorify God.  But I knew my soul was secure.  But Satan took me and was using me to be a terrible witness for God. 

No I have to say that I still sin.  I try very hard not too, and when I do I feel terrible about it when I realize it.  However I know that God knows my heart and my heart is good.  And He does forgive. 

[Allinall]

Hello Allinall,

Brother Kevin, it's nice to see you again, and I hope this means that you will be visiting more often again. We do miss you and others. I know exactly what you mean in your post. Because I do, I consider Hebrews to be a MOST beautiful book and worthy of considerable study. Putting it into historical and Biblical context makes Hebrews a book that explains many mysteries. Hebrews is involved in many controversies that men have, but it can be the most beautiful and worthwhile Bible Study in the Bible.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 25:8  He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

Amen Brother Tom!  Hebrews is a very sobering book.  Our Pastor is currently preaching through it on Sunday Mornings.  Feel free to listen in...

http://www.grbible.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=index&catid=&topic=9

[Allinall]

Hello Kintups!

WELCOME!

I sincerely hope that you enjoy Christians Unite, and I look forward to having fellowship with you.

I understand your views, but I don't share them. This doesn't mean that we can't have sweet fellowship - we can! I would simply ask you to take another look at many of the Scriptures you are concentrating on and look at them with some additional thoughts. As an example, some of the Scriptures you are looking at pertain to the Tribulation Period, not this current Age of Grace. There is also considerable confusion between what was taught and believed by Jews, and the differences in teaching after JESUS CHRIST died on the CROSS for our sins.

I firmly believe there are many things that Christians can lose, but Salvation isn't one of them in my opinion. We can lose REWARDS that are over and beyond Salvation. Rewards are for Eternity, but many Christians don't study much about Rewards. To say that a Christian has lost Rewards or a CROWN is not the same thing as saying that a Christian has lost Salvation. The two are separate and distinct, but only a Christian can receive REWARDS. Please notice that the Bible mentions many times, "That your joy might be more full." What Christians do or don't do within the Will of GOD for us definitely impacts our JOY in this short life. The same is true for the quality of our Daily Fellowship with GOD. Christians do suffer loss when they don't obey GOD'S Will, but the loss isn't Salvation. The Apostle Paul explained this the best. Paul wanted to please GOD, regardless of the cost, and Paul showed tremendous determination in finishing what he called the race, the course, and the fight. Paul wanted to hear from GOD in the ETERNAL LIFE to come, "Well done, good and faithful servant." He wanted to hear this from GOD, and Paul was willing to die to hear this. In fact, Paul was martyred and was killed by men because of his obstinate STAND FOR CHRIST that he refused to compromise.

These things are not required for Salvation, but they are the keys for understanding portions of Scripture that appear to contradict each other. There is no contradiction in Scripture.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 4:1-18 NASB  Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart,  2  but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.  3  And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,  4  in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.  5  For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake.  6  For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.  7  But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves;  8  we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing;  9  persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;  10  always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.  11  For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.  12  So death works in us, but life in you.  13  But having the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I BELIEVED, THEREFORE I SPOKE," we also believe, therefore we also speak,  14  knowing that He who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and will present us with you.  15  For all things are for your sakes, so that the grace which is spreading to more and more people may cause the giving of thanks to abound to the glory of God.  16  Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.  17  For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison,  18  while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

AMEN!!

[Allinall]

ARE YOU SAYING THAT ONCE YOU EXCEPT CHRIST AS YOU SAVIOR YOU ARE SAVED NO MATTER WHAT EVEN IF YOU STILL SIN?

Yup!  Beware, however that you "...make your calling and election sure" as Paul warns.  Security is not a license to sin.  If we treat it as such, we must look to our faith and see if it is truly real faith.  "We are saved by faith alone, but not by a faith that stands alone."  True believers have that faith.  They may not consistantly walk by that faith, and may put too much confidence in sight.  But it is God Who works in us the work He began in us.  Never rely on self, but never be idle in any area of obedience.   

[Shammu]

Yup!  Beware, however that you "...make your calling and election sure" as Paul warns.  Security is not a license to sin.  If we treat it as such, we must look to our faith and see if it is truly real faith.  "We are saved by faith alone, but not by a faith that stands alone."  True believers have that faith.  They may not consistantly walk by that faith, and may put too much confidence in sight.  But it is God Who works in us the work He began in us.  Never rely on self, but never be idle in any area of obedience.  

AMEN!!

Very well said in layman terms,  brother.

[Soldier4Christ]

Yup!  Beware, however that you "...make your calling and election sure" as Paul warns.  Security is not a license to sin.  If we treat it as such, we must look to our faith and see if it is truly real faith.  "We are saved by faith alone, but not by a faith that stands alone."  True believers have that faith.  They may not consistantly walk by that faith, and may put too much confidence in sight.  But it is God Who works in us the work He began in us.  Never rely on self, but never be idle in any area of obedience.   

Another Amen to that.

[Allinall]

AMEN!!

Very well said in layman terms,  brother.

Thanks Brother!  How you been?