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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
284869 Posts in 27555 Topics by 3790 Members
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| | |-+  Am I Going to Heaven ?
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Question: Pick from the list below what you think is necessary to get you to heaven.
 Obeying God's law and commandments - 28 (52.8%)
Doing your best - 7 (13.2%)
Living a good life - 2 (3.8%)
Good works - 3 (5.7%)
Tithing, or giving money to the church - 1 (1.9%)
Church membership or attendance - 1 (1.9%)
Water baptism - 7 (13.2%)
Holy communion - 4 (7.5%)
Total Voters: 43

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Author Topic: Am I Going to Heaven ?  (Read 107969 times)
Brother Love
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« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2003, 05:22:43 AM »

"For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23).  Do we receive a gift and then try to work for it to keep it?

Brother Love Smiley
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THINGS THAT DIFFER By C.R. Stam
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Brother Love
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« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2003, 06:05:00 AM »

The Bible says we are not capable of doing enough good to save ourselves. Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come SHORT of the glory of God;

The Bible says the Lord Jesus Christ paid for all our sins. He did not miss any of them, now or in the future.

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you ALL trespasses;

The Bible says he paid enough. Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL.

I believe the Bible

Brother Love Smiley
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THINGS THAT DIFFER By C.R. Stam
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http://www.geocities.com/protestantscot/ttd/ttd_chap1.html

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Saved_4ever
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« Reply #62 on: June 27, 2003, 08:06:16 AM »

AMEN Brother Love AMEN!!

As for your questions SOA, it seems Petro is dealing with you well so I will wait until it's done before I add anything to answering your questions.  I can see you are reading the bible, but your aren't reading it.  You seem to be as confused by what Jesus said to the rich man as many.  The rich man tried to justify himself by HIS works claiming to be righteous yet his god was his money and not Almightly God.  That is the point don't get so caught up in it.
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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2003, 02:12:21 PM »

"For I am PERSUADED, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD"4 (Rom. 8:38, 39).

Brother Love Smiley

The Bible says we are not capable of doing enough good to save ourselves. Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come SHORT of the glory of God;

The Bible says the Lord Jesus Christ paid for all our sins. He did not miss any of them, now or in the future.

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you ALL trespasses;

The Bible says he paid enough. Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL.

I believe the Bible

Brother Love  
Posted by: Brother Love  Posted on: Today at 05:22:43am  
"For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23).  Do we receive a gift and then try to work for it to keep it?

Brother Love  
Posted by: Brother Love  Posted on: Today at 04:52:33am  
"...Even so by the righteousness of one THE FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous" (Rom. 5:18-19).

Brother Love  
Posted by: Brother Love  Posted on: Today at 04:48:32am  
"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be SAVED BY HIS LIFE" (Rom. 5:10).

Brother Love  

AAAAAAAAAAAAMEN To All Of Your Above posts Brother Love Grin
« Last Edit: June 27, 2003, 02:13:36 PM by Ambassador4Christ » Logged



Are You GOING TO HEAVEN?

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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2003, 06:15:17 PM »

A Christian once remarked: "Before I learned the truth of my eternal security, I held on to Christ with one hand and tried to serve Him with the other; but when I realized that both Christ's arms were around me, and I could never be lost, it left both my hands free to serve Him!" Grin
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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #65 on: June 27, 2003, 06:25:47 PM »

Two things are very important

To know Jesus Christ as your Saviour so as to be sure right now of your eternal destiny.

To know what is the right truth for the believer today so you can walk in its fullness.

 Grin
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Galatians 4:16   Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
SonofAslan
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« Reply #66 on: June 27, 2003, 06:49:32 PM »

Saved, add away. I can handle more than one conversation at a time if need be. Smiley

And as to your comment, quite the contrary. I have read the Bible THOROUGHLY. I have spent well over 25 years reading the Bible. And very early on in this process, I chose to consciously reject all commentary on Scripture reading nothing but Scripture itself. I read Scripture without any study notes, commentary, without even any cross references. I wanted nothing of men to cloud my reading. I wanted ONLY what Scripture had to say. And I read it that way for many years until I had a good handle on it. Then I started comparing commentaries and study notes.

 The problem is, it seems to me, you read part of it and ignore the rest. Or you read part of it and decide that one part is more important than another part. You have decided that the parts that say salvation is a gift are more important than the parts that say salvation is something we must struggle for. That, and what you have been taught, have clouded your mind so you can’t see that all of Scripture teaches the truth equally. You can’t subordinate one part of Scripture to another. One must read all of Scripture together, and then by taking all the pieces and putting them together can one see the entire picture. This has caused you to be unable to see that while works are required, they do not save us. This seems like a paradox to you when it shouldn't be. It is nothing but what Scripture say throughout.

I do not mean to offend, and I hope I don't. If I do, I beg your forgiveness. But it seems to me that you have had your reading of Scripture tainted by the Protestant theology you have been taught. If you ignore all teaching of men, come to Scripture with a pure heart and a blank mind, and with much prayer for the Holy Spirit to guide into all truth, as Christ promised He will, then Scripture opens up like a flower. That you are tainted by what you have been taught is reflected in your comments on the rich man. You have added to Scripture what isn't there. Here, let me explain.

Nothing in the story of the rich man indicates that he was seeking to be justified by his deeds. He asked no question that everyone who has ever wanted to convert hasn’t asked. He came to Jesus and said, “What must I do to inherit eternal life?”

There is no ulterior motive here. Nothing to indicate that he is seeking to justify himself before God. He asks a very straightforward question. Nothing in the passage indicates anything else. However, Jesus immediate response does indicate one critical factor which is ultimately the indicator as to why the man turned away saddened. He had no faith. The man came to Jesus and said, “Good teacher…” And Jesus responded, “Why do you call me good? None is good but God.”

Now how are we to understand this? We can’t ignore it, but we have multitudes of other passages that show us that Jesus not only is good, but is God. In fact, this passage indicates that if Jesus IS good, then He IS God. Let’s look at the passage carefully. Notice Jesus doesn’t DENY that He is good, but He merely asks the man why he called Him good. This, especially when read with the rest of Scripture, shows that Jesus is not denying His divinity, but rather remarking on the man’s lack of faith. The man does not believe in Christ. Jesus knows the hearts of men, as we are told in numerous other passages, and He also knows this man’s heart, and He sees that the man called Him “good” teacher not in faith, but in an attempt to “butter Him up”, as we say.  So Jesus gives the man a rather summary answer to the question, wishing to test the man. Jesus says, “You know the commandments. Keep them.”Then the man asks, “Which ones?” And Jesus lists them (at least the 6 that deal with the relationship between men ; significantly, Jesus left out the ones that deal with man’s relationship with God). But then we see something rather remarkable from the man. If, as you claim, he was attempting to justify himself according to his deeds before God, Jesus had given him a way out. The man could have said to himself, “Whew. I’m ok then. I have been doing that, and Jesus just told me that’s all I need to do. I’m in the clear. HA HA I’m going to heaven!” But no. The man was at least honest with himself. He knew that wasn’t enough. He had done that since his youth, and he knew from personal experience that something was still lacking. And so the man replies to Jesus, seeking more, “But I have kept these since my youth.” And here is where Jesus gives him the real answer to his question. The prior stuff was fluff simply to test the man. Jesus looked at the man and loved him (this is given to us in Mark’s account). And that He loved the man shows that what He says next is the true answer. He tells the man, “To be perfect, go sell all you have and come follow me.” THAT is what we ALL must do to be saved. THAT is the REAL answer to the man’s question. We must give up everything. Forsake all, and follow Jesus. If we aren’t willing to do that, we will never enter the Kingdom of God. THAT is the narrow way. And the man turned away saddened. Have I misinterpreted the text? I believe not, because Jesus’ next statement shows that the man has just rejected salvation. Jesus turned to His disciples and said, “How hard it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of heaven.”

The reason I made no distinction in my initial citation of this passage between Jesus telling the man to obey the commandments and telling him to forsake all and follow Him is because they are basically the same thing (after all, Jesus didn't LIE to the man the first time, did He?). The only difference is that the former (i.e. the list of commandments) lists the external manifestations of the latter’s (i.e. forsaking all and following Christ) inner reality. In Aristotelian metaphysical terms, the “forsaking all and following Christ” would be the essence of what one must do to be saved, while the list of commandments would be the accidents. Do you know Aristotelian metaphysics? Or at least the distinction he makes between essence and accident? I hope so, or else my explanation just went sailing past you. Smiley

But the essence of the story still shows that what we DO plays a critical role in our salvation. For a much more in depth discussion of these, you can go to the Open Theism thread and read my post there. I went into much depth of what we must do to be “saved”.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2003, 06:53:51 PM by SonofAslan » Logged
SonofAslan
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« Reply #67 on: June 27, 2003, 07:03:53 PM »

Ambassador,

Nice story. Too bad it is contrary to Scripture. Now will you PLEASE give a straight answer to a simple question. PLEASE. WHY do you refuse to answer my question? I have asked nothing that should be difficult. If you believe Scripture, then EXPLAIN Scripture. Show how what you teach can be reconciled with what ALL of Scripture says. Don’t quote particular passages out of context, as if one Scripture passage could trump another and render it meaningless. Deal with the passages I cited, if you can. TEACH me. You spend all this time trying to preach the Gospel on here, so DO it. Show us how your belief can be reconciled with ALL of Scripture. PLEASE!!!!!!!!

Lord have mercy. You prattle on and on and ignoring these Scripture passages. Like Scripture doesn’t matter. You don’t honor your name very well. An ambassador is supposed to represent the person he is an ambassador for. But Jesus never refused to explain Scripture to one who asked. In fact, He spent much of His time, particularly post-resurrection, doing exactly that, i.e. expounding Scripture. So why do YOU refuse? I would like an honest answer here, and it seems all I get is dishonesty and rhetoric.



BrotherLove,
I do not see the relevance of your posts. I have never said that we COULD be good enough to EARN salvation. I have never even said that we will be saved because of what we do. So I fail to see how your comments have addressed what I posted. There is a lot of Scripture posting and himming and hawing, but BrotherLove and Ambassador, please address the Scriptures I posted. Your reading of Scripture contradicts the passages I have cited. And any reading of Scripture that contradicts other passages of Scripture is a false reading of Scripture. So unless you can reconcile your interpretation of the passages you have cited with the ones I have cited, then your understanding is false. I have asked you guys to explain your view in light of the passages I cited, and as of yet, both of you have refused. One could say that you refuse to do it because you don’t know how to deal with these other passages (which would render your interpretations false), but I would prefer to give you both more credit than that. So I will ask again. How do you deal with the passages of Scripture I quoted?
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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #68 on: June 27, 2003, 08:54:34 PM »

The work of Christ is the only work required for our salvation. Nothing needs to be added to what He has done. We are "complete in Him" (Col. 2:10).
 Grin
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« Reply #69 on: June 27, 2003, 09:02:09 PM »

Christ died for sinners. He died for you and for me. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:21. Knowing that WE ARE ALL SINNERS we need to understand that God will pour out His wrath upon sin. Romans 2:5, 6 says "But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:" Romans 6:23 says "For the wages of sin is DEATH; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Please read Revelation 20:10 - 15 for a description of "death") In order to avoid Gods wrath, all of our sins must be remitted. Websters dictionary defines remit as "to release from the guilt or penalty of". God has provided a way to be TOTALLY forgiven for our sins and that way is Jesus Christ, Gods Son. Romans 3:25 " Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;". God will FREELY impute (credit) the righteousness of Christ for your justification. Romans 3:24 says "Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:". Now all that you must do to receive this free gift is BELIEVE. Romans 3:26 says "To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of Him which believeth in Jesus.  Grin
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« Reply #70 on: June 27, 2003, 09:06:37 PM »

The written Word of God, the Bible, emphatically states what we must understand and what we must believe if we are to be brought into a right relationship with our Creator. We can KNOW where we will spend eternity. It makes no difference what our opinions might be, but it makes all the difference in the world what Almighty God has said must be!  Grin
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« Reply #71 on: June 27, 2003, 09:17:40 PM »

When you come to understand exactly what beliefs DO come from Scripture get back in touch with me. I have taken my beliefs from nowhere else.

You, on the other hand, can only maintain your beliefs by ignoring and distorting Scripture. When you can reconcile your beliefs with ALL of Scripture. I'll be waiting.
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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #72 on: June 27, 2003, 09:20:52 PM »

Problems arise when a person does not understand the Biblical doctrine of the two natures in the Believer, the difference between STANDING and STATE.

Passages in MATTHEW, ACTS, HEBREWS, and JAMES are the four books that people misquote the most to prove that a person can lose his salvation, plus ......... Grin
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« Reply #73 on: June 27, 2003, 09:22:28 PM »

Thank goodness, SonOfAslan. I do that as best I can. What
I'm pertaining is that I try to base my belief in scripture soully
on scripture itself, not commentaries nor preachers.

I respect ye for that.

God bless you brother in faith. Grin
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« Reply #74 on: June 27, 2003, 09:24:40 PM »

"Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Romans 10:13)

Thank You Jesus
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