popsted by SonofAslan,
Petro, no worries. I was away from the computer all this time anyway, so I didn't get interrupted by your interruptions one bit.
In my opinion, you misunderstand what "believe" means in Scripture. Notice Scripture never say we are supposed to believe something about something else. It always says we are supposed to believe IN someone. That someone is Christ.
What do we have to believe? No propositions. This is a tragedy of our post-Cartesian world that knowledge has come to mean factual knowledge of certain propositional truths. This was never what knowledge meant in Scripture. This is why the union of man and wife in sex is called "knowing". Isaac "knew" Rebekah. Knowing is an intimate relationship with someone. And believing in Christ means having that relationship with Him. And that's what we must "believe". We must come into an intimate relationship with Christ.
SonasAslan,
I think not, I understand what the word "believe" means perfectly well, as spoken of in the scriptures, it is not that difficult, and not as mystrerious as you might make it to be.
And, regardless of the fact that the scriptures have been written in Hebrew/Greek and translated into English, the fact is, it can be understood, by the reader of English, perfectly wel.
Note:
The Word believe in this verse, it specifically is speaking of faith in God, not Jesus it is God the Father, who sheds mercy and grace,thru faith, "it is a gift of God"; the natural man always wants to appeal to the Father, instead of the Son, yet he can't get there from here, because the Son is the One that reveals the Father, and no one can come to the father except by the Son (Jhn 14:6), the Father is the One who gives the gift of salvation in the end..manifested by the indwelling seal by the His Spirit. (Rom 8:9)
This is the proof of the pudding and if one belongs to Christ, he possess the Spirit of God, who witnesses to our spirit, we are the sons of God, this is the inward witness, we belong to Him. (Rom 8:16-18), and those that are led by the Spirit of God, are the children of God (Rom 8:14)
No follow this closely;
Heb 11
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him:
for he that cometh to God must
believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Now, while this agrees with your statement, that one must believe in someone, that someone is God.
And then again, this person (he) at the above verse is given to Christ by the Father (Jhn 6:37); this is the end result of the Father drawing the person to Christ, (Jhn 6:44) , so that his belief or faith is in Jesus, and not in his (the individuals) works. I think so far, it appears we agree.
Except for this point.
But then we come to Baptism.
I have a lot more to respond to given your prolific activity during my absence, so bear with me please.
That's the first point, i.e. believe. And it is a belief, i.e. faith, which works. A faith which simply says, "Oh I believe that to be true" is nothing. It is dead. It saves no one. Faith must act. It must work. Otherwise... blech.
Second point, i.e. repent. I disagree with you on one minor, I believe, point. It is not the sin of unbelief we must repent of. It is ALL sin. As Scripture further says, whoever breaks one command is guilty of breaking all of it (I don't remember where it says that, but it's there). We must turn away from ALL sin in order to attain salvation. (I will have more on this later, as it is only grace that allows us to fully do this.)
You are correct, we must forsake sin, but there is only one sin that separates sinfull man, from God. Because it only took Adam, one sin to bring on death. All other sins are simply evidence of the sinful, nature.
God is offering a pardon, and the sin of unbelief, is the sin, which keeps mankind from coming to God by Faith, although man can excersice faith, he can't do it in the spiritual realm, because He is dead to the things of God (1 Cor 2:14),
When one comes to Faith in Christ because of God the Spirit working in this person to draw his to Christ, the sin of unbelief, is settled, once and for all time, sins are forgiven, and then sinner, ism cleansed from sin, and brought out from bondage to sin, to a new life in Christ.
The sin of unbelief, is the sin, that condemns all mankind in this age of Grace, God is offering a pardon to everyone, and sinners must receive or accept this gift on Gods terms, those that don't will be judged not ,for their sins, but their works;
Yes, this is what I said, all of mankind, will be judged not for their sins, but their works in the end, because all men want to work there way into Gods grace, even those claiming to be Christians, this is what separates the believers of grace only and believers in grace plus works. (doing good and/or keeping the law)
All are dead in Adams original sin (1 Cor 15:45) the process of dying began with Adams sin (Rom 5:12), prior to this there was no death, even the creation groans because of the result of Adams sin (Rom 8:21-22), and there is none that doeth right, according to the word.
Rom 3
10 As it is written, There is
none righteous, no, not one:11 There is none that understandeth, there is
none that seeketh after God.23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Do you disagree with me because, you believe a Christian must keep the the Law perfectly and do good works?
You had previously stated, the work is; believe, repent, and be baptized; yet know it includes good works.
I trust this isn't so, since the scriptures have declared from the beginning, that;
The law was never given that by keeping it man, could be saved, in fact the Law was only given to man, that He might KNOW he had sinned, the Apostle made this plain as daylight, in Rom 3:20.
The Jew unto whom the oracles of God where entrusted to, could have his sins atoned for in the OT, by bring an animal, in accordance with the law that it could be sacrificed for his sin, but all these were just a shadow, pointing to the real sacrifice of God's own Lamb - Jesus, death, burial and resurrection ended the OT Law of sin and death (Moses Law) (Rom 8:2).
The OT laws and ordinances were
abolished in His (Christ) flesh, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; Eph 2:15.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (Rom 3:31)
And Christians today live unto a higher law, (I think you made reference to this in passing)
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. By the law of faith (Rom 3:26-28), so that Love and Obedience with you talked about is the result of Faith.
Unbelief, is what keeps people from coming to Jesus, they refuse to believe what the Spirit teaches, and that is, that all manner of sin can be forgiven, except blashpeme of the Holy Spirit.
Man confesses with his mouth what he believes in His heart, and since confession is made unto salvation (Rom 10:10), likewise, unbelief, requires confession, at it is manfested by rejecting what the Spirit expressly teaches(Mat 12:31-32).
And this is what the Spirit teaches, thru;
1 Jhn 5
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have
eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Can you lose "Eternal Life"?? If you answer yes, you deny the very words of Jesus, He says,
"they shall never perish", if you can lose it, it may very well be you never possessed it to begin with.
Now, Faith in Jesus, ends unbelief, and everyone that believes has "ternal life" according to the Spirit.
Cont'd...................
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