How was Paul Baptized ??

[duval]

Hello Mr. Rogers

Regardles of who introducd I Cor.6:9-11 into out discussion the fact remains it does not say "baptism of the Holy Spirit".  It simply said "by the spirit of our God."  Some make the mistake that everytime they see the word "Spirit" it means "baptism of the Holy Spirit".  Not so.

No, I'm not trying to split hairs nor do I wish to or have to.  You wrote: "the Spirit of our God' is indeed the Holy Spirit."  To that I agree.  But there are different administrations or gifts of the Spirit are there not?   Thus everytime we see "Spirit" it does not always follow it means "baptism of the Spirit."

As for as I Jn.19 which you memtioned you have yet to find where the passage involves the "baptism of the Holy Spirit"  The words "blood" and "cleanses" are in the context but you have no passage ANYWHERE in the NT teaching  that sins are washed or cleansed in Holy Spirit baptism.  If you are holding back on us, please bring them forth.

[Soldier4Christ]

I have given you clear scripture but you choose to reject it. I will leave the rest in God's hands.

[duval]

Hi Mr Rogers

I believe everything is always in God's hands.  What would you suggest is the clearest, strongest scripture you have presented as Biblical proof that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the "one" baptism and that it "saves"?

Thank you, and God bless,
duval

[nChrist]

I'll just put it bluntly and state that water baptism has never saved a single person, nor has it ever washed a single sin away. It's a symbolic ritual by man. One could be baptized hundreds of times and never be saved. As a contrast, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is forever, and God knows them that are His because He lives in them. The one baptism is not water.

Titus 3:4-7 KJV  But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,  5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;  6  Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;  7  That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

[duval]

Hi nChrist

Thanks for being so blunt, but it did knot add a whit to the truth of the subject.  I agree the "indwelling of the Spirit" is to the end of time but NO WHERE  in your Bible or mine does inspiration say that the "indwelling of the Spirit" and the "baptism of the Spirit" are the same.  Jesus said "search the scripture for in them ye think ye have life".  Its as needful for this subject as for any other.

QUESTION:  was the baptism of the Holy Spirit a promise or command?
QUESTION:  was water baptism a promise or command?

I appreciate bluntness and straightforwardness and do employ such when needed.  I trust I did not detect a spark of anger in your bluntness.  God is love---God bless, duval

[nChrist]

No anger. You're either not paying attention or you don't understand plain and blunt Scripture that has been given to you. I'm not going to argue about what's already been given to you, so no more questions to me. You've been given the answers, and they remain the answers. Go back and read them carefully. The last one almost spelled it out for you in a way that I didn't think could be missed.

[duval]

Hi nChrist

True, you've come up with some answers and some had scriptures attatched but none gave truth to the subject discussed.  I DO assure you I give attention to your posts as all others.  Further, while an old man I yet retain a clear understanding of what my Lord, Jesus the Christ and His apostles taught on the subject.

I shall now repeat the questions I asked you which for some reason you refused to give answer to:
QUESTION:  Was Holy Spirit baptism a promise or command?   MY answer is: promise!

QUESTION:  Was water baptism a promise  or command?  MY answer is:  command!

In view of what you said in your last post what our beloved Peter said is most appropriate now:  "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts:  and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"  I Pet.3:15.
God bless you in your search, duval


g

[dan p]

Hi nChrist

True, you've come up with some answers and some had scriptures attatched but none gave truth to the subject discussed.  I DO assure you I give attention to your posts as all others.  Further, while an old man I yet retain a clear understanding of what my Lord, Jesus the Christ and His apostles taught on the subject.

I shall now repeat the questions I asked you which for some reason you refused to give answer to:
QUESTION:  Was Holy Spirit baptism a promise or command?   MY answer is: promise!

QUESTION:  Was water baptism a promise  or command?  MY answer is:  command!

In view of what you said in your last post what our beloved Peter said is most appropriate now:  "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts:  and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"  I Pet.3:15.
God bless you in your search, duval

 Hi duval , and I  have to cut in answer you .

 When God commanded Noah to build an Ark , that was only given to Noah !!

 Lets fast forward and look at what Matt 5 says and will you agree ??

 In verse 27 , " that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her , committed Adultery , do you believe it ??

 In verse 29 , if thy  Right offend thee , pluck it out , and is this for today at this point in time ??

 In verse 30 , the same for thy right hand , just cut it off , an is this true for today ??

 And in verse 20 , if your righteousness  EXCEED  of the scribes and Pharisees , YE SHALL IN  NO CASE  ENTER  THE kINGDOM  OF  HEAVEN !!!

 And here I thought we  HAVE  THE  RIGHTEOUSNESS  OF   CHRIST  

 Are there 2  Righteousness ??

 What is the  time line for the Kingdom of Heaven

[duval]

hI Dan

I didn't get your point, can you come at it another way?

duval

[dan p]

hI Dan

I didn't get your point, can you come at it another way?

duval

 Hi duval , and the point is that there is a  NEAR  VIEW  and  a  FAR VIEW .   

 The near view is like Acts 1:6  ,  "  LORD , wilt thou at bthis time  RESTORE  the Kingdom to Israel ??

 He did not restone it because they , killed their Messiah !!

 Acts 3:19-20 , that  "  IF  "   they would Repent , then He would send Jesus  BACK , BUT weknow that they did not repent .

 So , Israel  has been set aside Rom 11:25 , until the  FULNESS of the Gentile be come in .

 The  FAR VIEW  is when Jesus comes back and sets up His Kingdom , Matt 24:3-31 , dan p

[duval]

Hi Dan

Thanks for changing the wording on your point.  I shall not respond at this time for I just wrote for your consideration when I understand the kingdom came.  If you didn't get it let me know.

[dan p]

Hi Dan

Thanks for changing the wording on your point.  I shall not respond at this time for I just wrote for your consideration when I understand the kingdom came.  If you didn't get it let me know.

 Hi duval , and I know what the Kingdom of Heaven means and maybe you can do a OP   Dispensation/OIKONOMIA  and lets see what you really  KNOW ??

[duval]

Hi Dan

I know what the kingdom is from reading the scripture.  If thats not sufficient none can make it.

God bless,
Duval

[Brother Jerry]

If water baptism saves, then I have been saved at least once every day since birth.

If water baptism saves, then the Bible is incorrect and the thief on the cross is NOT in heaven with Jesus.

If you are trying to say that water baptism is the state we are in now, then John the Baptist was wrong in Matthew 3:11
"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

If we are not baptized by Jesus with the Holy Spirit then Mark 1:8 is wrong.
"I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

John 1:33 as well
"I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'

I think even you have mentioned Acts 1:5
"for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Look at Acts 19:4
"Paul said, " John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.""
In that verse alone we could not get a clearer picture that the water baptism is a symbolic gesture.  We know that John baptized with water, but here we see that it is a baptism of repentance, and this is confirmed in Mark 1:5
"And all the country of Judea was going out to him, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins."
It is quite apparent that the physical act of baptism is purely a symbolic gesture for a 'heart change' of repentance.

So a question then:
What Baptism was Jesus talking about in Mark 10:39?
"They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized."

[duval]

Hello Jerry:

Your post was not addressed to anyone so I shall take the liberty of giving answer but to your question.

"So then a question:
What baptism was Jesus talking about in Mark 10:39? 

"They said unto Him, "We are able", and Jesus said unto them, "The cup that I drink ; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized."

In a recent post I wrote there were at least (PLEASE NOTE THAT WORD LEAST) 3 BAPTISMS IN THE NT.  I said that because I felt this question would arise and sure enough you have brought it up.  Those baptisms are 1. Holy Spirit;  2.  water and 3. fire.  Now you ask about Mark 10:39  As we study the text, to me at least, its a baptism of suffering.  Note the context speaks of suffering.  Things having to do with disciple ship, shame, rejection, mocking, scourging the cross etc.  Jesus aske them can you do this?  Are you willing to drink this cup I drink."

God Bless
duval