Questions on Witnessing...

[ollie]

I place my trust in myself and my fellow human beings. I don't mean to insult you or your religion, but frankly, belief in God (at least, the Christian one - although the Greek, Roman, Hindu, and Norse gods are also rather dubious to me) has always struck me as being rather absurd.

And the example I gave you provided information that is specific to me; the existence of stars, planets, and other celestial objects provides evidence of their existence only. Because it is not specific to the Christian God, you are assuming:

1.) Some kind of intelligent entity worthy of being called a god created these things;
2.) That this entity either penned or inspired (depends on your interpretation) the Bible;
3.) That it is in fact the God associated with Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. (Again, if you take offense... feel free to mentally edit out "Judaism" or "Islam." And no Jack Chick tracts, please.)

To put it in perspective - pretend I'm an ancient Norseman, and you ask me for proof of Odin, Thor, Freyja, Loki, and all the other Norse gods. I would most likely say, "Do you not see the sky that is held above us by dwarves? Are you not a descendant of the first humans that Odin himself crafted from trees? Have you not heard of Odin and the Aesir, that reside in Asgard? Have you not heard of how Odin gave his eye to drink from the well of wisdom, and how he hanged himself from a tree for days on end to bring us the magic of the runes? You exist! How can you not believe in the gods?"

Frustrating, isn't it?

"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

...I forget who said that. But it's a good quote.

""When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.""

The other gods seemed to have been dismissed from the scene of preeminence in the minds of men, yet the one true God and His Christ and their message remain strong as ever in hearts given to faith. Man's history is proof of this and the fact that it is still very much a part of us. Where are "Odin", "Thor" and the like today?

[AJ]

God?
 
Lets look at some amazing stuff ...that could only be done by a Powerful Intelligence, or creator...period.

If one holds to the evolutionary hypothesis, they are confronted with some unavoidable facts for which they have no answer.

A Tree

1 The tree must have had a desire to propagate its species.

2 It must have known that its seed was for this purpose and would grow.

3 It must have reasoned out that if it just dropped the seed the new plants would compete with each other and choke each other out.

4 It must have known what few people know, that the seeds would fall with the same speed as its heavy capsule.
Therefore it would have to be careful to use great wisdom to ensure the seed as scattered.

5 It would have to know the wind could be used as an agent.

6 It would have to know some things very important, that the wind was able to exert pressure on a flat surface, which the wing has, and know the principles of gliding when air pressure is present.

7 It must know about the pull of gravity. And, after all this, been able to by combining all these laws conclude that, if the wing was set at an angle of 45 degrees to the pull of gravity, and with a slight tilt, the seed would spin while falling.

8 Then also have calculated that the spinning action would extend the falling time, so that the wind could carry it even further away.

9 It must have had great wisdom in designing the capsule to have it split open in exactly the correct place to release the two seeds.

Let the evolutionist explain.

1 How did the tree know the seed must be kept perfectly dry?

2 How did it develop such an effective means of doing so by encasing the seed in a recess impregnated with damp proof wax in the sap saturated capsule?

3 Who gave the tree the formula for this wax and the knowledge to carry all the foregoing into effect?

4 Above all. How did it put life into each and every individual seed so that it would bring forth faithfully. 'After its kind' or, (miyn Hebrew) species or genus?

I may not agree with all this mans teachings...i  didnt read it all

Taken from here:
http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/efinck/GODSEAL.HTM#Page15[/url]



Amen: even the plants are alive... so how did they get this intelligence?...a creator thats how. Super Computers are not this complicated, and man created them, but not without Gods lumber or tools...man without God or creation are  useless. And may i say he has done an amazing job at providing us with this lumber...every thing we create comes from another creation... even the water in our bodys comes from this creation. Food etc...interesting isnt it?

'That which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are CLEARLY seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.' Romans 1:19-20.



 

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

Ollie,

Neo didn't bite on the judicial notice question. If he had, there would have been a legal argument that God does indeed exist according to every court in the land. After all, you do have to swear or affirm that you will tell the truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God. Many courts still have prayer before they convene, including the US Supreme Court. In fact, it is pretty common in many courts. Regardless, there is judicial notice in America that Almighty God does exist. This would be a legal proof as opposed to a scientific proof. Yes, I know that the atheists would "ha ha" at this, but they are really laughing at themselves and the time may be short to wake up and see the majesty and reality of Almighty God.

AJ,

Thanks for sharing that with us. The mighty works of God, our CREATOR, are all around us. Science may be able to explain 1% of God's creation, but that explanation would probably be poor. Thanks for the link also. I'll go there and read the rest of the article if my computer survives.

All,

In terms of proof in all categories, it is 1,000 times harder to prove that God doesn't exist.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[infotechadviser]

Christianity in my definition is belief in the Bible. This the one "faith" that is based on history and evidence.

I came from atheism and evolutionism to belief in the Bible based on the logic and the evidence.

[Neo]

Christianity in my definition is belief in the Bible. This the one "faith" that is based on history and evidence.

I came from atheism and evolutionism to belief in the Bible based on the logic and the evidence.

Please elaborate.

[ebia]

Christianity in my definition is belief in the Bible. This the one "faith" that is based on history and evidence.

Surely Christianity is a belief in Christ (and an attempt to follow Him).  It's perfectly possible to be Christian and never to have seen a bible.   The bible is a means to learn about Christ, not the end in itself.

[Allinall]

Christianity in my definition is belief in the Bible. This the one "faith" that is based on history and evidence.

Surely Christianity is a belief in Christ (and an attempt to follow Him).  It's perfectly possible to be Christian and never to have seen a bible.   The bible is a means to learn about Christ, not the end in itself.

Who does the work of salvation?

[Heidi]

Ebia, how do we know what Jesus said if we don't read the bible? Just a guess? Or are all of us omniscient?

[Brother Love]

Ebia, how do we know what Jesus said if we don't read the bible? Just a guess? Or are all of us omniscient?

 

[2nd Timothy]

How do we answer questions such as, "Can you prove God, or Jesus, Exists or existed?"

I can't believe how far off track a simple question went about witnessing.  Seems to be a trend on a few message boards these days.

I liked the answer Allinall gave.  Scripturally sounds as usual my friend.   As scripture says, (paraphrasing) only a full can look at creation and say there is no God, however there are quite a few fools these days  

One angle I take on a question like that is the following.   It is a historical fact that a man named Jesus walked the earth some 2000 years ago, and was crucified on a cross.   His followers fled into hiding fearing for their own lives.  They come out of hiding standing on the street corners professing that their Jesus had risen from the dead.   What gave them that sort of boldness knowing they would face certain death?  Could it have been they were witness to a risen Lord?

Usually this is enough to get logical minds thinking.  I also note that most will abandon this question for others when I give this answer.   I think the most important thing to remember when witnessing is to follow the Holy Spirits lead.  He will guide you and your words if you let him.   All that is needed is to plant the seed of truth.  Someone else may water it and nuture it later on.

Grace and Peace!

[Allinall]

How do we answer questions such as, "Can you prove God, or Jesus, Exists or existed?"

I can't believe how far off track a simple question went about witnessing.  Seems to be a trend on a few message boards these days.

I liked the answer Allinall gave.  Scripturally sounds as usual my friend.   As scripture says, (paraphrasing) only a full can look at creation and say there is no God, however there are quite a few fools these days  

One angle I take on a question like that is the following.   It is a historical fact that a man named Jesus walked the earth some 2000 years ago, and was crucified on a cross.   His followers fled into hiding fearing for their own lives.  They come out of hiding standing on the street corners professing that their Jesus had risen from the dead.   What gave them that sort of boldness knowing they would face certain death?  Could it have been they were witness to a risen Lord?

Usually this is enough to get logical minds thinking.  I also note that most will abandon this question for others when I give this answer.   I think the most important thing to remember when witnessing is to follow the Holy Spirits lead.  He will guide you and your words if you let him.   All that is needed is to plant the seed of truth.  Someone else may water it and nuture it later on.

Grace and Peace!

Amen Bro!  And thanks!  Good to see you back around the boards.  

[food4yoursoul]

I am in a fellowship group with some great guys.  They often speak of apologetics and arguments for Christ.   I sometimes find this interesting, but sometimes it seems that it is only for the sake of proving themselves right.  On the flipside, I found it very encouraging that an old friend of mine was able and willing to talk with me, a new Christian, about the experiences I have had.  It was obvious he was searching for something that he did not have.  I did not have to prove anything to him, just to tell my story and listen to his.  How promising and encouraging that our relationship with Christ is so very personal, as is our relationship with friends and family.  So much more is comminicated here, I think, in personal relationships, than in anywhere else in our lives.  Perhaps my struggle with testimony was that it was focused on impersonal relationships, rather than personal ones.  Well, perhaps, I ramble.

[street preacher]

Let me preface these comments by saying that I have not read this entire thread.  I have to admit that I humbly disagree with much of what I have read.  I'm only being honest..disagreement is OK when done in love.  I hope you know that I love you all and look forward to eternity with each of you.  I just happen to disagree with some of the posts.  

For starters.  I don't believe you should get off on "rabbit trails" when sharing the gospel.  Stick to the point!!! Atheists love to put the burden of proof on the Christian  but the burden is squarely on their shoulders.  However, I will offer this as some practical advice.  

If you happen to be standing outside during your discussion with the atheist, simply point to a nearby building and ask him/her how they know that building had a builder?  Or how do we know that a painting had a painter?  The building/painting is proof that there was a builder/painter.  All you need are eyes and a brain and you know that a building didn't just happen.  There was intellegent design and thought put into their creation.  You don't have to see,smell,hear, or have ever met the builder to know that he exists.  His creation is proof.  God's creation is proof that there is a creator.  

Or you can tell the atheist that you can convert them to an agnostic in 30 seconds. They always love this challenge.  

Ask them this question?   Of ALL the knowledge in the universe, how much do you think YOU personally possess.  The correct answer is less than 1/1millionth of a % but be generous and give them 1 %.  Then ask them this...  Of the 99% of knowledge that you do NOT possess,  IS IT POSSIBLE that there is some proof of God's existence.  A reasonable person would have to admit that it is at least possible.  You've just converted an atheist to an agnostic.  If they are stubborn and won't bend.  Just proceed anyway.  Still give them the gospel the way Jesus would have.  

I spend considerable amounts of time on the streets of my city witnessing to all types of people.   Make no mistake apologetics are important when sharing your faith with pre-Christians however it is not the foundation of your argument.  The gospel is the seed...not apologetical argument.  The true gospel of Jesus Christ bypasses the intellect and goes straight to the consciensce.  In other words....it evens the playing field.  Do you want to get into a philosophical discussion with a Harvard professor who professes to being an atheist? Most of us probably would not unless our name is Ravi Zacharias.  But doesn't that professor need Jesus the same way that a homeless man living in the park needs Jesus?You bet he does!  So how do we reach him? Avoid him? Let someone else do it?  Pray that God will send him someone smarter than you?  Maybe you are the one God has placed in his path.  You can do it.  You may feel unequipped and rightfully so.  Your going to war armed with a feather duster in your hand.  

One year ago, I felt the exact same way that many of you do. I was terrified of sharing my faith because I was carrying a feather duster to a gunfight.  Please go to www.thewayofthemaster.com for help in sharing your faith effectively.  They will be able to give you the weapons that will revolutionize your ability to share your faith effectively the way that Jesus did.  I've gotta' run for now.  It's ten past five and I've gotta get home.  Hope this helps.

Until the Nets are Full.

[Symphony]

Thank you, street preacher.  some good points.  Thank you for preaching the Good News.

food4:  They often speak of apologetics and arguments for Christ.  I sometimes find this interesting, but sometimes it seems that it is only for the sake of proving themselves right

Yes, unfortunately, this is a trap all of us fall into, unawares.  The "Gospel" becomes just one more excuse, among a jillion excuses that man makes up to justify himself in front of his brethren.  It takes wisdom, years of experience, good reading and/or study, and especially, or most importantly, a close, meaningful walk with Jesus, to know the difference.   Words are powerful.  Few of us know how to select them, or to select them carefully.  And, they are a reflection of who we really are.  Our words are a reflection of who--or what--we really are.  Few of us are aware of that.

[Allinall]

Let me preface these comments by saying that I have not read this entire thread.  I have to admit that I humbly disagree with much of what I have read.  I'm only being honest..disagreement is OK when done in love.  I hope you know that I love you all and look forward to eternity with each of you.  I just happen to disagree with some of the posts.  

For starters.  I don't believe you should get off on "rabbit trails" when sharing the gospel.  Stick to the point!!! Atheists love to put the burden of proof on the Christian  but the burden is squarely on their shoulders.  However, I will offer this as some practical advice.  

If you happen to be standing outside during your discussion with the atheist, simply point to a nearby building and ask him/her how they know that building had a builder?  Or how do we know that a painting had a painter?  The building/painting is proof that there was a builder/painter.  All you need are eyes and a brain and you know that a building didn't just happen.  There was intellegent design and thought put into their creation.  You don't have to see,smell,hear, or have ever met the builder to know that he exists.  His creation is proof.  God's creation is proof that there is a creator.  

Or you can tell the atheist that you can convert them to an agnostic in 30 seconds. They always love this challenge.  

Ask them this question?   Of ALL the knowledge in the universe, how much do you think YOU personally possess.  The correct answer is less than 1/1millionth of a % but be generous and give them 1 %.  Then ask them this...  Of the 99% of knowledge that you do NOT possess,  IS IT POSSIBLE that there is some proof of God's existence.  A reasonable person would have to admit that it is at least possible.  You've just converted an atheist to an agnostic.  If they are stubborn and won't bend.  Just proceed anyway.  Still give them the gospel the way Jesus would have.  

I spend considerable amounts of time on the streets of my city witnessing to all types of people.   Make no mistake apologetics are important when sharing your faith with pre-Christians however it is not the foundation of your argument.  The gospel is the seed...not apologetical argument.  The true gospel of Jesus Christ bypasses the intellect and goes straight to the consciensce.  In other words....it evens the playing field.  Do you want to get into a philosophical discussion with a Harvard professor who professes to being an atheist? Most of us probably would not unless our name is Ravi Zacharias.  But doesn't that professor need Jesus the same way that a homeless man living in the park needs Jesus?You bet he does!  So how do we reach him? Avoid him? Let someone else do it?  Pray that God will send him someone smarter than you?  Maybe you are the one God has placed in his path.  You can do it.  You may feel unequipped and rightfully so.  Your going to war armed with a feather duster in your hand.  

One year ago, I felt the exact same way that many of you do. I was terrified of sharing my faith because I was carrying a feather duster to a gunfight.  Please go to www.thewayofthemaster.com for help in sharing your faith effectively.  They will be able to give you the weapons that will revolutionize your ability to share your faith effectively the way that Jesus did.  I've gotta' run for now.  It's ten past five and I've gotta get home.  Hope this helps.

Until the Nets are Full.

Amen!  And welcome aboard Brother!