Rapture

[Bronzesnake]

BigD quote...

 

Dainel 9 does not specificly say that a peace treaty must be signed PRIOR to the beginning of the Tribulation. It does state that one will be signed and broken in the middle.

 My friend. Dan 9 states clearly that there will be seven years from the signing of that treaty. After Jesus was cut off, there is only seven years left. Why can't you understand this my friend? There's no extra time to make up for your extra year. It's actually more than a year if you count the time from Jesus' death up to the stoning of Stephen. It just doesn't fit in with the scriptures time line.

 Bronzesnake

[Shammu]

My friend. Dan 9 states clearly that there will be seven years from the signing of that treaty. After Jesus was cut off, there is only seven years left. Why can't you understand this my friend? There's no extra time to make up for your extra year. It's actually more than a year if you count the time from Jesus' death up to the stoning of Stephen. It just doesn't fit in with the scriptures time line.

 Bronzesnake

AMEN!!

[BigD]

DreamWeaver and Bronzesnake:

If either one of you can SHOW ME that Joel in Joel 2:28-32 is not speaking of the Tribulation, and/or Peter at Pentecost is in gross error when he said that the Tribulation has started, THEN I WILL BELIEVE YOU!!!!!! HOW MUCH EASIER CAN I MAKE IT FOR YOU. I will believe everything you guys write if you can show me that from Scripture. I WILL SURENDER.

PLEASE print out a verse that says that a treaty MUST BE SIGNED before the Tribulation can begin.

Israel is still in a set aside condition. Israel will not be restored until after the rapture of the church, the Body of Christ. Restored Israel must be present to sign the treaty. When the Church, the Body of Christ is raptured, then Israel will be in the exact place in the timetable of prophesy as she was when she was cut off. They were still under the Law and the Tribulation will have resumed. There was no treaty signed at the time the Tribulation started in Acts 2, and it still will have not been signed when the chruch is raptured.

The time clock of prophesy didn't stop at the crucifiction of Christ but it was stopped when God set Israel aside.

How can the promises to the fathers of Israel be fulfilled when prophesy cannot be fulfilled while Israel is in a set aside condition? Are you saying that the prophetic time clock never stopped?

Looking forward to the response from BOTH of you.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

P.S. Bronzesnake, your book is in the mail. Should be ther if 4-7 days.

[Shammu]

DreamWeaver and Bronzesnake:

If either one of you can SHOW ME that Joel in Joel 2:28-32 is not speaking of the Tribulation, and/or Peter at Pentecost is in gross error when he said that the Tribulation has started, THEN I WILL BELIEVE YOU!!!!!! HOW MUCH EASIER CAN I MAKE IT FOR YOU. I will believe everything you guys write if you can show me that from Scripture. I WILL SURENDER.

PLEASE print out a verse that says that a treaty MUST BE SIGNED before the Tribulation can begin.

Israel is still in a set aside condition. Israel will not be restored until after the rapture of the church, the Body of Christ. Restored Israel must be present to sign the treaty. When the Church, the Body of Christ is raptured, then Israel will be in the exact place in the timetable of prophesy as she was when she was cut off. They were still under the Law and the Tribulation will have resumed. There was no treaty signed at the time the Tribulation started in Acts 2, and it still will have not been signed when the chruch is raptured.

The time clock of prophesy didn't stop at the crucifiction of Christ but it was stopped when God set Israel aside.

How can the promises to the fathers of Israel be fulfilled when prophesy cannot be fulfilled while Israel is in a set aside condition? Are you saying that the prophetic time clock never stopped?

Looking forward to the response from BOTH of you.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

P.S. Bronzesnake, your book is in the mail. Should be ther if 4-7 days.

The Book of Joel, is a prophetical book yes. The Book of Joel, calls for the people to repent, and for tells the coming of the Holy Spirit.
Joel 2:28,- Concordance to Ezek 39:29, Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.  Zech 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Joel 2:29,- Concordance to Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Joel 2:30,- Concordance to Matt 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (which deals in tribulation.)
Joel 2:31,- Concordance to Is 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. MAL 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Joel 2:32, And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

This is why I mainly ignore you big D. You have a habit of twisting the Bible. When you do this, you confuse people.    Now, look at the concordance to the book of Joel. What do you see?

I will now go back to ignoring you. I don't need the confusion your post make. By the way Big D, this is not an attack on you. I am just being blunt, at the moment.
Bob

[nChrist]

We werent arguing about any of those topics what are you talking about???  That was totally random.  Big D you never responded to my post so i can only believe that you have no argument and that i am right.  HAHA. VICTORY.

Shrek,

This is childish and represents a harsh example of exactly what I was talking about just before this post.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 2:11  For there is no respect of persons with God.

Psalms 19:14  Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

1 Timothy 6:4-6  He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain.

[BigD]

GreenWeaver:
Then allow me to be blunt with you.

I can understand why you won't be back. You HAVE NOT and CANNOT SHOW ME that Joel IS NOT speaking of the Tribulation. However, you do say that it is a prophetic. I ALREADY KNEW THAT." That is not in question.

Peter, at Pentecost is saying that what Joel has prophesied is NOW HAPPENING. PLEASE do one of two things. Call either call Peter a LIAR or agree with him. I will double dog dare you. (Really don't enjoy being this blunt, but feel I must. NOW, it is either put up or shut up.

I have repeatedly stated that if one would show me from Scripture that I was in error, I would change my views. None of you have done that. So how do you expect me to change my views.

Jesus said in Mathew 15:24 "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." At the time that Jesus spoke those words, there was still a "middle wall of partition" between the Jew and Gentile. The Gentiles were considered "unclean," "heathen," "dogs," and "outside the gate. There was no such thing as "The Body of Christ" Jew and Gentile one equal footing, without distinction and not under the Law. Body of Christ was still future revelation.

Joel 2 contains ONLY prophesies that pertain to the nation of Israel. The Body of Christ can't even be found in any OT prophesies.

You cannot find the "Body of Christ" in the Bible until we get to Paul's epistles. In Galatians 2, Paul is only addressing believers that make up the Body of Christ.

The Body of Christ is made of of "the one new man" of Ephesians 2:15. In the Body of Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile. ALL of mankind is NOW on equal footing. That wasn't so in Joel's time.

Forgive me for being so blunt but you started it.

I think that you will find that I have gone to great lengths to present my views.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[nChrist]

BigD Said:

I can understand why you won't be back. You HAVE NOT and CANNOT SHOW ME that Joel IS NOT speaking of the Tribulation. However, you do say that it is a prophetic. I ALREADY KNEW THAT." That is not in question.

BigD,

I think that you and Shrek make the perfect adversaries. Have at it - we'll watch.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[BigD]

bep:
What you quoted above is what I posted to GreenWeaver. I doubt very much that he will be back either. Why? Because he CAN'T show me what I requested. Evidently he doesn't want me to change my views. As I have often said, I am still in the learning mode.

It will be pretty hard to be an adversary with you because you will not defend what you write. At least sherk and I defend our postions. Is there anything wrong with that?

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

[Shammu]

You know BigD you have alot to learn.
First off, I was agreeing with BRNZ., when you attacked me, for agreeing with him.
Second off, It's DreamWeaver or Bob, NOT GreenWeaver.

I will double dog dare you. (Really don't enjoy being this blunt, but feel I must. NOW, it is either put up or shut up.

Thats rather childish isn't it?
3rd off, I am answering a PM, I got to answer you.

I Worldwide rapture of all Christians. 1 Thess. 4:16-17; Rev. 3:10
PLEASE print out a verse that says that a treaty MUST BE SIGNED before the Tribulation can begin.

II Antichrist makes a covenant with Israel, officially beginning the seven-year Tribulation. Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Which is the answer you were looking for.

Two witnesses of Revelation 11 begin their ministry. Rev. 11:3

I think I make it quite clear in my statement, now. K.I.S.S. Keep it so simple.  The Bible was written, by simple men. The Bible should be look at, by those means.

I have tried to explain to you before, on your views. You have choose to ignore me too many times. So why should I try, and make you change your mind now?  

As for learning mode, everyone is in a learning mode. But I will not argue with a dispensatist, you have twisted too many of my words. To where they mean what you want them to mean.

Again, this is not an attack on you.

May God show you his Glory.
Bob

[shrekandogre]

We werent arguing about any of those topics what are you talking about???  That was totally random.  Big D you never responded to my post so i can only believe that you have no argument and that i am right.  HAHA. VICTORY.

Shrek,

This is childish and represents a harsh example of exactly what I was talking about just before this post.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 2:11  For there is no respect of persons with God.

Psalms 19:14  Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

1 Timothy 6:4-6  He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain.

Guess what i dont care.  SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  IM HAVING FUN WITH THIS. HA!!!

bep:
What you quoted above is what I posted to GreenWeaver. I doubt very much that he will be back either. Why? Because he CAN'T show me what I requested. Evidently he doesn't want me to change my views. As I have often said, I am still in the learning mode.

It will be pretty hard to be an adversary with you because you will not defend what you write. At least sherk and I defend our postions. Is there anything wrong with that?

i totally agree for once with that last comment.  Sry i couldnt respond ive been preoccupado with work and la eschuela.  

Dainel 9 does not specificly say that a peace treaty must be signed PRIOR to the beginning of the Tribulation. It does state that one will be signed and broken in the middle.

I do believe that there will be a peace treaty signed very shortly after the Tribulation is resumed.

If you will SHOW ME from Scripture that Jeol, in 2:28-32 is not speaking of the Tribulation, and/or Peter in Acts 2:15-20 doesn't know where he is in the prophetic time clock, THEN I WILL ADMIT THAT YOU HAVE VICTORY. HAHA

I have requested the above from other, and they still have not shown me what I requested. Even PROMISED to change my views if they did. So, if you wish for me to change my views - SHOW ME

The reasons that I participate in these forum discussions are twofold. It is to learn, to have my knowledge of the Bible broadened, and to express my views as to what I believe the Bible teaches on various subjects.

As I have stated earlier, I am still in the learning mode.

Okay im not going to even say anything with the Daniel thing because Bronzesnake basically said it all and it just be repeating.  The fact is Daniel says after the treaty there will tribulation.  He may not come out and say this is the tribulation but since he's mentioning the antichrist we know that that is what he is talking about and along with that he said there will be seven years afterwards.  How many years in the tribulation? 7 not 8 and not 7 and 1 day.  7 years therefore the tribulation couldnt start in Acts when Peter was talking because of course the treaty was not there.  Peter was also saying here this is what happened Joel says that the Holy Spirit will be poured out on believers.  And the wrath for nonbelievers.  Anyway where is the antichrist? I know i asked earlier but i never got a response for the tribulation to occur the antichrist must be present which he is not and there cant be two different antichrists and two different times there is no bibical ref. that can possibly support that idea.  With Joel 2:28-32.  I already told you that 28-29 are bascially what is happening now with the Holy Spirit coming down.  And then 32 happens to do with the believer aka the remnant.  So you cant use the verses to support the tribulation occuring. So lets look at 30,31.  I do believe those are going to occur during the tribulation and will precede the Second Coming.  There is no problem with that as i can see it but the thing to ask is why did Peter say it in Acts.  Peter said it because this marked the last dispensation of grace kinda like what you said earlier or as others put is the God's final act of salvation but the difference between you and me on this thing is that i believe and through different commentaries know that they are talking about an age and Peter is saying that these things will occur at the end of this dispensation he's not refereing to now hes refering to the tribulation which will occur much later after the rapture.    And he says "and they shall prophesy" vs. 18  that just means that you should be ready for it because everyone is letting you know thats it's coming.  Here's a new way of putting it Peter just pushed start on the countdown from now to the tribulation.  I hope this helps eventhough it may be confusing.

[BigD]

DreamWeaver:
THANKS for a more civil reply.

PLEASE forgive me for misspelling your name. Believe me, it was not intentional. I do not know why I typed "Green" instread of "Dream."

My response to you and Bronze at the same time is because in the one word of your response to him ("AMEN)" signafied to me that you were in agreement with every word he wrote and in essance you were saying the same thing.

If you do not want to get involved, then stay out of it entirely. The same goes for blackeyedpeas. When you do get involved, be prepared to defend what you say.

Yes, the "double dog dare" remark was childish. I knew that when I wrote it, and it was on purpose. However, in my youth  it was said if one wanted someone to "put up or shut up." It was issued as a challange. If one did not act on the double dog dare, that one was admitting defeat. You did not accept the double dog dare.

I am well aware of the fact that Daniel 9:27 speaks of the treaty. Nothing in that verse indicates to me that it MUST be signed prior to the Tribulation starting. You are reading that into it.

What I was really looking for is an explanation as to why Peter was in error when he said the Tribulation has started. His statment in Acts 2:16 "But this is that which was spoken by the Prophet Joel:" means exactly what it says. "The last days" are the Tribulation. The signs of those last days were beginning to appear.

I am well aware of Revelation 11:3.

The manner in which I NOW study the Bible is literally and in context. What was written to Israel and the children of Israel is FOR Isreal and the children of Isreal. What is written to members of the Body of Christ is FOR members of the Body of Christ. Members of the Body of Christ are not Jews or "spiritual" Jews.  The children of Israel were under the Law, and the members of the Body of Christ are NOT under the law but GRACE. These are two opposing doctrines. PLEASE CORRECT ME if you feel what I just said is wrong.

PLEASE (I BEG OF YOU) give me a few examples where I "twisted" your words. I will then go back and see how I might have done that.

What is a "dispensatist"? Not familiar with the word. I will admit to be one that is called a "dispensationalist."

What I have just posted, is not an attack upon you, but a response to what you said.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[BigD]

sherk posted

Okay im not going to even say anything with the Daniel thing because Bronzesnake basically said it all and it just be repeating.  The fact is Daniel says after the treaty there will tribulation.  He may not come out and say this is the tribulation but since he's mentioning the antichrist we know that that is what he is talking about and along with that he said there will be seven years afterwards.  How many years in the tribulation? 7 not 8 and not 7 and 1 day.  7 years therefore the tribulation couldnt start in Acts when Peter was talking because of course the treaty was not there.  Peter was also saying here this is what happened Joel says that the Holy Spirit will be poured out on believers.  And the wrath for nonbelievers.  Anyway where is the antichrist? I know i asked earlier but i never got a response for the tribulation to occur the antichrist must be present which he is not and there cant be two different antichrists and two different times there is no bibical ref. that can possibly support that idea.  With Joel 2:28-32.  I already told you that 28-29 are bascially what is happening now with the Holy Spirit coming down.  And then 32 happens to do with the believer aka the remnant.  So you cant use the verses to support the tribulation occuring. So lets look at 30,31.  I do believe those are going to occur during the tribulation and will precede the Second Coming.  There is no problem with that as i can see it but the thing to ask is why did Peter say it in Acts.  Peter said it because this marked the last dispensation of grace kinda like what you said earlier or as others put is the God's final act of salvation but the difference between you and me on this thing is that i believe and through different commentaries know that they are talking about an age and Peter is saying that these things will occur at the end of this dispensation he's not refereing to now hes refering to the tribulation which will occur much later after the rapture.    And he says "and they shall prophesy" vs. 18  that just means that you should be ready for it because everyone is letting you know thats it's coming.  Here's a new way of putting it Peter just pushed start on the countdown from now to the tribulation.  I hope this helps eventhough it may be confusing.

Let us take a look at exactly Peter said at Pentecost in Acts 2:15-20.

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day (9 a.m).
16 BUT THIS IS THAT WHICH WAS SPOKEN OF BY THE PROPHET JOES; (Joel 2:28-32).
17 AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS IN THE LAST DAYS, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visionc, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days ("the last days" that Peter just said were happening in the phrase "BUT THIS IS THAT...) of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneith; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 the sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable DAY OF THE LORD come. (The "DAY OF THE LORD" is His 2nd coming., when He returns as The righteous Judge.)

So Peter IS SAYING that the Tribulation has started, the end time signs were now appearing. He quotes all of Joel to point out to his listeners what they still had to look forward to before Jesus returned (Day of the Lord). However, the days that were happen then (the start of the Tribulation), were interrupted with the setting aside of Israel after the stoning of Stephen and the raising up of Saul/Paul.

Why would Peter offer the kingdom to Israel, in Acts 3:19-21, if he wasn't saying the Tribulation wasn't happening? He understood the OT Scripture which said that Jesus must first suffer and that Israel had to go through the Tribulation before the kingdom could be established.

Let me express my views concerning the "anti-Christ." I do believe that at Pentecost, there was a person alive that had all of the qualification of being the anti-christ. Had the Tribulation continued, that person would have been revealed.

It is my contention, and I cannot support this from scripture, that the person who becomes the anti-Christ is one that is very charismatic. That one comes into a position of power and is able to accomplish many things that people believed were impossible. People will begin to look to him as a god. He himself becomes so filled with ego and pride in what he has accomplished that he himself believes that he is God, and starts to act as if he were God.

It is my contention that being the rapture can happen at any moment, there there has always been one that could have filled that bill.

When I look back at the history that I have lived through, there were many past leaders that many church people said that they were the anti-Christ, and tried to prove if from scripture. Hitler and various popes come to mind. There were others also.

If the anti-Christ is alive today, he himself no doubt doesn't know it yet. I do believe that it is very possible for the anti-Christ is already alive.

The dispensation of grace cannot be found in the OT prophesies or in the gospels. Peter in Acts 2 knew nothing about the dispensation of grace. That was not ushered in until AFTER the setting aside of Israel and the raising up of Saul/Paul. It was part of the MYSTERY that was revealed to Paul.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[Bronzesnake]

BigD quote...

 

Nothing in that verse indicates to me that it MUST be signed prior to the Tribulation starting

 I will try one last time my friend.

 Read carefully...


Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 Do you believe the Word of God BigD? It says "he shall"
That means it will happen...what will happen?..."he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week"

 Again - do you believe God's Word or not? Are you able to understand what God is saying in this verse BigD? Are you able to put the clues together BigD?

 Let me help...
There are seven years left from Daniel's 70 weeks...SEVEN - PERIOD! God clearly says that the antichrist WILL sign a peace pact, and that peace deal WILL last for SEVEN YEARS.

 You're trying to tell us that the first year after the peace deal is signed is not Tribulation, but for some bizarre, unknown reason, after that first year Tribulation begins...again! Does that make sense to you my friend?

It doesn't take a genius to figure it out BigD. If there is only SEVEN YEARS left from Daniel's 70 weeks and God says the from the time antichrist signs the deal there WILL be SEVEN YEARS LEFT. Then the peace deal MUST BE SIGNED PRIOR TO THE TRIBULATION STARTING.

 Think hard my friend. Why would God go to the trouble of making the distinction from the prior 490 year periods - to a 483 year period, which corresponds with the death of Jesus?
 This number (483) is different because it marks the time when the clock stops. There are SEVEN years left. The SEVEN years are purposefully numbered out to the last day in Revelation, which corresponds with Daniel's verses pertaining to the antichrist's signing of the SEVEN YEAR peace deal.

 BigD quote...

 

Let me express my views concerning the "anti-Christ." I do believe that at Pentecost, there was a person alive that had all of the qualification of being the anti-christ. Had the Tribulation continued, that person would have been revealed.

 BigD, please show me the verses in the Bible that describe this antichrist at Pentecost. Also, please point me to the verses which detail that the reason why the "Tribulation" stopped was because this antichrist would have been revealed. If I follow your logic to it's obvious conclusion, then the Tribulation can never begin because if it does, the antichrist will be revealed!  

 This is typical of you my friend. It is pure speculation without any Biblical reference. This is a dangerous practice my friend. I didn't realize the extent of your personal non Biblical "interpretations" I truly believed you were simply not understanding the Bible.

 I've had enough of this. You can not "correct' someone on Biblical doctrine when they have their own doctrine as reference.

Take care BigD. I pray that you will turn your faith to God and His Word exclusively, and turn away from the false interpretations of man.

 By the way... It was a serious breech of protocol going straight to "double dog dare" and completely bypassing "I dare you" It's no better than going from "I dare you"  straight to "I tripple dog dare you" These things must be done in their correct order.

 Please remember this the next time you have a schoolyard exchange!  

 Bronzesnake

[BigD]

Bronze:
I do agree with you that there will be a treaty signed for one week, as the verse you quote states. However, there is nothing in that verse that says that the treaty cannot start until that treaty is signed. I also feel that the treaty wil be signed very soon after the Tribulation which was interrupted resumes.

Further, I don't believe that the Tribulation has to last exactly 7 years. Matthew 24:22 states: "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved, but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened."

How does that fit into Daniel 9:27? So, if those days are shortened, by how much will they be shortened. Now, where is the middle?

I am not quoting man made theories. It is straight from the Bible.

Please study Acts 2:15-20 that I had just posted to sherk. I will copy it for you so you don't have to go back.

Study it and tell me what part is man made interpetations.

From my previous post to sherk:
Let us take a look at exactly Peter said at Pentecost in Acts 2:15-20.

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. (9 a.m).
16 BUT THIS IS THAT WHICH WAS SPOKEN OF BY THE PROPHET JOES; (Joel 2:28-32).
17 AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS IN THE LAST DAYS, (The Tribulation) saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days ("the last days" that Peter just said were happening in the phrase "BUT THIS IS THAT...) of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth benieth; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 the sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable DAY OF THE LORD come. (The "DAY OF THE LORD" is His 2nd coming., when He returns as The righteous Judge.)

So Peter IS SAYING that the Tribulation has started, the end time signs were now appearing. He quotes all of Joel to point out to his listeners what they still had to look forward to before Jesus returned (Day of the Lord). However, the days that were happen then (the start of the Tribulation), were interrupted with the setting aside of Israel after the stoning of Stephen and the raising up of Saul/Paul. Why else would the Tribulation have been interrupted?

Why would Peter offer the kingdom to Israel, in Acts 3:19-21, if he wasn't saying the Tribulation wasn't happening? He understood the OT Scripture which said that Jesus must first suffer and that Israel had to go through the Tribulation before the kingdom could be established."

The Scripture above came straight out of BigD's Bible.

Until you do show, from Scripture, that the above is totally in error, I rest my case.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[shrekandogre]

Big D again my words have been twisted.  
To address a couple things.

What is a "dispensatist"? Not familiar with the word. I will admit to be one that is called a "dispensationalist."

Sry about that apparently I cant spell maybe i should type this on Word and use spell check.  I am also a dispensationalist and being one I have to look at what the Hebrew says when Peter says in the last days and the definition is afterwards, later.  Your totally right about some parts of Joel as I said earlier 30,31 are talking about the tribulation im not arguing that with you its the reason why Peter is saying it that we mainly disagree.  So one more time ill say it.  Peter is talking about what to come he quotes Joel for two reasons:  One is because the Jews used the OT so they'd know what he is talking about.  Second he was saying holy spirit is being poured on us like Joel prophesyed and that the Tribulation will be coming soon NOT that the tribulation has begun.  he said "they will prophesy"  Thats future tense meaning that people will begin prophesying the end of days aka as the tribulation meaning that it will happen later and that we should be ready.  He's talking in future tense not present so therefore the tribulation did not start in acts or any time around there.