Rapture

[Jemidon2004]

Israel was set aside long before the stoning of Stephen. This is evidenced in the fact that Israel was no longer a nation. God's taking Israel out of being a nation is punishment and the casting aside...The time when they are  cast aside i believe, is when the Shekinah Glory left the Temple of Solomon around 395-393 b.c. Notice it went from the Temple to the gates, from the gates to the mount of Olives, then from the mount of Olives up into heaven. So thus when God saw that they were not going to pay any attention to the Glory of the Lord, or turn back to Him, He withdrew His presence from the Temple...and it hasn't been there since. Even when Herod's temple was being built, God's Glory did NOT dwell there. Why? Because He had already blinded Israel to the fact that they needed a Savior and had already cast them aside. Why else would God allow the Pharisees and the Sadduccees to rule as a religious order claiming to talk to God. Simply because Israel had already been cast aside. There is no Scriptural evidence to support Israel being cast aside at the stoning of Stephen, i simply do not see it in Scripture anywhere. It had already happened when the Glory of the Lord left the Temple in Jerusalem and the fall of Israel as a nation. I discuss this in further detail with my study on Israel: Still God's Nation or Completely without Hope" Another thing. You need to notice that there IS a gap between the 69th and 70th week. Notice that 69 weeks will occur and they will finish at Christ's Crucifixion. However, it shows that next the "people of the prince" shall come and the city will be destroyed and a flood will come. Many Biblical scholars and Historians will agree that this happened in 70 a.d. So it does show a gap between the 69th and 70th week. The timeline just doesn't line up. You have a gap between the Crucifixion of Christ and the covenant made by Anti-christ. According to what you're saying, the Tribulation started close to Christ's crucifixion and was interrupted...however if you say it was interrupted at Stephen's stoning, again the timeline doesn't line up. Also Peter is using Joel's prophecy as an EXAMPLE as to what was happening. He's not saying that the Tribulation period has occurred. Also, you have to distinguish what Peter is talking about. Is He talking about the Last days in reference to Israel, or the Last days in reference to the Church. Again, where does Stephen's stoning come into play. It seems that you are standing on one set of Scriptures in Acts. That's what it seems to me as the issue with Stephen is concerned. Sorry if my thoughts seem to be scattered. I'm trying to remember word for word what i wrote out last night, seeing as i'm at the library and I don't have my materials with me. Hope this is making any sense...i'll get back to you guys when i have my materials in front of me. God Bless

Joshua

[Bronzesnake]

 This is probably not unlike beating a dead horse, but...

 BigD quote...

Further, I don't believe that the Tribulation has to last exactly 7 years. Matthew 24:22 states: "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved, but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened."

 If you do not believe God when He says it will last seven years, then I can't help you my friend.

 God has specifically told us that immediately upon the antichrist signing the peace deal there will be seven years PERIOD! He didn't say the MIGHT BE SEVEN YEARS, He said there WILL BE SEVEN YEARS. He even goes to the trouble of actually numbering the days BigD! He even goes further, and actually describes what is happening on earth and in Heaven simultaneously for the entire SEVEN YEAR period!

 Matthew 24:22 isn't going against God's own Word my friend. If that were true, then God is either mistaken, and there really isn't SEVEN YEARS which He said there WAS and IS, or God's a liar...which is it BigD" Matthew 24:22 is referring to the fact that at the end of the seven years Jesus comes to put a quick decisive end to the war...ever heard of Armageddon? If Jesus didn't come back at the end of the seven years to stop the world war (greatest war in history) there would be no one left alive.

 Read Revelation my friend. God says there will be SEVEN YEARS of satan ruling on earth...the final SEVEN YEARS.

BigD quote...

 

Let me express my views concerning the "anti-Christ." I do believe that at Pentecost, there was a person alive that had all of the qualification of being the anti-christ. Had the Tribulation continued, that person would have been revealed

.

my response...

 

Let me express my views concerning the "anti-Christ." I do believe that at Pentecost, there was a person alive that had all of the qualification of being the anti-christ. Had the Tribulation continued, that person would have been revealed

.

 BigD reply...

I am not quoting man made theories. It is straight from the Bible.

Please study Acts 2:15-20 that I had just posted to sherk. I will copy it for you so you don't have to go back.

Study it and tell me what part is man made interpetations

 I can't find this mysterious antichrist in those verses BigD...please point them out for me. Show me exactly where this antichrist figure can be found in the scriptures. Better yet, humble yourself and be honest - admit that it's not really there, and that you had to come up with some kind of explanation to back your false doctrine, because the real Bible verses are in total opposition to your beliefs.

That's about all I can do for you my friend. It's all laid out for you. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink can you?

Bronzesnake

 

[BigD]

sherk:
It wasn't you who spelled "dispensationalist" wrong. It was DreamWeaver.

Joel, in 2:28-32 is speaking in the future tense. Peter is quoting Joel almost word for word. He is using the same tense Joel used because he is quoting him. The time that Joel was speaking of was happening at Pentecost.

Had the Tribulation not been interrupted, those things that Joel spoke of would have ALL been fulfilled.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

[nChrist]

BigD Said:

If you do not want to get involved, then stay out of it entirely. The same goes for blackeyedpeas. When you do get involved, be prepared to defend what you say.

Yes, the "double dog dare" remark was childish. I knew that when I wrote it, and it was on purpose. However, in my youth  it was said if one wanted someone to "put up or shut up." It was issued as a challange. If one did not act on the double dog dare, that one was admitting defeat. You did not accept the double dog dare.

BigD,

This is getting more childish by the moment. Just for the record, we will become involved however we wish with total disregard for your agenda or what you may want or not want. We will post what we wish, argue what we wish, and not argue if we wish.  WOW! - you're sounding like a six year old.

Here's a news flash for you. Many of us don't post for the purpose of argument, especially the worst kind of arguments. The worst kinds of argument are for vanity, argument's sake, semantics, and other childish reasons that most mature Christians try to avoid.

However, there is no rule against this. If childish arguments are your cup of tea, drink up. In the meantime, you won't be making any rules that others must join you. Anyone who wishes to can post a message here and feel no obligation at all to involve themselves in a childish argument with you. If someone else wishes to to argue with you, they are most welcome to do so. If they don't wish to argue with you, they are most welcome to do whatever they want to with total disregard for what you want or don't want.

"Double-dog dare".     What will we hear next?  "Na, na, na, na, na".  

You really shouldn't wonder why many on the forum won't engage in discussions with you. WOW!    I still love you brother.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 30:21  And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

[Bronzesnake]

GOD IS SENDING HUNDREDS OF MESSAGES TO THE PEOPLE NOW...

AND WHAT HE'S SAYIN IS NOT WHAT THE PEOPLE ARE THINKING!!!


http://www.prophetsperspectiveconditionsofthechurches.freeweb.to/

Fruitcake anyone?

Bronzesnake

[nChrist]

Bronzesnake,

     Yes brother, I waded through almost 50 pages of babbling and found nothing but fruitcake, so I deleted the posts.

This fruitcake was all nuts.  

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 27:14  Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

[Bronzesnake]

Bronzesnake,

     Yes brother, I waded through almost 50 pages of babbling and found nothing but fruitcake, so I deleted the posts.

This fruitcake was all nuts.  

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 27:14  Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

 Stop! you're killing me!!  

Bronzesnake

[Jemidon2004]

You should already be dead, or are you still alive in that flesh of yours? I'm dead...I'm just a Dead man walking God Bless

Joshua

[BUTCHA]

The rapture is several years in the future yet. We need to prepare for what is coming. The next big things on God's agenda r the raising up of Israel and the bringing down of America. This country has been blessed beyond any other and this has become a wicked nation. When the luke warm church sits by and lets over 1 million of its unborn be murdered each year this has become a wicked nation. In the near future God is going to give Israel knowledge and understanding that will make them the center of the world, give them the wealth of the world and take away the wealth of their enemies. It will cause the Jews of the world to go back to Israel. It will cause Russia to one day mass a huge muslem army and come against Israel. The so called 7 year trib. will soon start after this. It will take care of the muslem problem and clear the site where the temple is to be built. It will take time to rebuild Jerusalem and build the temple. u can read about it in ezekiel 38 & 39 it starts out (A country that was scattered by the sword that has been brought back and is at peace) Israel has not even been brought back yet. There is much to happen before the rapture. God is going to allow nuclear bombs to be set off in this country that will bring down our economy. When people r in need they will flock to the church. We need to prepare to take care of our families because there will be few jobs and the church needs to prepare to help people and win souls for christ. I know this is not the popular belief [but it is the truth]. I will not argue with anyone over this i am just warning u of what is coming. PREPARE  

this is a great book you have wrote, but its not the truth its just someones view of how they think proficy will be fullfilled and you shouldnt say its the truth but i assume you mean well and just want people to be prepared,by makeing sure its all good with god

[Bronzesnake]

You should already be dead, or are you still alive in that flesh of yours? I'm dead...I'm just a Dead man walking God Bless

Joshua

 

 

Oh no!!! You're right!!! I am dead!! I was just to ignorant to realize it!    

Dem bones, dem bones, dem dry bones!

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Bronzesnake

[Jemidon2004]

took ya long enough...just giving ya a hard time.

Joshua

[nChrist]

You should already be dead, or are you still alive in that flesh of yours? I'm dead...I'm just a Dead man walking God Bless

Joshua

 

 

Oh no!!! You're right!!! I am dead!! I was just to ignorant to realize it!    

Dem bones, dem bones, dem dry bones!

[/color][/size][/font]

Bronzesnake

 All I can suggest is more calcium and to stay away from museums.  

[shrekandogre]

BigD Said:

If you do not want to get involved, then stay out of it entirely. The same goes for blackeyedpeas. When you do get involved, be prepared to defend what you say.

Yes, the "double dog dare" remark was childish. I knew that when I wrote it, and it was on purpose. However, in my youth  it was said if one wanted someone to "put up or shut up." It was issued as a challange. If one did not act on the double dog dare, that one was admitting defeat. You did not accept the double dog dare.

BigD,

This is getting more childish by the moment. Just for the record, we will become involved however we wish with total disregard for your agenda or what you may want or not want. We will post what we wish, argue what we wish, and not argue if we wish.  WOW! - you're sounding like a six year old.

Here's a news flash for you. Many of us don't post for the purpose of argument, especially the worst kind of arguments. The worst kinds of argument are for vanity, argument's sake, semantics, and other childish reasons that most mature Christians try to avoid.

However, there is no rule against this. If childish arguments are your cup of tea, drink up. In the meantime, you won't be making any rules that others must join you. Anyone who wishes to can post a message here and feel no obligation at all to involve themselves in a childish argument with you. If someone else wishes to to argue with you, they are most welcome to do so. If they don't wish to argue with you, they are most welcome to do whatever they want to with total disregard for what you want or don't want.

"Double-dog dare".     What will we hear next?  "Na, na, na, na, na".  

You really shouldn't wonder why many on the forum won't engage in discussions with you. WOW!    I still love you brother.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 30:21  And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

If you dont like it dont read it we arent making you.

[BigD]

Jemidon2004 posted

Israel was set aside long before the stoning of Stephen. This is evidenced in the fact that Israel was no longer a nation. God's taking Israel out of being a nation is punishment and the casting aside...The time when they are  cast aside i believe, is when the Shekinah Glory left the Temple of Solomon around 395-393 b.c. Notice it went from the Temple to the gates, from the gates to the mount of Olives, then from the mount of Olives up into heaven. So thus when God saw that they were not going to pay any attention to the Glory of the Lord, or turn back to Him, He withdrew His presence from the Temple...and it hasn't been there since. Even when Herod's temple was being built, God's Glory did NOT dwell there. Why? Because He had already blinded Israel to the fact that they needed a Savior and had already cast them aside.

BigD:
Jesus said in Matthew 15:24 "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Paul says in Romans 15:8 "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God to confirm the promises made to the fathers."

The promises to the Jewish fathers were for Israel as a nation.

The Law was given to the nation of Israel. Jesus fulfilled the Law. If Isreal was set aside as far back as you say, there would have been no law to fulfill.
 
Jemidon2004 posted

Why else would God allow the Pharisees and the Sadduccees to rule as a religious order claiming to talk to God. Simply because Israel had already been cast aside.

BigD:
Matthew 23:1 "Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do, but do not after their works; for they say, and do not."

Why would Jesus COMMAND the people and disciples to "observe and do" what the scribes and Pharisees required?

Jemidon2004 posted

There is no Scriptural evidence to support Israel being cast aside at the stoning of Stephen, i simply do not see it in Scripture anywhere. It had already happened when the Glory of the Lord left the Temple in Jerusalem and the fall of Israel as a nation. I discuss this in further detail with my study on Israel: Still God's Nation or Completely without Hope"

BigD:
Back in Genesis 11, at the Tower of Babel, God set the Gentiles aside. Then God raised up a people unto himself (Israel). To Israel God gave them their instructions in righteousness through the Civil, Moral and Ceremonial Laws of Moses.

There was a "middle wall of partition" between the Jew and Gentile. If a Gentile one wanted to follow the true and living God, that Gentile one had to become a Jew (proselyte) and place themselves under the Law.

In Matthew 10, we find that Jesus chose His 12 disciples. In vers 5 He commands them "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not. 6. BUT GO RATHER TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.

When Jesus Himself goes only to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel," and commands His disciples to go only to them, it surely doesn't look like Israel is in a "set aside" condition. Looks to me like the Gentiles are still "our side the gate." Jesus Himself refers to the Syrophenician woman (a Gentile) as a "dog."

Paul says of the Jews, in Romans 3:2 "...that unto them were committed the oracles of God." However, they, as a nation, rejected God the Father when they went "about to establish their own righteousness." They rejected God the Son when they demanded that He be crucified. They rejected God the Holy Spirit when they stoned Stephen, in Act 7, who was filled with the Holy Ghost.

It was after Isreal's rejection of the Third Person of the Trinity that God set Israel aside. God then raised up Saul/Paul, in Acts 9, to usher in the the dispensation of grace. Then God shows Peter in Acts 10 that the Gentile is no longer to be considered unclean. Why, because they are now on the same level as the set aside Gentiles. Paul in Romans 11:32 says: "For God hath concluded them all (Jews and Gentiles) in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."

Jemidon2004 posted

Another thing. You need to notice that there IS a gap between the 69th and 70th week. Notice that 69 weeks will occur and they will finish at Christ's Crucifixion. However, it shows that next the "people of the prince" shall come and the city will be destroyed and a flood will come. Many Biblical scholars and Historians will agree that this happened in 70 a.d. So it does show a gap between the 69th and 70th week. The timeline just doesn't line up. You have a gap between the Crucifixion of Christ and the covenant made by Anti-christ. According to what you're saying, the Tribulation started close to Christ's crucifixion and was interrupted...however if you say it was interrupted at Stephen's stoning, again the timeline doesn't line up. Also Peter is using Joel's prophecy as an EXAMPLE as to what was happening. He's not saying that the Tribulation period has occurred. Also, you have to distinguish what Peter is talking about. Is He talking about the Last days in reference to Israel, or the Last days in reference to the Church. Again, where does Stephen's stoning come into play. It seems that you are standing on one set of Scriptures in Acts. That's what it seems to me as the issue with Stephen is concerned. Sorry if my thoughts seem to be scattered. I'm trying to remember word for word what i wrote out last night, seeing as i'm at the library and I don't have my materials with me. Hope this is making any sense...i'll get back to you guys when i have my materials in front of me.

BigD:
Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finist the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophesy, and to anoint the most Holy."

"upon they people and upon thy holy city," It is upon the Jewish people and upon the city of Jerusalem; "to finish the transgression, and to  make an end of sins." It is the Jewish transgression and their sin of rejection that is to be brought to an end; " and to make reconciliation for iniquity," it is not the crucifixion of Christ that is the reconciliation, but rather the means by which the reconciliation was made. At His glorious appearing, at the end of the 70th week, our Lord, on the basis of His sacrifice at Calvary will "reconcile" his chosen people (Israel) unto Himself. (From the book "REVELATION" for the Advanced Student, by Jack D. Hastings.

The 70th week started at Pentecost (Acts 2:15-20). It was interrupted with the setting aside of Israel after the stoning of Stephen. Being I have posted a great deal on this, I don't thing I have to go through it again.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[BigD]

Yes, I do agree that there will be a tready of 7 years signed in Daniel 9.  However, Jesus Him self said, speaking of the Tribulation, in Matthew 24:22 "...for the elect's sake those days SHALL BE SHORTENED". Its in BigD's BIBLE. What does yours' say?

Is there anything that says that the "mystery anti-Christ" has to be in Acts 15-20. Isn't Peter quoting Joel, and the "mystery anti-Christ" isn't there either. Isn't Joel speaking of the Tribulation? I BELIEVE HE IS! If you don't believe it, PLEASE (I BEG YOU) tell me he isn't. If Peter is not speaking of the Tribulation in Acts 2:15-20, PLEASE (I BEG YOU) tell me he is in error. "THIS IS THAT" means "what is actually happening."

Like you said, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."  I can't even get anyone to explain to me, from Scripture, that Acts 2:15-20 isn't saying that the Tribulation has started. It it wasn't the Tribulation that started, then I am sure Peter would have used some other explanation.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!