the Passion

[JudgeNot]

A Christian is a Christian.  The church is Christ's Church.  Christ's Church is made up (now days) of many different denominations.  Different denominations of Protestants, different denominations of Catholicism, and folks who identify with neither or either.  Let me go out on a limb, here, and say that there are even folks who identify with Mormons and Jehovah’s witness’s, who TRULY have Christ in their hearts and are saved.

All this bickering, quite frankly, is annoying and (gasp!) un-Christian, (in my opinion).

You should be trying to learn more about the TRUE beliefs of one another and why they believe that way, rather than resorting condemnation.

I’m not naming names.  If the shoe fits…

I’m GUILTY!, are you?

[creationist]

Tqpix
You sound like me 8 years ago.
I was Greek Orthodox and went regularly to Church but chose to ignore the Mary worshiping and kissing of the icons and.. (there are too many things I ignored). One day I realised that Christianity had NOTHING to do with culture or tradition.
I thought, what would I say when I met my Maker.  “Sorry LORD, but I’m Greek” or “Sorry LORD but I was born a Greek Orthodox so I must die a Greek Orthodox”.
One Sunday I got up early and drove to my local Protestant Church and never looked back.
As for the crossing thing. I found that most people replaced prayer with the physical action of crossing. I don’t believe the act of crossing is of any benefit. In fact I believe it’s just another religious act.

[creationist]

[creationist]

The pope lets people refer to him as the Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Patriarch of the West, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Pontifex Maximus, The Pope, and The Holy Father.

Jesus said: "For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." [Luke 14:11] and "But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi." [Matthew 23:5-7]


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The pope has thousands of servants subordinate to himself called Cardinals, Archbishops, Bishops, Priests, Monks, and Nuns.

Jesus said: "Many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first." [Matthew 19:30] and "And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all." [Mark 10:44]


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The pope talks about peace and love and yet he has yet to reverse the blood thirsty decrees that his church put in place to sanction the murder of people who disagree with Catholicism.

Jesus said: "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." [Matthew 23:3] and "He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me." [Mark 7:6]


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The pope runs his own self-governed country called Vatican City that has its own secretary of state who meets with ambassadors from many nations.

Jesus said: "My kingdom is not of this world" [John 18:36].


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The pope says he is infallible in matters of faith and morals.

Jesus said: "There shall be false teachers among you" [2 Peter 2:1]. In the Bible God also says: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." [1John 1:8]


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The pope lives in an enormous palace in Rome.

Jesus said: "Foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath no where to lay his head." [Matthew 8:20]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pope controls immeasurable wealth that could be given to the poor.

Jesus said: "lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal" [Matthew 6:20]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pope gets a royal welcome from heads of state of almost all countries on earth.

Jesus said: "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets." [Luke 6:26]

[creationist]

Dear Mel Gibson, since it seems so important to show all graphic detail of Jesus suffering etc, please do some more movies! Especially about stories from the Old Testament. I always thought that the bible had some great sex'n'violence themes and that it had some great potential gothic-style visuals in it.

Some suggestions:

- When God strikes blasphemers with lightning! Please do show us the charcoaled bodies in detail.

- When the Jews raid heathen villages! Please do show us the crushing of heathen babies against the wall in slow motion.

- When Lot sleeps with his daughters! Please make a steamy sex scene. Just to show how disgusting it would be.

etc etc etc

And the funniest thing would be the conservatives NOT being enraged about all this sex and violence!!! Since it's written in the bible, it can't be bad ... can it?  

[Tibby]

Mary dressing like a nun? What? Don't you mean Mary dressing in proper attire for that time and place? Because she was dressed correctly. You bash Mel for doing things in the movie not in History or the bible, then you bash him for doing things that are in Both History and the bible!

The notion of crucifying Jesus over and over again does offend me? Good thing I don't know anyone who does it.  

[Psalm 119]

Tibby,

When a Catholic eats the wafer, (Eucharist) he is crucifying Jesus over and over again. They believe they are eating the actual body of Christ.

Tqpix,

You do seem very open to the gospel message of Jesus Christ, and I would like to talk to you further. Please use the Private messaging to write to me. I don't want to argue, but rather exhort you with Scripture.I do not subscribe to any particular denomination, but rather the whole counsel of God, through His Word.

Psalms 119

[Tibby]

I know that is what you think. It is good to know you such a high belief in the powers of Priests. A belief catholic Priests don't even hold. You are a little confused.Yes, just as the bible clearly states, the beard and wine becomes Jesus' blood and body. BUt, if you would read you bible, you would know Jesus died once for our sins. He cannot be "re-crucified." Is this HONESTLY what you think Catholics believe? No wonder you think we are evil.

Well, let me lay all your worry to rest, as a Preist in training, and inform you that Catholics do not believe Jesus can be "re-crucified" nor be we believe he is "re-crucified" every sunday morning.

Now, their may be a few who arn't very bright, and sometimes Protestants will talk them into believing this, and then talk them out of it. It is a common thing. Remimber when you attacked the Protestants:

Most Protestants don't read their Bibles enough to know truth from fiction. Most will readily accept a few lies and then call it "artistic license" ( a little leaven will ruin the whole lump)

Well, most Catholics, many who DO read their bible, don't read the Catecism enough to know truth from fiction when it comes to "Catholicism."

[Symphony]

Uncle Tibby, don't you think creationist above makes some  pretty good arguments.  That's quite a comparative list creationist leavfes there, and not very flattering?

And Psalm 119 (or 911--hehe --as Tibby calls her/him--hehe).


But getting back to the Passion movie; I think we're straining out a gnat here.   Sure, okay, it's a heavily "catholic" film.  Okay.

But heck, it's portraying, apparently, fairly accurately a significant part of the Gospel message.

AND, it's so far surpassing, or at least, approaching, previous box office records(which means it's getting "seen"--not just that it is "making money").

What if it just keeps on playing?   What if people just keep on going back to see it.

What if this is one last final, world-wide(it's due to start showing, I believe, in Europe next week--and France has already forbidden it, as of one week ago) "blast" God is making, one last chance, for everyone, to see in the most vivid of detail(without actually being there), what must have been done to Jesus??

True, Mel is human.  Okay, he's Catholic--or some form thereof.

But God is alwyas using the ignoble.  Indeed, that is what we ALL are.

What if the movie just keeps on showing, right up to the last trump, now??

This is the first time in history, barring such other films in recent years(recent compared to history) as The Robe, or many other Jesus films, that you can go literaly to a neighborhood performance and see first hand, in all its detail, what was done.  And some people are going a second time.

[Tibby]

Uncle Tibby, don't you think creationist above makes some  pretty good arguments.  That's quite a comparative list creationist leavfes there, and not very flattering?

No, I do not. Nothing I have yet to read from him is what I would call a "pretty good argument." If he would have said something about the fact that Jesus was nailed in his palms (as use Catholics use) as oppose to the wrist, as history tell us, then I would give him that, but he did not. He has yet to make a good point. He is pulling all these silly ideas from Egyptian myth and Nun's attire. I honestly don't know where he gets this stuff. Give me one good point I have not shoot down yet, maybe I skipped over something.

And Psalm 119 (or 911--hehe --as Tibby calls her/him--hehe).


But getting back to the Passion movie; I think we're straining out a gnat here.   Sure, okay, it's a heavily "catholic" film.  Okay.

But heck, it's portraying, apparently, fairly accurately a significant part of the Gospel message.

AND, it's so far surpassing, or at least, approaching, previous box office records(which means it's getting "seen"--not just that it is "making money").

What if it just keeps on playing?   What if people just keep on going back to see it.

What if this is one last final, world-wide(it's due to start showing, I believe, in Europe next week--and France has already forbidden it, as of one week ago) "blast" God is making, one last chance, for everyone, to see in the most vivid of detail(without actually being there), what must have been done to Jesus??

True, Mel is human.  Okay, he's Catholic--or some form thereof.

But God is alwyas using the ignoble.  Indeed, that is what we ALL are.

What if the movie just keeps on showing, right up to the last trump, now??

This is the first time in history, barring such other films in recent years(recent compared to history) as The Robe, or many other Jesus films, that you can go literaly to a neighborhood performance and see first hand, in all its detail, what was done.  And some people are going a second time.

[creationist]

Dear Fr Tibby
Please shoot this down again. A Protestant built my computer and sometimes it deletes inappropriate posts.

The pope lets people refer to him as the Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Patriarch of the West, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Pontifex Maximus, The Pope, and The Holy Father.

Jesus said: "For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." [Luke 14:11] and "But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi." [Matthew 23:5-7]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pope has thousands of servants subordinate to himself called Cardinals, Archbishops, Bishops, Priests, Monks, and Nuns.

Jesus said: "Many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first." [Matthew 19:30] and "And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all." [Mark 10:44]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pope talks about peace and love and yet he has yet to reverse the blood thirsty decrees that his church put in place to sanction the murder of people who disagree with Catholicism.

Jesus said: "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." [Matthew 23:3] and "He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me." [Mark 7:6]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pope runs his own self-governed country called Vatican City that has its own secretary of state who meets with ambassadors from many nations.

Jesus said: "My kingdom is not of this world" [John 18:36].


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pope says he is infallible in matters of faith and morals.

Jesus said: "There shall be false teachers among you" [2 Peter 2:1]. In the Bible God also says: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." [1John 1:8]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pope lives in an enormous palace in Rome.

Jesus said: "Foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath no where to lay his head." [Matthew 8:20]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pope controls immeasurable wealth that could be given to the poor.

Jesus said: "lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal" [Matthew 6:20]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pope gets a royal welcome from heads of state of almost all countries on earth.

Jesus said: "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets." [Luke 6:26]

[creationist]

I'm still waiting!

[foreknown]

Deu 5:8  Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

Exo 20:4  Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

http://www.letgodbetrue.com/TodaysWorld/passion.htm

http://www.lazarusunbound.com/bunk_thepassion.html

http://home.att.net/~sovereigngrace/menace.html (This was written over 30 years ago)

In Christ,

Alex

[Psalm 119]

Foreknown,

Thank you for the links. I had read the article on Let God be True several nights ago. If someone can read this and disregard the warning; shame on them.

I'm beginning to wonder was the Reformation all in vain? Have Protestants totally lost all sense of history?

The Reformers called the Pope the anti-Christ. Why are Protestants now embracing Catholic theology?

As Mel Gibson said in his own words, he was suprized at all the evangelicals interest in the movie, since it was so "Marian".

Maybe this is just part of the great falling away?

Psalm 119

[Tibby]

Dear Fr Tibby
Please shoot this down again. A Protestant built my computer and sometimes it deletes inappropriate posts.

Why? This has nothing to do with the Movie. It is just a bunch of foolishness you made up.

The pope lets people refer to him as the Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Patriarch of the West, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Pontifex Maximus, The Pope, and The Holy Father.

Jesus said: "For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." [Luke 14:11] and "But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi." [Matthew 23:5-7]

As a Catholic, I can honestly tell you no one exalts the Pope above Jesus.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pope has thousands of servants subordinate to himself called Cardinals, Archbishops, Bishops, Priests, Monks, and Nuns.

Jesus said: "Many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first." [Matthew 19:30] and "And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all." [Mark 10:44]

Jesus also had follower who did as they where told. So did Paul and Peter. It is called proper structure. Everyone has to answer to someone. We are one body, not a bunch of Indepented Churches doing whatever they want. We are meant to be one body.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pope talks about peace and love and yet he has yet to reverse the blood thirsty decrees that his church put in place to sanction the murder of people who disagree with Catholicism.

Jesus said: "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." [Matthew 23:3] and "He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me." [Mark 7:6]

What are you talking about?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pope runs his own self-governed country called Vatican City that has its own secretary of state who meets with ambassadors from many nations.

Jesus said: "My kingdom is not of this world" [John 18:36].

It is true, we are not of this world, but a wise man once said "We are in the world, be not of the world." We are still in the world.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pope says he is infallible in matters of faith and morals.

Jesus said: "There shall be false teachers among you" [2 Peter 2:1]. In the Bible God also says: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." [1John 1:8]

Wow. Good point. Good thing we Catholics don't believe the pope is sinless.   This is a common misconception. No one believes the Pope is sinless, but when it comes to the creation of dogma, he can't make a false one.

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The pope lives in an enormous palace in Rome.

Jesus said: "Foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath no where to lay his head." [Matthew 8:20]

Are you saying it is a sin to live in houses now? Is that what you are saying?

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The pope controls immeasurable wealth that could be given to the poor.

Jesus said: "lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal" [Matthew 6:20]

The Catholic church: (a) has been hit hard by the money problems facing the world (b) DOES gove most of the "immeasurable wealth" to the poor.

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The pope gets a royal welcome from heads of state of almost all countries on earth.

Jesus said: "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets." [Luke 6:26]

Which he uses to further the message of the gospel. What is wrong with getting gifts? Is accepting a gift a SIN now?