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I just saw “the Passion”. I thought Mell’s Catholicism showed through it.
Everyone called Mary “mother”.
 Did you guys also notice how much strength The Lord Christ got whenever Mary turned up and how calm and composed she was even though her son was been beaten? Makes me feel like saying a few “Hail Marys”
I just wish there was a message. All I got out of it was that He had been beaten severely. But why? And for whom?

I won’t go on (Maybe later), what I really am confused over is; who was that ugly infant (midget) in Satan’s arms when Christ died?

Ah well! At least it’s got people thinking about Christ again. Even atheists are talking.

Creationist,

I'm glad to see someone is having some qualms about The Passion of Christ.

I saw the PAX special on the making of The Passion ,and several things did not set right with me, i.e. Satan in the Garden of Gethsemane (which did not happen, quite the contrary; God sent an angel to minister to Jesus). Also the strong Catholic influence.

So I have been doing a little digging and it's not pretty.

Mel Gibson used several sources to make the movie.

1) Diaries of St. Anne Catherine Emmerich (1774-1824)a "patron saint" of the Catholic Church  who had "visions of Christ's death and Satan (that's where the part about Satan in the movie was adapted). Emmerich was a German Catholic nun, mystic, and a stigmatist ( she claimed to carry around Christ's wounds in her hands and feet) The movie was primarily based on her book, "The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jeseus Christ"

2) "The Mystical City of God" by St. Mary Agreda (mystical city given to denote "The blessed virgin Mary")(also the "sacred heart")

3) The New Testament Gospel accounts ( Matthew, Mark, Luke, John)

Also during my research, I did a little checking on some of the cast members of The Passion (I'm not finished yet) This is the startling information that I have found so far.

Monica Bellucci (Mary Magdalene) played a topless vampire in Bran Stoke's "Dracula" in 2000, she has also played in the Matrix series (very vile) Other information about Monica include nude pictures on the internet (which I couldn't get due to the block on my server)

Rosalinda Celentano (Satan) played in an Italian Movie entitled: Poco piu' di un annofa (2003) in english it is called "Tale of a gay porn star", aka as "Diary of a male porn star"

Claudia Gerini (Claudia) played in a movie "Don't Move" (non ti muovere) which is pornographic. She also played a lesbian rock star in the movie La Vespa E La Regina (2000)

Why has no shepherd of the flock of Jesus Christ done any research on The Passion and it's cast members? Has Satan come as an angel of light to blind the masses? Can Catholicism and Christianity mix?

Yes, some may come to the knowledge of Christ in spite of the overt Catholic theme, and the porno stars. However, knowning what I know now, there is no way I will be participating.

Psalm 119

Thank you, Psalm, creationist.

I think it's like any other tool by which the Gospel can come to man--perhaps like the Catholic church itself--a mixed bag.  Something pure in the hands of the impure.

Jesus has every kind of debauchery or human indulgence in his earthly lineage; not very savory.  


I haven't seen it yet.  There's a separate thread here, under Movies, that's been running for some months.

These are comments that others have made on a Christian site.(The Peter they are refering to is me) :-[






Absolutely Peter. Imagine a movie with no plot or story development, no character development, full of 'R' rated violence becoming a box office hit.
And who goes to see it? Talk about 'check your brain at the door'. How embarrassing.
And at the fourth station, Jesus says to mary’ “See Mother, I make all things new.” I'm thinking ya right, unsaved people are going to see that. 2000 years later, things are new alright.
I think it is a cloud without water.



Good observations Peter- I hope everyone that sees, or has seen, this movie does so with a critical eye. It's certainlly not unlike Satan to attempt to use "something that seems good" to actually hurt, divide, or destroy.
I cant help but be reminded that it was Satan's minor twist on Scripture that he presented to Jesus, attemting to cause Jesus to fall or sin.
Too, the fall of man came by a simple "did" that he added to God's word.
Each one of us ought to be aware of this whenever anything seems really good, but strays from the exact Word of God. It's not to say that there wont be some good done, but we cant "thank the movie" or "glorify mel gibson". Anyone drawn to God is by the hand of God alone!

---------------


If you know very much about Catholicism that is what it was all the way through. It had most of the Stations of the Cross, including Veronica getting the image of Jesus' face on the cloth. (Look closely at the cloth as it dangles from her hand at the end of the seen.)

Here is a good commentary by Steve Camp (Christian singer and song writer) who has watched The Passion three times. He delves into the Catholicism.

When you click on the link, you then have to go to the left column and click on "The Mass" appeal of "The Passion"

http://www.stevecamp.org/page.php?page=template1.php&pageid=980fa0a91de3dfc9f21d907221ad23ee

Psalm 119

Thanks for the link, Psalm 119!  :)

In the link, this was asked:


Can someone answer this, please?  Thank you in advance.

I believe the verses where in Isaiah.

Mary WAS called Mother by the Earth Church, James especially. It was a name of respect.

I think the infant was just put there to make Satan look creepy. I’ve heard some silly theories like “It’s the anti-Christ.” I think it was just an other Demon.

You didn’t have to do much “digging” to find out about Mel Gibson used the writings of Anne Catherine Emmerich. I though to was common knowledge. I’ll be don’t my own research about the rest of what you said. You do realize no one would be looking into it all if Mel Gibson was Baptist. ::)

If Mel were a Baptist at least half the movie would have centered on the Resurrection.
 ;D

The prophecy of Jesus is found in Isaiah chapters 52-53. There are many more Old Testament references to Jesus. Actually the Isaiah prophecies were made c. 700 years prior to Christ's birth.

Last night I did find out that another cast member has been involved in pornographic movies (this now makes 4). Sergio Rubini who played Dismas in the Passion, also played in a dark comedy (demonic) called Soul Mate in 2002, he also played in Amnesia (2002) that has a pornography and sodomy theme.These are both Italian films.

Mel Gibson wanted to use "unknowns" in the Passion. Well they are becoming known and it's not pretty. Of course, this is just a movie, right! And to most, character doesn't matter.

If one believes that you can be Catholic and Christian, this movie will not offend you. If you believe it's ok to take away and add to the Scriptures (in violation of Rev. 22:18-19) then this film will not offend you.

Personally, I believe Satan is laughing.....He has come as an angel of light . He has distorted the gospel (with the images of Satan, children turning into demons etc)  and many professing Christians are willing to accept these inacurracies in order to "promote the gospel".

I do hope and pray in spite of the Catholicism and Demonology, contained in The Passion, that there will be those who will realize the penalty Christ paid on the cross for our sins. I pray they will repent and believe in the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Psalm 119

 Someone from another forum pointed this out.


Mary’s’ words at the cross were “bone of my bone, heart of my heart, let me die with you.” Sounds like co-redeemer to me. But think of it in the context of the garden of Eden. Adam uses similar words about Eve, and then takes the fruit from her hand and eats it in order that he will die with her. Now this 'mary' the 'mother of god', wants to be wife of her son which the whole basis of Isis and Osiris of Egypt.
Pretty sick stuff.

Thanks for your reply, Psalm 119!  :)

I know about Isaiah 53, so I was actually looking for passages outside of the book of Isaiah.  I originally thought that chapter only gave a description of Jesus, but I read it again earlier this morning, and it did prophecize about his crucifixion.

Yeah, that has to be the sickest thing I've heard all week. Maybe you should get some help. ::)

Preferably not from a Freudian. ;D


Judgenot- Good point, and Jesus would have turned to the camera and lead the theater in the sinner’s prayer.  ;D

If Mel were a Baptist at least half the movie would have centered on the Resurrection.
 


No, JudgeNot.

If Mel were a Baptist, he would still be arguing over who's going to bring the potato salad.

    ;)

Don't forget the fried chicken!!! Mmmmmm!  ;D

Did you also notice the cups hanging of Christ’s and the thieves crosses? What do you suppose that symbolised?

I noticed that, too. I thought it is part of the historical accuracy or it. I guess the Roman's put cups on the crosses for some reason of another. But, that is just a guess. Anyone bother to look it up?

Ha Ha Ha :)

What was the very last glimpse the audience gets of Jesus in the movie?

A newly resurrected Jesus, coming out of the tomb, with holes in his hand, the shot focusing on the holes. Why do you ask? Did you not see it?

A newly resurrected Jesus, coming out of the tomb, with holes in his hand, the shot focusing on the holes. Then as Jesus walks out, the camera doesn't move with Him so you get a quick glipse of the side of His butt.

 Why do you ask? Did you not see it?  :)

the camera doesn't move with Him so you get a quick glipse of the side of His butt.

What, you think Jesus was resurrected with clothes on?

Cmon!
Just look at all the negative posts. Look at the criticism. How can a movie about our Christ have so so many errors and heretical messages? Do you honestly believe that it was also appropriate to show Christ’s rump?

Gen 3: 10  He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
Rev16: 15  "Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed."

What errors? The only error I saw was where they nailed him. What negative posts? The ones you have posted are the side of a bare butt? And an Actor in a flesh colored body suit isn’t my idea of an inappropriate image. What heretical messages? YOU are the one fantasying about Mary and Jesus being involved romantically, not Mel Gibson.

Your dislike of it doesn’t have anything to do with the accuracy. It has nothing to do with the flesh colored body suit. You were posting negative posts about "the Passion" before you even saw the movie. You dislike the movie because Mel Gibson is a Catholic. Just admit it; it’s pretty clear that this is the case. You are digging for reasons to hate to movie, when the honest truth is, it isn’t the movie have a distaste for it, it is the Catholic denomination.

So YOU must be the defender of the Catholic cult  faith.
Try reading with your eyes open before you start hurling abuse at people.
Tell us why he used the Diaries of St. Anne Catherine Emmerich?
Why was Mary called mother through the whole movie?
Why didn’t it follow the Biblical account? Why was there no message?
It’s funny how the “The Gospel of John” hasn’t received so much time in the media, even though it is 100% word for word strait out of the gospel of John. Yet the Catholic propaganda that Mad Max Mell produced has had so much time. You think Satan may have had a hand in its promotion?

The Gospel of John:
The Greatest Story Ever Told
by Dr. Ted Baehr

The movie, The Gospel of John, is the greatest story ever told in the most powerful language of the 21st century. It is an inspired presentation of the Truth that will delight people of all ages.
Several years ago, the Visual Bible undertook the task of translating the Bible word for word, book for book, into the movie idiom of Hollywood. The first attempt was the Gospel of Matthew, which was a worthwhile production, though produced on a low budget. The next was Acts of the Apostles, which was again hobbled by a low budget.
Now, Visual Bible has been refinanced and has produced a spectacular, well-directed, well-acted, word for word version of The Gospel of John. In fact, the movie was so good that the Toronto International Film Festival selected The Gospel of John to have its world premiere at its event last fall.
Although nothing is added to the Biblical text or taken away from it, the scriptwriter, John Goldsmith, a committed Christian, has done a superb job of staging and setting the story in a way that is constantly compelling. The lead is a Shakespearean actor, Henry Ian Cusick, who gives an authoritative and yet warm and endearing portrayal of our Lord Jesus. The casting is much more Middle Eastern than any of the movies that have gone before, although not all the actors are Semitic. The historical details are accurate and faithful. In places where there could be debates, the filmmakers have wisely chosen to go with the authoritative and more literal and orthodox interpretation.
The Gospel of John brings John's Gospel alive in a powerful, profound way. For the first time in this reviewer's memory, it becomes clear why Jesus and his Jewish followers were at odds with the Jewish establishment. Watching Jesus throw down the gauntlet of His Messianic claims in the face of the Pharisees and Sadducees will clearly call people into the Kingdom of God. There is no ambiguity here. This is Jesus, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father, who is the Messiah.
There are several other Jesus films out. They all have their wonderful strengths, but what The Gospel of John does is portray the Gospel in an unadulterated fashion and in the process clearly shows the victory of the Resurrection. For the first 300 years of the Church, all the pictures of Jesus were of the resurrected Christ. Most recent movies have concentrated on the cross. Some, like Godspell and Jesus Christ Superstar don't even have a resurrection, while, with Franco Zeffirelli's wonderful Jesus of Nazareth , the resurrection is an afterthought. Here, at last, is the full Gospel account, with Jesus appearing before the disciples, showing his wounds to Thomas, eating bread and fish with the disciples, and sending them into all the world to preach the Good News of the Kingdom of God.
All this being said, it is important to recognize that this is the full Gospel and, therefore, it does not follow the dramatic formula of Hollywood. It is powerful and dramatic, but not structured in an Aristotelian fashion. Furthermore, as with any rendition of the life of Christ, there will be people who see Jesus differently, or have different images of the disciples. This is a tour de force of casting, but there are those who would have cast it differently, especially some of the minor roles. Actually, the only real negative is the opening legend which includes a reference to the date of the writing of The Gospel of John in a way that might alienate knowledgeable scholars and Christians. This should be reconsidered.
Also, as with any portrayal of Christ, one's image from reading the book will be different from what one sees on the screen. For one, I was enthralled by the cleansing of the Temple. It was totally different than I had expected. Jesus' first challenge to the Pharisees is extremely intense and not as sugarcoated as is normally the case.
Finally, the intensity and the pacing in The Gospel of John works extremely well. A movie is the sum of its parts, and all of the parts come together to produce a magnificent whole. There is no doubt that this movie will stand the test of time, and all those involved are to be commended: Bravo!

Were they focuseing on his rump or the burily cloth?

Because her visions are actuate



I already told you, she was known as that by the Early Church.



He did follow the biblical account. And he did have a message. The message of the cross is foolishness for those who are perishing.



I think God had a hand in its promotion. I think Passions has more media attention because it is made better then "the Gospel of John" and it has bigger names attached to it. And it is more "controversial." It has nothing to do with anything else, the media loves Controversy, and passions gave them that.

I thought for once we as Christians would be able to put our asinine bickering aside and do something for once. It was looking that way for a little bit, now we have started back on each other. Give it a rest. You don't have to hate us ALL the time.

Stop acting like such a child, creationist.

HERETIC!
You believe that Mell Drink Smoke Mad Max Gibsons Catholic movie is “actuate” and the Visual Bible’s version (Written by John) is not?
Face it. Your Catholic versions of Christ’s reign on earth are different to the Biblical versions.

       Creationist;
      Mel Gibson Is Catholic, a fact that has been knowen for years, so were you so dumb as to think that it wouldn't come through in the movie. It was one mans view, John shows another, Matt. another and so on.
       As for Satin in the garden, I positive that He tempted Christ all through Jesus Earthly Ministry, after all if he coused Jesus tp stumble then he wins, but Satin Lost.
       As for your complaining about the last view of Cnrist I agree with Sapphire,in what I see of you , your just complaining to hear your self talk and wine, how about some cheese to go with the Wine.
       As for the former porn stars in the movie, Christ came to provide Forgiveness sinners not the perfect, I'm glad that Jesus did, but you sound like the pharisees.

       Matthew 9
9   And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.
10   And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
11   And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
12   But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
13   But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

 ;D ;D ;D   I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one to see that Hes complaining to hear himself talk, or in this case Wine.

"And Jesus answered and said to them; take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name saying,"I am the Christ" and will deceive many."  Matt 24:4-5

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons."  I Tim 4:1

"For the time will come WHEN THEY WILL NOT ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers, and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." 2 Tim 4:3-4

"Be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary the devil walks about like a a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. RESIST HIM STEADFAST IN THE FAITH, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world."  I Peter 5:8-9

"And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light." 2 Cor. 11:15

Fact:Anne Katherine Emmerich a Catholic nun, mystic, stigmatist wrote the "screenplay" of the Passion. Mel Gibson carries a "relic" of hers ( a piece of cloth) in his pocket.Her "unbiblical visions" of satan in the garden are not from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John

Fact: Most Protestants don't read their Bibles enough to know truth from fiction. Most will readily accept a few lies and then call it "artistic license" ( a little leaven will ruin the whole lump)

Fact: While dozens of Pastors are taking their congregations in Portland, Oregon to see the Passion. Dozens of homosexuals are obtaining "marriage licenses", and not one pastor is present to protest.

Fact:We are living in the most deceptive time in American history.

Fact: God will not be mocked. He will respond to America's moral crisis, as He did with Sodoms.

Awake Awake to Righteousness!

Psalm 119

Amen.  Well said.

tqpix,

thanks!

Here is a good link for reviews on The Passion.


http://acts413.org/passion.htm

Peter had no problem giving people a piece of clothing. And she did not "write the screen play." Mel Gibson did use some of her writing, but that we the get more filler for the parts the Gospels left out. You know, the four Gospels don't say word for word Jesus was nailed to the cross. And the Four Gospels disagree. One says He had a red clothes, the other says it was Purple. Of course, it is easy to confuse these colors with bad lighting and all the blood and sweat, but what do you want Mel to do? Alternate from red to purple ever once in a while? Make it purple and red stripes?

Let me ask you this: If you were a film maker, what would you have done? Red or purple? Either way, you would contradict scripture, so what
 would you do it?



I hope the protestants AT LEAST know the story of Jesus and how he died. If most protestants don't know enough about the bible to know how Jesus died, then I think you need to focus your resources on teaching your people, not attacking Catholics. Most Catholics, even the posers, at least know the story Jesus' death. You are sounding anti-Protestant, now. I spent most of my life as a Protestant, and I can safely say that most, if not all of them/us, know the story of Jesus' death.



Portland, Oregon? Now there is a real hotbed of homosexuality. No one protested Homosexual Marraige hear in East Texas, either. The Christians in SF, Cali protested. WHO are we in Oregon and Texas going to protest AGAINST? At most, 2% of the Country are homosexuals. Meanwhile, the vast majority of the country are Christians. Protestant Christians, who YOU claim are ignorant of their own beliefs!!!



Hear comes the "days of Noah" speech. Listen, as long as people like you and me are going to stand up for what is right, we will not have to worry about this. As you said:

1Corinthians 2:14.
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned"

2 Corinthians 4:4
4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Good verses. To bad they don't further the discussion in any way.

YOU and the Mells of this world are the “natural” men who prefer the writings of men/women rather than those of GOD because you are spiritually discerned.

The god of this world hath blinded your minds.

I bet you would be the first to jump up and down when SDAs quote Ellen White.(No. I'm not an SDA) :P

I pray that the Holy Spirit will one-day shine on you so you can see the truth through all these lies.

PSALM 119.
I neglected to congratulate you on your previous posts.
Keep the GOOD work up brother.

GOD Bless.

YOU and the Palsm 911's of this world are the "hateful" men who prefer to bash fellow Christians (both Catholic and Protestant) who don't agree with you on every single issue, then to use your time for more productive things.

The god of your own little world hath blinded your minds.

SDAs? Who?

I pray that the Holy Spirit will one-day shine on those around you so they can see the truth through all your lies.

Tibby,

NEWS FLASH.....one cannot be a Catholic and a Christian!

One cannot be an idolater and enter the kingdom of God.

Psalm 119


btw, no one bashed any "Christian" unless you call reciting Scripture  "bashing".

So much love. ::) No wonder Catholics stay Catholic when you talk to them. You approch people like that, all you do is turn them away.

So far, you guys have shown the attitude that everyone (Catholic and Protestant alike) is stupid because they don't see things the way you do.

Even if you did have a valid point, no one would be able to hear it through the offencive way you confront them.

Tibby,

I have a number of Christian friends who have come out of the Catholic Church and they are the ones that are the most discerning about the movie The Passion. They are the ones who pick up on the Catholicism in the movie. Such as Mary dressing like a nun, and being referrred to as "Mother" by the disciples. Protestants who were once Catholics, and have repented of their idolatry ( Mary worship) are some of the harshest critics of the movie.

Mel Gibson and James Caviezel (Jesus) participated in The Mass every day together while making the movie. On the days that James didn't attend Mass he had the Eucharist brought to him on the set. Let me ask you, "does the notion of crucifying Jesus over and over again ( as in the Mass) offend you? It does me. And it should offend every believer in Jesus Christ. For Christ DIED ONCE FOR SINS.

Here is a link that may enlighten you more on the subject. These are a group of pastors who will not see, or have seen and will not recommend the movie. There is a lot of background information to the "why". Please take the time to read these articles, and mostly search the Scriptures for the truth. Jesus will not share His glory with anyone else.

www.acts413.org/passion

Psalms 119

I don't agree with this quote.  One CAN be a Catholic and a Christian!  I am one!

I don't, however, follow many of the Catholic teachings like

• Holding the apocrypha to be canon
• Believing the seven deadly sins to be deadly (one should avoided them, but they're not deadly)
• Praying to the "Virgin" Mary (notice the word "Virgin" is in quotation marks--Jesus had siblings; there's no way Mary could've ben a virgin when she left this world)
• Believing in purgatory (if it's not in the Bible, I'm not going to believe in it).

I also don't agree with many of the actions of the Catholic church:

• Calling priests "Father" (Matthew 23:9--And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.)
• Priests and nuns not being able to marry (1 Corinthians 7:2--Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.).

I do, however, do the sign of the cross--the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, Amen--before and after each prayer.

tqpix,

With all due respect, if you do not believe in such things ,why are you still a Catholic? What binds you to the Catholic Church?

As you may know Mel Gibson is pre-Vatican II. He is a staunch Mary worshipper ( along with James Caviziel). You and him would not see eye to eye theologically. I do realize Mel is in the minority among other practicing Catholics.

My desire is not to offend you, but to ask some honest questions.


Psalm 119

I wasn't offended.  :)

I was raised Catholic by both my parents (they're both Catholics), but we don't really observe many of the Catholic traditions (I didn't know what lent was until I was in my late teens, early twenties).

I went to a Protestant church once, because my mom encouraged me to after my aunt's mom (who is Protestant) invited me and my brother to go.  I reminded her that this was a Protestant church and not a Catholic church, and she said that they're all the same.

I went but didn't feel comfortable being there.  For one thing, they didn't do the sign of the cross before and after every prayer.  I felt that this was somehow disrespectful to the LORD--probably because I was so used to doing it.

Even though I don't agree with most of its teachings, I prefer going to a Catholic church, because that is what I'm used to.  When the pastor is going to preach about the apocrypha, purgatory, etc., I just ignore it.

A Christian is a Christian.  The church is Christ's Church.  Christ's Church is made up (now days) of many different denominations.  Different denominations of Protestants, different denominations of Catholicism, and folks who identify with neither or either.  Let me go out on a limb, here, and say that there are even folks who identify with Mormons and Jehovah’s witness’s, who TRULY have Christ in their hearts and are saved.

All this bickering, quite frankly, is annoying and (gasp!) un-Christian, (in my opinion).

You should be trying to learn more about the TRUE beliefs of one another and why they believe that way, rather than resorting condemnation.

I’m not naming names.  If the shoe fits…

I’m GUILTY!, are you?

Tqpix
You sound like me 8 years ago.
I was Greek Orthodox and went regularly to Church but chose to ignore the Mary worshiping and kissing of the icons and.. (there are too many things I ignored). One day I realised that Christianity had NOTHING to do with culture or tradition.
I thought, what would I say when I met my Maker.  “Sorry LORD, but I’m Greek” or “Sorry LORD but I was born a Greek Orthodox so I must die a Greek Orthodox”.
One Sunday I got up early and drove to my local Protestant Church and never looked back.
As for the crossing thing. I found that most people replaced prayer with the physical action of crossing. I don’t believe the act of crossing is of any benefit. In fact I believe it’s just another religious act.

(http://www.acts413.org/images/pope_koran.jpg)

The pope lets people refer to him as the Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Patriarch of the West, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Pontifex Maximus, The Pope, and The Holy Father.

Jesus said: "For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." [Luke 14:11] and "But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi." [Matthew 23:5-7]


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The pope has thousands of servants subordinate to himself called Cardinals, Archbishops, Bishops, Priests, Monks, and Nuns.

Jesus said: "Many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first." [Matthew 19:30] and "And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all." [Mark 10:44]


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The pope talks about peace and love and yet he has yet to reverse the blood thirsty decrees that his church put in place to sanction the murder of people who disagree with Catholicism.

Jesus said: "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." [Matthew 23:3] and "He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me." [Mark 7:6]


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The pope runs his own self-governed country called Vatican City that has its own secretary of state who meets with ambassadors from many nations.

Jesus said: "My kingdom is not of this world" [John 18:36].


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The pope says he is infallible in matters of faith and morals.

Jesus said: "There shall be false teachers among you" [2 Peter 2:1]. In the Bible God also says: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." [1John 1:8]


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The pope lives in an enormous palace in Rome.

Jesus said: "Foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath no where to lay his head." [Matthew 8:20]


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The pope controls immeasurable wealth that could be given to the poor.

Jesus said: "lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal" [Matthew 6:20]


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The pope gets a royal welcome from heads of state of almost all countries on earth.

Jesus said: "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets." [Luke 6:26]

Dear Mel Gibson, since it seems so important to show all graphic detail of Jesus suffering etc, please do some more movies! Especially about stories from the Old Testament. I always thought that the bible had some great sex'n'violence themes and that it had some great potential gothic-style visuals in it.

Some suggestions:

- When God strikes blasphemers with lightning! Please do show us the charcoaled bodies in detail.

- When the Jews raid heathen villages! Please do show us the crushing of heathen babies against the wall in slow motion.

- When Lot sleeps with his daughters! Please make a steamy sex scene. Just to show how disgusting it would be.

etc etc etc

And the funniest thing would be the conservatives NOT being enraged about all this sex and violence!!! Since it's written in the bible, it can't be bad ... can it?  

Mary dressing like a nun? What? Don't you mean Mary dressing in proper attire for that time and place? Because she was dressed correctly. You bash Mel for doing things in the movie not in History or the bible, then you bash him for doing things that are in Both History and the bible!

The notion of crucifying Jesus over and over again does offend me? Good thing I don't know anyone who does it.  ::)

Tibby,

When a Catholic eats the wafer, (Eucharist) he is crucifying Jesus over and over again. They believe they are eating the actual body of Christ.

Tqpix,

You do seem very open to the gospel message of Jesus Christ, and I would like to talk to you further. Please use the Private messaging to write to me. I don't want to argue, but rather exhort you with Scripture.I do not subscribe to any particular denomination, but rather the whole counsel of God, through His Word.

Psalms 119

I know that is what you think. It is good to know you such a high belief in the powers of Priests. A belief catholic Priests don't even hold. You are a little confused.Yes, just as the bible clearly states, the beard and wine becomes Jesus' blood and body. BUt, if you would read you bible, you would know Jesus died once for our sins. He cannot be "re-crucified." Is this HONESTLY what you think Catholics believe? No wonder you think we are evil.

Well, let me lay all your worry to rest, as a Preist in training, and inform you that Catholics do not believe Jesus can be "re-crucified" nor be we believe he is "re-crucified" every sunday morning.

Now, their may be a few who arn't very bright, and sometimes Protestants will talk them into believing this, and then talk them out of it. It is a common thing. Remimber when you attacked the Protestants:


Well, most Catholics, many who DO read their bible, don't read the Catecism enough to know truth from fiction when it comes to "Catholicism."

Uncle Tibby, don't you think creationist above makes some  pretty good arguments.  That's quite a comparative list creationist leavfes there, and not very flattering?

And Psalm 119 (or 911--hehe :-X--as Tibby calls her/him--hehe).


But getting back to the Passion movie; I think we're straining out a gnat here.   Sure, okay, it's a heavily "catholic" film.  Okay.

But heck, it's portraying, apparently, fairly accurately a significant part of the Gospel message.

AND, it's so far surpassing, or at least, approaching, previous box office records(which means it's getting "seen"--not just that it is "making money").

What if it just keeps on playing?   What if people just keep on going back to see it.

What if this is one last final, world-wide(it's due to start showing, I believe, in Europe next week--and France has already forbidden it, as of one week ago) "blast" God is making, one last chance, for everyone, to see in the most vivid of detail(without actually being there), what must have been done to Jesus??

True, Mel is human.  Okay, he's Catholic--or some form thereof.

But God is alwyas using the ignoble.  Indeed, that is what we ALL are.

What if the movie just keeps on showing, right up to the last trump, now??

This is the first time in history, barring such other films in recent years(recent compared to history) as The Robe, or many other Jesus films, that you can go literaly to a neighborhood performance and see first hand, in all its detail, what was done.  And some people are going a second time.

No, I do not. Nothing I have yet to read from him is what I would call a "pretty good argument." If he would have said something about the fact that Jesus was nailed in his palms (as use Catholics use) as oppose to the wrist, as history tell us, then I would give him that, but he did not. He has yet to make a good point. He is pulling all these silly ideas from Egyptian myth and Nun's attire. I honestly don't know where he gets this stuff. Give me one good point I have not shoot down yet, maybe I skipped over something.

Dear Fr Tibby
Please shoot this down again. A Protestant built my computer and sometimes it deletes inappropriate posts.

I'm still waiting!

(http://friendpages.com/pages/travel/juan61/photo15.jpg)

Deu 5:8  Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

Exo 20:4  Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

http://www.letgodbetrue.com/TodaysWorld/passion.htm

http://www.lazarusunbound.com/bunk_thepassion.html

http://home.att.net/~sovereigngrace/menace.html (This was written over 30 years ago)

In Christ,

Alex

Foreknown,

Thank you for the links. I had read the article on Let God be True several nights ago. If someone can read this and disregard the warning; shame on them.

I'm beginning to wonder was the Reformation all in vain? Have Protestants totally lost all sense of history?

The Reformers called the Pope the anti-Christ. Why are Protestants now embracing Catholic theology?

As Mel Gibson said in his own words, he was suprized at all the evangelicals interest in the movie, since it was so "Marian".

Maybe this is just part of the great falling away?

Psalm 119

Why? This has nothing to do with the Movie. It is just a bunch of foolishness you made up.




As a Catholic, I can honestly tell you no one exalts the Pope above Jesus.




Jesus also had follower who did as they where told. So did Paul and Peter. It is called proper structure. Everyone has to answer to someone. We are one body, not a bunch of Indepented Churches doing whatever they want. We are meant to be one body.




What are you talking about?




It is true, we are not of this world, but a wise man once said "We are in the world, be not of the world." We are still in the world.



Wow. Good point. Good thing we Catholics don't believe the pope is sinless.  ::) This is a common misconception. No one believes the Pope is sinless, but when it comes to the creation of dogma, he can't make a false one.



Are you saying it is a sin to live in houses now? Is that what you are saying?



The Catholic church: (a) has been hit hard by the money problems facing the world (b) DOES gove most of the "immeasurable wealth" to the poor.



Which he uses to further the message of the gospel. What is wrong with getting gifts? Is accepting a gift a SIN now?

Why does the church at Rome authorize the crucifiction of Christ over and over and dwell on it predominantly?

They very seldom show Him in His present glory.

We are to remember His death but also His resurrection. And not as to reenact it.

Ollie,

Excellent point!

Psalm 119

Tibby, if you do become a priest, if nothing else, please promise me ONE THING.

You will at least become a kind that allows you to get married.

PuhLEEZE get married, Tibby.

Okay, pal--for the children?  (http://sc.msn.com/2{/B4JV7DOJIT1@ESPQCW-JR[.jpg)

    :-\


(Hmmm, "Friar Tibby".   Well, I guess so.   ::))

My  grandneice was about 6, she is catholic, catholic schools, the whole thing. One day after mass she started crying... her mom asked what was wrong. According to my sister the childs words were  "I want my Jesus off that cross!

I agree Ollie

They don't do it "over and over", they make the one sacrifice current now.  The difference is subtle but huge.

Physical depictions of glory are difficult, and usually patheticely inadequate.

Again, they are not reenacting it, but making it current now, which is what the greek means - remembering is a very poor translation.

Says it all really - you're understanding is that of a six year old (being generous).

Thank you  those are  the kindest words.

Luke 18:17

17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
KJV

Says it all really - you're understanding is that of a six year old (being generous).


I guess we can alwasy count on ebia for a little bitta sympathy...


    ;D

Below is what some of the greatest and most esteemed catholic teachers teach about Mary. It is no coincidence that Mel’s movie portrayed Mary and Jesus in the manner he did. Mel is SELLING a FALSE JESUS and MARY who are blasphemous counterfeits. Read the quotes of the greatest teachers of the RCC below and it should be enough to see the real danger of Mel’s movie which promotes the false Mary of the RCC. They claim there is no salvation apart from Mary!

http://www.catholictradition.org/faith4.htm

Those Devoted to Mary
Will Be Saved

O chosen Queen of Heaven! You alone are the refuge of guilty mortals to whom so many a wounded and miserable heart is raised . . . You, O elect Queen, are the gate of all grace, the door of compassion that has never been shut!

-----Bl. Henry Suso

Mary is the key to the gates of Heaven.

-----St. Ephrem

God has entrusted the keys and treasures of Heaven to Mary.

-----St. Thomas Aquinas

No one can enter into Heaven except through Mary, as entering through a gate.

-----St. Bonaventure

Mary is called "the Gate of Heaven" because no one can enter Heaven but through her means.

-----St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori

Holy Scripture was written for Mary, about Mary, and on account of Mary.

-----St. Bernard

Who is this Gate if not Mary? Mary is the Gate through which Christ entered this world!

-----St. Ambrose

All the Saints have a great devotion to Our Lady: no grace comes from Heaven without passing through her hands. We cannot go into a house without speaking to the doorkeeper. Well, the Holy Virgin is the doorkeeper of Heaven.

-----St. John Mary Vianney

She opens the abyss of God's mercy to whomsoever she wills, when she wills, and as she wills, so that there is no sinner however great who is lost if Mary protects him . . . All men: past, present, and to come, should look upon Mary as the means and the negotiator of the salvation of all ages.

-----St. Bernard

Mary is the dispentrix of all the graces God bestows on man.

-----St. Bernardine of Siena

God has decided that we should receive everything from the Father, from the Son, and from the Holy Spirit, and from the Immaculata. This is the only path that each and every grace can follow.

-----St. Maximilian Mary Kolbe

Every grace granted to man in this life has three successive steps: from God it comes to Christ, from Christ to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us.

-----St. Bernardine of Siena

Every grace and blessing possessed by the Church, all the treasures of light, holiness, and glory that abide in her, on earth as well as in Heaven, all are due to the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary . . . Let us acknowledge, then, that her heart is the origin of everything noble, rich, and precious in all the holy souls who form the universal Church in Heaven and on earth. It is the source of salvation . . .

For this reason, all creatures are obligated to render her respect and homage as to their Queen and Sovereign to whom they belong and upon whom they depend, and will depend, for all eternity.

-----St. John Eudes

Mary became for herself and for all men the cause and foundation of salvation.

-----St.  Francis de Sales

Who can worthily thank thee and adequately praise thee, O Blessed Virgin, who by thy Fiat hast saved a lost world!

-----St. Augustine

All those who, to the end of time, shall receive the blessing of our Heavenly Father . . . shall receive their graces only as a result of their perfect obedience to Mary.

-----St. Louis Marie de Montfort

Pure and Immaculate Virgin, save me and deliver me from eternal damnation.

-----St. John Damascene

Immaculate Virgin, you have to save me!

-----St. Philip Neri

O Mother of the salvation of everyone!

-----St. Agnes

If our life were not under the protection of Mary, we might tremble for our perseverance and salvation . . . In her hands Jesus has placed His almighty power in the order of salvation. He has confided to her all the means of salvation. All the graces of salvation, both natural and spiritual, will be given to us by Mary. She is rich with the riches of God Himself.

-----St. Peter Julian Eymard

Unless the prayers of Mary interposed, there could be no hope of mercy.

-----St. Bridget of Sweden

The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: that we obtain everything through Mary.

-----Ven. Pope Pius IX

O my Lady, next to thy Son Jesus Christ, thou hast always been the chief instrument of our salvation.

-----St. Dominic

For, since it is the will of Divine Providence that we should have the God-Man through Mary, there is no other way for us to receive Christ except from her hands.

-----Pope St. Pius X

Our sanctity depends on the degree of our nearness to Mary. She is the nearest to God, and if we are the nearest to her then we therefore will be nearest, through her, to God Himself.

-----St. Maximilian Mary Kolbe

Where Mary is, there is the Son!

-----St. Paul of the Cross

He who sees Jesus also sees the Mother of Jesus.
-----St. Robert Bellarmine

The spirit of Mary is the same as that of her Divine Son; whoever belongs to her cannot therefore be far from Him.

-----St. Joseph Cafasso

The way of salvation is open to no one except through Mary.

-----St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori

Sweet Heart of Mary, be my salvation!

-----Ven. Pope Pius IX

We pray thee, O Lady, Star of the Sea, shine upon us in our distress on the sea of life, and lead us to safe harbor and to the ineffable joys of eternity.

-----St. Anthony of Padua

Hail, O certain salvation of Christians! Hail, fortress of the faithful and salvation of the world!

-----St. Ephrem

O Ark of Glory! O Chamber of Salvation!

-----St. Vincent Ferrer

It is enough, O Lady, that you will it, and our salvation is secure.

-----St. Anselm

Not only do they offend thee, O Lady, who outrage thee, but thou art also offended by those who neglect to ask thy favors . . . He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins . . . He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven . . . Not only will those from whom Mary turns her countenance, not be saved, but there will be no hope of their salvation . . . No one can be saved without the protection of Mary.

-----St. Bonaventure

A man is no true Christian if he has no devotion to the Mother of Jesus Christ.

-----St. John Eudes

The salvation of those who are not protected by Mary is impossible.

-----St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori

It is impossible for persons who are not loved by the Mother of Christ to have any part with Him. Conversely, it is impossible for anyone to perish upon whom she looks with favor.

-----St. John Eudes

He is lost who does not have recourse to Mary . . . If, then, we would be saved, let us recommend ourselves to her.

-----St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori

If people fail to say the Hail Mary, it is a sign that they will probably -----and indeed, shortly-----be condemned to eternal punishment.

-----Bl. Alan de la Roche

The salvation of each individual is attached to the Hail Mary.

-----St. John Capistrano

The heretics, all of whom are children of the Devil and clearly bear the sign of God's reprobation, have a horror of the Hail Mary . . . I do not know, nor do I clearly see, how it can be that a devotion which seems so small can be the infallible sign of eternal salvation, and how its absence can be the sign of God's eternal displeasure; nevertheless, nothing could possibly be more true . . . My Hail Mary . . . is the infallible touchstone by which I can tell those who are led by the Spirit of God from those who are deceived by the Devil. . . Listen to what Our Lady has revealed: "Know, my son, make all others know, that it is a probable and proximate of eternal damnation to have an aversion, a luke-warm-----or a negligence in saying the Angelic Salutation which repaired the whole world." . . . The Hail Mary is a Heavenly dew for watering the earth, which is the soul, to make it forth its fruit in season. A soul which is not watered by that prayer bears no fruit, and brings forth only thorns-----and is ready to be cursed.

-----St. Louis Marie de Montfort

We have to pray to the Madonna to drive away the Devil and all heresies, especially the Masons.

-----St. Maximilian Kolbe

Since the work of salvation began with the Angelic Salutation, the salvation of each one of us in particular is attached to this prayer.

-----St. Dominic

Nothing can be more beneficial than the custom of those who salute Our Divine Lady.

-----St. Thomas More

Therefore, miserable will he be, says Our Queen, and miserable unto all eternity, who in this life, having it in his power to invoke me, is miserable enough not to invoke me and thus is damned.
-
----St. Bridget of Sweden

O Mary, Virgin Most Powerful, you alone have destroyed every heresy in the whole world!

-----St. John Bosco

We may seek graces, but shall never find them without the intercession of Mary.

-----St. Cajetan

Pilgrim.

Thank you for posting the quotes, on what Catholic really believe. Let those who have ears to hear let him hear.


Psalm 119


Those who have an interest may want to read this article in Christianity Today. Please read the first paragraph very closely. ( And Christianity Today actually promoted the movie)

http://www.christianitytoday.com/movies/commentaries/passion-melmarymothers.html

Pilgrim,

I too thank you for posting all those quotes.

(http://www.greektown.net/images/smilies/35.gif)

Corpus,

Do you believe like the greatest teachers of the RCC that there is no salvation outside of Mary?

Saint Pilgrim

Thank you, Psalm, for the CT ref.  The article there seems to only sympathize with the very understandable agony between witnessing mother and suffering offspring, while admitting that Gibson may be taking it further than that, by the typical Catholic veneration of the mother.

Simeon there in Luke 2 prophecies that a sword will pierce through her heart also.  And we have the beautiful Magnificat.  And the reality that yes, above all other women and mothers in the history of all time, both future and past, there is one woman who is visited from upon High by a wonderful and Holy conception, and in the form of a baby Jesus, to take away our sins.

I'm not sure I would fault anyone for revealing or focusing on the perhaps uniqueness of Mary, as Gibson must certainly do.  True, there's no salvation there.  She's just a mother.  

But it's wonderful that she was chosen.  

And certainly there is some merit to a portrayal of Jesus' final hours, tho I've never been attracted to Passion plays(there's one that plays near here and has for many years.  'Never seen it.), even tho they may be Catholic?

Just because a messenger misses the point of the message he is delivering, doesn't mean his listeners have to miss the point too?

Here is page two of quotes from the RCC cults greatest and most esteemed teachers. They teach that there is no salvation apart from their counterfeit Mary.

Those Who Do Not Honor
Mary Will Be Not Be Saved

http://www.catholictradition.org/faith5.htm

He is cursed of God who angers His Mother.

------Ecclesiasticus 3: 18

    For if we are bidden to honor carnal fathers and mothers, how much more the spiritual? . . . If this virtue of charity has been overlooked, a man will lose any fruit of salvation in any good he may do.

------Pope St. Gregory VII

  The honor of Mary is so intimately connected with the honor and glory of Jesus that to deny the one is at the same time a denial of the other.

------Ven. William Joseph Chaminade

Let not that man presume to look for mercy from God who offends His Holy Mother!

------St. Louis Marie de Montfort

Not only do they offend thee, O Lady, who outrage thee, but thou art also offended by those who neglect to ask thy favors . . . He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins . . . He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven . . . Not only will those from whom Mary turns her countenance not be saved, but there will be no hope of their salvation . . . No one can be saved without the protection of Mary.

------St. Bonaventure

It is impossible to save one's soul without devotion to Mary and without her protection.

------St. Anselm

 Woe to those who despise devotion to Mary! . . . The soul cannot live without having recourse to Mary and recommending itself to her. He falls and is lost who does not have recourse to Mary.

------St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori

 To desire grace without recourse to the Virgin Mother is to desire to fly without wings.

------Pope Pius XII

We may seek graces, but shall never find them without the intercession of Mary.

------St. Cajetan

There is no one, O Most Holy Mary, who can know God except through thee; no one who can be saved or redeemed but through thee, O Mother of God; no one who can be delivered from dangers but through thee, O Virgin Mother; no one who obtains mercy but through thee, O Filled-With-All- Grace!

------St. Germanus of Constantinople

The conflict with Hell cannot be maintained by men, even the most clever. The Immaculata alone has from God the promise of victory over Satan.

------St. Maximilian Mary Kolbe

I have great doubts about the salvation of those who do not have special devotion to Mary.

------St. Francis Borgia

It seems unbelievable that a man should perish in whose favor Christ said to His Mother: "Behold thy son"------provided that he has not turned a deaf ear to the words which Christ addressed to him: "Behold thy Mother."

------St. Robert Bellarmine

If you would enter into Life, keep the commandments . . .  Honor thy father and thy mother.

------St. Matthew 19: 17, 19

Behold thy Mother!

------St. John 19: 27

Jesus honored her before all ages, and will honor her for all ages. No one comes to Him, nor even near Him, no one is saved or sanctified, if he too will not honor her. This is the lot of Angels and of men.

------St. Maximilian Mary Kolbe

A man is no true Christian if he has no devotion to the Mother of Jesus Christ.

------St. John Eudes

There is a generation . . . that does not bless their Mother, a generation pure in their own eyes and yet not washed from their filthiness.

------Proverbs 30: 11-12

And the Lord God said to the serpent . . . I shall put enmities between thee and the Woman, and between thy seed and her seed; she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

------Genesis 3: 14-15

All the true children of God, the predestinate, have God for their Father and Mary for their Mother. He who has not Mary for his Mother has not God for his Father. This is the reason that reprobates such as heretics, schismatics, and others, who hate Our Blessed Lady or who regard her with contempt and indifference, do not have God for their Father, however much they boast of it, simply because they do not have Mary for their Mother . . . The most infallible and indisputable sign by which we may distinguish a heretic, a man of bad doctrine, a reprobate, from one of the predestinate, is that the heretic and reprobate have nothing but contempt and indifference for Our Lady . . . The reprobate care next-to-nothing for devotion to Our Blessed Lady, the Mother of the predestinate . . . They do not consider devotion to her necessary for salvation. The means of salvation and sanctification are known by everyone: they are laid down in the Gospel, explained by the masters of the spiritual life, practiced by the Saints, and necessary to all who wish to be saved and to attain perfection. To practice all those means of salvation and sanctification, the grace of God is absolutely necessary . . . Whoever, therefore, wishes to be a member of Jesus Christ, full of grace and truth, must be formed in Mary by means of the grace of Jesus which she possesses in its fullness in order to communicate it fully to her children, the true members of Jesus Christ . . . These great souls, full of grace and zeal, shall be chosen to match themselves against the enemies of God . . . With the one hand, they shall fight, overthrow, and crush the heretics with their heresies, the schismatics with their schisms, the idolaters with their idolatries, and the sinners with their impieties.

 With the other hands, they shall build the temple of the true Solomon and the mystical City of God: that is to say, the Most Holy Virgin.

------St. Louis Marie de Montfort

 If there should come among you anyone who would not honor Our Blessed Mother and who would cause any slackening in our union with her, or who would teach anything different: let him be condemned.

------St. Maximilian Mary Kolbe

 Take away Mary, the Star of the Sea, or take away the Heart of Mary, the true Sun of the Christian world, and what would be left?

------St. John Eudes

Without the Blessed Virgin, a person travels along the road to damnation.

------St. Ildephonsus

The Immaculata must be the Queen of all people. Whoever does not submit to her rule will perish.

------St. Maximilian Mary Kolbe

Your heart will either sing the Divine canticles of Our Lady . . . or it will echo the cursed and unhappy songs of the worldlings here . . . in dishonor to God its Maker, and vibrate eternally with the blasphemies and horrid dirges of the damned in Hell.

------St. John Eudes

Therefore, miserable will he be, says Our Queen, and miserable unto all eternity, who in this life, having it in his power to invoke me, is miserable enough not to invoke me and thus is damned.

------St. Bridget of Sweden

No one will ever be the servant of the Son without serving the Mother.

------St. Ildephonsus

All men who are not thy servants, O Mary, will perish.

------St. Albert the Great

Those who do not serve Mary will not be saved, for those who are deprived of the help of this great Mother are deprived also of that of her Son and of the whole Court of Heaven.

------St. John Damascene

The kingdom shall be closed to him who has deserted her who is destined to be its Queen.

------St. Cyprian

It is not possible for any sinner to be saved without the help of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

------St. John Chrysostom
 

It is impossible for persons who are not loved by the Mother of Christ to have any part with Him. Conversely, it is impossible for anyone to perish upon whom she looks with favor.

------St. John Eudes

He is lost who does not have recourse to Mary . . . If, then, we would be saved, let us recommend ourselves to her.

------St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori

1 Tim 2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

$264 million, and counting.  Third weekend, in a row, No. 1 at the box office...

I wish I would have thought of it first! ;D

Hi everyone! i wanted to add my 2 cents to the discussion. i saw the movie this last saturday. even though i am glad i saw the movie, because the Lord spoke to my heart as i watched, i was left feeling very uncomfortable about a lot of the content. I was really uncomfortable  with the demonic aspects of the movie: the demon Judas saw as he was sitting under the bridge, and the children turning into demons and torturing him, the demon baby satan held, and the portrayal of satan in general as a horror movie figure. i thought that those parts were unnecessary. I also didn't like how  a lot of the movie was dark, having an almost "horror  movie" quality to it, linked with the things i said above.

i also felt that the bible was added to and taken away from. but this movie is not the only one that i have felt this about, the movie The Ten Commandments has biblical inacurracies also. i was also very uncomfortable with Mary being called mother by the disciples, and the fact that Jesus is misquoted several times, or said things that are not biblical at all.

Ok, now, before i get any tongue lashings ;), here are some positive things i have to say about the movie:

God uses everything to His glory, many people will become saved because of this movie, and many will renew their faith.

I am very glad that The Passion has it bright moments, that we saw an "example" of Jesus preaching to the masses about love, with love.

I am so happy that the movie ended with a positive note, His resurrection! At the end of the movie i had a HUGE grin on my face, after all Jesus is alive, and we will serve Him now and in eternity! I wanted to jump up and shout, i was so happy! (and no, it didnt bother me seeing part of the body of Christ at the end as he walked from the tomb. He is and was pure. I choose not to besmirch that. my happiness outshone any negative thought that the enemy might try to give me at that point.)

Right now, in my life, i am experiencing great turmoil. My mother and i are having great difficulties, and i am struggling with judgement, unforgiveness, and anger. The Lord has told me that i have to forgive her, despite the fact that she decided to basically disown my brothers and i only a week and a half after i had a miscarriage (which was almost 3 weeks ago), for self centered and ridiculous reasons.
As i watched Judas waiting for his payment for the betrayl Of Jesus, the Lord spoke this to my heart, "What will be your thirty pieces of silver today?" I truly felt in my heart that the Lord was asking me how i was going to betray Him that day, and every day. Would i willingly, intentionally betray my Saviour today with anger? Judgement? Self righteousness? Unforgiveness?


I guess what i am saying is though i felt uncomfortable with some of the movie, i am hoping and praying that despite the inaccuracies, that people will come to understand the underlying message of this movie. Love.
and i pray that people will be saved and renewed by this message.

I know that if someone says to me that they are going to see the movie, i am responsible to tell them what i know and have read about the Passion, and let them decide for themselves.

On that note, i will enclose the email i wrote to my pastor, and plan on following up on.

Hugs in Christ, Mary

Dear Pastor Jim,

  As I read the info and scripture that backs up the
opinions of these articles, I am concerned with the
content of this movie. Though I am appreciative of the
meaning of this movie, and its underlying message, I
am increasingly uneasy about how un-scriptural,
therefore unfactual this movie is.  I am also
concerned with how much of this movie was based on
Catholic mysticism, adding to and taking away from the
bible.
I will let you read the articles and the scripture
inclosed with these articles so you can decide for
yourself, though I know you are a man of God, and that
these points have already occured to you.

This email is meant in love and concern for all
Christains, and especially non-believers that do not
know the bible. Even I do not know the bible as well
as I should, but as I read these articles, I became
very worried about all the Catholic content included
in this movie : Mary being referred to as "Mother",
Mary appearing much stronger than the Son of God
throughout most of the movie, and the constant
referance made in the movie that Jesus seemed to gain
strenght from Gazing at Mary at moments of weakness.
Also the depiction of Jesus being afraid in the garden
at the very beginning of the movie. What fear could
our Saviour possibly know, since he was without sin?
Many  more concerns that i have are inclosed in these
articles, written by Christains.

Pastor, i am very concerned that Christian leaders
everywhere are endorsing this movie, but none have
spoken on the fact that this movie is not scripturally
sound. This is bothering me quite a bit. i am going to
dig into the word for answers. I am happy that many
will come to Christ because of this movie (i hope),
and i am happy that this movie will help many renew
their faith. Yet i am very concerned about the extra
content included in the film.

I am anxious to hear what you think about all of this,
and i am in no way trying to stir up trouble, or
trying to spit on the cross. There are Christians
everywhere that were left unsatisfied, angry, and
deeply concerned by this movie because of these very
things.

Thank you for your time,
sincere members of your flock,
John and Mary

You know, it is the Protestants obessing over Mary, not the Catholics. The fact that Mary was referred to as "Mother" by the early church and was respected isn't a Catholic idea, but a historical fact. No Catholic I have talked to has said anything about "Mary appearing much stronger than the Son of God" or about "Jesus seemed to gain strenght from Gazing at Mary at moments of weakness." Now, if there is a real problem with the movie, let us know, but it seems to me that Protestants are just looking for reasons to dislike the movie. Come on, stop the nat straining and nit-picking!

The movie was made by a strong Roman Catholic, this was widely publicished at the time of the opening. Why is everyone so bothered to see Catholic-leaning attitutes in the movie? What did you expect? I have friends Denton, Texas who went to see the movie. It was a preview, in a Baptist church. They invited Christian leaders from all over to watch it, Baptist, Catholic, all different sects of the Christian Faith. They even where able to get James Caviezel, the actor who played Jesus, to come and speak with them a little bit after the movie. But when the Pastor of the Church found out Caviezel was a Catholic, they refused to let him speak!

Now, as for your comment on Jesus in the Garden... read that part of the Gospels, and get back to me. He asked God, if there was any other way, to not make him go thru with what he did.

First of all, i am not nit picking, i am stating my opinion, just as you have been able to voice yours. :) This is a forum, the idea of a forum is to have people discuss things (i would hope intelligently, and respectfully). These are my opinions, i am not trying to convert anyone to "my side". This is how I felt when i watched the movie, my personal feelings. i would hope that my feeling are just as valid as anyone esle in this forum. just because i dont agree doesn't mean my opinion or feeling matter any less, does it? anyway, i did actually go see the movie before replying in this topic. i didn't go in expecting not to like the movie. as a matter of fact i hadn't read anything about the movie before seeing it because i wanted to go in unbiased. i wanted to see with my own eyes, and hear with my own heart. i don't know if you read my whole post, but i did list some positive aspects of the movie, again my opinion, my personal feelings and thoughts.


I understand that Mary is the mother of Jesus, and that she is an important and crucial part of Jesus coming to be. but i tho i was baptized Catholic, i do not believe that Mary should be prayed to, there is no scripture to back that. even tho i believe she is Jesus' mother, i don't believe it was God's intention that we worship her.

you said :Now, as for your comment on Jesus in the Garden... read that part of the Gospels, and get back to me. He asked God, if there was any other way, to not make him go thru with what he did.


Yes , Tibby, he did ask God to take the cup from him. it says he was wracked with sorrow, not fear. IMO the movie made it appear as tho He were terrified.


Mat 26:36
Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.

Mat 26:37
And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.

Mat 26:38
Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

Mat 26:39
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt].

Mat 26:40
And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

Mat 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak.

Mat 26:42
He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Mat 26:43
And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.

Mat 26:44
And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.


Luke 12
4   And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5   But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
6   Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
7   But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Jesus is perfect,how could he have fear?


Thanks for listening to my thoughts. again, i hope you were able to see the positives i felt about the movie in my previous post. i did gain from seeing the passion. I just didn't like the whole package.

Hugs in Christ, Mary


Edit: to say that my mother was raised Catholic, and my Aunt is still a devout Catholic. When we get together, we don't point the finger, " Arrogant Protestant!"  or " Idolitrous Catholic!" we are who we are. we don't always agree with each other, and have our own opinions, but we try not to purposely hurt each other. We all love Jesus, and that is what matters.

Tibby
The Catholics are NOT obsessing over Mary because they believe that she was called mother by everybody then and now. They also believe she was stronger than her Son and that Jesus gained strength from “Gazing” at her.



Mell promoted his movie as a True Biblical account of Christ’s last 12 hours. He lied. Nobody expected Catholic mysticism.
No Holiwood production ever portrayed a true Biblical Christ correctly but in their defence, none of them based their movies on a mystic’s dream.

Which I did... and am about to do again :) I just don't see a reason why you should base your whole view of the movie on which emotion you think the actor was trying to protray. I don't believe he was going for fear, he was just trying to show how upset Jesus was. Something has to be majorly weighting on your mind for you to SWEAT BLOOD. ;D Hematidrosis only happens under great distress. We are talking about something being so stressful, your capillary burst! That being the case, don't you think he did a good job?



You don't seem to get it. She WAS called "Mother" back then! And she WAS hed in such high regard. Catholic, Protestant, and Secular history will all tell you the same thing. This isn't up for debate, it is a fact.



Thats funny, because I am a Catholic, and I am close friends with many who are both Layman and priest (of sevreal rites), and I don't know anyone who thinks that. No one I know thinks of Mary as stronger then Jesus. Again, this isn't up for debate, I think I know what I believe.




He based his move on the Bible. He used the "dreams" to fill in the parts of the bible that were shady. Such as, for example, the color of his clothing. Tell me, Bro, what color was Jesus' garments? Red or Purple? If you where making the movie, which color would you have gone with and why?

Note.  all underlined tipe are quotes from Sister Eminerich, whose writings Mell used to create his movie    http://www.emmerich1.com/THE_PASSION.htm#CHAPTER%20I



........At first Jesus looked calm, as he kneeled down and prayed, but after a time his soul became terrified at the sight of the innumerable crimes of men, and of their ingratitude towards God, and his anguish was so great that he trembled and shuddered as he exclaimed: ‘Father, if is possible, let this chalice pass from me! Father, all things are possible to thee, remove this chalice from me!" But the next moment he added: ‘Nevertheless, not my will but thine be done.’ His will and that of his Father were one, but now that his love had ordained that he should be left to all the weakness of his human nature, he trembled at the prospect of death…........
When Jesus, unrelieved of all the weight of his sufferings, returned to the grotto, he fell prostrate, with his face on the ground and his arms extended, and prayed to his Eternal Father; but his soul had to sustain a second nterior combat, which lasted three-quarters of an hour. Angels came and showed him, in a series of visions, all the sufferings that he was to endure in order to expiate sin; how great was the beauty of man, the image of God, before the fall, and how that beauty was changed and obliterated when sin entered the world. He beheld how all sins originated in that of Adam, the signification and essence of concupiscence, its terrible effects on the powers of the soul, and likewise the signification and essence of all the sufferings entailed by concupiscence. They showed him the satisfaction which he would have to offer to Divine Justice, and how it would consist of a degree of suffering in his soul and body which would comprehend all the sufferings due to the concupiscence of all mankind, since the debt of the whole human race had to be paid by that humanity which alone was sinless—the humanity of the Son of God. The angels showed him all these things under different forms, and I felt what they were saying, although I heard no voice. No tongue can describe what anguish and what horror overwhelmed the soul of Jesus at the sight of so terrible an expiation—his sufferings were so great, indeed, that a bloody sweat issued forth from all the pores of his sacred body.....




NO YOU ARE WRONG!!! Give us proof!!

Matthew 12:47  Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48  But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49  And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50  For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


Or in the NIV.  "Your mother"  NOT OUR MOTHER!!!
Note Christ's answer.  "Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?......For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Didn't she do the will of the Father ?


Mary told them how restless and disturbed in mind Judas had latterly appeared, and how abruptly he had left the supper-room. She felt no doubt of his having gone to betray our Lord, for she had often warned him that he was a son of perdition.

She was so wise. Even the Apostles who were close to Judas didn’t see through him. Hm?

She walked along with her head veiled, and her arms frequently stretched forth towards Mount Olivet; for she beheld in spirit Jesus bathed in a bloody sweat, and her gestures were as though she wishcd with her extended hands to wipe the face of her Son. I saw these interior movements of her soul towards Jesus, who thought of her, and turned his eyes in her direction, as if to seek her assistance  . I beheld the spiritual communication which they had with each other, under the form of rays passing to and fro between them.....


 ....I saw Jesus still praying in the grotto, struggling against the repugnance to suffering which belonged to human nature, and abandoning himself wholly to the will of his Eternal Father. Here the abyss opened before him, and he had a vision of the first part of Limbo. He saw Adam and Eve, the patriarchs, prophets, and just men, the parents of his Mother, and John the Baptist, awaiting his arrival in the lower world with such intense longing, that the sight strengthened and gave fresh courage to his loving heart. His death was to open Heaven to these captives,—his death was to deliver them out of that prison in which they were languishing in eager hope! When Jesus had, with deep emotion, looked upon these saints of antiquity, angels presented to him all the bands of saints of future ages, who, joining their labours to the merits of his Passion, were, through him, to be united to his Heavenly Father. Most beautiful and consoling was this vision, in which he beheld salvation and sanctification flowing forth in ceaseless streams from the fountain of redemption opened by his death.
    The apostles, disciples, virgins, and holy women, the martyrs, confessors, hermits, popes, and bishops, and large bands of religious of both sexes—in one word, the entire army of the blessed—appeared before him....



Biblical???
I think not

Mary,

You rightly discern the evil that is in the movie, The Passion. There are many more people who are awakening to this delusion. Here is an exelllent article on the matter:

www.LetGodbeTrue.com

As I began writing this, this verse came to my mind: "For what is highly esteemed among men, is an abomination in the sight of God." Luke 16:15b

Jesus said that His way is a very narrow way, and there are very few who will find life.

Many will claim the success of this movie is some sort of blessing from God.

These are the questions that still loom in my mind....

1) How can God bless a work that is impure? A movie that is filled with idolatry, extra biblical mysticism from a Catholic nun. This falls into the category of witchcraft.

2) Many are saying "God can use a donkey" to fullfill His purposes. This statement could be true. But would he use "Porn stars" to create a movie about His Son? (these are current porn stars....not "ex" porn stars)

3) Does this movie violate the 2nd commandment?

4) Will Mel Gibson use the proceeds of this movie to make more bloody, ungodly movies? ( most of his films have been filled with violence and gore)

5) Has Satan used "The Passion" as a recruitment tool for the Catholic Church? ( apparently some of the crew were "converted" during the making of the movie)

6) Mel Gisbon courted  Evangelical Pastors in this nation to promote this film. He actually got their blessing. ( Are they all blind? Do they not read the Word of God? Or they willing to accept "artistic license" to "promote the gospel")

7) Has our gospel become so weak and ineffective that we must provide "visual effects" to touch man's wicked heart?

8) Will the graphic nature of the movie "desensitize" people to the real gospel of Jesus Christ?

I read recently that teenagers that are into horror movies are flocking to The Passion. Will they be touched?

My greatest concern is that the blind (the pastors) are leading the blind.Will they both fall into a ditch?There are a few voices in the wilderness that are speaking out against the deception in this movie. And those who do speak out are considered "anti-Christs"

Can the very elect be so deceived?

Creationist,

Thanks for posting Anne Emmerich's work, or shall I say demonic visions. Was she a real "saint" or a witch?

Psalm 119

Biblical? I think so. Considering Mel based the movie on the bible, and just used this for back up, yes.

You still never answered my question. Red or Purple? And why. I'm not going to reply directly to anything on that you post untill you tell me which color and why.

Psalm-

1) The only idolatry that has taken place during this movie is the worship of Anti-Catholicism.

2) You still have not proven this, and I cannot find it online.

3) Isn't this number 1? Why did you feel the need to repeat it? Trying to fill out more reasons you don't like the movie?

4) No.

5) No, why would satan want to bring people to salvation?

6) I don't know, maybe the protestant Pastors are all that bad. Maybe you are the one who is blind, not them. Something should be said when the majority of God-fearing men and women disagree with you.

7) Yes, for many.

:'( I know, this is very disturbing and so sad.

That is why i sent that email to my pastor, i am hoping to talk to him about it this sunday. if i dont get answers , i will probably have to find a new church.

Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Proverbs 30:6
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Revelation 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

"And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more: for every man's  word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD  of hosts our God." (Jer 23:36

I cannot see how this movie is considered biblical, it has the image of Jesus saying things that were never said. It clearly states in the scriptures listed above that adding to the word of God is a serious offense in the eyes of the Lord. This movie may be historical in its facts about crucifiction and scouraging, but it is not biblical for the most part. we cant accept what we like about the bible and disregard the rest. i cringe to think that the sin of "adding to and taking away" is being disguised as "artistic license". it doesnt say that we may add to and take away from the word, except if we are feeling a little artistic today. The bible needs no "backing up".

John 1.14. "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth."

Jesus IS the word, why would it need back up. it doesnt say in the bible that we should live by "this" book and "that", or the bible and all these other books and visions. Nor does it say that anytime in the future it can be added to, by a man's word, thoughts. It says that we should live by the word of God alone.

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private  interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of  God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." (2 Pet 1:20-21)

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye  received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word  of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that  believe." (1 Th 2:13)

"I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy  lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy  name." (Psa 138:2)

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the  word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Pet 1:23)

"And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is  called The Word of God." (Rev 19:13)

"And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with  manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know  that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the  mouth of the LORD doth man live." (Deu 8:3)

"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall  not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.  " (Mat 4:4)

"In God will I praise his word: in the LORD will I praise  his word." (Psa 56:10)

"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD  is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him."  (2 Sam 22:31)

"Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy  righteous judgments endureth for ever." (Psa 119:160)

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." (John 17:17)

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is  the word of God:" (Eph 6:17)

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any  twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints  and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."  (Heb 4:12)

Making the word of God of none effect through  your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye."  (Mark 7:13)

"For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of  sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ." (2 Cor 2:17)

"But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in  craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth  commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God." (2 Cor 4:2)

###Another positive thing i have gotten out of the movie is that i have a ravenous hunger for the word now. ;D ###

Tibby,

Once again you have overlooked a post, and/or just don't want to believe facts. Do a "Google" search on the cast of the Passion. Most of this information can be easily obtained on the Movie Review sites. Just punch in their names and you will get the same facts. But for the sake of others I will review what I found in a matter of a couple of hours.

James Caviziel (Jesus) played in "Frequency" it's a movie about a man who can communicate with his dead father via the radio. ( the word of God prohibits the talking to the dead). As far as I know James has not played in any porno films. But the following have:

Rosalinda Celentano (Satan) played in Italian porn movie "Tale of a Gay Porn Star", The Italian name is "Poco piu di un annofa" this movie was made in 2003

Claudia Gerini (Claudia) played the part of Elsa in "Don't Move" (pornographic)released date 2004. She also played a lesbian rock star in La Vespa E La Regina (Italian/2000)

Monica Bellucci (Mary Magdalene) played a topless vampire in Bran Stoker's "Dracula". There is a website dedicated to her
www.100percent-online.com (caution is pornographic)

Sergio Rubini (Dismas) played in the 2002 film "Amnesia" with a pornographic/sodomy theme

These are facts not rumors. I challenge everyone to research the cast of The Passion.

Mary,

This movie may be the catalyst for a one world religion. It is bringing Catholics and Protestants together. Many are seeing Mary in a "New Light".

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons." 1 Tim. 4:1

"And Jesus answered and said to them; Take heed that no one deceives you. FOR MANY WILL COME IN MY NAME SAYING,"I AM THE CHRIST" AND WILL DECEIVE MANY. Mt. 24:4-5

The last chapter of Rev. that you quoted should put the fear of God into people. I surely don't want the plagues put on me and my family.

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil, who put darkness for light, and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!  Isaiah 5:20

Yes, when we hear and see error, it should compel us to run to the Word of God for truth.

Mary, just prepare yourself for persecution for taking a stand!

Psalm 119

Thanks Psalm 119 :) As i just told my hub on the phone, God has impressed upon me to tell people the truth about this movie (that it is not biblical, and "added to"), but not to tell them they can't or shouldn't see it. that, they have to decide for themselves. i am only responsible for telling them the truth, not to make their minds up for them.

I told my older brother this yesterday, his response was , " even the 10 Commandments is all biblically correct." i told him that i agreed with him, that this was true. I also told him that i felt that he needed to know that Jesus is misquoted, and that a lot of the movie is based on mysticism. My bro converted, became a catholic for his first marriage, i think he may have gotten upset with me.  :( Well, i obeyed and did what i was supposed to do. i guess that is what matters, that i be obedient.

I hope and pray that i am strong enough, through His word and love, to do what He asks of me now and every day despite what may come. ;D

Um... you never saw Frequency, did you?  I saw it in the Theatre. Your facts are a little mixed up. He wasn't talking to him "dead" father, he was talking to his living father 20 years in the past, a week before his death (we was a fireman, and he died when he went back in to save someone). You See, Caviziel's charactor (as an adult who lost his father 20 years ago) found his fathers old Hamm radio. He took it out and started using it with his son, as his father had done with him. He soon found that aurora borealis did something to send the radio waves back and forth in time. It is a time traveling(kinda) Sci-Fi movie, nothing to do with supernatural communcation with the dead and spirits and the like. Your twisted view of this movie makes me wonder what else you got wrong about the other actors.



I'll look it all up when I get a chance.



What? Please tell me you are not one of those "left-behind" people.

I think what is really sad is that this movie is causing a rift , a separation to the body of Christ. If this little post here is any inclination of what is just brewing... well, i guess we all have a lot of praying to do. :(

No, no, the rift is a good thing. Is it keeping us Catholics away from the Protestants, and keeping the Fundamentalists away from both groups. Without the rift we could end up being... one body united in and through Christ!!!!! Oh, the horror!!!!!!!

 ::) ;D

Yes, lots of praying.

Don't worry, Swet hope, it is only a small number of Christians who take the Fandamentalist views. Most Christians have put the reformation behind us, and are ready to move on.

There is the thread about "What would you do with a million dollars":  So, is anyone contemplating (I'd ask if anyone is BETTING, but I'm a Baptist  ;D ) on what Mr. Gibson may (or may not do) with his 1/4 Billion dollar paycheck?

(Do you know how many churches could be built in Mexico with that many pesos??  WHOA!!)

Maybe he will give it all to me ;D

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

I see that it is time to move this thread into the debate area. I haven't seen The Passion, but I obviously see a lot of sensationalism in several directions.

I don't do much entertainment. I haven't been to a movie theater in years, and I wouldn't be able to tell you the name of the movie my wife and I went to see.

I watch some television every now and then. I like some of the Discovery Channels and a channel called TV Land. Let me give you an example of sensationalism that only older people will understand when compared with The Passion. I like to watch some of the much older television shows from time to time as they are available on TV Land (i.e. Andy Griffith, Mr. Ed, Car 54 Where Are You, etc.). All of them are completely clean with no bad language or anything else I know of that any Christian would object to.

Now, here's the example of sensationalism. Has any Christian ever investigated the entire cast of the Andy Griffith show? If not, why not? One could apply the same example to modern day clean programming that many Christians watch. Have you ever watched one of the Gaither specials. They don't come on very often, but I really enjoy them. They usually involve a large variety of Gospel groups with beautiful Christian music. They all get together on one stage and have many older people who also have beautiful testimonies for our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Have any of you done a complete background investigation of everyone on the stage before you will listen to their testimonies and music? If not, why not? On top of everything else, many of the people on that stage make their living singing Gospel music. If we all waited for someone COMPLETELY WORTHY to sing Gospel music, there would be no Gospel music. I, for one, will happily listen to the Gaither Specials whenever I have the opportunity.

Yes, this is sensationalism. After reading most of this thread, I really don't know what to say except "UMMM????".

Love In Christ,
Tom

Yes, some good points.

I shoulda thot a this, but just now, over at DrudgeReport:  "MEL GIBSON: 'HAVING DOUBTS' ABOUT BUSH"


That Gibson is coming out, in some interview, critical of the President.

'Nothing wrong with being critical of the President.  But, in the middle of this production, and sky rocketing success, definitely to my mind a taboo to venture into anything other than the present topic at hand.  It'll make you look too much like a megalomaniac.  Big, big mistake.

But it would be just too, too tempting.  When we rise to the top like cream, anyone else similarly up there, like a president, etc., becomes a tempting target.

Shoulda seen this one coming, but I didn't.  I was just assuming Gibson would be able to handle even this kind of success.

But it's just too much, humanly speaking.  Like the sports figures, and a few celebrities,unable to handle it.  

Venturing so soon, right during and beginning international distribution, he ought to be just marking his time and preferably, only on his/our knees, in quiet contempation.

But it would be too much.  After all last year's strife Mel went through, to get the film distributed, this completely unexpected success would just be too much, too soon, to handle.

Too much for the human heart and mind.   Big, big mistake.

The human heart, and tongue--who can tame it?

Tibby,

No, I'm not a rapture ranger! And I don't adhere to the fables of Tim Lahaye.


To all others,

What this all boils down to, is truth vs half truth. When someone takes the Word of God which is pure and holy, and mixes it with fables,(The Dolorous Passion of Christ/ Anne Emmerich) and then is heavily promoted among Catholic and Evangelical circles as "The Truth", this is where the problem lies.

There is a real disconnect with Mel the film producer of some of the most violent movies ever made, and Mel the producer of  The Passion. I'm just wondering if Arnold Swarzenegger (sp?) comes out with a "Christian" film, will the theaters fill up?

It has been clearly established that Mel Gibson is not a born again Christian. He is an idol worshipping, Mary worshipping Catholic. If he does not repent and worship Christ alone, he will spend eternity in hell.

I'm still very concerned that most professing Christians have lost all memory of the Reformation,Luther's 95 theses nailed to the church at Wittenberg,and the millions of Christian's who have been murdered at the hands of the Catholic Church( Read the Foxes Book of Martyrs). Yes, there is forgiveness, but we must never forget the basis of the persecutions; Rome. And a leopard does not change its spots.

So why are millions of Evangelical Christians running to a "Marian" film?

I would plead with every Christian on this board to read the last three or four chapters of the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I would challenge each one to study God's Word.

These are perilous days, and Jesus stated time and time again....."DO NOT BE DECEIVED".

If we think we cannot be deceived; we already are.

Psalm 119

Oh, it is nice to know you hold the power to know who is "a born again Christian." You have never even met the man, and you call him an idol worshipper. If we think we cannot be deceived; we already are, uh? Well, it is good to know you, the all knowing, all powerful, infallible elitist, are hear to help us out. Nice to know you will succeed where billions before you over the past 2000 years have failed, oh wise one. It is a good think you know better then every church leader in the country, or we would all be in big trouble. You are Gods gift to the church, thank you so much for clearing all this up.

Did I lay in on thick enough, everybody? ;D

Good points, BEP.

Tibby, all i can say is WOW. Lets try to keep comments focused on the topic, not at each other. Mud slinging won't do anyone any good. I have nothing else nice to say, so i wont.

1. This is the debate board, which equals craziness! ;D ;D If I have to post in "the forum with no rules" I'm going to have a little fun.

2. I'm sick of people thinking they have a right to question my salvation (or anyone else’s) simply because I am Catholic. You know, if I went out and got drunk every night, and sleep with 10 girls a week, then you can question my salvation, but to question it for the simple reason that I’m catholic? Come on! If I where to say "Well, he is Baptist, so his salvation is question" people would be all over me. But people simply ignore, agree, or half agree if someone questions the salvation of a Catholic. I have asked the Admin to make rule concerning the questioning of the salvation of professing Christians. I haven’t seen any move yet. I am sick of being treated like a second-class Christian by my brothers in Christ. Telling me I worship idols and the like. I think I would know if I was worshiping Mary. I am a big boy, I can tell what idolatry is, and I know my heart. I don’t see how someone else can condemn me for what they THINK I believe. The audacity of it all!

If he worships idols or Mary, then he's not truly catholic.   I've not seen any evidence that he does either...

... so this isn't an issue.

The same Luther who tried to remove James from the bible.


And the millions of catholics put to death at the hands of the protestant churches.  Let alone the protestants put to death by other protestants.

Both sides have got a lot to answer for.  It never was one-sided.

What? Please tell me you are not one of those "left-behind"

What is a "Left-Behind People"?
Ah! I forgot. Since you won't be raptured, you have been prepared by your Leader (mr Pope) to laugh at those who believe they will be. Ridicule is one of Satan’s best weapons.

Read your Bible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Lord God who brought out His people of Egypt, also destroyed the majority of them in the dessert.Their crime? Idolatry.( They really thought that they could worship God and idols too. Boy were they mistaken!)

You cannot worship the Lord God and images.

Guess what Mel Gibson's production company is called?

ICON Productions (an icon is an image)

Coincidence?

Psalm 119

ps What's with Mel carrying around a piece of cloth that supposedly belonged to Anne Emmerich?

What is a "Left-Behind People"?
Ah! I forgot. Since you won't be raptured, you have been prepared by your Leader (mr Pope) to laugh at those who believe they will be. Ridicule is one of Satan’s best weapons.


What does reading the bible have to do with the rapture? Bible doesn't say a thing about the rapture. I'm not talking about the word it self, the idea of the Rapture is found nowhere in the bible. The 7-year trib Left-behind theory was invited by an off-the-wall Franciscan as part of the counter-reformation (in other words, invented by a Catholic), and recycled by Fundamentalists years later. Sorry, no Rapture. It is one of those doctrines you claim the RCC makes up. But, this isn’t the topic of the thread, is it, now?

Lighten up Francis...

Ok, i don't see anything productive coming out of this thread, so i guess i am "taking my ball and going home." ;D I don't want to spend any more of my time being angry and judgemental, when i am working on both of these in my life. (my mom, Oye! thats another story)

Hugs In Christ, Mary

You started it. Or was it just another attempt at ridicule?

It was asked as a side note, I don't want it to hi-jack the thread. It ties into the main arguement. You are claiming part s of the Passions were unbiblical, and yet you ascribe to the rapture doctrine. Don't you just love the irony? ;D

No irony. 100% Biblical. That's why I asked you to read your Bible.

Show me. Lets sees these verse talking about the rapture.

Another time. I just got home after a long hard day.
I'll answer you when I have time on another thread and it'll be titled Rapture. At least it will also grab the attention of those who have found this topic boring and are no longer reading this thread.

Now go do a few Rosaries because you’ll need all the help you can get to twist the Word when I (and anybody who also joins us) quote Scripture and not mystical writings by dreamers.

Tibby,  becarefull you are sounding like a

reformedorthdoxpreterest  :-X

No, just a skeptic. I’m skeptical of non-biblical doctrine that isn’t found in the writing of the early church that is taken as fact. If it can be proven by the Bible, then I believe. If it can be proven by the writings of the early Fathers, then I MIGHT believe. But when the earliest source of a doctrine is an bitter Franciscan priest trying to spite Protestants during the so-call “counter-reformation,” I’m a little skeptical.

Tibby,

We haven't seen eye to eye on much, but you are correct about the "Rapture". But do you know who actually started this false doctrine of a pre-tribulation or "secret rapture"? A young woman named Margaret McDonald( 1830's) of Port Glasgow Scotland who belonged to the Catholic Apostolic Church.

Corrie ten Boom the beloved woman who spent time in a Nazi Camp said this about the rapture doctrine: "The rapture doctrine is a false teaching that Jesus warned us to expect in the latter days."

For over 1800 years after the death of Christ, the Church believed that there was a Resurrection of the saints, not a pre-tribulation "rapture".

It just goes to show you that many of the false doctrines have originated in the Catholic Church, and many Protestants will eventually follow suite.

That brings us back to The Passion. Here is another great article written by a retired professor of theology.

http://www.mttu.com/Articles/MEL%20GIBSONS%20SLAUGHTER%20OF%20CHRIST.htm

Psalm 119

Yeah, McDonald, and lets not forget Fr. Ribera, who maybe the whole 7-year trib theory. I think it is interesting how a lot of the anti-catholics are like Creationist, and are pro- left behind (ever left behind is anti-catholic), when all the ideas from left behind are From Catholic Minds... ;D So, if we are the evil ones...

Thank you, Psalm.  I skimmed your link there, but boy, once again, I'm getting the feeling that Gibson's critics are just intensely jealous of him.


I don't much cotten to most Catholic sympathies; adherrants are resolutely blinded to the greater wonder of salvation in Jesus Christ--nuns and priests and friars and "fathers"-- ::).  Helllooooo.  :-\


But Gibson went through quite a gauntlet to get this thing displayed, last year, with few on his side.  Plus he financed it himself--$30 million.  And now it's grossed nearing ten times that.

If I were Jesus, I'd appreciate someone doing this for me, to show the world, many years after it happend, just what Jesus went through.  And apparently, the "world" is certainly getting to see it.

Can't we be thankful for that?   Okay, it emphasizes the violence; it emphasizes Mary.  Okay.


But does that overshadow just what is going on here--to the point we can't even be thankful for it as a reminder of Jesus and His suffering?

And what all Gibson went through to get it done?

I'd be a nervous wreck by now.


   

UM??? - If anyone thinks they have all the right answers, please step forward for a round of applause.

I finally got enough information about the Passion. I won't be going to see it. Instead, I will be buying the DVD. The continued criticism and reports of people being pointed to Christ with this movie helped me to decide.

Psalm 119 and Tibby, I hope to see you at the RAPTURE! I understand it will be out of this world and denominations will be left with the rest of the confusion on earth. You won't have to believe in the RAPTURE to attend, but you will be required to have the Holy Spirit in your heart and Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour. We can agree to disagree, but it won't have anything to do with the Catholic church or some girl in Scotland.

WHEW!! - There's a lot of hot air in this thread, but I love all of you.


Love In Christ,
Tom

Did anybody find out why there were Gold goblets hanging off the crucifixes?
They were on all 3. They wouldn’t have just been put there for no reason. They must symbolise something.
 

I didn’t find out about it. It isn’t like they can drink from it or anything. Maybe it was to mock the thirsty criminals. Who knows. I wish some one would look it up! I can't find anything in all my searching!