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cris
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« on: January 14, 2005, 12:28:26 PM »


John: 14:12-14

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on Me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.  And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it."

What are some examples of 12-14 happening today?



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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2005, 10:35:57 AM »


John: 14:12-14

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on Me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.  And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it."

What are some examples of 12-14 happening today?

 Jesus' sole purpose was to offer Himself as a sacrifice for all who would accept Him. At the time of His death and resurrection, there were most likly only hundreds of believers. Today there are millions.

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cris
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2005, 11:59:49 AM »


John: 14:12-14

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on Me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.  And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it."

What are some examples of 12-14 happening today?

 Jesus' sole purpose was to offer Himself as a sacrifice for all who would accept Him. At the time of His death and resurrection, there were most likly only hundreds of believers. Today there are millions.

Bronzesnake

Thanks for your response but I'm not understanding it.  What do hundreds of people in the time of Christ, as opposed to millions now, have to do with the question of today's example of "greater works than these shall he do?"  Christ IS in us.  Shouldn't we be doing these works as He said we'd do?  I was looking for the examples.  Christ performed miracle after miracle when He walked on this earth.  Since He is in us, shouldn't we be following in His footsteps doing same?  

cris

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musicllover
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2005, 12:28:50 AM »


John: 14:12-14

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on Me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.  And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it."

What are some examples of 12-14 happening today?

 Jesus' sole purpose was to offer Himself as a sacrifice for all who would accept Him. At the time of His death and resurrection, there were most likly only hundreds of believers. Today there are millions.

Bronzesnake

Thanks for your response but I'm not understanding it.  What do hundreds of people in the time of Christ, as opposed to millions now, have to do with the question of today's example of "greater works than these shall he do?"  Christ IS in us.  Shouldn't we be doing these works as He said we'd do?  I was looking for the examples.  Christ performed miracle after miracle when He walked on this earth.  Since He is in us, shouldn't we be following in His footsteps doing same?  

cris



Cris,
        I believe that we should be about our fathers business, spreading the word, casting our deamons, prophesing, tongues.........., But we are to be wise as well. I'm afraid that I have a split personality when it come believeing some of them.
         There are so many "well look at me" kind of preachers out there, TV avangalist who claim this and that. Wolves in sheeps clothing.
          then there is the other side of me that wants to believe, that want to be a part of some great move of God.
     During a trip with a women group several years ago I witness the hearing being restored to a deaf women in the audiance. I didn't know the women before hand, but several women around me did, each one knew she'd been deaf before she walked into the room, it was an amazing sight, very emotional, she kept praising GOd over and over and over along with several of her friends. Was it real? I don't know, except it was very real that day for everyone there. I have no way of verifing the truth, so what do I do now? Should we even doubt for a moment when there were so many witness stating she had been deaf?
      What ever the truth is, it must bring glory to the father, and if it is false it falls on the head of the person faking it, and or the person who is perpitrating the healing or what ever. If I believe that it is real, and its not then the guilt falls on the guilty fakers......I believe because I understand this passage to say that miracles are real, and should be done to day, and am very saddened when I have believed and find out later it was faked.  A true black mark on the great name of our Lord when people do that. But I sitll believe that miracle do happen, even tho I am half doubting thomas.

 musicllover
       
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cris
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2005, 10:39:09 PM »


Musicllover,

Well, God can use anyone and anything.  What the devil means for evil, God can turn it around for His glory. Actually, I don't know what to think of what's going on in these TV ministries.  I would think if they were all false, many more people would be coming forward exposing them.  Anyone can say someone is false, but proving it isn't something they do.  People do gossip, christian and non christian alike.  I also see people starting out on fire for the Lord, and then somewhere along the line, they must, somehow, get contaminated.  They are ultimately accountable to God.  I can only judge someone if I see and know it myself.

I don't watch the TV ministries as much as I used to.  However, praise God, when I needed to hear His word preached, I heard it on TV.  Those ministries fed me for a long time.  They drew me closer to Jesus Christ.  I am forever grateful they were there.  

cris

   
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2005, 11:39:35 PM »

Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.




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Joh 9:4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2005, 01:24:13 AM »

John 14:12-14 "The truth is, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father. You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, because the work of the Son brings glory to the Father. Yes, ask anything in my name, and I will do it!"

Jesus promises that his disciples will do even greater works than he did. And they did!!

Jesus is still at work through his disciples. He has specifically told us to use prayer to release his power and bring his blessing. So often we sell ourselves short because we only view things from a fleshly, earthbound perspective. However when we serve and pray in Jesus name, far-out things begin to happen. Jesus does greater things through us than we can imagine, in todays world.

Resting in the Lord's arms.
Bob
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musicllover
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2005, 02:21:01 AM »


Musicllover,

Well, God can use anyone and anything.  What the devil means for evil, God can turn it around for His glory. Actually, I don't know what to think of what's going on in these TV ministries.  I would think if they were all false, many more people would be coming forward exposing them.  Anyone can say someone is false, but proving it isn't something they do.  People do gossip, christian and non christian alike.  I also see people starting out on fire for the Lord, and then somewhere along the line, they must, somehow, get contaminated.  They are ultimately accountable to God.  I can only judge someone if I see and know it myself.

I don't watch the TV ministries as much as I used to.  However, praise God, when I needed to hear His word preached, I heard it on TV.  Those ministries fed me for a long time.  They drew me closer to Jesus Christ.  I am forever grateful they were there.  

cris

   

Cris,
      Yes I agree, Its hard to believe that anyone could do greater works that Jesus Christ. I've heard a teaching that this scripture means greater as in more works, not greater as in a better kind of miracle. I can't imagine what kind of miracles could be done today that Jesus didn't do so I have a tendancy to believe that it means greater in quanity not quality.
       There are some TV/radio Evangalist that are in it for the right reasons, they want to spread the word and minister to the needs of the people, so not all of them are bad. As Bro Tom shared on antoher thread and worth repeating here, if a Preacher can't say Jesus Christ is almight God then we know for sure they are working for the devil. Its up to the chirstians to check out the fruits, so I suppose being a doubitng Thomas isn't all bad, its when we doubt in disbelief and scoff at the power of God that makes it bad.
     Might be worth starting a thread on any info we have of TV ministers, authors, and others who work in the ministry. Just posting articles and information so it will allow others to do some investigation, at least this will expose those who are in error to the word of God.
       I've noticed in the last several years that so many Evangalist have fallen, or at least you hear the negative news about them. I loved Jimmy Swaggart until, then Benny Hinn, Jim and Tammy Baker. Some that I listen too and feel like they are right with God, are John MacArthur, James D Kennedy. Dr Dobson, Joyce Myers (heard something while back about her but can't remember what it was). Problem with that is how do we know the articles we read are for real and it not turn into gossip?  
       Anyway back to the origninal thread.
Musicllover  
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2005, 02:02:26 PM »

When Jesus walked the earth there were a few 'Christians' Seems He started with about a dozen... Wink  Our numbers have grown over the years grown and grown. The more often the world trys to wipe out His Holy name the stronger we grow.



Hab 2:14

14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
KJV
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cris
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2005, 03:05:53 PM »


OK, again--------the specifics.

Specifics (miracles, healings, etc.) WERE SEEN in the time of Christ, wrought about by Christ Himself or His disciples. Weren't these things the talk of the town?  Jesus' teaching and miracles got Him crucified, and the disciples were martyred because they preached Christ and performed miracles.  We should be seeing this today, should we not?  I mean, the miracles, but guess we can't have miracles without being willing to physically die.  It seems to me miracles should be commonplace and not the exception.  I understand that our prayers release God's power, more than we can imagine, and that He works through us in things we can't see. I'm not talking about that here, but rather the visible manisfestation of Christ's miracle working power. Somewhere Jesus said something to this effect (I can't remember where or His exact words), if you don't believe Me, then believe the works (or miracle's) you've seen.

 

 
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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2005, 03:12:05 PM »


OK, again--------the specifics.

Specifics (miracles, healings, etc.) WERE SEEN in the time of Christ, wrought about by Christ Himself or His disciples. Weren't these things the talk of the town?  Jesus' teaching and miracles got Him crucified, and the disciples were martyred because they preached Christ and performed miracles.  We should be seeing this today, should we not?  I mean, the miracles, but guess we can't have miracles without being willing to physically die.  It seems to me miracles should be commonplace and not the exception.  I understand that our prayers release God's power, more than we can imagine, and that He works through us in things we can't see. I'm not talking about that here, but rather the visible manisfestation of Christ's miracle working power. Somewhere Jesus said something to this effect (I can't remember where or His exact words), if you don't believe Me, then believe the works (or miracle's) you've seen.
 
Cris, have you ever, since becoming a Christian. Felt you shouldn't go somewhere, or do something? If you have, thats Jesus working through you. Saying, HEY STOP I don't want you hurt.
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cris
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« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2005, 03:30:44 PM »


OK, again--------the specifics.

Specifics (miracles, healings, etc.) WERE SEEN in the time of Christ, wrought about by Christ Himself or His disciples. Weren't these things the talk of the town?  Jesus' teaching and miracles got Him crucified, and the disciples were martyred because they preached Christ and performed miracles.  We should be seeing this today, should we not?  I mean, the miracles, but guess we can't have miracles without being willing to physically die.  It seems to me miracles should be commonplace and not the exception.  I understand that our prayers release God's power, more than we can imagine, and that He works through us in things we can't see. I'm not talking about that here, but rather the visible manisfestation of Christ's miracle working power. Somewhere Jesus said something to this effect (I can't remember where or His exact words), if you don't believe Me, then believe the works (or miracle's) you've seen.
 
Cris, have you ever, since becoming a Christian. Felt you shouldn't go somewhere, or do something? If you have, thats Jesus working through you. Saying, HEY STOP I don't want you hurt.


ABSOLUTELY!  Some would call it a "gut feeling".  It's Christ working in me, cause it's never wrong!!  But, DW, that's not what I'm refering to above.  I'm talking about miracles that are seen and talked about.

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Reba
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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2005, 03:49:46 PM »

Because man thinks the miracles are 'great works' does not mean Jesus was talking miracles. In reading John 13 and 14 it doesn't read as if He is talking of what we call miracles. But talking of loving our brothers. I see also in chapter 15/16 He is talking of the Comforter.  

John 16:7

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
KJV
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Reba
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2005, 03:57:38 PM »

Another thought on ‘greater works’ ….. Inge ( my friend) has had liver transplant surgery… We can spread the Gospel across the world in split seconds… We live longer lives than was lived 2000 years ago…. Leprosy is no longer a problem… polio is not crippling children… Do I thank the Lord for penicillin ? or Dr. Pasture?  To me there are many miracles around we just get misdirected in thinking of them as mans achievements.  

Off the soapbox for a while maybe….
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2005, 04:03:20 PM »


Cris, have you ever, since becoming a Christian. Felt you shouldn't go somewhere, or do something? If you have, thats Jesus working through you. Saying, HEY STOP I don't want you hurt.
ABSOLUTELY!  Some would call it a "gut feeling".  It's Christ working in me, cause it's never wrong!!  But, DW, that's not what I'm refering to above.  I'm talking about miracles that are seen and talked about.
No explanation for icebergs off New Zealand
Tuesday, 11 January, 2005

Reports of clusters of icebergs in the deep ocean east of Campbell Island cast a chill over the past couple of summers. Now it seems record-strength southerly winds, which helped produce our coldest December since 1945, could have blown the icebergs nearer to New Zealand. Icebergs up to three kilometres wide were sighted just before Christmas, prompting navigation warnings from the Maritime Safety Authority. The iceberg struck by the Titanic in the North Atlantic in 1912 was estimated at up to 30 metres high and 120m long. But why have icebergs appeared off southern New Zealand now, and is it further evidence of the end of the golden weather? Playwright Bruce Mason set his play of the same name, which evokes a classic New Zealand summer, in the hazy days of the early 1930s, a time when an iceberg was actually seen off the mainland. A Canterbury University study 40 years later noted that the iceberg could be seen by the naked eye off the South Otago coast in 1931. It was spotted floating at a navigational distance of latitude 46 degrees south. Jim Salinger, principal scientist at the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (Niwa), says the 1931 sighting was just the second from the coastline last century.

In October 1902, big icebergs floating one degree further south were spotted between the Antipodes Islands and the Chatham Islands. In 1948, icebergs were reported a further three degrees south. But Niwa is unable to offer firm explanations for these as proper research of the Antarctic and its surrounds was not undertaken till the establishment of Scott Base a decade later. In 1967, 85 icebergs were sighted from the Japanese whale research ship Chiyoda Maru No 5 at the same latitude as the 1948 cluster.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3151291a7693,00.html
__________________________________________________
73% of doctors in poll say miracles can happen
If anyone believes in miracles, it would probably be the people who see the entire range of human life from birth to death regularly - doctors. So perhaps it's not surprising that an overwhelming majority of physicians say they believe that miracles occur.In a national survey of 1,100 physicians released this week, 74% said they believe that miracles have happened in the past and 73% believe they can occur.Whether it's a terminal patient making a full recovery, someone waking up from a coma or a girl surviving rabies, doctors say they have seen things their scientific background and medical training cannot explain."Sometimes despite what we do or in spite of what we do, people get better, and I think they get better because of the hand of God," said Mushir Hassan, an internal medicine specialist at Elmbrook Memorial Hospital who is Muslim.Carl Olson, a radiation oncologist at Columbia St. Mary's, has treated cancer patients for almost 30 years. He has seen his share of things he can't explain.

"If you define a miracle as something that happens beyond scientific and medical explanation, there's no question in my mind there have been events that have happened over my many years as an oncologist that defy explanation," said Olson, who is Protestant.The survey was conducted last weekend by HCD Research and the Louis Finkelstein Institute for Religious and Social Studies of The Jewish Theological Seminary in New York City. Physicians surveyed were Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist.
http://www.jsonline.com/alive/news/dec04/286243.asp
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