tongues????

[irene]

If you discount tongues what do you believe about other gifts of the Spirit which we are told to desire.

[Shylynne]

Nothing is real to you until you experience it, otherwise it's just hearsay.

[MalkyEL]

Nothing is real to you until you experience it, otherwise it's just hearsay.

nana:
and that is exactly why/how people get sucked into deception.  True faith is not seeing, but believing.
 
Jesus said, blessed are they who do not see, yet believe.

[MalkyEL]

The gifts were primarily given as a sign to unbelievers.  I believe that most of the gifts of the spirit that are used today, are not like those in the NT, but an imitation - and therefore are from the enemy and not from God.

Most of what is billed/manisfested today as gifts of the Spirit cannot be found in Scripture, and therefore make them counterfeit.

shalom, nana

[Shylynne]

1Co 14:39  Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

[MalkyEL]

1 Timothy 4
1 ¶ But the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons . . .

[Shylynne]

1Co 12:7  But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8  For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9  To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10  To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11  But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

If we say that speaking in another language by the manifestation of the Holy Spirit is a doctrine of devils, are we not saying that Paul himself was proclaming a teaching of demons as well? God forbid! If that be so then our foundation is not a very sure foundation.

1Co 14:37  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38  But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
1Co 14:39  Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Is it possible to forbid a gift of God? It would seem so. And God, being gentle as he is would not force it on anyone who didn't want it. But God forbid we should forbid His gifts or even go as far as to despise them.

1Th 5:19  Quench not the Spirit.
1Th 5:20  Despise not prophesyings.

1Co 14:1  Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts], but rather that ye may prophesy.
1Co 14:2  For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 1Co 14:3  But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Co 14:4  He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
1Co 14:5  I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

If he that speaks in an unknown language by the manifestation of the Spirit can be understood by "no man" then how can some say that Paul was not refering to a supernatural gift.

1Co 13:8  Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9  For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 1Co 13:11  When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Speaking in other languages by the Spirit have purpose: edifying yourself (1 Co. 14:4), and edifying the church if interpreted (1 Co 14:5). But "when that which is perfect is come" then they will cease to have use.

Eph 4:11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

While it is true that we are being "perfected". We DO NOT "know as we are known". The perfect HAS NOT come. We still see through a glass darkly, and are yet to see "face to face". The evidence is in the fact that Paul refered to iniquity and the paradox of godliness as a mystery in these last days (Acts 2:17):

Col 1:25  Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Col 1:26  [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27  To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 1:28  Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Col 1:29  Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Eph 3:8  Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Eph 3:9  And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

If perfection has already come because the gospel has been preached on in the world, then why did Paul say that he still saw in a "glass darkly"? Paul was still being perfected eventhough he was more educated in the Gospel than most people.

Heb 6:1  Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

We are going on to be perfected, by knowledge, revelation, exhortation, etc etc. But until that which is "perfect" is come, we will do what we dont want to do, and not do what we do want to do just as the Apostle Paul declared:

Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

1Co 15:19  If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1Co 15:20  But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21  For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24  Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 1Co 15:26  The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] DEATH.

Christ must reign until all enemies are destroyed. That last enemy will be DEATH. That is when the perfect will come. Has death ceased yet? I think not. That is when the kingdom of God will be delivered up and we will "know as we are also known". That is when we will see "face to face".

Until the "perfect" has come, then that which is partial must remain. These gifts are here to aid in the perfecting of the saints (Eph 4:11) until our enemy of sin and subsequent death is destroyed.

We all have different gifts. And we are alll important to the function of the Body of Christ. But I wish we wouldn't refuse and even despise the working of the Spirit. God gave it to us for our edification (lifting up). Edification should be our aim because it rests on the Command of Love.

I'm looking forward to the day when death is abolished and there is no need for these manifestations of the Spirit. But until then I'll continue to talk in unknown languages as the Spirit gives the utterance. .

Act 2:1  And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2  And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3  And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4  And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Peace out.



 

[gary cook]

1 Timothy 4
1 ¶ But the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons . . .

JESUS CHRIST said?When I return ?Will I find FAITH on the earth .Will people believe in the gifts or anything ? THE JUST LIVE BY FAITH .WE BELIEVE WHAT WE DO NOT SEE ? seeing is not FAITh . NOT SEEING ,yet believing ,This is FAITH .DO WE DO THIS ?

[MalkyEL]

Shylynne wrote:
 But until then I'll continue to talk in unknown languages as the Spirit gives the utterance. .

nana:
how do you know you aren't blaspheming God when you pray in your tongue?

 

[gary cook]

JUST LIVE BY FAITH . NO OTHER WAY ? With out FAITh ?WE ARE DEAD IN THE WATER . You will never go very far in the LORD ?WITH OUT FAITH .unbelief ?is the biggest killer of all .We must believe even to receive salvation . Now we do not need to trust people .BUT WE MUST TRUST THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD . And we should receive everything ,HE IS WILLING TO GIVE .BECAUSE IT IS FOR THE WHOLE BODY .WHAT WE RECEIVE .NOTHING JUST FOR US . Even the things in the flesh ?money or whatever .It is to bless others .Oh we can have some ? HE WANTS US HAPPY .But also told us ?IT IS BETTER TO GIVE THAN RECEIVE .
You know one time ,I had no money .I went in my room and prayed for a job.a guy called right after .painting some buildings .I cleared $20,000 for one week .MOST I ever made working in my life .NOW IF I DID NOT HAVE FAITH or IF I DID NOT PRAY ? GUESS WHAT ?I WOULD NOT HAVE RECEIVED .Was this evil ?To ask MY FATHER THE KING .TO BLESS HIS SON .Which I am ? NMO of course not .HE SAYS ?YOU HAVE NOT BECAUSE YOU ASK NOT .OR YOU ASK AMISS . So I SAY ASK .THEN BLESS OTHERS .BUT ASK IN FAITH ,KNOWING HE DESIRES TO BLESS HIS KIDS .I AM A 58  YEAR OLD KID .I ask GOD TO GIVE ME THIS WOMAN .she is 34 now .I been with her for 13 years i guess .But she did not like older men . But we can have pretty much what we want ?as long as it does not come between HIM AND US . Now a while back ?HE told me not to seek riches .Why because HE knows I have FAITH to receive .Yet it would cause me trouble in the flesh .So ,I will not .receive the gifts and every thing YOU CAN .BLESS THE LORD .And BLESS THE BODY .WE NEED MORE BLESSING FROM YOU .THAN YOUR WILLING TO GIVE ?

[Shylynne]

Shylynne wrote:
 But until then I'll continue to talk in unknown languages as the Spirit gives the utterance. .

nana:
how do you know you aren't blaspheming God when you pray in your tongue?

Luk 6:45  A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

To blaspheme God means to "speak evil" of God according to the greek text. I cannot speak evil of God if I dont think evil of God in my heart according to the doctrine of Christ.

Mat 7:16  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

[MalkyEL]

When you are speaking in tongues, you are not speaking from your heart.  You are uttering syllables that you have no understanding of. Deceptive spirits can cause a believer to utter a tongue that is ungodly and evil.

I have talked to people who have prayed in tongues and been in the hearing of a missionary who interprets the words and they are curses uttered against God.  The person that was speaking in tongues was convinced they were speaking as the Spirit gave utterance.

ps:  a believer is not necessarily a corrupt or a good tree.  the context of Matt 15 is in reference to a false teacher or prophet.

[Shylynne]

When you are speaking in tongues, you are not speaking from your heart.

You are contradicting scripture, as is written you will only speak what is already in your heart. The Spirit gives you the utterance, but you must do the  speaking. (Acts 2:4)

Deceptive spirits can cause a believer to utter a tongue that is ungodly and evil.

This statement has no scriptural support.

I have talked to people who have prayed in tongues and been in the hearing of a missionary who interprets the words and they are curses uttered against God.  The person that was speaking in tongues was convinced they were speaking as the Spirit gave utterance.

This is hearsay, and nothing more than a fable (a tale), thus has no place in a discussion of sound doctrine.
 Neither give heed to fables... which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: 1Ti 1:4

[gary cook]

THINK ?Could anything that comes from GOD be imperfect or EVIl .OF course not .reject those thoughts .You are a child of the creator .Live in FAITh .Believe the unseen .Know HIm as FATHER .Would our FATHER give us a snake if we ask for a gift .HE LOVES YOU enough to die .Then HE LOVES YOU enough to give YOU EVERY GOOD THING .And HE WILL .if you ONLY TRUST AND BELIEVE .HE has the final say so in your life !Believe this ?

[bluelake]

Gary,
I'm glad you speak with tongues. Do you speak in tongues privately but not in Church?
In Church we are not to speak in tongues if there is no interpreter.
In the private speaking in tongues you edify yourself. Your mind does not understand but you are edified.
In the Church he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues because the Church is edified.
Tongues plus interpretation equals prophesying.
Every incident in the Bible where someone spoke in tongues, the tongue was an earthly language. It's ironic that most tongue talking today is alledgedly in an angelic language. Why do you suppose this is so?
I think that most of what we get today is not authentic. They say it's angelic because of one verse that Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 13. "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels..."
Angelic tongues cannot be verified for who knows an angelic language? But give me a person who speaks in an earthly language that he has not learned and verify it by someone who knows the language and I will show you something genuine.
This is what happened at Pentecost. They spoke in languages of the Jews from around the world. They were understood by them and therefore verified genuine. I beleive God can use tongues today but I have not personally witnessed it.
Private tongues do not need an interpreter, you are simply edifying your self. Be sure before God that you are truly speaking from the Spirit. We should always be honest before God and ask Him to confirm to us that our tongues are real and not fabricated.
All things by faith.
God Bless,
asaph  

What is the definition of 'Angelic tongues? Is this Glossolalia?
(unintelligible sounds) How can this be interpreted?
I don't know of anyone speaking in actual languages as they did in Acts2

God bless,
bluelake