Who?

[cris]

I know that Maitreya is a false christ so my comment has absolutely nothing to do with him or his followers.


My question is how does John 14:12-14 fit in today with the miracles that are supposedly happening?  12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it."

Shouldn't we, as followers of Christ, be doing these things in His name?  Shouldn't miracles be commonplace?

Anybody?   Any thoughts?

Two things, Cris....first being that most people don't read Deut. 13 very closely. While the sign of a true prophet is given as "what they say comes to pass...", a little later on God also says that He will ALLOW a false prophet to have signs and miracles happen TO TEST the believer, because what the false prophet is saying leads AWAY from God.

This is very true in most of what is being done today in His name by these false teachers and "prophets."  They emphasize the kingdom of self ( I can have anything because I'm a child of God), and replace Christ's sacrifice with self-sacrifice.

Secondly, there are miracles happening....you just don't hear about them because they aren't fake, they aren't plastered all over TV and radio and are not being exploited for the purpose of building up somebodys ministry or name.

I've seen a few.  

 

 
I was asking about John 14:12-14.  I know what Deuteronomy 13 says. I just read it. I'm not seeing the connection. It says we should stone them to death, among other things.

Maybe re-phrasing will help.  What are the examples of John 14:12-14 in 2005?  

Can you give some detail on the miracles you've seen?

Thanks
cris

[musicllover]

Bro Hank,
          THanks for the info, darn I think am I sick that week end...
      Can you tell me any thing about this Reinhard Bohnke? I bought a video of a man raised back to life during one of his cursades.

ML....Bonnke is a german evangelist that has been spending all his time in Africa. His "crusades" are aimed predominately at healing and miracles, although he claims many conversions. He at one point spoke to over 1 million at one time in a stadium in Nigeria. During 2003, I think it was, he claimed over 9 million conversions.

Althought there have been many claims of healings, and even the dead being brought back, there has been absolutely no corroboration.

This link http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/bonnke_raisedpastor.asp gives some of the story.

This link http://www.moriel.org/discernment/pastor_raised_from_dead_at_rheinhard_bonnke_event.htm gives more.

And yet another: http://www.letusreason.org/popteac13.htm

THanks for the info I'll be looking these up,
musicllover

[Jemidon2004]

hee hee...i got a bit carried away with the blessed hope thing. Christ's return is part of the blessed hope. i believe Paul puts it down as the blessed hope of our salvation. I also see the Second coming of Christ as part of the blessed hope of the tribulation saints. They will eagerly look forward to Christ's return and His glorious appearing. I believe Scripture refers to the Glorious appearing as happening at megiddo at the great battle, then He sets foot on the Mount of Olives during or after the battle in Jerusalem. I could be wrong, but that's what comes to mind as I think about it. I dont have all the Scriptures in front of me, so I can't quote anything concrete. Sorry...lol. If i'm not mistaken, the blessed hope for us is the return for His Church, i.e. the Rapture. That's just what i can remember off the top of my head. cause i don't have my bibles or commentary in front of me. I mean, i could use online resources, but nothing beats turning pages to search something up. I hope that clarified my position. Oh yea, when i say sensible, i mean those who are willing to get off the tail and get into God's Word and seek His will and know that until Jesus of Nazareth steps foot on the Mount of Olives, Christ will not walk this earth in either his human form or his glorified form. God Bless

Joshua

[Evangelist]

hee hee...i got a bit carried away with the blessed hope thing. Christ's return is part of the blessed hope. i believe Paul puts it down as the blessed hope of our salvation. I also see the Second coming of Christ as part of the blessed hope of the tribulation saints. They will eagerly look forward to Christ's return and His glorious appearing. I believe Scripture refers to the Glorious appearing as happening at megiddo at the great battle, then He sets foot on the Mount of Olives during or after the battle in Jerusalem. I could be wrong, but that's what comes to mind as I think about it. I dont have all the Scriptures in front of me, so I can't quote anything concrete. Sorry...lol. If i'm not mistaken, the blessed hope for us is the return for His Church, i.e. the Rapture. That's just what i can remember off the top of my head. cause i don't have my bibles or commentary in front of me. I mean, i could use online resources, but nothing beats turning pages to search something up. I hope that clarified my position. Oh yea, when i say sensible, i mean those who are willing to get off the tail and get into God's Word and seek His will and know that until Jesus of Nazareth steps foot on the Mount of Olives, Christ will not walk this earth in either his human form or his glorified form. God Bless

Joshua

No es problema.  While I'm in partial agreement about the blessed hope (certainly it is more than hope...it's a surety!), when Paul spoke of the hope, it was (twice) while he was being questioned for his beliefs as a pharisee...that specifically being the resurrection.

As to Meggido, I think scrip shows that the order of business begins with Jesus setting foot on the Mt. of Olives. And btw, who is it that is with Him when He's riding down from heaven?  Then, after landing, He defeats the enemy with a sharp sword (out of His mouth)....another way of saying He has such a way with words that He'll just slay you!!  

Gotcha on the sensible. You must be referring to those who won't go near Pensacola or Toronto.  

[Jemidon2004]

LOL... WE WILL BE RIDING WITH HIM...I hope you're a pre-tribulationalist...yea...when Jesus comes back...He's not going to be too happy. I mean He'll execute rightous judgement, but He's coming to do business. and my business with Him will already be done with as far as His wrath is concerned...lol. anywho i'm outta here. God Bless.

In Christ and Under God,
Joshua

[musicllover]

Bro Hank,
          THanks for the info, darn I think am I sick that week end...
      Can you tell me any thing about this Reinhard Bohnke? I bought a video of a man raised back to life during one of his cursades.

ML....Bonnke is a german evangelist that has been spending all his time in Africa. His "crusades" are aimed predominately at healing and miracles, although he claims many conversions. He at one point spoke to over 1 million at one time in a stadium in Nigeria. During 2003, I think it was, he claimed over 9 million conversions.

Althought there have been many claims of healings, and even the dead being brought back, there has been absolutely no corroboration.

This link http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/bonnke_raisedpastor.asp gives some of the story.

This link http://www.moriel.org/discernment/pastor_raised_from_dead_at_rheinhard_bonnke_event.htm gives more.

And yet another: http://www.letusreason.org/popteac13.htm

THanks for the info I'll be looking these up,
musicllover

Hey, I looked at these sites, and a few more that was on google. I guess I'm not surprised cause even when I watched the tape I was questioning the whole raised from the dead for 3 days think, not that God can't do that, but I don't know,  the man was embalmed already (even if its not the same as they do in the states), as much as I want to believe it something about this man being dead 3 days bothered me, Jesus is the only man to have done that, and I just wasn't sure that God would do that all again with any man.  I don't know what to think of this Pastor Bonnke person, I hate to deframe a man of God, but if he is a false prophet then he needs burned at the stake. But now I'm wondering about Pat Robertston and some the 700 club?
musicllover

[Evangelist]

But now I'm wondering about Pat Robertston and some the 700 club?
musicllover

   Keep wondering....and looking.

[at_the_Cross]

But now I'm wondering about Pat Robertston and some the 700 club?
musicllover

   Keep wondering....and looking.

Up that is  

[Evangelist]

But now I'm wondering about Pat Robertston and some the 700 club?
musicllover

   Keep wondering....and looking.

Up that is  

YUP! Eyes on de skies, guys...our HERO cometh!!!

[nChrist]

Evangelist,

Brother Hank,

WHAT A DAY OF REJOICING THAT WILL BE!!

It might be today!

Love In Christ,
Tom

1Corinthians 10:31  Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

[PrairWarur]

I thought Lazarus was in the grave or dead for 4 days?
That didn't seem to be a problem for God, not at all!
I think through God all things are possible!
  I once disobeyed God concerning laying on hands of a woman who was blind.  I was all for it and prepared to do as He commanded, until I was told by her that the eyes in her head were mere marbles and not her own eyes at all.
I guess I believed God only in part, that He could heal her had she still had her original eyes, but He couldn't heal her because her own eyes were taken out and glass eyes added.

What miracle has conditions to it?   What can stop God from doing as He wishes?  Can embalming fluid or glass eyes deter God from His miracles?  I don't think so.

As I have grown in the Lord I realize that it is my own limited thinking that stops the miracles.  It is my disobedience that may cause someone from losing out on their miracle, at least temporarily.

I pray that God will grant me more faith, that I can do, "Greater things than these."  And I pray that He gives me enough wisdom and mercy to not knock someone He has called because my limited faith and wisdom cannot see past my flesh.

If anyone has more info on Benny Hinn I would like to know.  I have seen Benny in person and the power of God fell mightily upon me.  But then again, God used a donkey to speak once, so I suppose if He choses to use me or Benny Hinn then He will.

To God be the power and the glory forever and ever! amen
Shalom, PrairWarur

[Jemidon2004]

well, i've never seen hinn in person, but i do have an interesting article for you if i can find it on my computer...brb.

A Summary Critique: Lord, I Need a Miracle
Benny Hinn, (Thomas Nelson, 1993)
by Hendrik H. Hanegraaff
 
 

“Lord, I need a miracle!” How often have you heard those words? More to the point, how often have you uttered those words? Sooner or later as each of us journeys down the road of life, we will cry out to God for relief from the specter of sickness and suffering. Those cries are often intensified dramatically when we beseech the Lord to provide a miracle for a loved one, especially a child.

I shall never forget the desperation I felt when my son, David, suffered a critical eye injury. In one blinding instant my whole world seemed to fall apart. One moment there was excitement, the next excruciating pain. Instinctively, I cried out, Lord, David and I need a miracle!”

Benny Hinn’s latest book, Lord, I Need a Miracle (hereafter Miracle), appeals to multitudes who — like I did — face physical exigencies that threaten to overwhelm their lives. Tragically, those who purchase Miracle in desperation will inevitably discover that what it promises, it does not provide.

Hinn promises that the reader will “discover how to have victory over disease and live a life full of health and happiness” (jacket flap). But he bases this promise on a variety of biblical texts wrenched out of context.

Hinn is fond of citing Isaiah 53:5 (“by his stripes we are healed”) to justify his claim. The longer I study God’s Word, the more convinced I am that a Christian should not be sick” (pp. 67, 56, 82, 166). But Isaiah could not have made it more clear that he had spiritual healing in mind. In the very same verse Isaiah wrote, “He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities.”

As the reader may know, the Hebrew word raphah sometimes refers to spiritual rather than physical healing. When the prophet Jeremiah says, “Return, O faithless sons; I will heal [raphah] your faithlessness” (jer. 3:22), he is obviously referring to being healed of spiritual backsliding, not physical backaches.

The apostle Peter builds on this understanding when he writes, “He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness by his wounds you have been healed” (1 Pet 2:24). Christ “bore our sin? — not our sickness.

Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that Isaiah 53:5 does refer to physical healing which, as Hinn asserts, is accessed by faith. Immediately we are faced with an unwelcome corollary. If physical healing in the atonement is accessed by faith, it stands to reason that those who do not have enough faith to be healed also do not have enough faith to be saved.

Hinn’s abuse of Scripture does not end with Isaiah 53:5. Incredibly, in an attempt to justify his claim that “it is not only God’s will for you to be healed, but it is His will that you live in health until He calls you home” (p. 63) he references Job 5:26: “You will come to the grave in full vigor.” This ignores the obvious: the statement was made by Eliphaz, who God rebuked with the words, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has” (Job 42:7). (Incidentally, one may recall that Eliphaz, like modern­day counterparts in the Faith movement, was the “friend” who accused Job of harboring dark and secret sins rather than give credence to the possibility that Job’s tragedies came from the hand of a sovereign God. Cf. Job 2:10.)

In Hinn’s world view the sovereignty of man is clearly elevated over the sovereignty of God. As Hinn himself puts it, “You will never hear me pray such faith-destroying words as ‘If it be your will, Lord, heal them.’ God intends for you to rise and be healed. Today. Tomorrow. Always!” (p. 63). Jesus and the apostles contradict Hinn in the strongest of terms not only in the Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 6:10), but throughout the New Testament as well (Matt. 26:49; James. 4:15; 1 John 5:14; Rom 1:10; 15:32).

To make matters worse, Hinn heaps guilt upon the heads of those who are not healed or who lose their healing. In dogmatic prose throughout Miracle, he blames the believer for a lack of faith (pp. 61, 77, 80, 82, 85-86), for “wrong” thinking (pp. 79, 96), or for not consistently following his three principles (pp. 60-62), four laws of healing (pp. 72-73), or seven guidelines (pp. 99-102).

Miracle is not only replete with twisted texts and dogmatic declarations regarding sickness and suffering, it is also full of tantalizing testimonies camouflaged by a thin veneer of scientific substantiation. To wit, the foreword was written by a doctor who appears to provide medical “documentation.” In reality, while medical terminology is utilized and examinations are referred to, virtually no primary documentation is presented.

According to Dr. Donald Colbert’s foreword to Miracle, two of the cases were “extremely impressive” and “carefully documented.” The first involves David Lane, who was allegedly healed of colon cancer. A careful examination of the medical records, however, indicates that the malignant tumor had apparently been removed surgically prior to an appendectomy rather than healed miraculously thereafter.

The other case concerns lupus patient Marsha Brantley, who Dr. Colbert claims experienced a “dramatic healing” which “can only be explained as a miraculous touch from God” (p. viii). This is difficult to verify in that lupus is well-known for going into spontaneous remission. What can be verified, however, are the effects of lupus — in this case, damage to the sacroiliac joint which was definitely not healed. This critical piece of information in the doctor’s report was conveniently omitted from the partial quote given in the book (p. 130).

It is one thing to say that God can heal (which I believe) and to pray that He will heal (which I do), but quite another to cite the cases in Miracle as proof. The truth is that neither Hinn’s doctrine nor his documentation stand up under careful scrutiny. If God is indeed healing through Benny Hinn, the evidence is conspicuous by its absence. Surely, with the “thousands” of healings Hinn claims (p. 163), someone, somewhere should be able to step forward and produce irrefutable evidence that an amputated limb, a missing eye, or a severed spinal cord were healed as a direct result of following the prescriptions provided by Hinn in Miracle.

Knowing that God is able to change a person’s heart and mind, I remain hopeful that Hinn’s most recent admission and repentance of teaching false doctrine will move him to withdraw this most unfortunately work from print. By so doing he will spare genuine believers who cry out” Lord, I need a miracle,” from an experience with the counterfeit.

A thorough biblical response Hinn’s heretical teachings on sickness and suffering is provided in my book Christianity in Crisis (Harvest House Publishers).


Just a few thoughts. God Bless.

Joshua

[musicllover]

Joshua,
        you said.....Knowing that God is able to change a person’s heart and mind, I remain hopeful that Hinn’s most recent admission and repentance of teaching false doctrine will move him to withdraw this most unfortunately work from print. By so doing he will spare genuine believers who cry out” Lord, I need a miracle,” from an experience with the counterfeit.

A thorough biblical response Hinn’s heretical teachings on sickness and suffering is provided in my book Christianity in Crisis (Harvest House Publishers)..


Does anyone have a site available that gives the account of Hinns repentance? I use to read Hinns books, seen him on TV a few times and thought WOW what a man of God, then a few years later heard of him being a false prophet and the resons why, so I have stirred clear of him.  I pray too that his repentance is for real.

musicllover
 

[musicllover]

I thought Lazarus was in the grave or dead for 4 days?
That didn't seem to be a problem for God, not at all!
I think through God all things are possible!
  I once disobeyed God concerning laying on hands of a woman who was blind.  I was all for it and prepared to do as He commanded, until I was told by her that the eyes in her head were mere marbles and not her own eyes at all.
I guess I believed God only in part, that He could heal her had she still had her original eyes, but He couldn't heal her because her own eyes were taken out and glass eyes added.

What miracle has conditions to it?   What can stop God from doing as He wishes?  Can embalming fluid or glass eyes deter God from His miracles?  I don't think so.

As I have grown in the Lord I realize that it is my own limited thinking that stops the miracles.  It is my disobedience that may cause someone from losing out on their miracle, at least temporarily.

I pray that God will grant me more faith, that I can do, "Greater things than these."  And I pray that He gives me enough wisdom and mercy to not knock someone He has called because my limited faith and wisdom cannot see past my flesh.

If anyone has more info on Benny Hinn I would like to know.  I have seen Benny in person and the power of God fell mightily upon me.  But then again, God used a donkey to speak once, so I suppose if He choses to use me or Benny Hinn then He will.

To God be the power and the glory forever and ever! amen
Shalom, PrairWarur

PairW,
         I have the video "Raised from the dead" I watched it with my kids, and as I've shared before there is a part of me that is a bit of a doubting Thomas, but another part that wants to believe it. In my case I doubt because of all the lies that seem to be in the world coming from the "evangalist", I can't even remember the guys name but he lived in a tower and told his tv parisherners that he would die unless that donated so much money (this was back in the late 80's I believe).......that was terrible. WOULD God demand something like that.  Embalming fluid would by NO MEANS stop God from performing a miracle and bring this man back to life, but is this of God? Living in a tower demanding so much money is that of God? I don't doubt God's power but I do doubt man's motives? I want to believe that God raised this man back to life, I want to believe that people like bonnke, Hinn are  TRUE men of God. But I don't want to be lead astray either....its our responsiblity as Christians to know God word, knowing his word will help us recognize the wolf in sheeps clothing. The word give a few guide lines to know a false prohpet,.........we will know them by the fruits they bare, the Pastor Bonnke, has got some trouble that he needs to tend too, I'm not saying that he is or isnt a false prophet, but there is much to be discovered about this man and the miracle that are happening when he is around, along with several deaths of followers getting trambled during his cursades, so I am reserving judgement but from what little I've read it doesn't look good. I am in the process of looking for more fruit..good or bad.
    Does God need a men like Bonnke, Hinn, to perform miracle? Can he do them while we sit in our own home, or church......sure, he defiantly doesn't need heritics perfomring miracles, but is sure puts a damper on the "real" miracles that I want to believe in.
musicllover

[nChrist]

Brothers And Sisters,

I don't wish to hurt anyone's feelings, but an opinion was asked for here. All I have is my own opinion, watching several of Binny Hinn's television programs, and reading a large number of articles about him.

I would first say that any man can repent, be saved, be changed, etc., so I have no idea if Binny Hinn has changed or not. If not, I would view him like a witch doctor at best. He has denied that Jesus Christ is Almighty God as a minister and has the reputation of a snake oil salesman. One of the things that bothers me the most is his lavish life and taking money from the poor. Had it not been connected to ministry, it would be criminal fraud, taking money on false pretenses.

Now, back to the original thought I tried to make clear:  I don't know the heart of Binny Hinn, and I have no idea if he has changed or not. My single biggest problem with him in the past is the denial that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. If one does this and calls themselves a minister, I would ask for who?

I hope this didn't offend anyone, as that was certainly not my intention. This is an important topic. If people are being ministered to from someone NOT of Almighty God, it is a worthy topic that needs to be discussed. This same topic came up in other threads, and many links have been given on this topic. I have no way of saying that everything I've read is absolute fact, but I do have enough to have a real burden on my heart about this topic. I would simply say that anyone who denies that Jesus Christ is Almighty God is a FALSE TEACHER who should be avoided.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Acts 26:18  To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.