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Theology => Prophecy - Current Events => Topic started by: Evangelist on January 11, 2005, 06:11:38 PM



Title: Who?
Post by: Evangelist on January 11, 2005, 06:11:38 PM
Share International announced that their Feast of Tabernacles will be held in Sept., 2005, in Albuquerque, NM, and that Christ will be there conducting private meetings with seekers.  They suggest that all who want to meet Christ and are seeking truth should make arrangements quickly, because not only will Christ be overwhelmed by seekers, things on the world stage are moving rapidly toward the cosmic realization of oneness.

The one called Christ (by Benjamin Creme and others) is also known as Maitreya, an ascended master who is the embodiment in these last days of all of the prior masters (including but not limited to: Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Muhammed, Mormo, Raganathapan, and a few others). He is also the same person who has allegedly been appearing at Christian crusades in Nigeria, and in churches ranging from Romania to Chicago. According to Reinhard Bohnke, he has been to some of his crusades, and Benny Hinn is expecting him to come to one (or more) of his.

"...and when they say Christ is here, or Christ is there, do not believe them....do not go..."


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Soldier4Christ on January 11, 2005, 06:16:38 PM
"...and when they say Christ is here, or Christ is there, do not believe them....do not go..."

Amen, Evangilist,

I thought of the same verse before I even got halfway through the first paragraph.



Title: Re:Who?
Post by: musicllover on January 12, 2005, 12:58:34 AM
Share International announced that their Feast of Tabernacles will be held in Sept., 2005, in Albuquerque, NM, and that Christ will be there conducting private meetings with seekers.  They suggest that all who want to meet Christ and are seeking truth should make arrangements quickly, because not only will Christ be overwhelmed by seekers, things on the world stage are moving rapidly toward the cosmic realization of oneness.

The one called Christ (by Benjamin Creme and others) is also known as Maitreya, an ascended master who is the embodiment in these last days of all of the prior masters (including but not limited to: Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Muhammed, Mormo, Raganathapan, and a few others). He is also the same person who has allegedly been appearing at Christian crusades in Nigeria, and in churches ranging from Romania to Chicago. According to Reinhard Bohnke, he has been to some of his crusades, and Benny Hinn is expecting him to come to one (or more) of his.

"...and when they say Christ is here, or Christ is there, do not believe them....do not go..."

Bro Hank,
          THanks for the info, darn I think am I sick that week end... :P
      Can you tell me any thing about this Reinhard Bohnke? I bought a video of a man raised back to life during one of his cursades.


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Shammu on January 12, 2005, 02:10:26 AM
"...and when they say Christ is here, or Christ is there, do not believe them....do not go..."
Jesus warned that in the last days there will arise counterfeit Christs who would masquerade as the Messiah and claim to be the savior of the world. Matthew 24:4-5 Jesus answered;  "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.”


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Allinall on January 12, 2005, 11:25:11 AM
Share International announced that their Feast of Tabernacles will be held in Sept., 2005, in Albuquerque, NM, and that Christ will be there conducting private meetings with seekers.  They suggest that all who want to meet Christ and are seeking truth should make arrangements quickly, because not only will Christ be overwhelmed by seekers, things on the world stage are moving rapidly toward the cosmic realization of oneness.

The one called Christ (by Benjamin Creme and others) is also known as Maitreya, an ascended master who is the embodiment in these last days of all of the prior masters (including but not limited to: Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Muhammed, Mormo, Raganathapan, and a few others). He is also the same person who has allegedly been appearing at Christian crusades in Nigeria, and in churches ranging from Romania to Chicago. According to Reinhard Bohnke, he has been to some of his crusades, and Benny Hinn is expecting him to come to one (or more) of his.

"...and when they say Christ is here, or Christ is there, do not believe them....do not go..."

I must be out of the loop.  Never heard of the guy.  The one being called Christ, not the real Jesus I know and love, mind you... :D :)  

The end is near I'm a thinkin'!!!


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Evangelist on January 12, 2005, 11:33:56 AM
I must be out of the loop.  Never heard of the guy.  The one being called Christ, not the real Jesus I know and love, mind you... :D :)  

The end is near I'm a thinkin'!!!

Out of the loop?  Nah!  Just loopy!! ;D

Since about 1993, Share Int'l has been taking out occasional full page ads in various large cities announcing the "arrival of the Christ", and forthcoming appearances.  Run a web search for Maitreya or Benjamin Creme, his ardent supporter. You'll be amazed.

And yes, the end is near.  Jesus began his Olivet discourse with "be not deceived..." and ended with an example of the deception, that being claims that Christ is come.  In the middle got stuck all the other stuff about wars, pestilence, famines, etc., but He also said "...don't worry, the end is not quite yet...", then proceeded to (imo) tell us what the really big indidcator was.  Paul echoed that exactly in Thess. with the statement concerning apostasy.

That apostasy is evident in so many of the "leading" televangelists and their proclamations either about being "little Christ's on this earth" or how Christ is appearing to Arabs, or is going to be in one of their crusades.

And the church sleeps on.......and buys into it.  :'(


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Evangelist on January 12, 2005, 11:54:20 AM
Bro Hank,
          THanks for the info, darn I think am I sick that week end... :P
      Can you tell me any thing about this Reinhard Bohnke? I bought a video of a man raised back to life during one of his cursades.

ML....Bonnke is a german evangelist that has been spending all his time in Africa. His "crusades" are aimed predominately at healing and miracles, although he claims many conversions. He at one point spoke to over 1 million at one time in a stadium in Nigeria. During 2003, I think it was, he claimed over 9 million conversions.

Althought there have been many claims of healings, and even the dead being brought back, there has been absolutely no corroboration.

This link http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/bonnke_raisedpastor.asp gives some of the story.

This link http://www.moriel.org/discernment/pastor_raised_from_dead_at_rheinhard_bonnke_event.htm gives more.

And yet another: http://www.letusreason.org/popteac13.htm


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Allinall on January 12, 2005, 02:03:27 PM
I must be out of the loop.  Never heard of the guy.  The one being called Christ, not the real Jesus I know and love, mind you... :D :)  

The end is near I'm a thinkin'!!!


Out of the loop?  Nah!  Just loopy!! ;D

Since about 1993, Share Int'l has been taking out occasional full page ads in various large cities announcing the "arrival of the Christ", and forthcoming appearances.  Run a web search for Maitreya or Benjamin Creme, his ardent supporter. You'll be amazed.

And yes, the end is near.  Jesus began his Olivet discourse with "be not deceived..." and ended with an example of the deception, that being claims that Christ is come.  In the middle got stuck all the other stuff about wars, pestilence, famines, etc., but He also said "...don't worry, the end is not quite yet...", then proceeded to (imo) tell us what the really big indidcator was.  Paul echoed that exactly in Thess. with the statement concerning apostasy.

That apostasy is evident in so many of the "leading" televangelists and their proclamations either about being "little Christ's on this earth" or how Christ is appearing to Arabs, or is going to be in one of their crusades.

And the church sleeps on.......and buys into it.  :'(

hehe...he said I'm loopy!  True... ;D

I've heard of the Maitreya fella before, but ignored him because I know the truth.  That, and I'm of an opinion that I'll be long gone before the real antichrist comes into power.

But there are alot of believers, who have a hard time discerning.  :'(


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Bronzesnake on January 12, 2005, 02:03:27 PM
 What a coincidence...After I read this thread this morning I went upstairs and turned on our local Christian channel, and lo and behold - The Benny Hinn show was on and his guest? Bonkers himself. I don't know what it is, but, when I watch Hinn I just can't believe he is of God...same think for Bonkers. I don't trust either of them.

 When I first posted this Bohnke raising the dead story several months back, I had watched it on another "Christian" show called the 700 Club, which I don't normally watch as I don't trust them either, however, when I was flipping through channels the story caught my attention, and I posted it.

 Now I'm hearing that these sideshow Bob's are claiming that Jesus has been appearing at various locations around the world! I didn't see Him, and that's proof positive He hasn't arrived...

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 This is just one verse of many others which prove Jesus hasn't returned...yet. How can these bozos claim to be ministers of God and not understand these verses?

Benny Sinn and Reinhard Bunk!

Bronzesnake


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Soldier4Christ on January 12, 2005, 02:45:11 PM
Quote
How can these bozos claim to be ministers of God and not understand these verses?

Ministers of a FALSE god that are blinded to the truth of the Word of God.





Title: Re:Who?
Post by: cris on January 12, 2005, 02:49:14 PM

I know that Maitreya is a false christ so my comment has absolutely nothing to do with him or his followers.


My question is how does John 14:12-14 fit in today with the miracles that are supposedly happening?  12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it."

Shouldn't we, as followers of Christ, be doing these things in His name?  Shouldn't miracles be commonplace?

Anybody?   Any thoughts?



Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Jemidon2004 on January 12, 2005, 03:32:44 PM
It is kind of sad that the church buys in to this false teaching. Any sensible student of the Word who will take the time to do the reasearch with an open mind and heart, will see, plainly i might add, that Christ won't step foot back on this earth until He comes in Glory and descends upon the mount of Olives at the END of the Tribulation period with His Glorious Appearing i.e. our Blessed HOPE!!! I know that might irk some Christians out there, but i urge you, get in the Word and look at it in the context it was written. It may take you learning Hebrew, or Greek, but the Truths that will be revealed will be life-changing... I pray that those who are left in the church who still adhere to God's Word, will stand up and re-claim that which is God's instead of that which is "maitreya's" Nowhere is Jesus' name maitreya. HE IS THE ALMIGHTY, HIS NAME IS YESHUA, HE IS THE KING OF KINGS AND THE LORD OF LORD, AND HE SITS AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER!!!! So now, can the maitreya claim that. NO! He shall recieve his reward for claiming he is Christ....and his reward isn't going to be pretty. God Bless.

Joshua


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Evangelist on January 12, 2005, 04:28:41 PM

I know that Maitreya is a false christ so my comment has absolutely nothing to do with him or his followers.


My question is how does John 14:12-14 fit in today with the miracles that are supposedly happening?  12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it."

Shouldn't we, as followers of Christ, be doing these things in His name?  Shouldn't miracles be commonplace?

Anybody?   Any thoughts?



Two things, Cris....first being that most people don't read Deut. 13 very closely. While the sign of a true prophet is given as "what they say comes to pass...", a little later on God also says that He will ALLOW a false prophet to have signs and miracles happen TO TEST the believer, because what the false prophet is saying leads AWAY from God.

This is very true in most of what is being done today in His name by these false teachers and "prophets."  They emphasize the kingdom of self ( I can have anything because I'm a child of God), and replace Christ's sacrifice with self-sacrifice.

Secondly, there are miracles happening....you just don't hear about them because they aren't fake, they aren't plastered all over TV and radio and are not being exploited for the purpose of building up somebodys ministry or name.

I've seen a few.  ;D


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Evangelist on January 12, 2005, 04:35:54 PM
It is kind of sad that the church buys in to this false teaching. Any sensible student of the Word who will take the time to do the reasearch with an open mind and heart, will see, plainly i might add, that Christ won't step foot back on this earth until He comes in Glory and descends upon the mount of Olives at the END of the Tribulation period with His Glorious Appearing i.e. our Blessed HOPE!!! I know that might irk some Christians out there, but i urge you, get in the Word and look at it in the context it was written. It may take you learning Hebrew, or Greek, but the Truths that will be revealed will be life-changing... I pray that those who are left in the church who still adhere to God's Word, will stand up and re-claim that which is God's instead of that which is "maitreya's" Nowhere is Jesus' name maitreya. HE IS THE ALMIGHTY, HIS NAME IS YESHUA, HE IS THE KING OF KINGS AND THE LORD OF LORD, AND HE SITS AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER!!!! So now, can the maitreya claim that. NO! He shall recieve his reward for claiming he is Christ....and his reward isn't going to be pretty. God Bless.

Joshua

Hi Joshua.

Who ever said that Christians were sensible?  ???

Obviously, we differ on the timing of His return, but I won't go into that. I will ask though, if you have done a serious look at "the blessed hope?"
Scripture seems to indicate it as being something a little different from the "Glorious Appearing," although there is a connection with the event.


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Soldier4Christ on January 12, 2005, 04:53:55 PM

I know that Maitreya is a false christ so my comment has absolutely nothing to do with him or his followers.


My question is how does John 14:12-14 fit in today with the miracles that are supposedly happening?  12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it."

Shouldn't we, as followers of Christ, be doing these things in His name?  Shouldn't miracles be commonplace?

Anybody?   Any thoughts?



Two things, Cris....first being that most people don't read Deut. 13 very closely. While the sign of a true prophet is given as "what they say comes to pass...", a little later on God also says that He will ALLOW a false prophet to have signs and miracles happen TO TEST the believer, because what the false prophet is saying leads AWAY from God.

This is very true in most of what is being done today in His name by these false teachers and "prophets."  They emphasize the kingdom of self ( I can have anything because I'm a child of God), and replace Christ's sacrifice with self-sacrifice.

Secondly, there are miracles happening....you just don't hear about them because they aren't fake, they aren't plastered all over TV and radio and are not being exploited for the purpose of building up somebodys ministry or name.

I've seen a few.
 ;D

Amen, to that Evangelist!



Title: Re:Who?
Post by: cris on January 12, 2005, 07:05:49 PM

I know that Maitreya is a false christ so my comment has absolutely nothing to do with him or his followers.


My question is how does John 14:12-14 fit in today with the miracles that are supposedly happening?  12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it."

Shouldn't we, as followers of Christ, be doing these things in His name?  Shouldn't miracles be commonplace?

Anybody?   Any thoughts?



Two things, Cris....first being that most people don't read Deut. 13 very closely. While the sign of a true prophet is given as "what they say comes to pass...", a little later on God also says that He will ALLOW a false prophet to have signs and miracles happen TO TEST the believer, because what the false prophet is saying leads AWAY from God.

This is very true in most of what is being done today in His name by these false teachers and "prophets."  They emphasize the kingdom of self ( I can have anything because I'm a child of God), and replace Christ's sacrifice with self-sacrifice.

Secondly, there are miracles happening....you just don't hear about them because they aren't fake, they aren't plastered all over TV and radio and are not being exploited for the purpose of building up somebodys ministry or name.

I've seen a few.  ;D


 ???

 
I was asking about John 14:12-14.  I know what Deuteronomy 13 says. I just read it. I'm not seeing the connection. It says we should stone them to death, among other things.

Maybe re-phrasing will help.  What are the examples of John 14:12-14 in 2005?  

Can you give some detail on the miracles you've seen?

Thanks
cris




Title: Re:Who?
Post by: musicllover on January 13, 2005, 12:37:23 AM
Bro Hank,
          THanks for the info, darn I think am I sick that week end... :P
      Can you tell me any thing about this Reinhard Bohnke? I bought a video of a man raised back to life during one of his cursades.

ML....Bonnke is a german evangelist that has been spending all his time in Africa. His "crusades" are aimed predominately at healing and miracles, although he claims many conversions. He at one point spoke to over 1 million at one time in a stadium in Nigeria. During 2003, I think it was, he claimed over 9 million conversions.

Althought there have been many claims of healings, and even the dead being brought back, there has been absolutely no corroboration.

This link http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/bonnke_raisedpastor.asp gives some of the story.

This link http://www.moriel.org/discernment/pastor_raised_from_dead_at_rheinhard_bonnke_event.htm gives more.

And yet another: http://www.letusreason.org/popteac13.htm

THanks for the info I'll be looking these up,
musicllover


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Jemidon2004 on January 13, 2005, 02:43:02 PM
hee hee...i got a bit carried away with the blessed hope thing. Christ's return is part of the blessed hope. i believe Paul puts it down as the blessed hope of our salvation. I also see the Second coming of Christ as part of the blessed hope of the tribulation saints. They will eagerly look forward to Christ's return and His glorious appearing. I believe Scripture refers to the Glorious appearing as happening at megiddo at the great battle, then He sets foot on the Mount of Olives during or after the battle in Jerusalem. I could be wrong, but that's what comes to mind as I think about it. I dont have all the Scriptures in front of me, so I can't quote anything concrete. Sorry...lol. If i'm not mistaken, the blessed hope for us is the return for His Church, i.e. the Rapture. That's just what i can remember off the top of my head. cause i don't have my bibles or commentary in front of me. I mean, i could use online resources, but nothing beats turning pages to search something up. I hope that clarified my position. Oh yea, when i say sensible, i mean those who are willing to get off the tail and get into God's Word and seek His will and know that until Jesus of Nazareth steps foot on the Mount of Olives, Christ will not walk this earth in either his human form or his glorified form. God Bless

Joshua


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Evangelist on January 13, 2005, 03:31:19 PM
hee hee...i got a bit carried away with the blessed hope thing. Christ's return is part of the blessed hope. i believe Paul puts it down as the blessed hope of our salvation. I also see the Second coming of Christ as part of the blessed hope of the tribulation saints. They will eagerly look forward to Christ's return and His glorious appearing. I believe Scripture refers to the Glorious appearing as happening at megiddo at the great battle, then He sets foot on the Mount of Olives during or after the battle in Jerusalem. I could be wrong, but that's what comes to mind as I think about it. I dont have all the Scriptures in front of me, so I can't quote anything concrete. Sorry...lol. If i'm not mistaken, the blessed hope for us is the return for His Church, i.e. the Rapture. That's just what i can remember off the top of my head. cause i don't have my bibles or commentary in front of me. I mean, i could use online resources, but nothing beats turning pages to search something up. I hope that clarified my position. Oh yea, when i say sensible, i mean those who are willing to get off the tail and get into God's Word and seek His will and know that until Jesus of Nazareth steps foot on the Mount of Olives, Christ will not walk this earth in either his human form or his glorified form. God Bless

Joshua

No es problema.  While I'm in partial agreement about the blessed hope (certainly it is more than hope...it's a surety!), when Paul spoke of the hope, it was (twice) while he was being questioned for his beliefs as a pharisee...that specifically being the resurrection.

As to Meggido, I think scrip shows that the order of business begins with Jesus setting foot on the Mt. of Olives. And btw, who is it that is with Him when He's riding down from heaven?  Then, after landing, He defeats the enemy with a sharp sword (out of His mouth)....another way of saying He has such a way with words that He'll just slay you!!  ;D

Gotcha on the sensible. You must be referring to those who won't go near Pensacola or Toronto.  ;)


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Jemidon2004 on January 13, 2005, 03:36:57 PM
LOL... WE WILL BE RIDING WITH HIM...I hope you're a pre-tribulationalist...yea...when Jesus comes back...He's not going to be too happy. I mean He'll execute rightous judgement, but He's coming to do business. and my business with Him will already be done with as far as His wrath is concerned...lol. anywho i'm outta here. God Bless.

In Christ and Under God,
Joshua


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: musicllover on January 14, 2005, 11:28:43 PM
Bro Hank,
          THanks for the info, darn I think am I sick that week end... :P
      Can you tell me any thing about this Reinhard Bohnke? I bought a video of a man raised back to life during one of his cursades.

ML....Bonnke is a german evangelist that has been spending all his time in Africa. His "crusades" are aimed predominately at healing and miracles, although he claims many conversions. He at one point spoke to over 1 million at one time in a stadium in Nigeria. During 2003, I think it was, he claimed over 9 million conversions.

Althought there have been many claims of healings, and even the dead being brought back, there has been absolutely no corroboration.

This link http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/bonnke_raisedpastor.asp gives some of the story.

This link http://www.moriel.org/discernment/pastor_raised_from_dead_at_rheinhard_bonnke_event.htm gives more.

And yet another: http://www.letusreason.org/popteac13.htm

THanks for the info I'll be looking these up,
musicllover

Hey, I looked at these sites, and a few more that was on google. I guess I'm not surprised cause even when I watched the tape I was questioning the whole raised from the dead for 3 days think, not that God can't do that, but I don't know,  the man was embalmed already (even if its not the same as they do in the states), as much as I want to believe it something about this man being dead 3 days bothered me, Jesus is the only man to have done that, and I just wasn't sure that God would do that all again with any man.  I don't know what to think of this Pastor Bonnke person, I hate to deframe a man of God, but if he is a false prophet then he needs burned at the stake. But now I'm wondering about Pat Robertston and some the 700 club?
musicllover


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Evangelist on January 15, 2005, 08:00:33 AM
But now I'm wondering about Pat Robertston and some the 700 club?
musicllover

 ;D  Keep wondering....and looking.


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: at_the_Cross on January 15, 2005, 02:36:49 PM
But now I'm wondering about Pat Robertston and some the 700 club?
musicllover

 ;D  Keep wondering....and looking.

Up that is  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Evangelist on January 15, 2005, 03:08:17 PM
But now I'm wondering about Pat Robertston and some the 700 club?
musicllover

 ;D  Keep wondering....and looking.

Up that is  ;D ;D ;D

YUP! Eyes on de skies, guys...our HERO cometh!!!
(http://www.john812.com/img/flyaway.gif)


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: nChrist on January 15, 2005, 04:40:15 PM
Evangelist,

Brother Hank,

WHAT A DAY OF REJOICING THAT WILL BE!!

It might be today!

Love In Christ,
Tom

1Corinthians 10:31  Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.



Title: Re:Who?
Post by: PrairWarur on January 17, 2005, 12:57:28 PM
I thought Lazarus was in the grave or dead for 4 days?
That didn't seem to be a problem for God, not at all!
I think through God all things are possible!
  I once disobeyed God concerning laying on hands of a woman who was blind.  I was all for it and prepared to do as He commanded, until I was told by her that the eyes in her head were mere marbles and not her own eyes at all.
I guess I believed God only in part, that He could heal her had she still had her original eyes, but He couldn't heal her because her own eyes were taken out and glass eyes added.

What miracle has conditions to it?   What can stop God from doing as He wishes?  Can embalming fluid or glass eyes deter God from His miracles?  I don't think so.

As I have grown in the Lord I realize that it is my own limited thinking that stops the miracles.  It is my disobedience that may cause someone from losing out on their miracle, at least temporarily.

I pray that God will grant me more faith, that I can do, "Greater things than these."  And I pray that He gives me enough wisdom and mercy to not knock someone He has called because my limited faith and wisdom cannot see past my flesh.

If anyone has more info on Benny Hinn I would like to know.  I have seen Benny in person and the power of God fell mightily upon me.  But then again, God used a donkey to speak once, so I suppose if He choses to use me or Benny Hinn then He will.

To God be the power and the glory forever and ever! amen
Shalom, PrairWarur


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Jemidon2004 on January 17, 2005, 03:17:56 PM
well, i've never seen hinn in person, but i do have an interesting article for you if i can find it on my computer...brb.

A Summary Critique: Lord, I Need a Miracle
Benny Hinn, (Thomas Nelson, 1993)
by Hendrik H. Hanegraaff
 
 

“Lord, I need a miracle!” How often have you heard those words? More to the point, how often have you uttered those words? Sooner or later as each of us journeys down the road of life, we will cry out to God for relief from the specter of sickness and suffering. Those cries are often intensified dramatically when we beseech the Lord to provide a miracle for a loved one, especially a child.

I shall never forget the desperation I felt when my son, David, suffered a critical eye injury. In one blinding instant my whole world seemed to fall apart. One moment there was excitement, the next excruciating pain. Instinctively, I cried out, Lord, David and I need a miracle!”

Benny Hinn’s latest book, Lord, I Need a Miracle (hereafter Miracle), appeals to multitudes who — like I did — face physical exigencies that threaten to overwhelm their lives. Tragically, those who purchase Miracle in desperation will inevitably discover that what it promises, it does not provide.

Hinn promises that the reader will “discover how to have victory over disease and live a life full of health and happiness” (jacket flap). But he bases this promise on a variety of biblical texts wrenched out of context.

Hinn is fond of citing Isaiah 53:5 (“by his stripes we are healed”) to justify his claim. The longer I study God’s Word, the more convinced I am that a Christian should not be sick” (pp. 67, 56, 82, 166). But Isaiah could not have made it more clear that he had spiritual healing in mind. In the very same verse Isaiah wrote, “He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities.”

As the reader may know, the Hebrew word raphah sometimes refers to spiritual rather than physical healing. When the prophet Jeremiah says, “Return, O faithless sons; I will heal [raphah] your faithlessness” (jer. 3:22), he is obviously referring to being healed of spiritual backsliding, not physical backaches.

The apostle Peter builds on this understanding when he writes, “He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness by his wounds you have been healed” (1 Pet 2:24). Christ “bore our sin? — not our sickness.

Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that Isaiah 53:5 does refer to physical healing which, as Hinn asserts, is accessed by faith. Immediately we are faced with an unwelcome corollary. If physical healing in the atonement is accessed by faith, it stands to reason that those who do not have enough faith to be healed also do not have enough faith to be saved.

Hinn’s abuse of Scripture does not end with Isaiah 53:5. Incredibly, in an attempt to justify his claim that “it is not only God’s will for you to be healed, but it is His will that you live in health until He calls you home” (p. 63) he references Job 5:26: “You will come to the grave in full vigor.” This ignores the obvious: the statement was made by Eliphaz, who God rebuked with the words, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has” (Job 42:7). (Incidentally, one may recall that Eliphaz, like modern­day counterparts in the Faith movement, was the “friend” who accused Job of harboring dark and secret sins rather than give credence to the possibility that Job’s tragedies came from the hand of a sovereign God. Cf. Job 2:10.)

In Hinn’s world view the sovereignty of man is clearly elevated over the sovereignty of God. As Hinn himself puts it, “You will never hear me pray such faith-destroying words as ‘If it be your will, Lord, heal them.’ God intends for you to rise and be healed. Today. Tomorrow. Always!” (p. 63). Jesus and the apostles contradict Hinn in the strongest of terms not only in the Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 6:10), but throughout the New Testament as well (Matt. 26:49; James. 4:15; 1 John 5:14; Rom 1:10; 15:32).

To make matters worse, Hinn heaps guilt upon the heads of those who are not healed or who lose their healing. In dogmatic prose throughout Miracle, he blames the believer for a lack of faith (pp. 61, 77, 80, 82, 85-86), for “wrong” thinking (pp. 79, 96), or for not consistently following his three principles (pp. 60-62), four laws of healing (pp. 72-73), or seven guidelines (pp. 99-102).

Miracle is not only replete with twisted texts and dogmatic declarations regarding sickness and suffering, it is also full of tantalizing testimonies camouflaged by a thin veneer of scientific substantiation. To wit, the foreword was written by a doctor who appears to provide medical “documentation.” In reality, while medical terminology is utilized and examinations are referred to, virtually no primary documentation is presented.

According to Dr. Donald Colbert’s foreword to Miracle, two of the cases were “extremely impressive” and “carefully documented.” The first involves David Lane, who was allegedly healed of colon cancer. A careful examination of the medical records, however, indicates that the malignant tumor had apparently been removed surgically prior to an appendectomy rather than healed miraculously thereafter.

The other case concerns lupus patient Marsha Brantley, who Dr. Colbert claims experienced a “dramatic healing” which “can only be explained as a miraculous touch from God” (p. viii). This is difficult to verify in that lupus is well-known for going into spontaneous remission. What can be verified, however, are the effects of lupus — in this case, damage to the sacroiliac joint which was definitely not healed. This critical piece of information in the doctor’s report was conveniently omitted from the partial quote given in the book (p. 130).

It is one thing to say that God can heal (which I believe) and to pray that He will heal (which I do), but quite another to cite the cases in Miracle as proof. The truth is that neither Hinn’s doctrine nor his documentation stand up under careful scrutiny. If God is indeed healing through Benny Hinn, the evidence is conspicuous by its absence. Surely, with the “thousands” of healings Hinn claims (p. 163), someone, somewhere should be able to step forward and produce irrefutable evidence that an amputated limb, a missing eye, or a severed spinal cord were healed as a direct result of following the prescriptions provided by Hinn in Miracle.

Knowing that God is able to change a person’s heart and mind, I remain hopeful that Hinn’s most recent admission and repentance of teaching false doctrine will move him to withdraw this most unfortunately work from print. By so doing he will spare genuine believers who cry out” Lord, I need a miracle,” from an experience with the counterfeit.

A thorough biblical response Hinn’s heretical teachings on sickness and suffering is provided in my book Christianity in Crisis (Harvest House Publishers).


Just a few thoughts. God Bless.

Joshua


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: musicllover on January 17, 2005, 04:44:41 PM
Joshua,
        you said.....Knowing that God is able to change a person’s heart and mind, I remain hopeful that Hinn’s most recent admission and repentance of teaching false doctrine will move him to withdraw this most unfortunately work from print. By so doing he will spare genuine believers who cry out” Lord, I need a miracle,” from an experience with the counterfeit.

A thorough biblical response Hinn’s heretical teachings on sickness and suffering is provided in my book Christianity in Crisis (Harvest House Publishers)..


Does anyone have a site available that gives the account of Hinns repentance? I use to read Hinns books, seen him on TV a few times and thought WOW what a man of God, then a few years later heard of him being a false prophet and the resons why, so I have stirred clear of him.  I pray too that his repentance is for real.

musicllover
 


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: musicllover on January 17, 2005, 05:24:03 PM
I thought Lazarus was in the grave or dead for 4 days?
That didn't seem to be a problem for God, not at all!
I think through God all things are possible!
  I once disobeyed God concerning laying on hands of a woman who was blind.  I was all for it and prepared to do as He commanded, until I was told by her that the eyes in her head were mere marbles and not her own eyes at all.
I guess I believed God only in part, that He could heal her had she still had her original eyes, but He couldn't heal her because her own eyes were taken out and glass eyes added.

What miracle has conditions to it?   What can stop God from doing as He wishes?  Can embalming fluid or glass eyes deter God from His miracles?  I don't think so.

As I have grown in the Lord I realize that it is my own limited thinking that stops the miracles.  It is my disobedience that may cause someone from losing out on their miracle, at least temporarily.

I pray that God will grant me more faith, that I can do, "Greater things than these."  And I pray that He gives me enough wisdom and mercy to not knock someone He has called because my limited faith and wisdom cannot see past my flesh.

If anyone has more info on Benny Hinn I would like to know.  I have seen Benny in person and the power of God fell mightily upon me.  But then again, God used a donkey to speak once, so I suppose if He choses to use me or Benny Hinn then He will.

To God be the power and the glory forever and ever! amen
Shalom, PrairWarur

PairW,
         I have the video "Raised from the dead" I watched it with my kids, and as I've shared before there is a part of me that is a bit of a doubting Thomas, but another part that wants to believe it. In my case I doubt because of all the lies that seem to be in the world coming from the "evangalist", I can't even remember the guys name but he lived in a tower and told his tv parisherners that he would die unless that donated so much money (this was back in the late 80's I believe).......that was terrible. WOULD God demand something like that.  Embalming fluid would by NO MEANS stop God from performing a miracle and bring this man back to life, but is this of God? Living in a tower demanding so much money is that of God? I don't doubt God's power but I do doubt man's motives? I want to believe that God raised this man back to life, I want to believe that people like bonnke, Hinn are  TRUE men of God. But I don't want to be lead astray either....its our responsiblity as Christians to know God word, knowing his word will help us recognize the wolf in sheeps clothing. The word give a few guide lines to know a false prohpet,.........we will know them by the fruits they bare, the Pastor Bonnke, has got some trouble that he needs to tend too, I'm not saying that he is or isnt a false prophet, but there is much to be discovered about this man and the miracle that are happening when he is around, along with several deaths of followers getting trambled during his cursades, so I am reserving judgement but from what little I've read it doesn't look good. I am in the process of looking for more fruit..good or bad.
    Does God need a men like Bonnke, Hinn, to perform miracle? Can he do them while we sit in our own home, or church......sure, he defiantly doesn't need heritics perfomring miracles, but is sure puts a damper on the "real" miracles that I want to believe in.
musicllover


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: nChrist on January 17, 2005, 05:24:20 PM
Brothers And Sisters,

I don't wish to hurt anyone's feelings, but an opinion was asked for here. All I have is my own opinion, watching several of Binny Hinn's television programs, and reading a large number of articles about him.

I would first say that any man can repent, be saved, be changed, etc., so I have no idea if Binny Hinn has changed or not. If not, I would view him like a witch doctor at best. He has denied that Jesus Christ is Almighty God as a minister and has the reputation of a snake oil salesman. One of the things that bothers me the most is his lavish life and taking money from the poor. Had it not been connected to ministry, it would be criminal fraud, taking money on false pretenses.

Now, back to the original thought I tried to make clear:  I don't know the heart of Binny Hinn, and I have no idea if he has changed or not. My single biggest problem with him in the past is the denial that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. If one does this and calls themselves a minister, I would ask for who?

I hope this didn't offend anyone, as that was certainly not my intention. This is an important topic. If people are being ministered to from someone NOT of Almighty God, it is a worthy topic that needs to be discussed. This same topic came up in other threads, and many links have been given on this topic. I have no way of saying that everything I've read is absolute fact, but I do have enough to have a real burden on my heart about this topic. I would simply say that anyone who denies that Jesus Christ is Almighty God is a FALSE TEACHER who should be avoided.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Acts 26:18  To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: musicllover on January 17, 2005, 05:43:22 PM
Brothers And Sisters,

I don't wish to hurt anyone's feelings, but an opinion was asked for here. All I have is my own opinion, watching several of Binny Hinn's television programs, and reading a large number of articles about him.

I would first say that any man can repent, be saved, be changed, etc., so I have no idea if Binny Hinn has changed or not. If not, I would view him like a witch doctor at best. He has denied that Jesus Christ is Almighty God as a minister and has the reputation of a snake oil salesman. One of the things that bothers me the most is his lavish life and taking money from the poor. Had it not been connected to ministry, it would be criminal fraud, taking money on false pretenses.

Now, back to the original thought I tried to make clear:  I don't know the heart of Binny Hinn, and I have no idea if he has changed or not. My single biggest problem with him in the past is the denial that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. If one does this and calls themselves a minister, I would ask for who?

I hope this didn't offend anyone, as that was certainly not my intention. This is an important topic. If people are being ministered to from someone NOT of Almighty God, it is a worthy topic that needs to be discussed. This same topic came up in other threads, and many links have been given on this topic. I have no way of saying that everything I've read is absolute fact, but I do have enough to have a real burden on my heart about this topic. I would simply say that anyone who denies that Jesus Christ is Almighty God is a FALSE TEACHER who should be avoided.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Acts 26:18  To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Tom,
       If Hinn said that I agree with you. I had no idea that he siad anything like that. I stopped watching him or reading his books when it came out that he'd hired a women to claim she'd been healing. That is terrilbe and he still call himself a minister of the word. DISGUSTING!

musicllover

musicllover


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: nChrist on January 17, 2005, 06:33:38 PM
Quote
MusicLover Said:

Tom,
      If Hinn said that I agree with you. I had no idea that he said anything like that. I stopped watching him or reading his books when it came out that he'd hired a women to claim she'd been healing. That is terrible and he still call himself a minister of the word. DISGUSTING!

musicllover

Sister, there are quite a few so-called ministries who deny that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. Some of them are fairly large. The ones I am thinking about claim Almighty God, but they deny Jesus Christ. The largest example would be Islam, yet they call their God Allah. Our so-called ministries who teach that Jesus Christ was made into a God from an angel, just a man, just a prophet, or just anyone other than Almighty God manifest in the flesh are just as bad or worse than Islam. It appears that new cults are rising up on every corner who deny that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. On the surface, they may look somewhat reasonable, but there is much more to find out after they hook someone. I must repeat that I have no idea what Binny Hinn believes now. Only God knows the heart.

I think that one simple question is a wonderful test before anyone should listen to a preacher:

Is Jesus Christ Almighty God?

If their answer is "NO", they are working for the devil - plain and simple. We MUST remember that the devil can quote Scripture, and his deceptions are no less tempting than they've been for thousands of years. If anything, the devil's deceptions are better and more clever now than ever. The devil believes in Jesus Christ, but not as Lord and Saviour. Some people claim to have Jesus Christ in their hearts, yet they deny that HE is Almighty God. The devil does not want the lost to believe that Almighty God, made manifest in the flesh, died on the Cross for us. The devil loses totally when we believe that Jesus Christ is Almighty God and HE loved us enough to die for us. Jesus Christ, the CROSS, and HIM arising from the dead to be our Lord and Saviour forever is the devil's worst nightmare.

Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable GIFT, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour Forever!

Love In Christ,
Tom

II Timothy 3:15  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: at_the_Cross on January 17, 2005, 10:28:01 PM
2 Corinthians 13:5-9. 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.
8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
9 For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Evangelist on January 23, 2005, 09:28:49 AM
Hinn's "repentence" was apparently verbal only. He agreed with several who went to him that some of his teachings were in doctrinal error, and promised to stop. He has continued anyway. Check Ole Anthony at the Trinity Foundation for more on that.

He has also refused to join the Christian Association for Financial Accountability, a watchdog org that puts a stamp of approval on Christian ministries. Those who don't mind opening their books join....those who want to keep things hidden don't.

Below are some quotes from Hinn that are clearly wrong.

God has 9 parts (tri-theistic).
     A. God has a body, soul and spirit.
     B. Jesus has a body, soul and spirit.
     C. Holy Spirit has a body, soul and spirit. (Benny Hinn, Benny Hinn broadcast, recorded 10/13/90)
(NOTE: Allegedly Hinn later recanted this ascertion, but his view of the Godhead is still unclear.)

 Christians are little messiahs. Christians are little gods. (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-thon (TBN), recorded November 1990)

 Jesus at His death became one with Satan. (Benny Hinn, Benny Hinn broadcast, recorded 12/15/90)

 Poverty comes from Hell. Prosperity comes from Heaven. Adam had complete dominion over the earth and all it contains. A. Adam could fly like a bird. B. Adam could swim underwater and breathe like a fish. Adam went to the moon. Adam walked on water. Adam was a super being, He was the first superman that lived. Adam had dominion over the sun, moon & stars. Christians do not have Christ in their hearts. Sow a big seed, when you confess it, you are activating the supernatural forces of God. (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-thon (TBN), recorded November 1990)

 When you don't give money, it shows that you have the devil's nature. (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-thon (TBN), recorded 4/21/91)

 "He [Jesus] who is righteous by choice said, 'The only way I can stop sin is by Me becoming it. I can't just stop it by letting it touch Me; I and it must become one.' Hear this! He who is the nature of God became the nature of Satan where He became sin!" (Benny Hinn, TBN, 12/1/90).

 Hinn revealed that he periodically visits (Kathryn) Kuhlman's grave and that he is one of the few with a key to gain access to it. He also visits Aimee (McPherson's) grave , where he says: "I felt a terrific anointing ... I was shaking all over ... trembling under the power of God ... `Dear God,' I said, `I feel the anointing.' ... I believe the anointing has lingered over Aimee's body." (Benny Hinn, April 7, 1991 sermon)

 Benny Hinn said:
 Never, ever, ever go to the Lord and say, 'If it be thy will';
 We are 'little gods' and even part of God with all the power of God; and
 We are 'little messiahs,' everything that Jesus ever was."
from a 1992 Media Spotlight Special Report (P.O. Box 290, Redmond, WA 98073).

 "When one is born again by faith in Jesus, he is given a new spirit man that wasn't there before--a spirit man that is divine in nature and God-like" (Benny Hinn, Our Position in Christ [sermon tape]).

 "Though we are not Almighty God Himself, nevertheless, we are now divine" (Benny Hinn, 12/1/90, TBN)


 "Had He (Jesus) not offered Himself through the Holy Ghost, He would not be accepted in the eyes of God the Father. Nor would He have endured the sufferings of the cross. Had He not presented Himself through the Holy Ghost, His blood would not have remained pure and spotless. And let me add this: Had the Holy Spirit not been with Jesus, He would have sinned." (Benny Hinn, Good Morning Holy Spirit, (Word, 1991) p.135)

 "Do you know that every unbeliever is filled with a demon spirit?" (Good Morning Holy Spirit, (Benny Hinn, Word, 1991) p.146)

 "Christians are "Little Messiah's and "little gods" on the earth. Thus [Encouraging the audience]...say "I am a God-man....This spirit-man within me is a God-man..." say "I'm born of heaven-a God-man. I'm a God man. I am a sample of Jesus. I'm a super being. Say it! Say it! Who's a super being? "I walk in the realm of the supernatural." Say it!...You want to prosper? Money will be falling on you from left, right and centre. God will begin to prosper you, for money always follows righteousness....Say after me, "everything I ever want is in me already." (Benny Hinn, TBN, 1990)

 Benny Hinn says that Christians confessing they are "a sinner saved by grace" only insult God with such "garbage" (The Toronto Blessing, Stephen Sizer, 1990)

 "Poverty is from the devil and that God wants all Christians prosperous." (Benny Hinn, TBN, 11/6/90)

 "I am a 'little messiah' walking the earth" (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-Thon" on TBN, November 6, 1990).

 "Are you ready for some real revelation knowledge....you are god" (Benny Hinn, "Our Position In Christ", tape # AO31190-1)

 "You are a little god on earth running around". (Benny Hinn, "Praise-a-thon" broadcast on TBN, November, 1990)


  "If you have attacked me, your children will pay for it."  (Benny Hinn, TBN "Heresy Hunters" October 23 1992)


 " . . . the anointing is dependent upon my words. God will not move unless I say it. Why? because He has made us coworkers with Him. He set things up that way." (Benny Hinn, The Anointing. Nashville: Thomas Nelson. 1992. 82.)

 Benny Hinn said: "This spirit-man within me is a God-man. Say after me, he’s born of heaven, he’s a super-being…Say I’m born of heaven - God-man. I’m a God-man. I’m a sample of Jesus. I’m a super being. Say it! Say it! Who’s a super being? I walk in the realm of the supernatural. Get the spirit-man renewed…when he’s strong, he’ll hold off sickness…you want to prosper? Money will be falling on you from left, right and center. God will begin to prosper you, for money always follows righteousness…Say after me, I hold my destiny." ("Joel’s Army," Jewel van der Merwe, Discernment Ministries)


 "Holy Spirit said something to me and I had to go like a mad man and looking in the Word. He says, ‘God’s original plan is that the woman was to bring forth children out of her side.’ What? You know that there is nowhere in the Bible but where God gives birth out of His side. Jesus gives birth to the church out of His side. Adam gives birth to his wife out of his side. It was sin that turned the thing around. And it was sin that transformed her flesh and her body." (Transcribed From A Message Given By Benny Hinn, Paw Creek Ministries)


 "God sent Jesus as an example to see if we could retain and maintain the Holy Spirit in human flesh." (Benny Hinn as observed by Ed Tarkowski in an e-mail Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:02:03)

  "Don't tell me you have Jesus. You ARE everything He was, and everything He is and shall be." (Benny Hinn, TBN)

 "Just know this, that Jesus could not have remained sinless without the Holy Ghost...." (Benny Hinn and Paul Crouch on TBN)

 "... I'm gonna read one Scripture, and then I'm gonna preach and the devil is gonna drop dead ..." (Benny Hinn, tape of crusade)

 "... I was in Ghana recently preaching one night, they broguht a man, and this man was put on the platform, and he was dead, the man was dead.  And it was a very scary thing, because nobody told me he was dead ... suddenly the people went wild ... behind my back the man was getting up and moving ..."  (Later)"I was in Ghana just recently where half a million people showed up and a man was raised from the dead on the platform, that's a fact people."  (Later)"I would not limit God, God can raise the dead, absolutely.  I have not seen it, in that one case we did hear about it."

note that it moved from happening on his stage while he was there, to 'I have not seen it...'

Hinn prophesied on TBN in 1994 that "the Lord has told me, now listen here, this is a thus saith the Lord, that he is gonna wipe out the homosexual community in 1995, next year, he's just gonna take them completely out by fire, they're gone...".


Title: Re:Who?
Post by: Shylynne on January 23, 2005, 11:33:25 AM
1Ti 6:5  Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.