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2nd Timothy
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« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2004, 01:20:56 PM »

Again....If you read Rev.13 carefully you'll find that "chip technology" or any kind of technology for that matter, has no relationship whatsoever with the end-time "beast".

While agree nothing is said about chip technology in the passage, it does not rule out the possibility of it either which I will show.

Quote
That chapter says that "the beast"; the ones whom are worshipped, is a "man".  NOT an individual man!, but rather a "type" or race of man.

On this one you have some explaining to do.  Where do you get the idea that it is speaking of a race?   I see nothing like that in the passage.  The beast has a deadly wound that is healed....this happens to an entire race?  

Rev 13:6  And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Striking similarities.   Notice He is called a man in the Thess. passage, the son of perdition.

Quote
It is the beast; that race of man, that has the mark/image made of him.  And it is "ALL" whom accept that image.  
Check it out!

Another thing:
If you notice, it is the beast whom is able to "buy and sell", NOT those whom have accepted his image!

Yes lets check it out!

Rev 13:13  And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

The second beast does miracles in the presense of the first, and encourages men of the earth to make an image in honor of this man (son of perdition) who was mortally wounded but yet lived.

Rev 13:15  And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Another bizzare miracle, causing the image itself to be lifelike.
Notice this next verse...


Rev 13:16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


He causeth ALL (who? rich, poor, free, and bond...covers everyone) to receive a mark, that NO MAN might buy or sell, except HE that had the name, or the number of his name.  

How is it in todays world, that somone could track who is able to buy and sell?   Computers tied to the world wide network rings a bell!   How is it that we can already buy and sell without cash?   That little plastic card we all carry around in our wallets makes for an almost cash free society as it is.   What would be the next step?   Suppose you had a chip in your hand that tracked the same bank account info your plastic card does?   What if stores, gas stations, jobs, all went that route in favour of legislation requiring all citizens to be implanted (due to terrorism prevention or something like that) in order for you to get payed, buy, or sell?   It all starts to look like reality on the horizon does it not?   Even worse, if that chip carries the name or number of a man who all world leaders decide to pledge allegiance to.

Maybe it wont be a chip, but it sure wouldn't surprise me one bit if it was.   One thing is certain however, we are getting close, very close now to the end.   If you have family that do not know the Lord, its time to start praying, and sharing Christ with them in earnest.   The tide of prophecy is slowly washing in on an unsuspecting world.  Time is running out!

Maranatha Lord Jesus!
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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2004, 02:34:30 AM »

It does not matter what our oppinions are on the mark I say to everyone do not except any mark at all for it is not worth condemption. In response to the beast being able to by and sell this is false.

It is clearly written "He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may uy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Rev. 13:16-17.

Also the beast is a single man not a group of people this to is clearly seen in the bible "And HE deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs wich HE was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded bye the sword and lived." Rev. 13:14. You see the beast is a he, he will give signs and he will be wounded by a sword and healed. It is not and they deceive those or they were granted; but HE!
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« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2004, 02:37:05 AM »

Sorry 2nd Timothy I did not realize there was a second page and posted in reply to Silver Surfer.
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« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2004, 02:38:59 AM »

I meen fayeC im so sorry for all the posts please forgive me I need some sleep. Goodnight.
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« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2004, 08:50:07 AM »

I meen fayeC im so sorry for all the posts please forgive me I need some sleep. Goodnight.

No worries 8th!  I think you said it just as well if not better, and in fewer words to boot!   Cheesy  I need sleep now too....lol

Grace and Peace!
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« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2004, 09:26:06 AM »

It does not matter what our oppinions are on the mark I say to everyone do not except any mark at all for it is not worth condemption. In response to the beast being able to by and sell this is false.

It is clearly written "He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may uy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Rev. 13:16-17.

Also the beast is a single man not a group of people this to is clearly seen in the bible "And HE deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs wich HE was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded bye the sword and lived." Rev. 13:14. You see the beast is a he, he will give signs and he will be wounded by a sword and healed. It is not and they deceive those or they were granted; but HE!

All of you seem to wanna translate "seven mountains/continents of man" to mean "seven individual men".

That is "Babylon" which John sees coming out of the sea in verse one of Rev.13.  And it consists of multitudes, nations, and peoples.  Thus the seven heads are seven continents/races of man within Babylon.

John refers to one of the races; the one that is wounded, collectively as "he".

It's like saying for example:  "the caucasian man (meaning all of them collectively) makes up the majority, and "he" will most likely vote Republican."

Thus, John sees that one of the continents; or one of the races of man within Babylon is a wounded race of man, and that Babylon heals his wound, creates an image of that race, and causes all to accept that image.

It is Babylon that has the "power", and "does great wonders", and makes "fire come down from heaven", and "causes all to accept the image" which he (Babylon) created of the beast.

The text says that all accepted the image of that race, and exalted him by using their intellect or by working physically with their right hand.

Verse 3 describes how that "the whole world" will "wonder after" the beast; which is to say that the whole world will be ware of, and "study about" the beast and his movement in Babylon.

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« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2004, 07:33:02 PM »

 Faye.

 Without trying to sound condenscending, please allow me to point out a major problem with men/women interpreting the bible instead of taking it literally - as it is written.

 When God says...

Rev 13:6  And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

 He means exactly what He says. It's very unambiguous. The only way you can interpret these obvious references to describe a "race" instead of a specific, single person who happens to be a man (satan) is to ignore the information presented, and indeed be ignorant of a major biblical theme...the fact that satan is the father of sin, and it is satan who will arrive on earth and claim to be God, as the following verses clearly describe...

2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 The following (below) is from Jack VanImpe...

 Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

The wounding of the beast is mentioned three times in this chapter-verse 3, 12, and 14. The wound produces death, but restoration to life follows. Some commentators think that this statement represents the fall of the old Roman Empire and its restoration through the ten-nation confederacy. Others believe that it speaks of the resurrection of Judas Iscariot, for he and the Antichrist are the only ones ever called the son of perdition (John 17:12 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3). God alone knows.

A third possibility would be that the Antichrist is assassinated midway through the Tribulation hour, perhaps in retaliation for overthrowing three members of the original ten-nation federation. Such an event would give the great counterfeiter, Satan, the opportunity to perform a resurrection. This would prove invaluable to the prestige of the Antichrist, since the deity of the Lord Jesus was affirmed by His resurrection 2,000 years before (see Matthew 12:39,40). Remember that the Antichrist proclaims himself God and even sits in the Temple in Jerusalem during the Tribulation (see 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Matthew 24:15). Thus, a counterfeit resurrection would assure the world that he is all he claims to be. I personally believe this to be the correct solution, because when it happens, all the world wonders after him. Mankind is literally overwhelmed by the Antichrist's power and authority.

Verse 4: And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Another reason that verse 3 may speak of an actual resurrection is that millions who previously would not believe in the Antichrist now begin to worship himùand Satan.

 In the second half of this chapter, we will see that the false prophet or religious leader of the Tribulation period actually enforces the worship of the Antichrist! Since the people think of him as God, they cry, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? Yes, who can combat this self-proclaimed god and be victorious?

Verse 5: And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

The Antichrist's blasphemy during the final three and one-half years of the Tribulation hour most likely has to do with his mockery of the Almighty. One of the reasons God hates idolatry (the use of images in worship) is that He wants no rivals. Hear Jehovah in Exodus 20:4 and 5: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God. Think of the insult to the Eternal One when the Antichrist says, "I am God," and teeming millions bow to him, to Satan, to the false prophet, and to the image-the abomination of desolation-erected in his honor. This blasphemy continues.

Verse 6: And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Jesus, the true God, was accused of blasphemy in His day because He claimed to be God (see Matthew 9:3). Ironically, the world accepts the Antichrist's claim to deity, and this perpetrated lie is blasphemy to God. The blasphemy is undoubtedly intensified because Satan himself is speaking.

Now, here is a thought-provoking theory: during the first forty-two months of the Tribulation, the Antichrist acts under the influence of Satan. However, after Satan is cast out of heaven (in chapter 12) and comes to earth, he may actually incarnate himself in the dead body of the Antichrist who had the wound by a sword, and did live (chapter 14). Thus, the beast is raised from the dead by the counterfeiter (Satan), who dwells in that body for the final forty-two months, claiming deity. As a result, he is able to experience that which he sought when he was cast out of heaven, crying, I will be like the most high (see Isaiah 14:12-14). Satan's ultimate desire is now realized-he is worshipped as God. The blasphemy is unspeakable! He desecrates everything his filthy hands touch, including the Tabernacle and its worshipers.

Verse 7: And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The fight is on for the saints of the Tribulation hour. Remember, this is not the Church. Satan battles the Church as they return with Christ (chapter 19, verse 14). In the scene before us, he is attempting to destroy the millions who washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb (chapter 7, verse 14) and who also refused the mark of the beast (chapter 20, verse 4). Instead of experiencing defeat, they overcome (Satan) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony (chapter 12, verse 11).

During this time, the Antichrist controls the entire world. He is an international despot exercising power over all kindreds, tongues, and nations. Such a one-world government is almost upon us. Consider for a moment the global organizations which have become existent in our day: (1) the International Atomic Energy Agency, (2) the International Labor Organization, (3) the Food and Agricultural Organization, (4) the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development, or World Bank, (5) the International Development Association, (6) the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization, commonly called UNESCO, (7) the World Health Organization, (Cool the International Finance Corporation, (9) the International Monetary Fund, (10) the International Civil Aviation Organization, (11) the Universal Postal Union, (12) the International Telecommunications Union, (13) the World Meteorological Association, (14) the Intergovernmental Maritime Consultive Organization, and (15) the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trades Organization. The formation of such international alliances has led outstanding thinkers to state that "a New World Order" is on the horizon.

Presently we may be witnessing mankind's final approach to the much-publicized New World Order, or one-world government, of the Antichrist. At this point in history, all the world will be amazed as this self-styled deity takes control, and the majority will submit to his authority. However, God always has a remnant who will not bow to Baal or other deities.

Bronzesnake

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« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2004, 12:27:07 AM »

Are you familiar with Daniel 8 through 12, Bronzesnake?

If you are, then you know that Daniel speaks exclusively about the 10 horned "beast" and the mighty "little horn" nation wherein the beast operates.
Daniel speaks of the two (the beast and the little horn) interchangable, and refers to each of them as "he", just as the Apostle John does in Revelation when he refers to Babylon as "he" and the beast as "he".

Daniel gives explisit details about the beast, and never once does he suggest that they are killed.  He instead speaks of their "exaltation" and the worship of them.

The amazing thing about those chapters in Daniel is that they resemble so much America!
Guess that's why Christ suggested that we be mindful of that which he called "the holy place" in Mat. 24:15 when he referred us to the scriptures in Daniel.  
Surely he was referring to America, a nation built on the principles of God, with the Gospel that has gone out to the world, and with the thousands of Christian churches in our land,.... wouldn't you think?!

"And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and they shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate," Daniel says of the little horn in ch.11:31

That scripture is describing how  that God's people (the host of America) have polluted the church, and have taken away daily school prayer, and how that they put in place the worship of the beast.  The worship of that race of "man" called "the beast" has been the direct cause for the desolation of America.

"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and "the people of the prince" that shall come, shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined,"  says Dan.9:26

Daniel is describing in that verse how that in 62 Jesus Christ was cut off in America when on June 25th of that year School prayer was taken away, and afterwards  "the people of the prince"; a race of "man" called "the beast" in Rev., began to be exalted in our nation.  He is describing how that "the beast" will desecrete America and the Church.

"He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease."  Dan.9:27

No better description could be given of that infamous day when on June 25th; the middle of the year of 62 the Supreme Court, after having the case for one year, handed down the decision to remove prayer and the worship of Jesus Christ from America's schools.

Dan.8 through 12 is FILLED with references to America.  In addition to "the removeal of school prayer", it has references to "the Civil War", and the "Civil Rights Movement" among others.  So explicit that one would have to be blind not to recognize them.

"Let no man deceive you", Paul says in 11Thes.2,  "for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed; the son of perdition.  
Who "opposeth" and "exalteth" himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
"And now you know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time."

The "falling away" from Christ has happened in America, and without a doubt Paul is saying in that verse that it was "the worship of Christ", and "the daily school prayers" in America which was holding the beast at bay.
Like Daniel, he explains in that verse how that the beast opposes those whom are "called by God's name" and exalts themselves above ALL men, as he sit's amongst God's people in America, knowing that he is worshipped.

"Professing themselves to be wise", Paul says of "the host" of America, "they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an "image" made like to corruptible "man", and worshipped and served the creature/"the beast" MORE than Jesus Christ."

If you people cannot agree with me on anything else, surely you would have to agree that the prophets were talking about "America's" falling away from Christ, because America has indeed fallen away from him. We have locked him up behind the walls of our churches, and everything pertaining to God in our nation has been thrown down.

All those things which were prophesied in the scriptures have happened in America.  All that's left to be fulfilled is the tribulation period of which God will cause those whom his people worship to persecute them.


It's late....Goodnight.










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« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2004, 12:59:51 AM »

Hi there I’m new here.   Smiley  I’ve been looking through this thread and wanted to point a few things out if I may.

FayeC, I wanted to ask how you reconcile Revelation Chapters 17 and 18 with your view that the 7 headed beast of Revelation is “Babylon”.  Consider that it is revealed in Chapter 17 that the 10 horns of the beast destroy “Mystery Babylon”.  Does this mean that she, in effect, destroys herself?

That is "Babylon" which John sees coming out of the sea in verse one of Rev.13.  And it consists of multitudes, nations, and peoples.  Thus the seven heads are seven continents/races of man within Babylon.

Quote
Rev 17:16  And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Mystery Babylon is destroyed before Christ returns and she is destroyed by the 10 horns on the seven headed beast.  They are the harbingers of God’s judgment upon her.  So how does it logically follow that the seven headed beast equals the Babylon it destroys?  Just a note but remember that the armies of the beast are still around at Armageddon as they follow the beast into the battle at Armageddon.  Yet Babylon is already destroyed by the time Armageddon takes place.  So how are they the same?
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« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2004, 01:01:21 AM »

FayeC I do agree that America has fallen away. But where do you get the rest of these ideas you have to take the word of God for what it is not what it could be. God talks about the anti-christ as a he singular not plural he gets wounded it says so in revelations he does miracles like making fire come down from the sky. How could all of America make fire come down from the sky. It is obvious what these verses meen. The Bible is not there to trick you and have hidden meanings.
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« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2004, 10:48:32 PM »

Hi there I’m new here.   Smiley  I’ve been looking through this thread and wanted to point a few things out if I may.

FayeC, I wanted to ask how you reconcile Revelation Chapters 17 and 18 with your view that the 7 headed beast of Revelation is “Babylon”.  Consider that it is revealed in Chapter 17 that the 10 horns of the beast destroy “Mystery Babylon”.  Does this mean that she, in effect, destroys herself?

That is "Babylon" which John sees coming out of the sea in verse one of Rev.13.  And it consists of multitudes, nations, and peoples.  Thus the seven heads are seven continents/races of man within Babylon.

Quote
Rev 17:16  And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Mystery Babylon is destroyed before Christ returns and she is destroyed by the 10 horns on the seven headed beast.  They are the harbingers of God’s judgment upon her.  So how does it logically follow that the seven headed beast equals the Babylon it destroys?  Just a note but remember that the armies of the beast are still around at Armageddon as they follow the beast into the battle at Armageddon.  Yet Babylon is already destroyed by the time Armageddon takes place.  So how are they the same?


Mystery Babylon is described in Rev.17 as "having seven heads and ten horns".
Likewise, the beast coming out of the sea in Rev.13 also has "seven heads and ten horn".

The seven heads represent 7 "mountains" or continents of people within Babylon.

The ten horns represent "the beast", the ones whom are "worshipped"  in Rev.13.

"Babylon", the "woman", and the "harlot", are one and the same intinty.

They represent "America", and the seed of the Founding Fathers, whom have cut off Jesus Christ from our nation, and are worshipping the beast.

Notice that Rev.17:16 says that "the ten horns (the beast) shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh and burn her with fire."

This no doubt will be known as "the time of Jacob's trouble"; or, "the tribulation period", when the beast will persecute the the hosts of America/the offspring of America's Founding Fathers.

If you have any doubts about where Babylon is, just read Revelation 18.  The descriptions given there is clearly that of America.
























































 

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« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2004, 10:48:26 PM »

FayeC...
 
 
 I just lost my entire post in response to your latest incorrect intpretation of the scriptures...it was too long, and I forgot to save it before I hit post...I lost the entire post.

 So...I will cheat, and paste an article from Jack Van Impe, which sums up what I wanted to say.

 Bronzesnake...

  Babylon ofRevelation 14 is a religious system, whereas the Babylon of Revelation 16 is political. The chapter before us, then, is the story of the rise and fall ofthe ecumenical world church, while chapter 18 describes the destruction of a political system. Let’s begin our investigation of chapter 17 and discussits prophetic implications, historically.

Verse 1: And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials,and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

Here we see one of the seven angels who administered one of the seven judgments speaking to the disciple, John, inviting him to view the judgment of the great harlot who sitteth upon many waters. This phrase, many waters,speaks of religious control over humanity, internationally. Proof? Verse 15:The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Verse 2: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, andthe inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Here we discover that this worldwide religious system holds both earth’s leaders and people within its grasp. The fornication committed is between these worldly leaders and the church. Remember that fornication, spiritually speaking, has to do with idolatry, including all its evil connotations and associations.

Spiritual fornication also has to do with Christianity embracing the world—leaping out of Christ’s arms into those of another lover. God’s Word instructs true Christians to be separated from the world (see Romans 12:2),specifically cautioning them not to fall in love with the world or anything that it contains (see 1 John 2:15). Those who disregard these commands are spiritual adulterers or fornicators. That’s why James 4:4 declares, Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world isenmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is theenemy of God. Harlotry and whoredom, then, speak of idolatry and worldliness.

During the Tribulation hour, a vast international religious system (thegreat whore of verse 1) creates impure alignments with kings, rulers, and presidents in an unprecedented way. Her control is so overwhelming that humanity becomes mentally stupefied or hypnotically drugged as they are made drunk with the intoxicating brew of these religious/political alliances.

Verse 3: So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I sawa woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy,having seven heads and ten horns.

At this point John, guided by the Holy Spirit. observes the woman (or worldchurch) sitting upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy,having seven heads and ten horns. We first saw this beast in chapter 13,verse 1: I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns. We immediately recognize him to be the Antichrist, who came to power through a confederation of western nations pictured by the ten horns and ten toes.
The only difference between the present text and verse 1 of chapter 13 isthat the beast is now described as being scarlet coloured. Most commentators believe this reflects his bloody assault upon the world as he rises to power. He begins his reign with a fake peace pact (see Daniel 9:27) which helater breaks! As a result, millions are slaughtered during his rule. Now he bears the blood-red color of an executioner.

Verse 4: And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her handfull of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

As this world church on earth is described, please keep in mind that the true Church—the bride of Christ—is in heaven (chapter 4, verse 1). Her members were raptured from all nations and from many denominations. In fact,their song was recorded in chapter 5, verse 9: Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. The lyrics clearly prove that they trusted in the precious blood of Jesus for salvation. There is no other way (see 1 Peter1:18,19). Cain rejected the blood and tried to appease God with a vegetable offering (see Genesis 4:3), but God said, It is the blood that maketh anatonement for the soul (Leviticus 17:11). One cannot get to heaven by following the commandments of men (Matthew 15:9), observing tradition (seeMark 7:9), or as a result of works (see Titus 3:5). Thus, those who believed and obeyed God’s teachings concerning the blood of the Lamb are in heaven when the false church, the great whore that sitteth upon many waiters, holds sway over the earth.

This false religious system of the Tribulation hour is a complete union of the church and the world. Its members are the leftovers from all denominations. They were either doctrinally or morally wrong. One is as bad as the other. The doctrinally wrong are described in 2 Peter 2:1 and 3: But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction...whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

The morally wrong are pictured in Jude, verses 8-21. Now we understand why theology and morality are so important! When God says, All have sinned(Romans 3:23), He means all. When He declares, The wages of sin is death(Romans 6:23), He means punishment. When He declares, The blood of JesusChrist his Son cleanseth us from all sin (1 John 1:7), He means just that!There are no two ways about it! God says what He means—and means what Hesays. If one rejects God’s Word, he will end up among this Tribulation crowd of self-indoctrinated religionists in a world church destined for destruction.

Secondly, if one says he is a Christian but continues to live in sin, the result will be the same—even though his doctrinal theories may coincide withthe true teachings of the Word. Yes, disobedience to revealed truth, as well as incorrect doctrine, keeps one from the presence of God for all eternity.This is why Titus 1:16 states: They profess that they know God [lipservice]; but in works [daily living] they deny [God], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate [counterfeit]. Therefore,the members of both groups remain on earth when Jesus calls His genuine children home in the twinkling of an eye. Then these leftovers from all denominations become members of the only religious body still in existence—the world church under the false prophet.

Looking at verse 4 once again, we notice that the woman or mother of the united world church is clothed in materials of purple and scarlet colour.This signifies rulership, for imperial Rome bedecked its leaders in such fashionable elegance. Strange, is it not, that ecclesiastical rulers have always desired temporal authority? They have sought to control the world as well as their parishioners.

Constantine, who became Emperor of Rome in 312 A.D. and eventually head ofthe church, is a perfect example of this power struggle which has continued to the present hour. Shades of Nicolaitanism! Remember the church of Ephesusin chapter 2. Question: Is such a goal scriptural? No! Jesus taught His disciples to pray, Thy kingdom come (Matthew 6:10). When that great event takes place in chapter 19, verse 16, then and only then, is a theocracy—the government of God—established upon earth. This position of leadership is reserved for the Lord Jesus Christ, and no mortal has any business taking His place. The throne belongs exclusively to the King of kings and Lord of lords.

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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2004, 10:49:02 PM »

The colors and jewels of verse 4 picture a church composed of prelates orleaders elegantly dressed in purple and scarlet (the colors of the emperorsfrom the time of Constantine). They are also decked with gold and preciousstones and pearls (a picture of wealth) and use idols in worship (picturedby the golden cup in the woman’s hand). The cup is full of (1) abominationsand (2) filthiness.

Verse 5: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THEGREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Here we discover that the mother church has daughters. Her offspring aregroups who either rejected the true teachings of the founder of Christendomor who had a counterfeit experience with the Son of God. They went throughthe motions but were never truly converted. Among them are cultists,apostates, and unconverted professors of religion—including Baptists,Catholics, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, and those who weremembers of a host of denominations. They never really knew the Lord (seeMatthew 7:21-23). The fruit of daily living was spoiled. Now they are allunited in one homogenized ecumenical monstrosity—the counterfeit churchunder the leadership of the false prophet. However, the true believers frommany denominations are already on the glory side and were evacuated at theRapture (see Revelation 4:1).

Friend, at the Judgment Day, no church—not even your church—will be thefinal standard of truth. Neither will tradition hold sway at the judgmentbar of God. The only and absolute authority of truth, faith, and religiouspractice is God’s Holy Word (see 2 Timothy 3:16)! This is why the Lord Jesushimself said in Mark 7:7 and 13, Howbeit in vain do they worship me,teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Making the word of God ofnone effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered.

Verse 6: And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and withthe blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with greatadmiration.

As John watches all the cunning antics of persecution this woman used anduses, he [wonders] with great admiration. This does not mean he admires theone who has so mercilessly destroyed so many. Instead, the original Greek isthat John "wonders with a great wonder." He is mystified.

Verse 7: And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I willtell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her,which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

The explanation begins in the next verse.

Verse 8: The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out ofthe bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earthshall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from thefoundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not,and yet is.

The angel continues unfolding the mystery of the beast in verses 8 through17. Then, in verse 18, the identity of the woman is revealed. Concerning thebeast, the angel declares, The beast that thou sawest was [past tense], andis not [present tense]; and shall ascend [future tense] out of thebottomless pit. This is the same beast found in verse 3 and also in chapter13, verse 1. The reason the beast was, and is not and shall ascend out ofthe bottomless pit, and go into perdition is that, as mentioned during ourstudy of chapter 13, verse 3, he is more than likely assassinated during theTribulation hour—and thus, is not. Then Satan, the great imitator,resurrects him and enters the body of this human for the final forty-twomonths of the Tribulation.

This explanation fulfills the statement, and yet is (verse Cool. While he isdeceased, the beast is in the place of departed evil spirits—the bottomlesspit. At the time of his resurrection, he ascends out of this pit, only toeventually go back into perdition at the conclusion of his reign when Christcomes (at the Battle of Armageddon) and casts him into the lake of fire(chapter 19, verse 20). Verse 8 also tells us that those persons whose names[are] not written in the book of life, are emotionally stirred as they seethe beast that was [alive], and is not [because of his assassination] andyet is [because of his resurrection] ruling again.

Verse 9: And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are sevenmountains, on which the woman sitteth.

This is a tremendous text. It locates, geographically, the final world powerblock and headquarters for the world church as well. Historically speaking,Rome is the only city situated on seven hills. The names of her seven peaksare (1) Aventine, (2) Caehan, (3) Capitohine, (4) Esquihine, (5) Palatine,(6) Quimnal, and (7) Viminal. There is no disputing the fact. The worldchurch, sitting on these seven hills, heading up scores of denominations,rides to power on the back of the ten horned western federation of nations.

Verse 10: And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and theother is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

As John receives this vision of the seven kings, five have already fallen.They were (1) Julius Caesar, (2) Tiberius, (3) Caligula, (4) Claudius, and(5) Nero. Number 6—Domitian—is, at the time John receives this revelation,alive and on the throne. Number 7 is yet to come. He, of course, is theAntichrist whose reign will last briefly, or a short space.

Verse 11: And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and isof the seven, and goeth into perdition.

This verse is a thought twister, but easily understood when one considers itcarefully. Who is king number eight if there are only seven kings in thefirst place? Number eight is number seven resurrected! And the beast thatwas [before his assassination], and is not [because of his untimely death],even he is [because of his resurrection] the eighth. He is of the sevenbecause Satan, who incarnated his body while dead, also motivated the otherseven. As further proof that number eight is the resurrected Antichrist(number seven), we are again told that he will eventually go into perdition.This statement is also made concerning number seven in verse 8 as well as inour text—verse 11. King number seven and king number eight are one and thesame.

Verse 12: And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which havereceived no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with thebeast.

The ten horns have not become quite familiar to us. They may soon controlthe world. Communism, as we have learned, is not the final power block ofhistory. Rather, this ten toed western alliance is. The power of thesenations, however, will be for one hour, or for but a brief moment of time.

Verse 13: These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength untothe beast.

The final ten-nation western federation—after the Antichrist ousts three ofthe original members and replaces them—becomes so unified that everythingthey possess, economically and militarily, is placed under the control ofthis world leader (see Daniel 7:8, 24).

Verse 14: These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcomethem: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with himare called, and chosen, and faithful.

This verse is fulfilled in chapter 19, verses 11 through 16, when the world’sarmies gather together against the Lord and His anointed as pictured inPsalm 2:2: The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers takecounsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed. The Lamb(Christ) is the Lord of lords, and King of kings. The called, chosen, andfaithful who accompany Him are the armies of heaven (chapter 19, verse 14)composed of the believers (the true Church) who were raptured out of theworld in chapter 4, verse 1, and who then waited in heaven seven years toreturn with the Bridegroom.

Verse 15: And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where thewhore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

As explained in our discussion of verse 1, the woman sitting upon manywaters is the world church who exercises religious control over mankindinternationally.

Verse 16: And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shallhate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat herflesh, and burn her with fire.

The Antichrist eventually betrays his religious followers. They bowed andscraped to his image, but now he no longer wants to share the limelight andglory with them. Thus, the individual leaders of the countries in the tennation confederacy turn against the world church. They hate her, strip herof all possessions (the gold, precious stones, and pearls of verse 4), anddestroy her by burning her remains to the ground. Who places such a plan ofaction in the hearts of these rulers? None other than God Almighty!

Verse 17: For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree,and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall befulfilled.

Imagine, God does it all! This portion of Scripture emphasizes the futilityof politics. Despite the methods and manipulations of man, God’s plan alwayscomes to pass. He sets up and knocks down world rulers at will (see Psalm75:7). They are but pawns in the game of life (see Proverbs 21:1). God’swill prevails regardless of what humans attempt to do. Christian, get soulssaved! This is your God-given goal. Let the world spend time on temporalissues. The cause of Christ is eternal!

Verse 18: And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reignethover the kings of the earth.

This great end time city is located within the Common Market nations andproves that the political and religious power brokers exist togethersimultaneously. Since the world church forms at the time when ten westernnations unite—and both the European Economic Community (now the EuropeanUnion) and World Council of Churches began unity proceedings in 1948


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« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2004, 08:27:23 AM »

Bronzesnake,

All that copy/paste material which you posted above comes from one of the "many" false prophets which Jeremiah speaks about  in chapter 23.  They are teachings which fictitious moves are made of.  I've been watching quite a few of them this week, it being Halloween and all.  Smiley


"Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you", the Lord says, "they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.

They say still unto them that despose, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.

I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the Lord, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the Lord."



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« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2004, 12:41:32 PM »

I have seen so many different attempts to interpret the book of Revelations. Some point at one specific denomination or another. Some point at one specific nation or another. Each time a major war occurs their are some people that come out saying this is it, this is the start of Armeggedon.

Everyone seems to have their own ideas based on their understanding of the world around us as we understand it today. These ideas keep changing as the world changes.

I want to make a major point here:

Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13  Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.


Next I want to point out that there are only two churches. I am not talking denominations here but churches. There is the church that is comprised of those that are with God. The other church is comprised with those that are with Satan.
Some say I don't believe in Satan or I don't follow Satan. I go with the Bible on this:

Mat 12:30  He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.


Matthew 24 tells us quite plainly what to look for and what to avoid.



Mar 13:32  But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Mar 13:33  Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.


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Joh 9:4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
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