Why Elijah must come...again

[Gracey]

Well, just to be picky -

Surly you would never cause a 'stranger' to labour... Like the guy who works so the computers can be on line or the sanatation guy when you use water. or the folks at the electric company no lights, hair driers etc. on in your home from sundown to Friday to sundown Saturday?
 
Most people don't work the weekends anyway.

Is that so? Well....grocery store and department store clerks; hairdressers; policemen and firemen; doctors and nurses; child care workers; factory shift workers; car dealerships; car washes; gas stations; convenience stores; fast food employees; coffee shops; restaurant workers; newspaper staff and deliverers; towtruck, taxicab & ambulance drivers; airline pilots, stewardesses and grounds crew; pastors, preachers and priests; I could go on and on, but you get the drift. People do work on the weekends, whether it is Saturday or Sunday.[/b]

And how sad..that no person, who attends Sunday worship services understands that fact !

Sunday keepers resisits the truth, that Jesus spoke !
They deny that he is the way, by their lifestlyes.

Because I attend worship service at a church building on Sunday doesn't mean I don't also worship God every other day of the week and understand fully what that means -

Mar 14:49  I was with you daily in the temple teaching, and you did not seize Me. But the Scriptures must be fulfilled.

Luk 9:23  And He said to all, If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

Act 2:46  And continuing with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they shared food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
Act 2:47  praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

Act 16:5  Then indeed the churches were established in the faith and increased in number daily.

And further, Jesus himself taught/worked and set the example:

Mat 12:1  At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the sabbath day. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck the heads of grain and to eat.
Mat 12:2  But when the Pharisees saw, they said to Him, Behold, your disciples do that which it is not lawful to do on the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3  But He said to them, Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, and those who were with him,
Mat 12:4  how he entered into the house of God and ate the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5  Or have you not read in the Law that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath and are blameless?
Mat 12:6  But I say to you that One greater than the temple is in this place.
Mat 12:7  But if you had known what this is, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice," you would not have condemned those who are not guilty.
Mat 12:8  For the Son of Man is Lord even of the sabbath.
Mat 12:11  And He said to them, What man among you will be, who will have one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the sabbaths, will he not lay hold on it and lift it out?
Mat 12:12  How much better is a man then than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.


Mar 2:23  And it happened that He went through the grainfields on the sabbath day. And as they walked His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain.
Mar 2:24  And the Pharisees said to Him, Behold, why do they do that which is not lawful on the sabbath day?
Mar 2:25  And He said to them, Have you never read what David did, when he had need and was hungry, he, and those with him?
Mar 2:26  How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest and ate the showbread, which it is not lawful to eat, except for the priests, and also gave to those with him?
Mar 2:27  And He said to them, The sabbath came into being for man's sake, and not man for the sabbath's sake.
Mar 2:28  Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the sabbath.

Mar 3:1  And He again entered into the synagogue. And a man was there who had a withered hand.
Mar 3:2  And they watched Him to see if He would heal him on the sabbath day, so that they might accuse Him.
Mar 3:3  And He said to the man who had the withered hand, Arise! Come into the middle.
Mar 3:4  And He said to them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? To save life, or to kill? But they were silent.


Luk 13:14  And answering, the synagogue ruler, being angry because Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, said to the crowd, There are six days in which it is right to work. Therefore in them come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
Luk 13:15  And the Lord answered him and said, Hypocrite! Does not each one of you on the sabbath loosen his ox or ass from the stall and lead it away, to give it drink?
Luk 13:16  And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham whom Satan has bound, lo these eighteen years, be loosened from this bond on the Sabbath day?

Joh 5:16  And therefore the Jews persecuted Jesus and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the sabbath day.

Joh 5:18  Then, because of this, the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only had broken the sabbath, but also said that God was His father, making Himself equal with God.

Joh 9:14  And it was a sabbath when Jesus made the clay and opened his eyes.

Joh 9:16  Therefore some of the Pharisees said, This man is not from God, because he does not keep the sabbath. Others said, How can a man, a sinner, do such miracles? And there was a division among them.  

In Christ
Gracey

[nChrist]

Silver Surfer Said:

Only the person who commits sin, is under the Law, (Romans 3:19).

God's Law, the 10 commandments, is called the Law of Liberty, (James 2:10-12)

Read and study them in context with references for a basic understanding of these Scriptures.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[fiveeyern]

Back to the original topic.  What about what Jesus said about John the Baptist in this passage?  If John was Elijah, why would there need be another to come?

7 As these men were going away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John, "What did you go out into the R385 wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 "But F237 what did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Those who wear soft clothing are in kings' palaces! F238 9 "But F239 what did you go out to see? A R386 prophet? Yes, I tell you, and one who is more than a prophet. 10 "This is the one about whom it is F240 written, `BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER AHEAD OF YOU, WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY BEFORE YOU.' 11 "Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least F242 in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 "From R388 the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers F243 violence, and violent men take F244 it by force. 13 "For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 "And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah R389 who was F245 to come. 15 "He R390 who has ears to hear, let F246 him hear.

I apologize for all the numbers in the middle.

[Silver Surfer]

Back to the original topic.  What about what Jesus said about John the Baptist in this passage?  If John was Elijah, why would there need be another to come?

7 As these men were going away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John, "What did you go out into the R385 wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 "But F237 what did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Those who wear soft clothing are in kings' palaces! F238 9 "But F239 what did you go out to see? A R386 prophet? Yes, I tell you, and one who is more than a prophet. 10 "This is the one about whom it is F240 written, `BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER AHEAD OF YOU, WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY BEFORE YOU.' 11 "Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least F242 in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 "From R388 the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers F243 violence, and violent men take F244 it by force. 13 "For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 "And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah R389 who was F245 to come. 15 "He R390 who has ears to hear, let F246 him hear.

I apologize for all the numbers in the middle.

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet [before] the coming of the [great and dreadful day] of the Lord", (Malachi 4:5).
Now, what was so dreadful about John the Baptist's preaching, about Christ's first coming ?

 NOTHING !

This Bible verse refers, to Christ's 2nd coming....when Jeus takes his church to heaven, and destroys the wicked, by the brightness of his coming, (2 Thess. 2:.

[fiveeyern]

I understand what you're saying with that verse.  But how do we reconcile that verse with what Jesus said of John and Elijah?  14 "And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come. 15 "He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

[Silver Surfer]

I understand what you're saying with that verse.  But how do we reconcile that verse with what Jesus said of John and Elijah?  14 "And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come. 15 "He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

OK, then how do you reconcile the words: Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet ......[BEFORE the coming of the great and dreadful day] of the LORD ?  

[Sulfurdolphin]

 I believe the two witnesses are going to be Elijah and Enoch, they will be witnessing in the streets 1,260 days in sackclothes then after there witnessing the Beast  coming up out of the Abyss will fight against them overcome them and kill them and their dead bodies will lie in the main street of the great city whose name to reflect its spiritual condition is Sodom and Egypt the city where their Lord was executed on a stake. (or Crucified).... Revelation chapter 10

I say it will be Elijah and Enoch is because they never tasted death God took them up in a whirlwind into heaven 2 Kings 2:1-15 and Genesis 5:24

I believe John states it clearly that he is not Elijah in John chapter 1 verse 21 And they asked him What then? Are you Elijah? He said I am not.

So i would gather that it would be Elijah and Enoch since they never seen death they will one day be murdered by the Beast. There bodies will lie in the street for 3 and half days.. Verse 11 in Revelation But after the three and a half days a breath  of life from God entered them they stood up on their feet and great fear fell on those who saw them.

But i wonder in verse 14, i wonder what this Third Woe is comingly quickly.

Michael

[Jemidon2004]

Hey sulfur...take a look at my post before last where i listed a few Scriptural parallels between the two witnesses and Moses and Elijah...just a thought. Like i said earlier...I don't know 100% who the two witnesses are and I doubt anyone else does, but we can draw from Scripture some clues...so check it out when you have some time...God Bless

In His Service,
Joshua

p.s. the city is Jerusalem!

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KEEP LOOKING UPWARD FOR CHRIST

[fiveeyern]

~sigh~.....

What I'm asking, is how do we interpret what Jesus said in my previous post?

[Jemidon2004]

What I gather is that John the Baptist was the forerunner who proclaims the Messiah's coming...and also that Elijah will return as one of the Two witness to proclaim His second coming during the Trib Period...but i can't say without entire certainty because it is prophecy we're dealing with, and prophecy most often has a local application and a long-term application or explanation of God's plan. Notice that the Jews during that time also thought that Christ was Elijah too...they weren't sure who was who...lol. they also thought John the Baptist was Elijah...and one can draw many parallels between Elijah and John the Baptist. 1. Both weren't shy about proclaiming God's Word. 2. Both spent the majority of their time out in the wilderness. 3. Both were instruments of God used to bring people to repentance. I'm sure there are a few others, but it eludes me at the moment because the teacher's about to begin to teach...lol...i hope that's of some help...if not...i hope someone else can explain it to your likeing...hope this finds you well and in God's will...God Bless

In His Service,
Joshua

[fiveeyern]

Thank you Jemidon.

[lowflatrate]

Was wondering, what did the two witnesses warn the people? If one of them is Elijah, then as what he did in the OT, destroying the BAAL false prophets, he will also warn people not to worship idols. Do not worship the image of the beast? What is the image of the beast then? So, anything not of God is of the beast and what is of the beast are idols from different Faiths.

So, I believe the 2 witnesses could be warning people not to worship idols and to carry it's mark, either on their right hand or on their forehead. If they did not repent, then they will suffer the plagues in whatever the 2 witnesses desired. They can smite the Earth in whatever ways they want and tormented those who worship the image of the beast. Still, as what is written, sadly, the people did not repent.

These 2 witnesses, I think, will make way for the Kingdom of God is coming on Earth. Everything should be cleaned and make the path straight as the King of Kings will come. Every symbol and Every idol that the Beast represents should be cast away and break it's stronghold. Nothing abominable shall be in the Kingdom of God.
 

[Silver Surfer]

FALSE TEACHING!

Nothing abominable shall be in the Kingdom of God.
 

Such as Sunday Worship services ?

 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.  
  66:23   And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD," (Isaiah 66:22,23).  

[lowflatrate]

Nothing abominable shall be in the Kingdom of God.
 

Such as Sunday Worship services ?

 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.  
  66:23   And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD," (Isaiah 66:22,23).  

Sunday Worship? I don't think worshipping the one true God on a Sunday will be abominable. We are worshipping our Lord Jesus Christ and not idols. If you notice the name Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and etc, they are actually named after the heathen gods of ancient babylon. We follow the pagan calendars, but for telling time only, and not for worship. If you are in China, you follow the Chinese calendar, but for telling time only. Even our watches, when you look at it, it follows pagan time scheme, where at the strike of 12midnite, it will be another new day. The  original is, from Sun rise to Sun rise that will equal one day. So, it's just for time sake. We do not practice it and worship their idols. We do not worship any graven images or practice pagan practices on Sunday or any other days of the week.

Look at the US dollar note. You see a pagan symbol at the back - the illuminati. Be careful not to worship money or covet things.
Do not make money the center of your life. Trust God that he will provide everything for you and not how much money you are going to earn. One should not be so obsessed in making money. Otherwise, the occult symbol will grab hold on you or ensnare you and destroy your life. Yes, we do need money to buy our everyday necessities, but our focus should be on our Lord Jesus Christ who provide us these things, and not money.  

Deutornomy 7
25 The graven images of their gods you shall burn with fire; you shall not covet the silver or the gold that is on them, or take it for yourselves, lest you be ensnared by it; for it is an abomination to the LORD your God. 26 And you shall not bring an abominable thing into your house, and become accursed like it; you shall utterly detest and abhor it; for it is an accursed thing.  

Leviticus 18
24 "Do not defile yourselves by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am casting out before you defiled themselves; 25 and the land became defiled, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you shall keep my statutes and my ordinances and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you 27 (for all of these abominations the men of the land did, who were before you, so that the land became defiled); 28 lest the land vomit you out, when you defile it, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. 29 For whoever shall do any of these abominations, the persons that do them shall be cut off from among their people. 30 So keep my charge never to practice any of these abominable customs which were practiced before you, and never to defile yourselves by them: I am the LORD your God."

So, when the two witnesses comes, they will probably warn people not to worship the image of the beast and all full trust, faith and confidence should be to God. The image of the beast are the images of false gods and deities and all the symbols that comes with it. Look at all the world flags. See how it is full of occult symbols? The popular ones are the pentagram - five pointed star, the crescent moon - the moon god/goddess symbol, the sun - sun god worship. See how people pledge on it and die for it and be patriotic? Very subtle isn't it? Don't put too much faith on your national flag/government and how it will protect you, put all your faith to God and trust that He, only He can protect you, for our citizenship is already in heaven.

[Silver Surfer]

Sunday Worship? I don't think worshipping the one true God on a Sunday will be abominable.

  " But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition ?"
"    But in vain ...they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men", (Matthew 15:3,9).  

So, when the two witnesses comes,

Have you ever thought about the Old...and the New...Testaments as being the 2 witnesses ?
After all....the whole Bible contains everything God wants people to know and understand, right ?

they will probably warn people not to worship the image of the beast

As  for this.....the whole Bible has 'already provided' ...that information.....As the Book of Daniel and Revelation (put together) has 'already' told us who the Beast is.