IS WATER BAPTISM A TESTIMONY?

[Brother Love]

IS WATER BAPTISM A TESTIMONY?
By Cornelius R. Stam

Let us suppose that you have been saved, but live a care-
less life and bear a poor testimony before the world. Would
water baptism change this? What would it be worth?

But suppose you have been saved and live a godly, con-
sistent life before the world. Is a water-confession neces-
sary? How much is it worth? Dont be afraid to answer this
question honestly. How many "baptized converts" there are
who cannot even give a word of testimony for their Lord
among the lost!

In a sense, however, the baptism of believers by water in
this age is a testimony -- a bad testimony. When the Gala-
tian believers submitted to circumcision it was a bad testi-
mony (Gal. 5:2,3). Circumcision, while a part of Peters
"gospel of the circumcision" had no place in "the gospel of
the uncircumcision" committed to Paul (Gal. 2:7). And just
as circumcision was connected with "the gospel of the cir-
cumcision" so water baptism was connected with "the gos-
pel of the kingdom" (See Matt. 3:2,6; Matt. 10:5-7; cf. John
1:31; Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; Acts 2:36-38;
Acts 3:19-21).

We solemnly declare that the present day practice of
water baptism is a reflection on the grace of God and a con-
fession of a lack of appreciation of the finished work of
Christ, and the believers completeness in Him (See Eph.
1:6; Col. 2:10). Furthermore, it betrays a poor understand-
ing of the heavenly character and position of the Church of
this age (See Eph. 2:6; Eph. 1:3; Col. 3:1-3).

Be a Berean. Search the Scriptures and see whether
these things are so.


<))><

[Brother Love]

IS WATER BAPTISM A TESTIMONY?

<))><

[sincereheart]

I wondered who it was a testimony for? Kind of like preaching to the choir??  

[Evangelist]

We solemnly declare that the present day practice of
water baptism is a reflection on the grace of God and a con-
fession of a lack of appreciation of the finished work of
Christ, and the believers completeness in Him (See Eph.
1:6; Col. 2:10). Furthermore, it betrays a poor understand-
ing of the heavenly character and position of the Church of
this age (See Eph. 2:6; Eph. 1:3; Col. 3:1-3).
Be a Berean. Search the Scriptures and see whether
these things are so.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1Cr 1:14   I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Cr 1:15   Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Cr 1:16   And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other

I suppose then, that Mr. Stam believes Paul committed a bad testimony, was a bad reflection on the grace of God, and did not appreciate the finished work of Jesus, nor his standing in Him.

Hmmmph.

"FOUR" thumbs down.

[Brother Love]

We solemnly declare that the present day practice of
water baptism is a reflection on the grace of God and a con-
fession of a lack of appreciation of the finished work of
Christ, and the believers completeness in Him (See Eph.
1:6; Col. 2:10). Furthermore, it betrays a poor understand-
ing of the heavenly character and position of the Church of
this age (See Eph. 2:6; Eph. 1:3; Col. 3:1-3).
Be a Berean. Search the Scriptures and see whether
these things are so.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1Cr 1:14   I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Cr 1:15   Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Cr 1:16   And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other

I suppose then, that Mr. Stam believes Paul committed a bad testimony, was a bad reflection on the grace of God, and did not appreciate the finished work of Jesus, nor his standing in Him.

Hmmmph.

"FOUR" thumbs down.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. NO WATER  READ 1 Corinthians 12:13

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, NO WATERREAD 1 Corinthians 12:13

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. NO WATER READ 1 Corinthians 12:13

1Cr 1:14   I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Cr 1:15   Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Cr 1:16   And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

READ VERSE SEVENTEEN

I suppose then, that Mr. Stam believes Paul committed a bad testimony, was a bad reflection on the grace of God, and did not appreciate the finished work of Jesus, nor his standing in Him. YOU KNOW NOT WHAT YOU SAY

Evangelist your teaching gets a "FIVE" Thumbs DOWN Your Preaching - That "other gospel" that Paul told us about


"...to make ALL men see" (Ephesians 3:9)

Brother Love

<))><

[Evangelist]

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. NO WATER  READ 1 Corinthians 12:13

1Cr 12:13   For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Yes...it says that the Spirit baptizes (immerses) us into the body of Christ, His Church. It does not negate Jesus' command to "baptize in the name of...." READ MAT. 28:19

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, NO WATERREAD 1 Corinthians 12:13

Same reply as above. READ MAT. 28:19

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. NO WATER READ 1 Corinthians 12:13

Same reply as above. READ MAT. 28:19

1Cr 1:14  I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Cr 1:15  Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Cr 1:16  And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
READ VERSE SEVENTEEN

1Cr 1:17   For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Correct....Paul was sent to preach, not for the purpose of baptizing....but he did baptize (some), in fulfillment of Jesus' command to "baptize in the name of...." READ MAT. 28:19

I suppose then, that Mr. Stam believes Paul committed a bad testimony, was a bad reflection on the grace of God, and did not appreciate the finished work of Jesus, nor his standing in Him.

YOU KNOW NOT WHAT YOU SAY

On the contrary...I know exactly what I am saying. It would appear that you don't know what Mr. Stam is saying

Evangelist your teaching gets a "FIVE" Thumbs DOWN Your Preaching - That "other gospel" that Paul told us about

Hmmmm....a pretty serious charge of heresy with a resultant curse attached. But since nothing I have said has presented another Jesus than the one who was crucified and died for our sins, and who was raised from the dead by the power of God, it would appear that you are.....hmmm.

As a matter of fact, were it not for the fact that you carry a name of "brother", I might be persuaded to conclude that you fall into the category of "...silly women, being led astray..." by the unscriptural machinations of a balaamite.  Why don't you try being a Berean yourself, and further....rightly dividing, instead of letting every(any) one else do it for you.

Baptize: baptizo
1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
3) to overwhelm

not to be confused with bapto, to dip (temporarily).

Baptism is NOT salvific, but it is part of a public confession (READ ROM. 10:9) of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It is a testimony to a believers UNION with Christ in death, and being reborn to eternal life. It is, and always has been, an ordinance of the church, just as is the Lord's Supper (this do in remembrance of me), and most particularly of ALL Baptist churches.

 

"...to make ALL men see" (Ephesians 3:9)

Eph 3:7   Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Eph 3:8   Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Eph 3:9   And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph 3:10   To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Eph 3:11   According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Eph 3:12   In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying ..."

[Allinall]

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. NO WATER  READ 1 Corinthians 12:13

1Cr 12:13   For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Yes...it says that the Spirit baptizes (immerses) us into the body of Christ, His Church. It does not negate Jesus' command to "baptize in the name of...." READ MAT. 28:19

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, NO WATERREAD 1 Corinthians 12:13

Same reply as above. READ MAT. 28:19

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. NO WATER READ 1 Corinthians 12:13

Same reply as above. READ MAT. 28:19

1Cr 1:14  I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Cr 1:15  Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Cr 1:16  And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
READ VERSE SEVENTEEN

1Cr 1:17   For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Correct....Paul was sent to preach, not for the purpose of baptizing....but he did baptize (some), in fulfillment of Jesus' command to "baptize in the name of...." READ MAT. 28:19

I suppose then, that Mr. Stam believes Paul committed a bad testimony, was a bad reflection on the grace of God, and did not appreciate the finished work of Jesus, nor his standing in Him.

YOU KNOW NOT WHAT YOU SAY

On the contrary...I know exactly what I am saying. It would appear that you don't know what Mr. Stam is saying

Evangelist your teaching gets a "FIVE" Thumbs DOWN Your Preaching - That "other gospel" that Paul told us about

Hmmmm....a pretty serious charge of heresy with a resultant curse attached. But since nothing I have said has presented another Jesus than the one who was crucified and died for our sins, and who was raised from the dead by the power of God, it would appear that you are.....hmmm.

As a matter of fact, were it not for the fact that you carry a name of "brother", I might be persuaded to conclude that you fall into the category of "...silly women, being led astray..." by the unscriptural machinations of a balaamite.  Why don't you try being a Berean yourself, and further....rightly dividing, instead of letting every(any) one else do it for you.

Baptize: baptizo
1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
3) to overwhelm

not to be confused with bapto, to dip (temporarily).

Baptism is NOT salvific, but it is part of a public confession (READ ROM. 10:9) of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It is a testimony to a believers UNION with Christ in death, and being reborn to eternal life. It is, and always has been, an ordinance of the church, just as is the Lord's Supper (this do in remembrance of me), and most particularly of ALL Baptist churches.

 

"...to make ALL men see" (Ephesians 3:9)

Eph 3:7   Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Eph 3:8   Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Eph 3:9   And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph 3:10   To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Eph 3:11   According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Eph 3:12   In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying ..."

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEENNNNN!!!!!!![/b][/u]

[Brother Love]

Allinall  you get "FOUR" Thumbs DOWN and "TWO" BIG Toes DOWN with Evangelist  

Maybe I will start up a sunday school class for both of you.

<))><

[Evangelist]

Maybe I will start up a sunday school class for both of you.

ROFL.....just let me know when you get a pad and a sharp pencil, and are ready to take notes....be more than happy to lead you thru it all.  

[Brother Love]

Maybe I will start up a sunday school class for both of you.

ROFL.....just let me know when you get a pad and a sharp pencil, and are ready to take notes....be more than happy to lead you thru it all.  

 

[Brother Love]

The Scriptures contain several water baptism ceremonies which we believe are related to God's earthly kingdom purposes concerning Israel and the nations (Acts 2:36-38; 13:24), but the Apostle Paul, whom Christ sent not to baptise (1 Cor 1:17), explicitly states concerning the Body of Christ, "There is one baptism" (Eph 4:5), which is administered by the Holy Spirit and not by human hands (Col 2:11,12), which results in the permanent union of every believer as a member of the Church which is His Body (1 Cor 12:13). Therefore this Church does not practise the ordinance of water baptism BUT recognising the differences in understanding on the part of sincere believers in this Church and from other denominations who are our beloved brother and sisters in Christ, grants the liberty to its members in grace to adhere to their own convictions on the subject, as long as they do not invest any saving merit in water baptism, or make the subject a matter of contention in the Church.

I agree with the above doctrine

Brother Love  

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[ollie]

1 Corinthians 1:13.  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

In whose authority or name is baptism conducted?

That seems to make it slightly more than a testimony on man's part.

Ollie

[Sower]

Be a Berean. Search the Scriptures and see whether
these things are so.

And you will discover that ultra- or hyper-dispensationalism [of which Mr. Stam is an advocate] is false doctrine.

Water baptism is (1) a commandment of Christ for all believers in all ages (Matt. 18:18-20); (2) it is a necessity for the believer (Mark 16:15,16) and is tied together with salvation -- repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ; (3) it is symbolic of the believer's union with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection (Rom. 6:4,5); (4) it is a testimony of God's grace to the sinner, and the sinner's faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 8:36-39); (5) it is the first act of "the obedience of faith" for the believer (Acts 2:37-41).

To deny the necessity and the significance of water baptism is to deny God's truth, to make God a liar, and "to withstand God" (Acts 10:44-48; 11:14-18) which even the great apostle Peter was fearful of doing.

Mr. Stam and those who hold to this teaching -- the rejection of water baptism for the believer -- are playing with fire.

[Rich]

Who is this Stam, and how did he get so confused? Did brother love lead him astray or is it vice versa?

[Sower]

I wondered who it was a testimony for? Kind of like preaching to the choir??  

Had you taken the time to investigate, you would have found that water baptism is first and foremost a testimony or witness before God of what He has done by His grace for the sinner -- given him or her the gift of the Holy Spirit: "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, WHICH HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST AS WELL AS WE? AND HE COMMANDED [note this word] THEM TO BE BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord..." (Acts 10:47,48).

Peter explained later that since it was God who had given the Gentiles the gift of eternal life, it behoved him to have them baptized, thus testifying to the grace of God towards Gentiles (acts 11:15-18).

When Jesus of Nazareth was baptized, it was God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit who testified to His being the "Anointed One" -- the Messiah (Matt. 3:13-17), and the Lord said to John the Baptizer "FOR THUS IT BECOMETH US TO FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS".

Paul himself was baptized immediately after receiving back his sight, and because he had "fulfilled all righteouness" , he was "filled with the Holy Spirit" and immediately empowered to preach the Gospel (Acts 9:8-21).

When a sinner receives the gift of the Holy Spirit, he receives the internal "washing of regeneration, and renewal of the Holy Ghost" (Tit. 3:3-7). Believer's baptism is a testimony before God and man that a sinner has been saved by grace, because there is rejoicing in Heaven over one sinner who repents. That is why Paul took the trouble to baptize the Philippian jailor and his household at midnight (Acts 16:25-34) in obedience to Christ -- "to fulfill all righteousness".