The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church

[HisDaughter]

  I know that in my case, the Holy Spirit was very much involved in convicting me and showing me that I was lost.  Once I was shown by God that I was lost.........I cried out to the Lord to save me. 

That is exactly how I came to Him also.  Maybe that's how I should be praying for my loved ones!  I usually pray that God would draw them to Him with an urgency and to put people in their lives that would speak the truth to them, because they won't listen to me.  I also ask God to remove the rebellion in their right hand.
But I think it's so true that folks don't call on the Lord until they need Him, so I think I will start added for God to show them how lost they are.  Thanks David!

[david749]

Thanks much GrammyLuv.


I know for me my life had been spiraling downhill for quite a few months.  I was not really seeking God........but as it turns out.... He was seeking Me.


"......for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost."   


"Behold I stand at the door and knock.........."


As a very young child.....I was close to God......but then deliberately sinned at around the age of 9.  After reading and being able to understand the Scriptures at that age.........I deliberately stole some change from a man's pants while at the swimming pool.  That one sin......or perhaps even one before it......the first deliberate sin........killed me.   I then went into a period of rebellion against God......without even being aware of this......for more than twenty years.   

But like the prodigal son in Scripture........God was patient with me......and greatly welcomed my return.  Here is a nice sermon about the prodigal son if you have time.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATqJ1azhr_A

[david749]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4051918,00.html

[nChrist]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4051918,00.html

I have read in several other articles that they are determined to resume sacrifices, just as Bible Prophecy says that they will.

[david749]

http://thegoldenreport.com/special-reports/5-the-roots-of-evil-in-jerusalem

[david749]

I moved from the Pre-Trib to the Pre-Wrath position so many years ago that it is difficult for me to remember all the specifics of Pre-Trib. 


It appears to me from the following verse that the door to salvation is closed upon the appearance of the man of evil.  Who exactly then are the Tribulation Saints as talked about by those adhering to Pre-Trib?


The King of Egypt had been persecuting Israel for quite some time.  Then......even after seeing firsthand the wrath judgments of God.......he would relent for awhile........but then again begin to persecute Israel.  God had hardened his heart.  In the end times, God will send forth a strong delusion.  I believe that it will have a similar affect on those living through that time.




"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders., and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

"And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they ALL (ALL) may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."


Just prior to the coming of the lawless one:   "they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved."


The door to salvation therefore appears to be shut at the time of his coming.......the son of perdition. 


Several years later, the 6th Trumpet Judgment of the 7th Seal will be so severe that one-third of mankind will be killed.

Of the survivors.........how many will come to Christ?   How many are already in Christ?       Answer:   None           (See Rev. 9: 20-21)


"But the rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood........

[david749]

I think that I mentioned in another place that in my opinion Hitler might be the one who "will ascend out of the bottomless pit" and be the end time man of evil  (Rev. 17:

"He is the 8th and is of the seven" (v. 11) suggests that one of the past seven leaders who persecuted Israel will be coming back to life. 


However there are also some current unusual things re. our current leader.  When Jesus said that he saw satan fall as lightning from heaven......he was speaking Hebrew.  I have reviewed articles which state that this would sound to us like:   "Satan Barrack Obama."


For those interested in mathematics:


1.  Our leader was serving in Illinois prior to his election.  On the day when his victory was announced, the Illinois lottery number was:   666.

2.  Just last weekend S and P decided to downgrade the USA credit rating for the first time ever.  Stocks subsequently fell sharply that Monday.  At the end of Monday's trading session:

The Dow Jones was down:    5.55%     (Hitler's party number was 555)

The S and P index was down:    6.66%     (The number of the beast)


The S and P closed at 1119.    Turning this number backward.....the first three digits are:    911.


For 666.........if you multiply it 6 times 6 times 6.........you get 216.   Based on the birth certificate produced for our current leader..........his birthday is August 4th.......the 216th day of the calendar year.   


One possible scenario:   satan has been kicked out of heaven along with one third of the angels.  He is currently temporarily residing inside our current leader.  Our current leader might at some time in the future be taken out.....and rise again three days later as Hitler.  Many in the world will marvel and chase after him. 


"The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and to to perdition.  And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

"And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition."


The ten major banking families that have been running the world since The French Revolution will form an alliance with the man of evil.   They will switch from being invisible rulers to visible rulers with the anti-christ.

"These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast."

"And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet (no visible kingdom), but they receive authority for one hour as kings (become visible kings) with the beast."



 

[nChrist]

Brother David,

I'll just say that we're not in agreement and leave it at that. I think that it's fine to agree to disagree.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[david749]

That's OK Tom......I did not really expect anyone to agree with me.


It is very nice to have this forum available.


Keep up the good work.......you and all your co-workers in Christ. 


David

[david749]

"And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.  These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast."  (Rev. 17: 12-13)


One possibility for this is ten great international banking dynasties........united..... and quietly gobbling up the whole world for many years.........will turn over great power to the man of evil when he comes.........in exchange for visible rulership over the world as kings with him. 


http://www.prisonplanet.com/corporatism-is-not-capitalism.html

[david749]

Summary of the Pre-Wrath Position:

God's wrath is very distinct and cannot be duplicated by either satan or man.

The 144,000 of Israel are not sealed from harm prior to the First Seal of Revelation........but just prior to the 7th Seal.  They will remain on earth.  Also at that time a great multitude which no one could number from all nations is seen in heaven.  They are not spirits as they can wear robes and have palm branches in their hands.


First five seals..........a continuation of Satan's wrath which has been going on for many years and temporarily allowed by God.  It will be much worse......as Satan and his angels will have been kicked out of heaven knowing that their time is short. 


5th Seal........Satan will first try to kill off all of Israel.  This begins at the mid-point of Daniel's 70th week.  Christ tells those in the area to leave everything behind and flee to the mountains.  God will supernaturally protect a remnant in the wilderness (Rev 12).  This is not because of anything good about Israel.......but to defend His Holy Name and Promise made to Abraham for his act of faith and obedience (Gen 22).   Satan will then become enraged and go after the "offspring"......the Gentile Christians who have been grafted into the natural branch.  This severe persecution will go on for awhile and then God will cut it short (end it).......otherwise no flesh would be saved. 


6th Seal:   Worldwide darkness for an unspecified period of time.  The elites of the world hide in fear in the mountains and caves.  They declare that God's wrath is about to begin.


Then......the 144,000 are sealed from harm and the Christians are caught up by angels to be with the Lord.


7th Seal:   God's wrath.........the trumpet and bowl judgments........comprising approx. the final one to two years of Daniel's 70th week. 


Christ instructs people to flee to the wilderness...........and also that friends and even family members might turn on you after the man of evil is revealed. 

Scripture suggests the God will take care of you supernaturlly in the wilderness.......in a way similar to how He delivered Israel from Egypt.........and how He fought for David the teenage shephard against the giant.

Faith (in advance) is very important in this regard.......taking that first step of faith and letting God do the rest.


Psalm 27: 5
Psalm 31: 20
Psalm 34: 7
Psalm 91


After Christ returns........the 70 weeks of years will be over.  The time of punishment will be over and God will no longer hide His face from Israel.  God will put His Spirit inside of all those of Israel who remain (Ezekiel Chps 34---39)

Christ (written approx. 480 B.C.):

"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication;  then they will look on Me whom they have pierced;  they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn."  (Zech 12: 10)


Israel's words of repentance upon Christ's return:   Isaiah 53: 3-9.......written 700 B.C........past tense used.......a prophecy of future events that will take place.......Israel looking back to the cross.......mourning.......and realizing what they have done.