DISCUSSION FORUMS
MAIN MENU
Home
Help
Advanced Search
Recent Posts
Site Statistics
Who's Online
Forum Rules
Bible Resources
• Bible Study Aids
• Bible Devotionals
• Audio Sermons
Community
• ChristiansUnite Blogs
• Christian Forums
• Facebook Apps
Web Search
• Christian Family Sites
• Top Christian Sites
• Christian RSS Feeds
Family Life
• Christian Finance
• ChristiansUnite KIDS
Shop
• Christian Magazines
• Christian Book Store
Read
• Christian News
• Christian Columns
• Christian Song Lyrics
• Christian Mailing Lists
Connect
• Christian Singles
• Christian Classifieds
Graphics
• Free Christian Clipart
• Christian Wallpaper
Fun Stuff
• Clean Christian Jokes
• Bible Trivia Quiz
• Online Video Games
• Bible Crosswords
Webmasters
• Christian Guestbooks
• Banner Exchange
• Dynamic Content

Subscribe to our Free Newsletter.
Enter your email address:

ChristiansUnite
Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 15, 2017, 05:19:54 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
277980 Posts in 26517 Topics by 3790 Members
Latest Member: Goodwin
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  ChristiansUnite Forums
|-+  Theology
| |-+  Bible Study (Moderator: admin)
| | |-+  The Church's job?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The Church's job?  (Read 9710 times)
KittiK
Guest
« on: January 29, 2004, 10:49:16 AM »

I have recently been in a conversation about the homeless and elderly, poor and the desolate. The basic argument was whether or not this is the church's job to take care of these people. I know the Bible gives specific instructions, but I can't find them. My question is.......what does the Bible say about that and where do I find it?  Please help. Thanks.
Logged
michael_legna
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 832



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2004, 11:06:20 AM »

I have recently been in a conversation about the homeless and elderly, poor and the desolate. The basic argument was whether or not this is the church's job to take care of these people. I know the Bible gives specific instructions, but I can't find them. My question is.......what does the Bible say about that and where do I find it?  Please help. Thanks.

The Church has many jobs or purposes, but the one I think you are focusing on right now is best expressed in the Book of James

James 1:27  Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Logged

Matt 5:11  Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake:
KittiK
Guest
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2004, 11:29:47 AM »

Thank you for the direction.
I think I found what I was looking for in James Chapter 2.
I was a little off in my view however. Thank you for helping me get back on track.
Logged
MalkyEL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 343



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2004, 08:32:51 PM »

Thought this might help too  Smiley

Matt 25:31 But when the Son of man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His glory.
32 And all nations shall be gathered before Him. And He shall separate them from one another, as a shepherd divides the sheep from the goats.
33 And indeed He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats off the left.
34 Then the King shall say to those on His right hand , Come, blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry, and you gave me food; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you took Me in;
36 I was naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.
37 Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry, and fed You ? Or thirsty, and gave You drink?
38 When did we see You a stranger, and took You in? Or naked, and clothed You ?
39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and came to You?
40 And the King shall answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you have done it to Me.
41 Then He also shall say to those on the left hand , Depart from Me, you cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry, and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty, and you gave Me no drink;
43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in; I was naked, and you did not clothe Me; I was sick, and in prison, and you did not visit me.
44 Then they will also answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to You?
45 Then He shall answer them, saying, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.
Logged

Be mindful of the prisoners, as having been bound with them; of those ill-treated, as also being in the body yourselves.  Hebrews 13:3
KittiK
Guest
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2004, 08:45:42 PM »

So, if I am not mistaken...you are saying that it is the responsibility of all Christians to take care of these in need? Thank you for your input. I, sadly, had forgotten about this verse. Should I post this question here or someplace else?...

I see that it is a Christians responsibility to take care of those in need, but is it the Churches job to shoulder the responsibility to teach members about it, and ensure it gets done? Who actually becomes responsible for the unfortunate if and when the welfare program goes bust?

Logged
nChrist
Global Moderator
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 60627


May God Lead And Guide Us All


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2004, 10:18:05 PM »

Oklahoma Howdy to MalkyEL,

I see this is your first post, so let me welcome you to Christians Unite.


That was a beautiful portion of Scripture that should touch the heart of every Christian. This portion of Scripture should convict all of us to share more of what God has given us with those who are in need.

THANKS!

Love In Christ,
Tom
« Last Edit: January 29, 2004, 10:41:59 PM by blackeyedpeas » Logged

MalkyEL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 343



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2004, 10:24:31 PM »

That is a real loaded question  Roll Eyes

My personal opinion, for what it's worth - here goes  Wink

Paul taught us that the body of Messiah has many parts that are all supposed to work together in unity with Jesus as the head.  This would certainly rely on every person within the body functioning with perfect unity.  It ain't gonna happen, sorry to say.

I guess you could say the church has created a monster.  We have pretty much failed since those early days when the disciples all met together with oneness.  As the church became larger and spread out, heresy and deception flooded in.  No longer was it a body in unity, but one of separation - which has continued to this day.  

As a person who believes that God is in control, I see that He has institued other ways for the poor, orphans, needy, downtrodden, homeless, and broken people of this world to be served and ministered to.  Not that it has been accomplished by any stretch - hence worldwide pockets of severe famine and hopelessness.  The church cannot possibly manage the problems that are world wide at this point.  

Instead of looking at the failures of the body in this regard, I prefer to look at what God can and will do through in spite of where we went wrong.  The government and other humanitarian organizations contribute, as do larger Christian organizations.  So lets bring this down to personal and local church management.  

Every church has the responsibility to do what God instructs them in regards to reaching out.  Not all churches are interested, to be blunt.  Hopefully yours does care.  There are probably different types of care organizations in your area that are sponsered by churches.  In my area, churches often join together for one mission or another.  Some churches who are really motivated can manage their own programs.  If being a part of reaching out is really on your heart, you need to hook into that.

On a personal level, I believe that God can direct you to give monetarily and/or material goods or by your involvement.  Reaching out to others does not always mean the desitute.  There are many who need love, compassion, a phone call, a ride - you name it.  Look for volunteer agencies in your area and offer your services.  Hook up with Christian Pen Pals and write to a prisoner on death row - there are literally thousands who have no one who cares - make that a church project.  These women and guys need financial support as well.  Or get a group of friends together and serve in a soup kitchen on a weekly basis.  Give groceries to food pantries.

Involvement within the body of Messiah does not mean specifically an organized church, but others, who are one in Spirit with you, as God directs to reach out.  Jesus wants us to continually reach out in love whereever He points the way.  It is more about you taking part whereever you can.  If your church is receptive to involvement, cool.  But if it is not, then get involved in other ways.  The body is inclusive of all believers.

You mentioned if the welfare system breaks down, who will be responsible.  To be honest, there is no organization that could take it over.  It would have to be managed on a local level.  That may mean churches would have to get together, but that is usually difficult as everyone has specific ideas on how that should be accomplished.  There are millions of people on the welfare roles in this country.  We can complain about government interference, but the church has willingly given over its commission to outside of itself.  It is kind of late at this point to think we can restore it.  God can and will get the job done in other ways.  Right now, I think we need to concentrate on how we can do His will right now with those around us.  Focus on the need where you are at, not at what you cannot change or you will drive yourself nuts  Grin

Forgive me if that seems like a clinical approach.  My heart breaks for those in need.  We are Jesus' hands and feet.  How will they know Him unless His love and compassion are reflected in and through us, one by one.

Logged

Be mindful of the prisoners, as having been bound with them; of those ill-treated, as also being in the body yourselves.  Hebrews 13:3
MalkyEL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 343



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2004, 10:30:59 PM »

Hi! Tom, thanx for the welcome  Cool!  I am from Michigan where there is a ton of snow and frigid temps - hope it is warmer where you all are!!! Cheesy
Logged

Be mindful of the prisoners, as having been bound with them; of those ill-treated, as also being in the body yourselves.  Hebrews 13:3
nChrist
Global Moderator
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 60627


May God Lead And Guide Us All


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2004, 10:40:44 PM »

So, if I am not mistaken...you are saying that it is the responsibility of all Christians to take care of these in need? Thank you for your input. I, sadly, had forgotten about this verse. Should I post this question here or someplace else?...

Oklahoma Howdy to KittiK,

I think this is a great place for this topic. There are many beautiful portions of the Holy Bible that deal with Christian charity and love. I'm thinking right now of several portions of Scripture I would like to post. I think it's a must for every Christian to have a kind and giving heart, not simply because the Holy Bible commands it, rather we do it for the joy of giving. Thanks for starting this thread. I think that many will have serious thoughts about Christian charity, and we all should. Yes, I think it is the job of every Christian to help those in need. We must remember that God gave us freely everything we have. If God gave us more than we need, we should help those who are in need and suffering. That beautiful portion of Scripture MalkyEL posted makes it plain that what we do for the least of HIS we are doing for HIM.

I see that it is a Christians responsibility to take care of those in need, but is it the Churches job to shoulder the responsibility to teach members about it, and ensure it gets done? Who actually becomes responsible for the unfortunate if and when the welfare program goes bust?

When you say Church, I immediately associate that word with the ONE CHURCH, the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST, a church not made with human hands. Christian love and charity is one of the primary teachings throughout the Holy Bible. I think it is every individual Christian's job to help any way they can, either individually or collectively. Nearly all brick and mortar churches have regular missions and offerings specifically for this purpose.

Thanks - Great topic, one that needs to be addressed!

Love In Christ,
Tom
Logged

nChrist
Global Moderator
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 60627


May God Lead And Guide Us All


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2004, 11:00:58 PM »

Hi! Tom, thanx for the welcome  Cool!  I am from Michigan where there is a ton of snow and frigid temps - hope it is warmer where you all are!!! Cheesy

Oklahoma Howdy to MalkyEL,

You are most welcome. I really look forward to reading your posts. Your first one just reached out and grabbed my heart.

I've been hearing about all the people dying with problems associated with the almost record cold. UM??, maybe it is a record. I've been praying for those who are trying to live through this. It's about 30 degrees here in Oklahoma and rarely gets much lower than that. However, we get paid back in the summer with regular temperatures of 105-110 and sometimes as high as 120. I've lived here all my life, so I know what to expect. Am I correct that nobody expected such a fierce winter storm there?

Love In Christ,
Tom
Logged

MalkyEL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 343



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2004, 11:19:53 PM »

Tom wrote:
Am I correct that nobody expected such a fierce winter storm there?

In Michigan that is a way of winter life here - we may not like it, but oh well!!!  It was expected and plenty of warning.  We get dumped on quite a bit - I live in the Grand Rapids area which means we get "Lake effect"  extra snow due to the warming of systems coming over Lake Michigan.  Our typical snowfall is around 5 feet total for the season.  Some years we get lots more than that - I would venture to guess this year is going to make up for a loss in the last few  Cool.  Around here, you grin and bear it.  Most people are equipped to withstand the frigid temps and heavy snowfalls.  And of course the kids scream in delight with "snowdays" and no school Grin.  The temps, at least here, are pretty normal - we range anywhere from 20 to -10 --  it's the windchill that makes it bad - any wind will make it feel lots colder - like 10-40 degrees lower depending on mph of the wind  Undecided.

We do have casualties due to shoveling snow more than anything, due to heartattacks.  As with all traumatic weather conditions, people do lose their lives.  It is a grievous thing, I agree.  Thank you for your prayers.

Shalom  Wink
Logged

Be mindful of the prisoners, as having been bound with them; of those ill-treated, as also being in the body yourselves.  Hebrews 13:3
KittiK
Guest
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2004, 11:07:06 AM »

I see that it is a Christians responsibility to take care of those in need, but is it the Churches job to shoulder the responsibility to teach members about it, and ensure it gets done? Who actually becomes responsible for the unfortunate if and when the welfare program goes bust?

When you say Church, I immediately associate that word with the ONE CHURCH, the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST, a church not made with human hands. Christian love and charity is one of the primary teachings throughout the Holy Bible. I think it is every individual Christian's job to help any way they can, either individually or collectively. Nearly all brick and mortar churches have regular missions and offerings specifically for this purpose.

Thanks - Great topic, one that needs to be addressed!

Love In Christ,
Tom
Quote

Well....no. I mean the man-made ones. If I am not mistaken, Jesus has already shouldered this responsibility. We have to address it here on Earth. People are trying to get rid of the welfare programs and I want to know who's supposed to step in for the government? It has always been a Christians job to help others, but there has got to be a better program out there that will end the dependance on welfare for those who take advantage of it.
I was thinking that if it was the responsibility of the Church body to take care of the trully need in their area....what area would be uncovered? I know that they have a program to help...but (and please forgive me for this one, but I've seen it myself) some Churches are very passive about it. There is no active drive, they wait for the people to come to them, the Church head does not teach nor expect the Church body to take this responsibilty seriously. IMO the area around the church (be it Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Whatever...) needs to be completely taken care of as far out as the members can go.
Why can't we offer the services to everyone and change minds by example and lifestyle? Daycare for area residents, afterschool programs, teach children to volunteer at the elderly centers, focus on the children of the area since they are the leaders of tomorrow. So what if they do not attend the church. Maybe they will start if they see how much good you do for people and how you make people feel. Maybe they won't...you gave them the chance, you told them..that's what the Bible asks, right?  
If your Church gets the area back on top and you have money and time left over, then go to a sister church in a poorer area that doesn't have the same opportunities that you did and help them. give them the extra money, volunteer with the daycare service.
Now I am ranting, my apologies.

Love and Hope,
KittiK
Logged
Symphony
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3117


I'm a llama!


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2004, 01:16:02 PM »

Over the last century, or longer, we've seen the traditional domain of the churches, welfare, gradually aborbed or taken over by worldly governements--at least, largely, in western civilized nations.  This is what the term "socilism" is all about.  New Zealand, I believe, along with European nations have been at the vanguard of this movement, even in the wake of such hugh, total failures as the Communist experiements with it, in Stalinist Russia, China, Viet Nam, Cambodia...   Socialized medicine, old age pensions(social security, in 1935), etc.

The nice thing about such programs is, they let your avg. Christian off the hook to go ahead and pursue his own interests, like everyone else, under the excuse that his more needy brother will be taken care of, just go sign up, and therefore I don't have to do anything.

This is what generally seems to be happening on a worldwide scale, even if for the time being here in U.S. we may be backpeddling some by giving churches back more of thier domain--only temporarily, tho, I think; altho, anyway, arguably, you could say that churches in many ways already are an arm of the state now, anyway.

I use to work in a "clearinghouse" for the indigent.  We had 60 churches on a list and  the welfare offices too.  ONly about half of those churches could do much--help on a utility bill,  a bag of groceries, finding a place to stay.  I was in charge of coordinating who could take the next request, ascertaining validity, etc.  It was a process of calling around checking to see if we were being taken for a ride, sometimes.  Most of course were probably legitimate--bad accidents leaving people without support, etc.

Still, sometimes, it was a question of becoming an enabler--the habitually unemployed.  You had to screen those out as best you could, on the budget you had to work with.
Logged
KittiK
Guest
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2004, 02:31:26 PM »

It falls under the Father and Son rule....How far do you go before you have to let go? At what point can you say you've done your best? Maybe we should go ahead and suffer these just to have that positive effect on their children.  Eventually the results will be seen. Not that we make the parents seem less than, but that we make the kids FEEL better about life by doing, not getting. More input from the positive than the negative.

I hear my fellow brothers and sisters say things like, I wish I could help, but.....
I don't think they realize exactly what is needed to help the less fortunate. Yes money, time, love, patience and above all faith is required. However, I have seen the effects of a smile on someone having a bad day. A small compliment on a sweater choice can brighten someone's entire week.

I was lost one time and I couldn't find the skating rink for my son's little league football party. I went into a little corner store to ask for directions. This guy that was paying for his gas turned around to answer me and he looked kind of upset. After he gave me directions I said "Thank you, you're awesome!" He smiled a smile that I will never forget.

Sometimes we get stuck on the big issues and forget the little things.
Logged
Reba
Guest
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2004, 05:41:21 PM »

It is a SHAME that the churches have sat back and put this responsibilty on the  government. Yes we (we being the churches, the christians)  should care for the widows and orphans. That scripture does not inculde men?  Many of the homeless are homeless by their choice. Go ahead tell some cold  hungry dirty old man about how much Jesus cares for em! We should feed em help them to be warm etc. For some folks this migh mean  giving directly to a person, maybe the  "cupboard' of your church. Might be the the cupboard of the "other " church cuz they are doing the job best.

A million years ago (1951) Dad made $1200.00 for the year. Just so you know that is not a mistake that is 100 per month. That was working a ' real job' and being the pastor.  A man knocked on the door ...  wife and kids in the old car...  He told  Dad Pastor X had sent him this way to look for work and could  we spare a few $$ . Dad reached into his pocket and gave the guy a $5  and he left .... Mom shows up .... She was asking what was going on? YOU DID WHAT? after further discussion  Dad  thought maybe she is right... so he jumped in the car and headed down town ... In Lordsburg New Mexico the man was easy to find.... he was in the bar... the wife and kids  setting in the hot car still hungry... Dad goes into the bar  takes the  money from in front of the guy goes and gets food for the wife and kids...  

We are to be good stewards... Read what ever you want into or from this story ...

Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



More From ChristiansUnite...    About Us | Privacy Policy | | ChristiansUnite.com Site Map | Statement of Beliefs



Copyright © 1999-2016 ChristiansUnite.com. All rights reserved.
Please send your questions, comments, or bug reports to the

Powered by SMF 1.1 RC2 | SMF © 2001-2005, Lewis Media