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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
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Author Topic: Submitting to Husbands  (Read 15758 times)
I Brake for Jesus
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« on: January 28, 2004, 03:13:54 PM »

I'd be willing to bet that there was a topic on this before but I'm too lazy to run a search. So here it goes.

I've got a while to go before I get married. I've got a while to go before I'm even legally ABLE to get married. However..

The submitting to husbands thing really gets to me. And I've had it explained to me 100 times over. I've come to the conclusion that in this case giving me like facts isn't going to help. It's an emotional thing. The idea doesn't sit well with me. I'm not sure why; I mean, I get it completely. It just seems so sexist no matter how ANYONE explains it.

So, um, I guess I'm reaching out to someone to help me understand this- not in my head, but in my heart. God's ways and thoughts are higher than mine, and redemption is bigger than these doubts of mine.

Please don't get frustrated with me if I don't accept it right away. Believe me, I want to. Sometimes I just feel like women are 2nd class in God's eyes *AND I KNOW THIS ISN'T BIBLICAL I.E. GAL 3:28* but I feel like it. I look back in the O.T. and read all this stuff about multiple wives and concubines, and how God didn't do anything about it.. it just hurts me to see my Lord and Savior seeminly promoting a chauvinistic society. My studying of the Fall has led me to knowing that it wasn't all Eve's fault. I just don't get it. Adam was right there. The fact that he didn't step up should have set off this big warning sign in God's head that maybe men aren't well suited for leadership. And I guess that argument isn't very fair. I mean, not every man is Adam. But then again, not every woman is Eve, and therefore.. not every woman would have done what Eve did.

I want to enter into the ministry. A lot of people get on my case about it and I'm sure some women here too will jump down my throat. But I do believe that it's a calling from God. I've just got a lotta stuff sort out and quiet a bit of time for me to work through it all. And this, I believe, is another obstical I'm going to have to overcome to reach for my dreams. This issue is hindering my relationship with God. I get angry with Him a lot about it. So please help.

Love and God Bless,
Jenn
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2004, 06:36:00 PM »

The submitting to husbands thing really gets to me. And I've had it explained to me 100 times over. I've come to the conclusion that in this case giving me like facts isn't going to help. It's an emotional thing. The idea doesn't sit well with me. I'm not sure why; I mean, I get it completely. It just seems so sexist no matter how ANYONE explains it.

It's a difficult concept... And I bet if you ask 100 different people, you'd get 100 different explanations. So I won't offer another one... Wink
But.... maybe it would help if you consider what 'submission' isn't~
1) It isn't a slave/master thing
2) It isn't a smart man/stupid woman thing
3) It isn't a women don't count thing
4) It isn't a women have no mind thing
5) It isn't a women have no rights thing
6) It isn't a woman must bow to her man thing
7) And the best thing is: It isn't a woman must submit to ALL men thing!  Grin
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Whitehorse
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2004, 10:26:06 PM »

Well, marriage is an image of Christ in the church. When people get married, they're testifying to a future event. The men are in a way, a type of Christ, and the women are a type of the bride of Christ. We are *supposed* to live out our marriages the way Christ and the church function. One in loving leadership, the other in loving submission, and the two one. Of course, yo would want to submit to Christ, right?

But of course we live in a sinful world. So it can really take the bloom off the rose, so to speak.

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Willowbirch
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« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2004, 08:53:18 PM »

Well, marriage is an image of Christ in the church. When people get married, they're testifying to a future event. The men are in a way, a type of Christ, and the women are a type of the bride of Christ. We are *supposed* to live out our marriages the way Christ and the church function. One in loving leadership, the other in loving submission, and the two one. Of course, yo would want to submit to Christ, right?

But of course we live in a sinful world. So it can really take the bloom off the rose, so to speak.


That's very nice, Whitehorse. And not only does the wife submit to her husband; he cares for her. He is not told to be her master, but rather to follow in the example of Christ and devote his life to her. Within their own "positions", neither is greater than the other, she in submitting to his authority nor he in laying down his life for her.

I would also like to make a comment on something in Jenn's post concerning the sins of Biblical figures: nowhere does it say that God approved of their every act. Righteousness was accounted to them through faith; they did not earn it, and they weren't perfect. "All have fallen short of the Glory of God". The only human that was ever a perfect example of what God approves is Jesus.
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2004, 02:13:02 PM »

Your not alone sweetie! I too have the same problem & trying to understand fully the submitting to the husband thing. I had it explained to me by my Mum one time and it really made me think & understand it a bit more in a good way.
She said, (Just as Sincereheart did) that is wasn't like "Oh you absolutely do what he tells you or else..." And that we arent slaves to them. She explained that when we are in love & we have Jesus watching over the marriage it becomes something you want to do, not because you have to persay. She said like your husband loves you so much and you share all your thoughts, etc. and he helps you in problems, trying times, etc. so you have a love for him that you want to submit because its (the marriage itself) is being guided by Christ so you grow with each other not only in each others eyes, but the Lords eyes and that "submitting" part isnt viewed as a "bad" thing, that its actually a very loving, devoted thing to have between each other.
I KNOW I messed that up and Im sure its confusing, SORRY Sad, but thats how I remember it & understand it. I just think I kept thinking assuming it meant I had to do every single thing my husband said or I was sinning against the Lord ya know? SmileySmiley Good Luck to you & your future hubby!:)Smiley
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Willowbirch
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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2004, 04:32:35 PM »

awww, thanks, NateyCakes!  Smiley
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Shylynne
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2004, 11:00:37 AM »

I love the way this writer explains Gods plan of submission:

God's plan for marriage is for two people, to come together, lay aside themselves and seek to meet the needs of their mate. To abandon our own desires, agendas and be willing to get in the skin of another person.
A man must sacrifice himself. A woman must submit herself. Just like we do when we come to Jesus. Lay down our pride. Lay down our self.. Rest our faith and trust in Him.

Submission is a matter of the will. By means of force, you can impose terms of surrender upon someone, but as many prisoners of war will tell you, keeping their will free, even if their body was in bondage, is what kept them alive. In other words, submission is an issue of the heart. Submission demands that our motives, and not only our actions, be in order.

Marriage, in this way, mirrors and reflects our Christianity itself. Jesus asks His followers to not only do what He does, but to love what He loves, and love as He loves. The whole of Christianity is about a humble submission of our individual will to the sovereign will of God. Our faith falters if we are incapable of acknowledging and honoring God's authority over all of our life. Our marriages falter, if we fail to be totally unselfish with regard to our spouses.

Submission is a statement of position, not of value or worth or skill. God was not addressing worth when He set up the rules and roles, God was addressing function! In every partnership, someone has to be the bottom line, the place where the buck stops, the tie-breaker. And in marriage, God gave that function to husbands.

Only a fool of a man (and there are plenty of them) takes that function and uses it to dominate, intimidate, take advantage of and Lord over his wife. And in doing that, a husband proves he has no understanding of what it means to be a godly husband. Submission is not a excuse for dictatorship. I have never met a husband who loves his wife sacrificially, as Christ loves the church, whose wife is not submitted to him.

[BUT] - The Bible clearly makes submission a reflection of a woman's relationship with God. What is left out is the conditions. Oh, we are quick to make those conditions. "I would honor him, IF he ?.. {fill in the blank.}" But the Bible doesn't say submit to your husband IF he is worthy of respect and honor. But the wife's duty to honor and respect her husband's position, is not dependent on how well he performs.
When you took him as your husband, you addressed his worthiness at the altar.

What if a husband is not worthy of respect? What if he is a lousy husband? What if he is not following God's directive to love sacrificially? The Bible addresses that.

1 Peter 3:1-2 You wives should yield to your husbands. Then, if some husbands do not obey God's teaching, they will be persuaded to believe without anyone's saying a word to them. They will be persuaded by the way their wives live. Your husbands will see the pure lives you live with your respect for God.

But let's be clear: this section of Scripture addresses a husband failing to love God or his wife with the commitment and dedication the Bible expects. This verse DOES NOT speak to abusive men or unfaithful husbands. Remember, the power of God's marriage covenant is in intimacy, fidelity and unity. When a husband breaks those marital bonds, with violence, abuse, fear, threats, intimidation or unfaithfulness ? the Bible provides a wife with escape avenues. Nothing in the Bible tells us that God expects a woman to take abuse in the name of submission. That shows a total lack of understanding of Biblical submission.

taken from: http://www.richmondccc.org/yourti16856.html
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« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2004, 10:05:24 PM »

Isn't it just out of respect and honor and in return the husband respects and honors you???
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2004, 03:40:36 PM »

These are truly some of the best comments on this subject that I have ever read.  It is so difficult to come to grips with submission of any type if you don't know Christ but if you do then you dig deeper to understand the fullness of "submission" to God and to others because you want to please God and be obedient.  Trying to explain this to someone in an abusive relationship is very difficult and Shylynne I agree with your comments on that subject as well.  God wants us to submit out of love...not out of fear.  I believe He can give us the strength and wisdom to see the difference if we stay in His will.  As well as the courage to act on our decisions when we decide we are being abused.
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2004, 08:02:22 PM »

Well, first I want to say that I was so much like you in my thinking when I got married.  Dh and I argued over it a lot.
When I finally became a TRUE Christian, I finally got it (not saying that you ARENT..but I wasnt)
My hubby doesnt make me bow before him, I dont obey his every command.  But when something comes up, he tells me about it and we discuss it together.  He has solutions that i dont agree with and I have some he doesnt agree with.  In the end though, if we cant agree on it...I go with HIS decision..and it helps to pray about it also.  HE is the head of our household and I dont mind doing it because its how God wants it to be!
Is he always right? Nope.  But neither am I.
In fact, I find myself doing a lot of the things that I consider to be the mans job...like bedtime prayers with our 3 children.
We are their help mates and we are here to encourage them, love them, pray for them and just be here for them.
They have their part to fulfill also reguarding their wives.
When intimatacy is the last thing I want, when he does want it...I dont always submit.  Maybe I should, but thats a hard issue for me.  As a husband, he understands and tries not to ask too much of me.
We arent slaves for men, God never intended for us to be...but I do agree that we are to be submissive to our husbands as best we can.
Sorry, Im sure this hasnt helped much.
Dawn
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2004, 07:17:54 AM »

This is truly a difficult issue to understand; even to embrace it. It's not a matter of a woman submitting to a man.... it's is a matter of first, submission to God; then, husbands and wives submit to each other.

When God comes first in your life, above all (even above your husband & children); when you truly, fully put His desire & will first, submitting to your husband becomes easier, partly because once you've submitted your entire self to God everything is His; He becomes more, we become less - in other words we "die to ourself". It's not that we aren't important, but that God is more (most) important in our lives.

It's a 2-way street....the wife isn't meant to be a doormat, or a second class citizen; she's meant to be a "help-meet" for the husband. The husband is to love, honour, protect and provide for the wife. They are meant to be a team. God created Adam first; and Eve was formed out of the bones of that man, and filled with the same breath of life that God breathed into Adam.

In Ephesians 5:25 the husbands are told to love their wives, even as Christ loved the church & gave himself for it. That's a pretty tall order.... men are to love their women the way Christ loved his church..... giving their all for their wives.


Quote
Eph 5:17  Therefore do not be unwise, but understand
 what the will of the Lord is.
Eph 5:21  submitting yourselves to one another in the fear of God.
Eph 5:22  Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23  For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
Eph 5:24  Therefore as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.
Eph 5:25  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,
Col 3:17  And everything, whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by Him.
Col 3:18  Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as is becoming in the Lord.
Col 3:19  Husbands, love your wives, and do not be bitter against them.
Col 3:20  Children, obey your parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord.

1Pe 3:1  Likewise, wives, be in subjection to your own husbands, so that if any do not obey the Word, they may also be won without the Word by the conduct of the wives,
1Pe 3:2  having witnessed your chaste behavior in the fear of God.

I don't know how much help this is....my feeling is that it is really one of those things you have to live through to really understand because understanding something "with our heads" is a lot different than understanding something "with our hearts".


Gracey


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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2004, 11:13:16 AM »

I  don't  believe in  dominance  or  submission in a loving relationship. I believe in partnership and cooperation.  That's the way it works.   Equality for all.  It's the  American way.
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2004, 01:21:59 PM »

Quote
It's the  American way.

I prefer to live God's way.

 Smiley



Gracey
(it isn't about dominance at all)
« Last Edit: May 31, 2004, 01:23:50 PM by Gracey » Logged

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sincereheart
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2004, 07:13:04 AM »

Quote
It's the  American way.

I prefer to live God's way.

 Smiley



Gracey
(it isn't about dominance at all)

AMEN!  Cheesy

Just a thought.... If more people would led the Lord lead them to their spouse, less would have trouble with the whole marriage thing. People insist on doing things their way then say they can't follow Scripture.  Lips Sealed
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« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2004, 08:56:06 PM »

I  don't  believe in  dominance  or  submission in a loving relationship. I believe in partnership and cooperation.  That's the way it works.   Equality for all.  It's the  American way.
this is not the rah rah american way forum , nor the liberal commy natzi ways of boston.

   oh, with love and kisses butcha from boston Grin
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