Hi Reba,
We have much ground to cover here.
Rom 1:8
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
KJV
Rom 10:18
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
While I accept these verses as they are, its hard to conceive he is refering to the entire earth here. Somehow I don't think people in the America's had received the gospel here. Surely he means the known world or Roman empire. Either way, I will give you these.
Tim--->2. When and who was the Antichrist?
1 John 2:18
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
KJV
There have been many antichrists, but THE final one has not come yet. He tells them they have heard that THE antichrist (singular) will come. If he came in 70 AD who was he? I believe Titus was the one who sent troops to destroy the temple. But I don't see how he connects to the antichrist in Revelation, as he is suppose to be thrown into the lake of fire.
3. When and what was the mark of the beast that the antichrist forced every man, rich, poor, and slave, to receive in order to sell and buy?
What scripture says an antichrist will force every man…..? There are only 4 verses, in all of scripture, that speak of antichrist, and not one of them elude to a single person as in "THE antichrist." The littel books of John are the only place the scripture uses the word antichrist.
First to show who this man is.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are
ten kings that shall arise:
and another shall rise after them; and
he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And
he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Clearly one individual. Revelation sheds more light on the same man who is referred to as the beast.
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations
And here he forces all great and small, rich and poor, free and slave to receive his mark.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
And here...
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and
that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Rev 19:20 says the Beast and the false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire when christ returns.
Note: the beast is not Satan, as Satan is put in the bottemless pit for 1000 years. In Rev 19:20 the antichrist is thrown into the lake of fire along with the false prophet.
Tim---> 4. Who was the 200 million man army? (if there were even that many people on the earth in 70 AD, we would have to include almost everyone as being part of this army. Which begs another question.)
5. When did they kill a thrid part of mankind? (and why would an army kill a third of itself?)
6. When did Euphrates river dry up to prepare the way for the 200 million man army?
7. Where are we now in your timeline, although more than a thousand years (of peace?) have passed?
quote:Reba
Do we pick and choose which scripture to take literally and when they are symbolic ?
I assume you refering to my post about the locusts. I think I was fairly clear when I said the locusts
could be something else because of the language John uses describing them. Sounds like, looks like, something like. As I have always said, when the text makes plain sense, seek no other sense. So yes, a litteral reading is required, unless the text indicates otherwise.
Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand(200,000,000):
and I heard the number of them.
He says this is the number of the army he heard! Litterally.
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
The water of great river of Euphrates dried up...preparing the way for the Kings of the east. This is what John says he saw! Litterally.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him
a thousand years, Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the
thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
A Thousand years is mentioned 6 times in Rev 20 after this period of tribulation. I am just currious how Tibby ties this into his timeline of 70 AD.
8. When was Jerusalem forever removed from being the burdensome stone?
Luke 13:34-35
34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV
Jesus has not returned to the house of Israel yet..still waiting for the day when they all say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord as some did when Jesus first entered Jerusalem...they still await for messiah. In 1948 Israel declared itself a nation again. Today they are very much the burdensome stone of middle east peace for every nation in the world that has interest there. I suspect Israel will accept either the false prophet or the beast in Revelation as messiah.
9. Why has it now returned to that status in our times?
I do not understand what status you are speaking of…. Jerusalem is not the capitol of Israel nor is it the spiritual center of anything.
Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel?
I assume you must mean something else here?...but in a litteral sense Jerusalem is the capital of Israel (I'm not sure I understand). It may not be the spiritual center of anything as far as the church goes, but God speaks of Israel being a burdensome stone. God has turned to the gentiles who now accept him, but Israel is still Gods chosen people.
Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Watch an hour of CNN and tell me the peace of Israel is not on the top of every nations priority for the region. She is the key to the region, and is deffinately a cup of trembling to everyone in the middle east. If this ended in 70 AD why is Israel the highlight of middle east peace issues today? God is not finished with his chosen people, and the time of Jacobs trouble (or tribulation period) will deal directly with the Israel and her disbelief.
For the sake of room (too many quotes)....the other scripture you quote about the palm branches and so forth, saying blessed is he that comes in the name of the lord-- In Matthew this all happened as Jesus entered Jerusalem, well before Jesus foretold those in the temple, he would not return to their house until he heard this from them. As far as I know, this did not happen in or after 70 AD again. Israel is still blind to Christ their messiah.
OK, a few scriptrues just to provoke some thought (not debate).
Good stuff Reba. I love talking about endtimes. I don't like it when it turns into fighting. That doesn't help anyone, and it certainly does not bring out the best in us. I do like to hear how others see things playing out. I must admit, I have not heard too many folks discuss the 70 AD theory before. While I don't personally accept it, I am currious as to why some come to that conclusion. If nothing else, it forces us to search the scriptures, and thats always a good thing.
Grace and Peace!
Author