Baptism

[RKJ]

Dedication of infants at the alter is quite different from baptism at an age where he/she decides and professes.

Jesus was dedicated to God when He was a baby.  If He wanted to he would have stopped at that.  He still did come forward to get baptised in front of many (in spite of not requiring it - He was spotless).

He has set us an example - external and internal actions, to follow.  Why pick some and leave some?
It is clear that baptism is an external action of what has happened internally.  Why hide candle light with a bushel of  (ir)rational justifications?

Baptism is an act of obedience that we have accepted Jesus.  And as rightly pointed out we have the will to reject Jesus.  When we do not accept Jesus, we have infact rejected Him.  When we accept Jesus we would follow Him with our all, casting aside doubts, reluctance and of course arguments.

[airIam2worship]

I don't look at it as God forcing salvation on anyone.  I look at it as Him loving us and saving us on His own accord, while we were still dead in trespasses, without anything of our doing, without any merit and worthiness in us.  

I believe what the verses say.  

Who's laughing at God or the things of God?  The only person who's mentioned anything humorous in this post is Rookieupgrade1.  

There is a proper distinction between Law and Gospel.  Your fire and brimstone proclamations aren't helping anyone in this thread.  

Ruth where in this thread are you reffering to as fire and brimstone?

[Soldier4Christ]

Ruth where in this thread are you reffering to as fire and brimstone?

blackeyedpeas last post

I see nothing wrong his post myself. It says this is the way it is just as Jesus did so many times in His teachings. God is not in heaven saying let's make a deal ......

It is a plain fact. We either accept Him or we rejct Him, if we reject Him then it is fire and brimstone that we will face.

[Rookieupgrade1]

Just to point out the intention of my "humorous" post.

We celibrate baptism for what it is. The external proclomation of the inward rebirth.

I didn't intend to offend anyone.

that being said,

God changed my life because I invited him in. I realize that I can not control my life cause I keep messing it up. I need God to help me so I syop messing up His plan for my life.

His plan not mine. I just mess it all up. By standing aside and letting him call the shots.....my wife an I reconciled our marriage (thanks and praise to God) and she has come to her own relationship with Christ. I  couldn't do it. The spirit did it through me. without my help. I was the passive conduit of the power of the spirit.

We were baptised by immersion together.

Happiest day of my life.



Our church practices infant dedication, and the baptism of believers. Thats what the bible teaches, thats what what we do.

[Shammu]

I don't look at it as God forcing salvation on anyone.  I look at it as Him loving us and saving us on His own accord, while we were still dead in trespasses, without anything of our doing, without any merit and worthiness in us. 

Jesus doesn't force us to accept Him, thats free will, our choice.
 

There is a proper distinction between Law and Gospel.  Your fire and brimstone proclamations aren't helping anyone in this thread. 

I see nothing wrong, with Blackeyedpeas post. Jesus worked this way in alot of His teachings. Jesus fulfilled the law, of Moses. We now live in the "Age Of Grace."

[airIam2worship]

blackeyedpeas last post

I see nothing wrong his post myself. It says this is the way it is just as Jesus did so many times in His teachings. God is not in heaven saying let's make a deal ......

It is a plain fact. We either accept Him or we rejct Him, if we reject Him then it is fire and brimstone that we will face.

BEPs post was in line with what the Word of God has to say. I don't see anything wrong with it either. It's too bad Ruth misinterpreted it and thinks that we are all preaching doom.

[nicole rork]

What about the "hypothetical person" on an island who has never heard about Jesus or has no idea about the Bible, etc...And he's a full grown male.  How can he accept this?

Ah, the "man on the island."

Every living being is consciously aware that there is a higher power - "The heavens declare God’s glory, the skies proclaim the work of His hands” (Psalm 19:1).  This is pretty much the same about people who are mentally handicapped.  Whether they know the story (Jesus coming to earth, etc) or not, they will be judged accordingly to their knowledge.

Luke 12:48 - "To whom much is given much is required."  Mentally handicapped/the man on the island only are only given so much knowledge and I think God will judge them according to their knowledge.

[Shammu]

What about the "hypothetical person" on an island who has never heard about Jesus or has no idea about the Bible, etc...And he's a full grown male.  How can he accept this?

Ruth have you heard of the talking donkey? If not, here is the verses of Scripture................

Numbers 22:28-30  And the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, What have I done to you that you should strike me these three times?  29 And Balaam said to the donkey, Because you have ridiculed and provoked me! I wish there were a sword in my hand, for now I would kill you!  30 And the donkey said to Balaam, Am not I your donkey, upon which you have ridden all your life long until this day? Was I ever accustomed to do so to you? And he said, No.

As you can see, God will get His Word across.

[airIam2worship]

Ruth God will make sure that all will hear the Gospel. His own Word tells us:

Luk 19:40  And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

If God had to use a raven to feed Elijah, a donkey talk, the Red Sea part, an angel appear to many people in the Bible, then He can also make sure that any and every person will hear His Word.

[Soldier4Christ]

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

[nicole rork]

Proof of God's existence/grace doesn't always have to literally be physically visible (donkey, raven, etc).  Isn't that what faith is?  Faith like a child, it's something greater than them and they accept it even though it's not something they can clearly see or touch or even understand.

[Soldier4Christ]

Proof of God's existence/grace doesn't always have to literally be physically visible (donkey, raven, etc).  Isn't that what faith is?  Faith like a child, it's something greater than them and they accept it even though it's not something they can clearly see or touch or even understand.

While that is very true it is not the point that was being made. The point is that in some form shape or way God gets His message across to all people. It is a matter of whether they want to accept or reject it.

[Ruth]

God changed my life because I invited him in. I realize that I can not control my life cause I keep messing it up. I need God to help me so I syop messing up His plan for my life.

How is inviting Him in NOT a work?  That does not make any sense.  Look at the use of "I" in that statement.  It screams works righteousness. 

What do you make of these verses:

Romans 9:15-16 - "For he says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.'  So then it depends not on human will or [or inviting or accepting] or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."

By the way, predestination and foreknowledge are not the same thing.  Fore-knowing something is just knowing it beforehand.  Predestining or choosing something is an action.  Therefore:

Ephesians 1:3-5 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.  In love he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will..."

In the use of "predestined," God is clearly taking action by choosing us for adoption through Jesus Christ.  He's adopting us, we're not coming to Him.  Just like the little children were received by Jesus.  They did not come on their own accord, but yet Jesus received them.  And we are told to have faith like theirs. 

Nobody has responded to my "faith like a child" model yet.  This is the kind of faith Jesus tells us to have.  But you say children are not capable of having faith, because they cannot choose it.  How does this work out?

[nChrist]

I don't look at it as God forcing salvation on anyone.  I look at it as Him loving us and saving us on His own accord, while we were still dead in trespasses, without anything of our doing, without any merit and worthiness in us. 

I believe what the verses say. 

Who's laughing at God or the things of God?  The only person who's mentioned anything humorous in this post is Rookieupgrade1. 

There is a proper distinction between Law and Gospel.  Your fire and brimstone proclamations aren't helping anyone in this thread. 

Ruth or "So Says I",

AND whoever else has joined you. I really don't know what kind of game you are trying to play. At first, I thought that you just might have been terribly confused about the Gospel of the Grace of God. This is nothing to play games with on a Christian forum.

JESUS CHRIST died on the Cross for ALL of humanity, not just some. Not everyone will accept this most precious Gift from God, and they will die in their sins. Here's some more fire and brimstone for you: 

1 - JESUS CHRIST will not reject a single person wanting to accept HIM as Lord and Saviour.

2 - Those who spend eternity in the fires of hell will do so because they rejected JESUS - not because JESUS rejected them.

The mockery I talked about regarded you and whatever game you are trying to play. Salvation is not a topic for games, and it's certainly not a topic for troll games with Christians.

I give thanks that nobody will take seriously what you have proposed as Bible doctrine. If what you said was true, there would be no need of the Holy Bible and no need of JESUS dying on the cross. Everything would be handled automatically with mindless robots who wouldn't even need a preacher, much less a Holy Bible. Faith wouldn't come with hearing, rather those who were predestined would be born with it.

I'll say this once and hope you take the hint. The GOSPEL and SALVATION are nothing to play games with on a Christian forum. You chose the wrong topic for fun and games. Take your games elsewhere.

Moderator

[nChrist]

Hello Rookieupgrade1,

Brother, I'm not aware of you offending anyone. You simply posted in the middle of a game that someone else was playing.

All Christians know of beautiful things that GOD has done in their lives. It definitely is a matter of joy, thanks, and praise to know that you belong to JESUS. Christians should be the happiest people on earth. Even during our hardest times, our LORD and Saviour will never leave or forsake us.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 1:17 NASB  For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."