Most Haunted

[airIam2worship]

Amen I agree. That almost sounds like *excuse the sarcasam* Bill Clinton's excuse "I didn't inhale". See sometimes when  people knowingly do wrong things they try to find a good excuse for doing it .... like Saul did when he went to the witch at Endor he knew it was wrong, but he tried to justify it. that is the human way. Someone once said that people aren't born with an instruction manual. Not true they may not know how to read it when they are born, but the parents should have been reading it before hand and refer to it everyday until the child could refer to it himself, and carry on generation after generation. That is why we should write God's Word on the tablets of our hearts that way we will always be prepared to face the enemy and not fall into his lies. It is natural for man to make excuses. Adam blamed Eve, and almost even blamed God Himself because God gave him the woman, Eve blamed the snake, and if you read your Bible carefully it doesn't say the snake blamed anyone, he was outright rebelious and proud of it, believing he had every right to do what he wanted. We really have to make sure we stay closer to God than walk in the middle, if we get too close to the middle that usually means that we are only half way to God. I hope I'm making sense y'all ... 

[bronzesnake]

I still think there are better ways to familiarize ourselves with the tools of the enemy than exposing ourselves directly to this kind of thing, but I'll leave it at that.

Could anyone list some of the ways we can prepare ourselves to effectively understand and battle this kind of evil?
I am not being facetious here my friends, I am always looking for ways to be more effective for Jesus.
The Bible is the very best and obvious place to begin.
My question is - is it safer to read about this stuff than it is to watch a program?
Surely if you are correct, and I have welcomed satan into my home through my TV, then he is able to set upon us through a book also.

satan doesn't need a TV or a book to get at us. satan attacks us every second of our lives, and there is only one defence, and that is to be a born again Christian, which I am. So, I am not at risk from satan launching at me through my TV, or my books.

Take a good look at what's going on today my friends.

So many people are involved with mediums, and psychics - so many people believe they can contact the dead, or have been reincarnated.
I do not fear satan coming through my TV. I have Jesus Christ within me. satan and his friends tremble at the very mention of His Holy name.
We don't need to fear these things my brothers and sisters.

Yes, they are not appropriate for children. However, in this age, you can be assured that our kids will be around this kind of thing more and more.
As we fight in our courts to have God removed from all public view, there is a hole left behind which is replaced by all satan's tools of deceit.
We seem to have replaced God with satan - do you know that there are witches in our military? Yes, it's true! and it's all legal and protected by our laws!

This kind of thing is going to be more and more mainstream as we ignore God and welcome the world.

So again, I must appeal to my friends here. Do not fear learning from the TV. Do not fear learning satan's tricks through books or CD's or whatever medium you choose to use.
The important thing is that we know our enemy. If we run from satan or ignore satan, he will have the upperhand.

With all due respect Pastor Roger, my brother. If we allow ourselves to neglect a source of learning because we fear it, then we do indeed run away from it.
I say this will all respect and love for you my friend, please do not take me the wrong way. You know I love and respect you very much Roger, and I would not do anything to purposefully insult or upset you in any way.

Look at it this way.
If you were the commander of an army, and you heard about a hidden cash of information and secret plans of the enemy, wouldn't you at least try to retrieve it?

If any of my children or grandchildren came home and said for example; "I was at my friends house and my friend, her mom and I guided a spirit from her basement into the light through the power of the higher levels" would you understand what just happened?
What if your child's friend's mom was a spiritual medium? What is that as opposed to a medium? or a psychic?Do we really have spirit guides? Are angles spirit guides? What is psychic energy? what is kinetic psychic energy? What is a grounded spirit as opposed to a residual spirit?

So many people are involved in this foolishness today. It is really heartbreaking, especially when the perpetrators purposefully use charged language which make people believe it's all biblical.
They will use terms such as "the light" "spirits from the higher levels" they converse with "angelic beings" All these terms are designed to make people fell all warm and special. People mistakenly think this is all part of God. People believe they are "spiritual" instead of spirit filled.

I learned an awful lot watching this TV program. We should study these things my brothers.

This is exactly what happened with evolution and creation. The church told us that evolution was evil (and it is) but instead of studying it, and coming to our own conclusions and counter arguments, we were told to run from it! To keep away from it because if we studied it, we would be letting the devil in!!

Now we have creation scientists studying, and we are making fantastic strides. But the price we paid fro our fear was that the evolutionists got a huge jump on us and they took over our schools which in turn indoctrinated our children with evolutionary lies.

This is definitely not for everyone, as the study of abiogenesis is, but some of us MUST keep watching our enemies tricks.

God Bless you all my friends...

John

[Soldier4Christ]

You made perfect sense to me sister and I must say Amen!

[Soldier4Christ]

Could anyone list some of the ways we can prepare ourselves to effectively understand and battle this kind of evil?
I am not being facetious here my friends, I am always looking for ways to be more effective for Jesus.
The Bible is the very best and obvious place to begin.
My question is - is it safer to read about this stuff than it is to watch a program?
Surely if you are correct, and I have welcomed satan into my home through my TV, then he is able to set upon us through a book also.

Not when that book is the Bible, God's very words.

satan doesn't need a TV or a book to get at us. satan attacks us every second of our lives, and there is only one defence, and that is to be a born again Christian, which I am.

Amen brother I must agree that satan and his minions are always trying to attck us in many ways every day.

The important thing is that we know our enemy. If we run from satan or ignore satan, he will have the upperhand.

I say Amen to this statement also.

With all due respect Pastor Roger, my brother. If we allow ourselves to neglect a source of learning because we fear it, then we do indeed run away from it.
I say this will all respect and love for you my friend, please do not take me the wrong way. You know I love and respect you very much Roger, and I would not do anything to purposefully insult or upset you in any way.

Brother we have had differences in opinion before and it was handled in a Christian manner. I see no reason to change that now so I agree with this also and my sentiments are the same.

Look at it this way.
If you were the commander of an army, and you heard about a hidden cash of information and secret plans of the enemy, wouldn't you at least try to retrieve it?

This is exactly what we have in the Bible. God has given us all the secrets of the devil and the tools that we need to resist him.

I learned an awful lot watching this TV program. We should study these things my brothers.

I have and I still say the Bible is our source of learning and resisting the devil.

This is exactly what happened with evolution and creation. The church told us that evolution was evil (and it is) but instead of studying it, and coming to our own conclusions and counter arguments, we were told to run from it! To keep away from it because if we studied it, we would be letting the devil in!!

That depends upon how a person studies it. If we look at science in the manner of how it is taught in the Bible we will not go wrong. Many have been decieved by false science, including Christians, by ignoring what is taught in the Bible or to stretch it what they want it to mean. The Bible tells us to avoid false sciences.

1Ti 6:20  O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Now we have creation scientists studying, and we are making fantastic strides. But the price we paid fro our fear was that the evolutionists got a huge jump on us and they took over our schools which in turn indoctrinated our children with evolutionary lies.

This has been a problem because many Christians are either afraid to teach the word of God or have been prevented from doing so by laws. We also have this problem invading our so-called churches, accepting and teaching various forms of evolution from the pulpit. Again I say turn to the Bible as our reference.


The devil is a very powerful creature and we should fool ourselves into believing else wise. If we purposefully go in search of him we are asking for trouble. Brother we must be careful that we do not send others into situations that they may not be well prepared to face the enemy in.

There are times that God may call on us to go into the devils lair. I remember attending a sermon given by Rev Franklin Graham at a small church in N. Carolina ( small in comparison to what he normally preaches in. ) He told a story of a young girl that got caught up in a group of satanists. The leader of this group was of a dangerous noteriety. He had to go in and get this underage girl to return to her home. The leader of that group recognized Rev Graham for who he was and no I do not mean his name but rather that he was a man of God, not afraid of what he could do to him, and he backed down to him and let him take the girl.


What I am saying here is that if God leads us there, then we need to depend on Him, but we should not tempt Satan to tempt us, for God may very well leave us to our own strength at that point. Satan is not to be taken lightly. Inviting satan or his ways into our home in any manner, for any reason is also tempting God. We are in essence trying Him and His power. And we all know what happens when we tempt God.

Could anyone list some of the ways we can prepare ourselves to effectively understand and battle this kind of evil?

The answers are all in the Bible. We are told to resist the devil and his ways not to invite them into our lives in any way.


Jam 4:7  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jam 4:8  Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jam 4:9  Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jam 4:10  Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Note that it says we are to submit ourselves wholly to God, resist the devil and he will flee from us. How do we do this? By not allowing the things of the devil into our lives, turn our eyes to God and the things of God, draw nigh to God. Fill our lives with Him and His ways. We don't get those things from such a Tv show. We get it from the Bible, from prayer.

Note also in verse 10 it tells us to humble ourselves. We do not do this by saying "I can handle the devil and his ways" without it affecting us in some way even though it may be a small way.

How do we know what is of God and what is of the devil? By reading our Bible and praying that God opens ours to show us the right way to go. We test the spirits. If they are not in accordance to God's word then we know that it is evil.

[airIam2worship]

Could anyone list some of the ways we can prepare ourselves to effectively understand and battle this kind of evil?

Yes Brother, by putting on the full armor of God

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
 

Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
Eph 6:15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

The Bible is the very best and obvious place to begin.
My question is - is it safer to read about this stuff than it is to watch a program?
Surely if you are correct, and I have welcomed satan into my home through my TV, then he is able to set upon us through a book also.

Brother, the Bible is a Book that can not be compared to any other book on earth. The Author Himself, inspired men to write it by His Holy Spirit, God's Word is powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, it is to be used for teaching and instruction

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

No one can ever compare the Word of God with any other book. God's Word is backed up by His Holy Spirit.
Satan does use books, such as harry potter, horoscope books, dream interpertations, secret incantations, he uses games such as ouija boards, he uses tv programs, anything he can possibly use. He even tried to use the Word of God Himself agains no less than Jesus. No one ever said the devil plays fair and the worst part of all is if he can make us believe that we aren't wrong the we are in control, than he doesn't even have to fight the battle anymore, we have already succumbed to his traps, and all the while geing fooled and decieved into believing that we aren't. The Bible tell us repeatedly over and over again.... be not deceived....be not decieved.... be not deceived. do a search of those words in the new testament and see how many times Jesus Himself warns us.... be not deceived...

With all due respect Brothe John, and with the love Jesus wants us to have towards one another I implore you...don't take this personal, don't push it aside and let it upset you, please bring it before God sincerely seeking Him. He will be your guide.

God bless you Brother

[LittlePilgrim]

AMEN, my brothers!

Bronze,
I can understand your points, just as I understand those of my other brothers in this matter. And I can't quote the Scriptures to you as readily as I know I should be able. All I can give you is what I believe the Spirit has shown my heart through my studies, and share the knowledge that He has given me.

The Bible tells us that the Spirit within us, the Holy Spirit, is greater than the spirit that is within the world, that is, the devil. But I also know from the Scriptures and from the observing of spiritual warfare in my own life that the enemy's spirit is stronger than our own.

THAT is why it is so dangerous to involve yourself in these things, even just watching them for teaching purposes. In allowing your mind to induldge in these things, you are lowering your defenses, even if slightly. Your mind is an important thing to guard, and the enemy is crafty... Subtle. AirIam is right. We are told over and over "Do not be deceived", but the enemy knows exactly what will deceive us.

I am not ashamed to admit I am frightened of these things... Perhaps moreso because of what I have seen in my walk (Some of you might remember what I told you about my 'sister', Robin's struggles some time ago... *shudder*). When you expose yourself to them, you are opening doors, my brother, whether you realize it or not... And frankly, there are some doors I would just as soon bolt shut. There is simply no good, wise reason to allow yourself to become involved even just in the watching of these things...

I know God has worked good from this, but allow me to be blunt. I believe it is IN SPITE of your allowing yourself to induldge in this... Not through it, not because of it.

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen LP!



Resisting the devil on day to day things are difficult enough as it is even for a seasoned Christian. It is even more difficult for a babe in Chirst and moreso for those that are not saved. We must be careful that we do not support such things. By watching these shows we are indeed supporting them and we give the indication to the weak or unsaved that it is alright to watch them. If anything we should be objecting to them being on the air at all.

This is why there is so much evil in the world today. When Bibles were removed from the schools Christians remained complacent and did nothing. Then prayer was removed and again few if any Christians did anything. Then hollywood started bringing such shows on TV and in the theatres and few if any Christians did anything. Then groups such as the ACLU started attacking anything Christian in public and until very recently few if any Christians did anything. Now there are so many such things in this world that it is very hard for those that are standing up for Christ and trying to rid us of these things.

We are told to stand up and resist the devil. One of the best ways is to refuse to have anything to do with this garbage. Object to it being displayed with a conviction that the non-Christians have in displaying it all to us. If we sit back and do nothing about it or even join in and watch it ( no matter the reason) then we are indeed saying it is ok for it to be displayed. We are failing in standing against the wiles of the devil.

[airIam2worship]

Amen PR, LP. Jesus is our best example He told satan "get thee behind me satan"

He didn't say "entertain me for a litlle longer", "I wonder what you'll try next" NO NO.

He told him "Get thee behind me" He also told him "man must live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God", and "Do not tempt the Lord your God"

We need to follow Jesus' example if we want to be like Him, we have to walk in His path and let Him be our leader, teacher, and master.

If satan tried to outsmart our Lord and rebelled against our God, why should we think that we are spiritually or mentally strong enough to withstand him using his own tacticts against him. And that he won't try and keep trying. even with Jesus the Bible states that 'satan left Him for a season', he kept on trying and we should not expect any less. The only weapons we are to use are those given to us by God alone. Eph 6:14-17

[airIam2worship]

Question to all of you reading this. If you are subjecting yourself to evil influences would you be able to bear and display the fruits of the Spirit??

Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Ga 5:23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

If we can learn to trust God, have a healthy relationship whith Him communictae with Him about everything, read His Word. We can be sure that He will supply everything we need to fight the enemy in the day of evil. (the day of evil doesn't mean on the last day or when the world comes to an end the day of evil is whenever the enemy comes against you and tries to separate you from God... that is the day of evil it can happen everyday.

Christians have much to be thankful for we have salvation thru Christ Jesus, we have the armor of God, we have His Holy Spirit, we have open communication with Him when we want and where we want, we have the fruits of the Spirit, we have God's peace, and God further goes to give us a sound mind. So why do we need to look else where for what we have with God.

 2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

[1Tim]

Ephesians 5:11
11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.


Seems you all who love to misapply scripture forget this passage.  How are we to have nothing to do with fruitless deeds unless we know what they are?  How are we to expose them unless we know what they are?  Experiencing, and knowing about, are two different things.  Remember, Paul wrote these words to the Ephesians--the "headquarters", of Diana / Ashteroth / artemis / Isis / Mother Earth / goddess worship / witchcraft, and location of Diana's temple.  Paul wrote that to a people immersed in a society that ours is growing into.  Read Eze. 33.  We are supposed to be watchmen on a wall, but before we can sound an alarm, we must know what that danger looks like.

Whats wrong with this statement: "...Lord, I thank thee that I am not like other men..." (Lk 18:11)

Whats the difference between that and, " ...you should be doing the things that I do in your walk with the Lord."  IMO nothing.  Both recognize a difference, and assume superiority.  The latter also claimes authority to direct the walk of another that God ownes allready. He directs, and who is anyone to assume He did not direct anyone else to find out about the encroaching occult to inform those who remain willfully ignorant?  I am not saying that everyone should study the occult, but only those who are called to.  One of the biggest complaints non-believers have about christians, is their eagerness to reveal their ignorance.  They'll quote scripture to combat something they oppose, withought even knowing why they oppose it.  Einstine said, " Immagination is more important than education"  does anyone recognize the problem with that?  It is a poster in one of the Jr. High Schools I am in regularily.  It is witchcraft / buddhism / yoga / Diana of the Ephesians worship.  Christians are known for saying, "  I'll pray for you", but whats wrong with the sentiment, " our thoughts are with you"?  It isn't nessesarily anti-biblical--or is it?  Actually, it stems from witchcraft, where thoughts are looked at as energy, and the belief that I can direct energy your way because my thoughts are with you is occultic.

The passages you all quoted above are very nice, but John isn't practicing deamonology, he's seeking to understand what all the hubub is about so he can address it appropriately, like someone who knows what they are talking about.

I live in a large mormon populated area, and some of the kids in our church were beginning to question the validity of christianity, because their friends in high school who were mormon were so convinced of Mormonism.  These were kids raised in the church by families who taught them the bible,  but they were still kids.  After these kids talked to me, they no longer had any question about which faith was the true one.  I didn't quote bible to them because they allready knew it.  I told them about Mormonism and quoted Mormon "scripture" to them.  I could do that because I remained willingly ignorant of Mormon doctrine...no, thats not it, because I scolded everyone who tried to tell me what Mormons believed and quoted misapplied scripture at them....no thats not it either.  I could do that because I knew Mormon doctrine.  I knew it well enough that the kids recognized that, and they listened because they respected that I was addressing them with knowledge, not ignorance, with a Bible in one hand, and a Mormon Tri in the other, literally.  People don't want to hear what they should believe.  They want to make up their own minds based on real facts and evidence,  and we need to know what we're talking about well enough so we can give those arguments to them.  In Acts 17, Paul did exactly that.  He spoke to the Aeropagus with understanding of what they believed.

  1 John 4:4
4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
Don't forget this one either

Now, there is nothing wrong with offering guidence, but that need can only be ascertained by asking questions as to someones motives and methods, and are they staying in the word regularily as they procede in this type investigationary study,  but I have not seen anyone ask a single question of that nature.  As Christians we only need fear taking our eyes off Jesus, and anything can do that if we let it.  If we do fear, then we're not really trusting Him, are we.

Wisdom, would have asked the question, "What was it that you learned that aided you in approaching your friend involved in this stuff."

Sorry for the tyrade guys, but I'm sick and tired of Christians makeing assumtions based on ignorance, in order to promote themselves as authorities.  I thought Jesus was the authority and Leader of our ministries?

[Soldier4Christ]

Sorry for the tyrade guys, but I'm sick and tired of Christians makeing assumtions based on ignorance, in order to promote themselves as authorities.  I thought Jesus was the authority and Leader of our ministries?

Amen to this statement and that is the reason that we have the Bible. The Bible is our authority for learning not a TV show about demons.

Let's take another look at the fist verse you quote:

Eph 5:11  And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

fellowship = to communicate with, to participate with  unfruitful works = what is such a movie but the works of the devil

Paul was talking to the church in Ephesians here. He was telling that church to stay away from the things that those other groups were participating in and not to have fellowship with them, to expose them for being against the teachings of God. How? By the teachings that God already given them.


Eph 4:27  Neither give place to the devil.

What this verse is telling us is to not give the devil any opportunity, none, no room.

How do we know what the devils tricks are? Again the Bible is our authority not a movie. We know truth by the Bible.

The passages you all quoted above are very nice, but John isn't practicing deamonology, he's seeking to understand what all the hubub is about so he can address it appropriately, like someone who knows what they are talking about.

No one here accused him of practicing it. I know "what all the hubub is about" without having to watch such a movie.

Seems you all who love to misapply scripture forget this passage. How are we to have nothing to do with fruitless deeds unless we know what they are?

When it is contrary to scripture then we know that it is fruitless deeds. The title of the show itself tells us this.

[bronzesnake]

I do not want to start any arguments here, so I will refrain from responding to this thread anylonger.

I will leave you with this question...

Should pastors study demonology?

God bless you my friends...

John

[1Tim]

Thats exactly what I'm talking about, because of the title of the show, not its content, it is condemned.  Remember, our job is not only to keep ourselves from being polluted by the world, but also to carry the message to others.

How many Christians have you heard make comments like,"...well the Mormons believe in Jesus too..."?  Withought a knowlege of what they actually believe, that statement though true,  could not be exposed as successful deciet, and the one makeing it may not recognize Mormonism as a fruitless deed of darknes to be avoided, nor would they realize their mormon friends needed to know the truth.

My Church is not aware of what a peace pole is, nor what a peace pole ceremony is, yet, though there are two elementary schools in my area that do them each year.  How can the dangers of them be recognized unless it is recognized that it is a witchcraft ceremony.  On the pole, in eight languages are the words, "May peace prevail on earth".  These are sentiments that most "good" people would agree with, and anyone opposing it would be labeled a hate monger, but I've read the words used in a witches book of shadows, and in Buddhism philosophy.  Now how did your opinion of the ceremony change from the beginning of this paragraph, to the end?  Oh, and the pole itself is an 8' Asherah pole, an Egyptian obelisk, the symbol of the male reproductive organ used in goddess worship (Diana of the Ephesians).

Apparently I'm not supposed to know that either, huh?  We're just supposed to look like hate mongers while opposing it?

1 Corinthians 5:9,10
9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.


Paul drew a difference between those of this world and those in the Church practicing the behavior of the world.

[1Tim]

Should pastors study demonology?

Someone should.  If the ones charged with learning won't, God tends to find someone who will. The Bible was written to people deeply involved in the occult, and I think that one of the reasons we have trouble understanding it is because we, as a society, know little or nothing about occult activity.

If the Word is enough to pull someone from a deep involvment in the occult, why wouldnt it be enough to keep someone studying about it out, that allready belongs to Jesus?

If you aren't supposed to, fine, then don't, but that does not guarantee it is wrong for someone else to.

1 Corinthians 12:27-31
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts.



.

[1Tim]

I do not want to start any arguments here, so I will refrain from responding to this thread anylonger.

You ain't starting anything John.  I've noticed this prevailing attitude all over this forum.  More from some than others, but it stinks regardless who its from.