Most Haunted

[airIam2worship]

You ain't starting anything John.  I've noticed this prevailing attitude all over this forum.  More from some than others, but it stinks regardless who its from.

T1, please allow me to say this you joined us in the middle of a conversation without getting all the facts,try to read and get their facts straight see we have never treated Brother John  either without love or disrespect and Brother John knows full we we love him
If you have taken offense than maybe you should find out what is going on from the begining read from post one and then read all the fellowship we've had with Brother John we are not judgeing Brother John in any way and treat him with respect and love as he has always treated us with respect and love.

He is not attacking anyone's character here and neither has anyone attacked his charatcer. He has not disrespected us and no one here has disrespected him

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen sister.

1Tim

I must agree with what airIam2worship just said about this thread and those involved in it. We as Christians will not agree 100% on everything. There is no reason that we cannot discuss this without personal attacks. if you go back through this thread you will see that I did agree with some of Brother Johns ( Bronzesnake) statements. You will also see the following statements the first one being Brother Johns and the second one mine:

With all due respect Pastor Roger, my brother. If we allow ourselves to neglect a source of learning because we fear it, then we do indeed run away from it.
I say this will all respect and love for you my friend, please do not take me the wrong way. You know I love and respect you very much Roger, and I would not do anything to purposefully insult or upset you in any way.

Brother we have had differences in opinion before and it was handled in a Christian manner. I see no reason to change that now so I agree with this also and my sentiments are the same.

As Brother John also said, this is in the debate thread for a reason. There will be disagreements in this subject and it could make for a beautiful Bible study as long as all participants keep it to that in a Christian manner. If you have felt that I have attacked you then I apologize for that was not my intent. I am meerly pointing out my views on this and pointing what I see in the Bible on it.

[Soldier4Christ]

I do not want to start any arguments here, so I will refrain from responding to this thread anylonger.

I will leave you with this question...

Should pastors study demonology?

God bless you my friends...

John

Brother I hope that you also understood that I was not attacking you personally but was rather joining in with what I thought was a peaceful discussion of this subject. I agree with some of what you stated.

To answer your question here. I see nothing wrong with a pastor or other Christian for that matter that is founded well in the Lord to study demonology. I myself have done so. I have also studied the book of Mormon and the Koran. I still say that I do not see watching such a show as Most Haunted as being a portion of that study nor do I think it a good idea for babes in Christ to be subjected to it. We must be careful that we do not allow ourselves to cause others to stumble in their walk with the Lord.

[1Tim]

Case in point:

T1, please allow me to say this you joined us in the middle of a conversation without getting all the facts, try to read and get their facts straight ...If you have taken offense than maybe you should find out what is going on from the beginning read from post one

 

Amen sister.

1Tim

I must agree with what airIam2worship just said about this thread and those involved in it.

Do you know this is true, or is it just an assumtion?

Could anyone list some of the ways we can prepare ourselves to effectively understand and battle this kind of evil?
I am not being facetious here my friends, I am always looking for ways to be more effective for Jesus.
The Bible is the very best and obvious place to begin.
My question is - is it safer to read about this stuff than it is to watch a program?
Surely if you are correct, and I have welcomed satan into my home through my TV, then he is able to set upon us through a book also.
John

Apparently, John got the same "wrong" impression about the responses to his original post as what I did, as illustrated by the request to supply other avenues of response to this real threat.  "Surely if you are correct, and I have welcomed satan into my home through my TV, then he is able to set upon us through a book also."   He had to ask, because the jist of this particular thread was , IMO, "how dare you..., you shouldn't be..., all you need to know is the Bible and nothing else..." and no alternate offered,  and much of it before any understanding of why this was being done.

I'm not taking up Johns case here.  I tend to do just what he did, but not with TV shows.  I don't like reading someone’s opinion about a cult or occult organization, I read their own material.  Yes it is dangerous to read their material, but only the Bible is the living and active Word, occult writings are not.  They are simply "rational " to the natural mind.

I will agree wholeheartedly, that all we need to know is the Bible, but is that all we need to share with others?  Yes...and no.  I'll pick on Mormonism again here for just a bit.  I can tell them what I believe the Bible says, but they believe I am deceived by Satan Because I believe only what the Bible says. (More than that, I am an apostate.)  Their doctrine says just that.  Since I know what they mean when they talk about Jesus, I know it is not the same Jesus the Bible speaks about.  When I point out that they believe the same thing the Catholic Church believes about something, I have their full attention immediately.  When I point out to them that their Article of Faith # 11, is also what witches, Buddhists,  Catholics, and occultists believe, they're listening closely to what I say.  They don't care how well I know the Bible, until I show them the parallels between Mormonism and the occult.  Only then does the possibility that they are the ones that are wrong enter their thinking.

Do I need to know that to be saved?  no.  but then again I don't need to know a trade to support my family, or work to win the respect of outsiders to be saved either.  I do need to earn a living, support my family, and win the respect of outsiders though, to be as effective a tool in the Kingdom as possible.  Knowledge of the occult--not experiential knowledge, (though some have that advantage), makes me more effective, in the calling I am led to.  And that is how John used the TV show.


I for one, would be very interested to know just what about that show he was able to use to approach his friend more effectively, if he was a mind to share it, because someday, I may face the same situation.

It is not the behavior I perceived on this thread that bugs me, but the fact that it is revealed throughout the forum to various posters. 




The glue that cements information to my mind, is dirt.  I need to get my hands dirty to remember things.  We have enough people here that know the Bible well, that I see no reason whatsoever to run off non-Christian posters to this site.  I say, put them in the debate forum and lets have at them   .  Who knows, maybe someone will say something that sticks in their craw for a few years until they deal with it--and wind up submitting to Jesus because of it.  Even if they are not convinced, the arguments that would be presented will benefit the rest of us.   Knowing ahead of time, what occult teaching is prepares the apologist to recognize flaws in a presented argument that the arguer winds up trapped by.  We defend ourselves and those willing to appeal to the Bible for truth, with the Bible, but to those who do not recognize the authority of the Bible, we need to either use their belief system to reveal the fallacies, or establish the authority of the Bible first.  In either case, a debate like that would grow all of us, especially in the field of using the Bible in defense of Christianity, which tends to be a developed skill.  We can develope it here.

I've seen a lot of intolerance on this forum, toward those with belief systems different from the established norm.  I'm  talking about the doctrine of salvation and Jesus, as the Bible defines it, as well as application.  Some here only want to know the Bible so they can support the Christian's faith, and that is a needed skill / gift.  Some are called to go to those who see no reason at all to recognize the Bible as anything more than fairy tales.  Preaching “Bible” to them tends to be useless, until  they are brought to the understanding that where they stand is sinking sand. 

There is only one Truth, and none of us on this earth are in complete ownership of that Truth.  Only Jesus is.  Together we can be more  completely immersed in it, in ever increasing measure.

It is my opinion that  intolerance was shown,  and encouraged, not to a person directly, but the philosophy that person holds true for his calling.  I saw myself included in that intolerant attitude because I too am led to understand opposing philosophies, and prepare to face them based on an understanding of where they stand, as well as an understanding of where I stand.  People who, “ only want to preach Bible…” tend to make my job harder, because I must first gain the trust of an individual, that I’m not going to shove Bible down their throat, until they are willing to hear it.

Proverbs 27:17
17 As iron sharpens iron,
so one man sharpens another. 
Here, we can sharpen our selves and each other, but we need to understand the others position first, before we oppose it.

Psalm 144:1

1 Of David.
Praise be to the LORD my Rock,
who trains my hands for war,
my fingers for battle.
#

[Shammu]

I see no reason whatsoever to run off non-Christian posters to this site.  I say, put them in the debate forum and lets have at them

Brother we have had non-Christians here on the forum before.  The breaking of the rules got to be so bad, that either blackeyedpeas or myself had to be here at all times. By the way, we don't run off non-Christians.  We are volunteers, not paided employees.  This was before Pastor Roger, or airIam2worship became mods.

There is only one Truth, and none of us on this earth are in complete ownership of that Truth.  Only Jesus is.

AMEN

I've seen a lot of intolerance on this forum, toward those with belief systems different from the established norm.

Which is why, we try not to allow the doctrine of man, but only the Doctrine of God.  I have disagreed with others on the forum in the past.  Still others have disagreed with me.  I don't have a problem with disagreements for the simple reason, man is flawed.  You bring salvation from a Bible view point, I will agree with you.  You bring salvation from mans doctrine, chances are I'll disagree. Mans doctrine is flawed so bad, that some mainstream religions, are to the point of being labled an occult.

Edited to add;  By the way, non-Christians are welcome to the forum. As long as they follow the forum rules.  We have had several come here asking geniune questions.

[nChrist]

You ain't starting anything John.  I've noticed this prevailing attitude all over this forum.  More from some than others, but it stinks regardless who its from.

Hello 1Tim,

This is a Christian Family Forum and the intended audience includes children, the saved and the unsaved, babes in Christ, and Christians with varying levels of maturity. One of the goals is to have a place safe enough for Christian parents to turn their children loose here.

We don't make any apologies for providing ZERO pulpits here for the devil. Our broad audience here, including children, makes that a wise choice. Strong and mature Christians can and should study whatever material that is necessary to go and do whatever God has called them to do. For obvious reasons, this strong and mature Christian will NOT make this material available to children, the lost, and the babes in Christ. For the same obvious reasons, we don't make that material available here for children, the lost, and the babes in Christ.

This doesn't stink at all, rather it's simply a matter of common sense. To do otherwise here with such a broad audience would definitely STINK. If the audience was limited to strong, mature Christians, other things might be appropriate. I must add that we already have briefs of what's wrong with many cults. One doesn't need detailed studies about what is wrong with Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. A couple of paragraphs is all that's needed to tell the blunt truth. The rest of the space is spent with answers from the Holy Bible that show why they are a cult.

In short, it would definitely STINK if we provided pulpits here for the devil, knowing that our audience includes children, the lost, and babes in Christ. So, we try to serve our intended audience with the things of the LORD. Absolutely NOTHING STINKS about that.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 1:10-13 NASB  He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

[nChrist]

I've seen a lot of intolerance on this forum, toward those with belief systems different from the established norm.  I'm  talking about the doctrine of salvation and Jesus, as the Bible defines it, as well as application.  Some here only want to know the Bible so they can support the Christian's faith, and that is a needed skill / gift.  Some are called to go to those who see no reason at all to recognize the Bible as anything more than fairy tales.  Preaching “Bible” to them tends to be useless, until  they are brought to the understanding that where they stand is sinking sand.

Hello 1Tim,

YES, we are extremely intolerant of people determined to preach cults and false religions here, and we will continue to be. See my previous post first. As an example, we've had countless people of Islam determined to preach here. That obviously isn't permitted, and it never will be. The same is true for many other false cults and religions who deny the deity of one or more entities of the Holy Trinity. Some of them are absolutely desperate to share the false material they've been brain-washed with, but it won't be done here. We delete their posts, warn them, and eventually ban them if they refuse to stop. There is no irony that most of them refuse to stop, especially the worst ones like Islam.

The unsaved and people from various cults are most welcome here, but cult members are obviously not welcome to preach here. Now we go back to a primary purpose for this forum - a Christian Family Forum to include children, the lost, the babes in Christ, and Christians with varying levels of maturity. We have no interest in being fair with the devil and giving him equal time to snare the children and the lost or to confuse and weaken the babes in Christ. This is also a refuge for Christians to fellowship with each other and build each other up in the things of the LORD.

We also have a huge audience of people who will never become members here. Our page views for the forum average between 8,000 to 10,000 per day. We have no idea what their circumstances are, and we have no idea about whether they are adults, children, lost, saved, babes, etc. BUT, the material on the forum is appropriate for all ages and all conditions. We would not have any confidence in our materials if the devil was allowed a pulpit for every false cult and religion here. We do have confidence that the material here is Godly and is being used by God. God's Word will never return void, and this promise from God is wonderful. We live in a time where the devil bombards people from every direction, but not from Christians Unite. We don't make any apologies for this. Just the opposite, we will keep trying to make Christians Unite a place that distributes Godly material and appropriate for broad audiences, INCLUDING CHILDREN.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 9:9-10 NASB  The LORD also will be a stronghold for the oppressed, A stronghold in times of trouble;  And those who know Your name will put their trust in You, For You, O LORD, have not forsaken those who seek You.

[Warrior4Christ]

My ministry partner and I watch it to see the fools playing with demons and acting like idiots.

Some episodes are pretty sad when you think about the gullible mediums who have no clue they are messing around with beings that want to kill, steal and destroy lives.

Oh well, it makes for good comedy.

Did you ever watch "The Most Scariest Places on Earth"?

Much of the same, except those idiots were being lead by a "spirit guide" medium that actually told them how to "cleanse" the "haunted house", with witchcraft spells.

I thought I was about to fall out on the floor laughing.

Use Satan to cast out Satan.

GOOD JOB!!

Gullible idiots are a hoot!

[LittlePilgrim]

Warrior, wasn't it Jesus who first said "A house divided against itself cannot stand"? As I recall, some of the 'religious leaders' of the day accused Him of casting out demons through the power of the enemy instead of through His power as the Christ.

1Tim,
Firstly, we're not judging this show based on the title. If you look back in the beginning, Bronze shared with us the essential content of the program, and that is what we're judging.

Again, I speak of this as one who has seen and experienced spiritual warfare... While I understand Bronze's intentions, and yours too, Warrior, I still have to contend how dangerous this means of gaining knowledge is.

I'm going to use a common example here. How is a banker taught to recognize money? Is he shown a counterfeit bill alongside a real bill, or is he simply shown the real bill and told, "Here's what the real bill looks like, so that if you are handed a fake, you will know it right away?" I believe the same is generally true for theology.

EDIT: BTW, I don't see why you have such a problem with this place not allowing spokesmen from other religions, 1Tim... There's enough of that crap on the internet to fill the sewer system of the entire US and then some... Here in Michigan, we have a place known as Camp Barakel (Which, translated, means "God Blessed"). It is in the Huron National Forest, and upon entering, one can tell that God has placed a sort of spiritual bubble around the place... It's hard to explain. But I think of Christians Unite the same way... This is a refuge, a place where brothers and sisters in the Lord can come and discuss and learn from one another, and a place where earnest seekers can come to edify themselves and hopefully be brought to faith... And personally, I wish there were more places like it.

[1Tim]

One day, just as I was leaving for work, a couple JW's showed up on my doorstep.  For the first time in a long time, I didn't stop to talk to them, but I did ask them to return another day so we could talk.

That night on my way home, I saw what I believed to be their van, upside down in the middle of the highway.  I never saw them again.

Was that really their van?  Did they survive if it was?  Was I the last chance they had to hear the truth? I don't know.  I don't think I was "unfaithfull" to the call by not talking to them, but could I have done more?

I tend to see every opportunity to talk about Jesus, especially to the decieved, as priceless, to the degree that I seek them out, so I guess I got a bit frustrated watching those opportunities get turned away.  Even the Muslims, because their doctrine is supriseingly similar to Mormonism, and they can be shown the true Jesus with their Koran.  Though the rest of the doctrine is occultic in nature, Jesus is in their book, they just choose to ignore that part.

That said, I agree with the mission statement as BEP presented it, and I agree that it is a good one, if that is how God is leading you to guide this forum.  It also sheds a little more light on why some posts are responded to the way they are.

Carry on...



Oh...andplusalso...

Jesus said, Matthew 12:26
26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?


This does not imply that Satan does not drive out Satan, because after all, his house will not stand, will it.  Satan certainly does drive out Satan, the occult does it all the time.  It's part of the con.  The "white light" witches hate the "black" magik crafters, and vise-versa.  they are divided--for a common goal--to decieve.

[nChrist]

1Tim and All,

This topic started out with a television show and progressed to cults, etc. I had to chuckle just a little bit because of my personal experiences with cults. I'm not chuckling about the accident you were talking about 1Tim. Many in my family are preachers and missionaries, are we do the preaching when someone comes to our house. As a result, most of our addresses are on a don't go list for Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. Now I'm thinking about my dear dad at home with the LORD. He took it one step further - he wouldn't let them go until he was through preaching. As far as I know, not one of us ever made a dent. There's no way to deal with years of brain-washing in a few minutes, but we keep trying. It's almost like "in one ear and out the other" for them. We are the infidels and the lost, not them. Most of the time Islam is the most militant and they think that threats will work to let them do whatever they want to on the forum.  That only works in reverse here. We have had Mormons on the board for fairly long periods of time with very few problems, but Jehovah's Witnesses and Islam are usually gone before anyone knows they are here. We've had just about everything you can think of, including entire covens of witches, 5 or more self-proclaimed Messiahs, satan worshipers, nudists, and the list gets much worse from there.     They are all welcome as long as they obey the forum rules.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 12:1-2 NASB  Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

[Shammu]

Topic locked

at the request of BRNZ.

Moderator