Joel Osteen and the Prosperity Gospel

[Brother Jerry]

Let me just quote something from the Good Book

II Timothy Chapter 4 vs 1 thru 5 (NAS)

I Solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and hte dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.  But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

We can see it here that the people will want the "feel good" preaching.  And we also learn what happens as they continue.  And the consequences of moving away from the doctrine of the Gospel of Jesus.

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

There's a lot of heart-breaking things happening today. We see what appear to be many children walking away from the teaching of strong Christian parents. We see churches abandoning basic Biblical principles, and some churches even becoming abominations to GOD. The remaining moral fiber of our societies is stretched and breaking, and there is more evil on the way around every corner. I'm not a "what's the use" Christian, and I pray that GOD gives me the strength, determination, and guidance to do HIS will until JESUS takes me home.

I know many Christians who feel the same way I do, but I fear that many Christians are depressed, silent, and have already thrown in the towel. We can and should be that Biblical voice of right and wrong, regardless of how badly we are treated and made fun of. We can and should definitely be 1 in 100, 1 in 1,000, 1 in 10,000 who keeps proclaiming JESUS CHRIST, the Cross, forgiveness, and Salvation.

There are already large numbers of Christians who have given their lives in other parts of the world DOING what we can still do here in relative safety. We don't have any excuses, and we shouldn't try to sell ourselves any excuses. If churches quit doing GOD'S Work, we are still here to do GOD'S Work.

I'm thinking right now about writers of the New Testament going to their deaths for their work and TESTIMONY. AND, WHAT A MIGHTY TESTIMONY it was! There WAS a use for their death and TESTIMONY for hosts of people, and their TESTIMONIES are still powerful today. How many of us are willing to face death for JESUS CHRIST? Have you ever asked yourself that question? If not, ASK IT!

Have you ever thought that this age of Grace might be winding down to the end, and we might be seeing Bible Prophecy unfold before our very eyes? If this was true, would you do anything differently tomorrow? Would you have a burden for a lost family member or a friend? Why put off any longer what GOD has been leading you to do in witnessing to others? Does it really matter if this is the end of this age or not? Do you have work to do for GOD that you've been putting off? If so, get busy and do it. That family member or friend could die tomorrow or the next day and your opportunity would be gone forever. Will you be alive next week? Will you be alive tomorrow? Would you like to pray and ask GOD for forgiveness for things that are heavy on your heart? What are you waiting for?

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 NASB  Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord--for we walk by faith, not by sight--we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
_________________________________________

THE DAY OF THE LORD

2 Peter 3:3 NASB  Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,

2 Peter 3:4 NASB  and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."

2 Peter 3:5 NASB  For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,

2 Peter 3:6 NASB  through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.

2 Peter 3:7 NASB  But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:8 NASB  But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

2 Peter 3:9 NASB  The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:10 NASB  But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

2 Peter 3:11 NASB  Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,

2 Peter 3:12 NASB  looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

2 Peter 3:13 NASB  But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

[nChrist]

THE LAST DAYS 2

Joel 3:1 NASB  "For behold, in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,

Joel 3:2 NASB  I will gather all the nations And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgment with them there On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; And they have divided up My land.

Joel 3:3 NASB  "They have also cast lots for My people, Traded a boy for a harlot And sold a girl for wine that they may drink.

Joel 3:4 NASB  "Moreover, what are you to Me, O Tyre, Sidon and all the regions of Philistia? Are you rendering Me a recompense? But if you do recompense Me, swiftly and speedily I will return your recompense on your head.

Joel 3:5 NASB  "Since you have taken My silver and My gold, brought My precious treasures to your temples,

Joel 3:6 NASB  and sold the sons of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks in order to remove them far from their territory,

Joel 3:7 NASB  behold, I am going to arouse them from the place where you have sold them, and return your recompense on your head.

Joel 3:8 NASB  "Also I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the sons of Judah, and they will sell them to the Sabeans, to a distant nation," for the LORD has spoken.

Joel 3:9 NASB  Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare a war; rouse the mighty men! Let all the soldiers draw near, let them come up!

Joel 3:10 NASB  Beat your plowshares into swords And your pruning hooks into spears; Let the weak say, "I am a mighty man."

Joel 3:11 NASB  Hasten and come, all you surrounding nations, And gather yourselves there. Bring down, O LORD, Your mighty ones.

Joel 3:12 NASB  Let the nations be aroused And come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat, For there I will sit to judge All the surrounding nations.

Joel 3:13 NASB  Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, tread, for the wine press is full; The vats overflow, for their wickedness is great.

Joel 3:14 NASB  Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

Joel 3:15 NASB  The sun and moon grow dark And the stars lose their brightness.

Joel 3:16 NASB  The LORD roars from Zion And utters His voice from Jerusalem, And the heavens and the earth tremble. But the LORD is a refuge for His people And a stronghold to the sons of Israel.

Joel 3:17 NASB  Then you will know that I am the LORD your God, Dwelling in Zion, My holy mountain. So Jerusalem will be holy, And strangers will pass through it no more.

Joel 3:18 NASB  And in that day The mountains will drip with sweet wine, And the hills will flow with milk, And all the brooks of Judah will flow with water; And a spring will go out from the house of the LORD To water the valley of gotcha2tim.

Joel 3:19 NASB  Egypt will become a waste, And Edom will become a desolate wilderness, Because of the violence done to the sons of Judah, In whose land they have shed innocent blood.

Joel 3:20 NASB  But Judah will be inhabited forever And Jerusalem for all generations.

Joel 3:21 NASB  And I will avenge their blood which I have not avenged, For the LORD dwells in Zion.

[nChrist]

THE LAST DAYS 3

Zechariah 14:1 NASB  Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you.

Zechariah 14:2 NASB  For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.

Zechariah 14:3 NASB  Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.

Zechariah 14:4 NASB  In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.

Zechariah 14:5 NASB  You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!

Zechariah 14:6 NASB  In that day there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle.

Zechariah 14:7 NASB  For it will be a unique day which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.

Zechariah 14:8 NASB  And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.

Zechariah 14:9 NASB  And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.

Zechariah 14:10 NASB  All the land will be changed into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; but Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site from Benjamin's Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's wine presses.

Zechariah 14:11 NASB  People will live in it, and there will no longer be a curse, for Jerusalem will dwell in security.

Zechariah 14:12 NASB  Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth.

Zechariah 14:13 NASB  It will come about in that day that a great panic from the LORD will fall on them; and they will seize one another's hand, and the hand of one will be lifted against the hand of another.

Zechariah 14:14 NASB  Judah also will fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be gathered, gold and silver and garments in great abundance.

Zechariah 14:15 NASB  So also like this plague will be the plague on the horse, the mule, the camel, the donkey and all the cattle that will be in those camps.

Zechariah 14:16 NASB  Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

Zechariah 14:17 NASB  And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.

Zechariah 14:18 NASB  If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

Zechariah 14:19 NASB  This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

Zechariah 14:20 NASB  In that day there will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, "HOLY TO THE LORD." And the cooking pots in the LORD'S house will be like the bowls before the altar.

Zechariah 14:21 NASB  Every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the LORD of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them. And there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts in that day.

[nChrist]

THE LAST DAYS 4

Isaiah 2:1 NASB  The word which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

Isaiah 2:2 NASB  Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it.

Isaiah 2:3 NASB  And many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Isaiah 2:4 NASB  And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war.

Isaiah 2:5 NASB  Come, house of Jacob, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Isaiah 2:6 NASB  For You have abandoned Your people, the house of Jacob, Because they are filled with influences from the east, And they are soothsayers like the Philistines, And they strike bargains with the children of foreigners.

Isaiah 2:7 NASB  Their land has also been filled with silver and gold And there is no end to their treasures; Their land has also been filled with horses And there is no end to their chariots.

Isaiah 2:8 NASB  Their land has also been filled with idols; They worship the work of their hands, That which their fingers have made.

Isaiah 2:9 NASB  So the common man has been humbled And the man of importance has been abased, But do not forgive them.

Isaiah 2:10 NASB  Enter the rock and hide in the dust From the terror of the LORD and from the splendor of His majesty.

Isaiah 2:11 NASB  The proud look of man will be abased And the loftiness of man will be humbled, And the LORD alone will be exalted in that day.

Isaiah 2:12 NASB  For the LORD of hosts will have a day of reckoning Against everyone who is proud and lofty And against everyone who is lifted up, That he may be abased.

Isaiah 2:13 NASB  And it will be against all the cedars of Lebanon that are lofty and lifted up, Against all the oaks of Bashan,

Isaiah 2:14 NASB  Against all the lofty mountains, Against all the hills that are lifted up,

Isaiah 2:15 NASB  Against every high tower, Against every fortified wall,

Isaiah 2:16 NASB  Against all the ships of Tarshish And against all the beautiful craft.

Isaiah 2:17 NASB  The pride of man will be humbled And the loftiness of men will be abased; And the LORD alone will be exalted in that day,

Isaiah 2:18 NASB  But the idols will completely vanish.

Isaiah 2:19 NASB  Men will go into caves of the rocks And into holes of the ground Before the terror of the LORD And the splendor of His majesty, When He arises to make the earth tremble.

Isaiah 2:20 NASB  In that day men will cast away to the moles and the bats Their idols of silver and their idols of gold, Which they made for themselves to worship,

Isaiah 2:21 NASB  In order to go into the caverns of the rocks and the clefts of the cliffs Before the terror of the LORD and the splendor of His majesty, When He arises to make the earth tremble.

Isaiah 2:22 NASB  Stop regarding man, whose breath of life is in his nostrils; For why should he be esteemed?

[nChrist]

THE LAST DAYS 5

Isaiah 13:1 NASB  The oracle concerning Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw.

Isaiah 13:2 NASB  Lift up a standard on the bare hill, Raise your voice to them, Wave the hand that they may enter the doors of the nobles.

Isaiah 13:3 NASB  I have commanded My consecrated ones, I have even called My mighty warriors, My proudly exulting ones, To execute My anger.

Isaiah 13:4 NASB  A sound of tumult on the mountains, Like that of many people! A sound of the uproar of kingdoms, Of nations gathered together! The LORD of hosts is mustering the army for battle.

Isaiah 13:5 NASB  They are coming from a far country, From the farthest horizons, The LORD and His instruments of indignation, To destroy the whole land.

Isaiah 13:6 NASB  Wail, for the day of the LORD is near! It will come as destruction from the Almighty.

Isaiah 13:7 NASB  Therefore all hands will fall limp, And every man's heart will melt.

Isaiah 13:8 NASB  They will be terrified, Pains and anguish will take hold of them; They will writhe like a woman in labor, They will look at one another in astonishment, Their faces aflame.

Isaiah 13:9 NASB  Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it.

Isaiah 13:10 NASB  For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light.

Isaiah 13:11 NASB  Thus I will punish the world for its evil And the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud And abase the haughtiness of the ruthless.

Isaiah 13:12 NASB  I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold And mankind than the gold of Ophir.

Isaiah 13:13 NASB  Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, And the earth will be shaken from its place At the fury of the LORD of hosts In the day of His burning anger.

Isaiah 13:14 NASB  And it will be that like a hunted gazelle, Or like sheep with none to gather them, They will each turn to his own people, And each one flee to his own land.

Isaiah 13:15 NASB  Anyone who is found will be thrust through, And anyone who is captured will fall by the sword.

Isaiah 13:16 NASB  Their little ones also will be dashed to pieces Before their eyes; Their houses will be plundered And their wives ravished.

Isaiah 13:17 NASB  Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them, Who will not value silver or take pleasure in gold.

Isaiah 13:18 NASB  And their bows will mow down the young men, They will not even have compassion on the fruit of the womb, Nor will their eye pity children.

Isaiah 13:19 NASB  And Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Chaldeans' pride, Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

Isaiah 13:20 NASB  It will never be inhabited or lived in from generation to generation; Nor will the Arab pitch his tent there, Nor will shepherds make their flocks lie down there.

Isaiah 13:21 NASB  But desert creatures will lie down there, And their houses will be full of owls; Ostriches also will live there, and shaggy goats will frolic there.

Isaiah 13:22 NASB  Hyenas will howl in their fortified towers And jackals in their luxurious palaces. Her fateful time also will soon come And her days will not be prolonged.

[john909]

There is NO WAY Joel's ministry is even remotely on target.

Jesus told people to take up their cross and follow Him, not search out earthly riches or teach that God espouses such nonsense.

In my opinion, any pastor or elder that calls themselves a Christian has no business wearing thousand-dollar suits, expensive watches, and living in, let alone owning, multiple million-dollar homes. This is the prosperity gospel pure ans simple. It's evil, and anyone that adheres to it is walking down the path to trouble.

Joel teaches that "other gospel" that Saint Paul warned us about. He should be declared anathema and put on every prayer chain on the planet until he wakes up from his dream, sells his riches, gives them to the poor, and takes up the cross of Christ wearing everyday man clothes, gets himself into an orthodox seminary (if he still wants to be a pastor), and focus on spreading the One True Gospel as instituted by Jesus Christ Himself.

Harsh words, yes, but required, and per Saint Paul, perfectly biblical.

[Rev. Belch]

You will NEVER hear a "prosperity preacher" giving his message in Ethiopia, or in Guatemala, or in Ukraine, or in any other impoverished country. Why? Because there is no one there with money with which to line the preacher's pockets.

Yes I've noticed that this seems to be true which is sad.

[Debp]

When Barbara Walters interviewed Joel Osteen, I was shocked to learn he did not have any theological degree or training!!    He inherited his ministry from his father when he was very young.

I know people without degrees can have a deep spiritual knowledge and walk with the Lord....but I do think a pastor with a "mega church" should have a theological degree.  (I know some native pastors do not have degrees due to their circumstances, but most of them try to acquire some theological training.)

[Soldier4Christ]

Personally I don't see that part as being a problem. I have known many individuals with a degree in Theology that still don't have an inkling of an idea about a true spiritual walk with Jesus. Many of the Apostles did not have any sort of education other than that given to them by Jesus. There are many Theologians that through their great list of degrees are leading many people down the wrong path. The most important thing is that they have Christ in their heart and are called by Him to serve in that capacity.

We can tell which ones are and which ones are not by those that follow God's word. We do this through a personal relationship with Jesus, prayer and study of His word. It does not take a theological school to be able to learn His word but a right heart.

Putting money and health in the front of the line ahead of Jesus is not having a right heart.

[nChrist]

Hello DebP,

I see pros and cons on formal degrees and training. Much would depend on the school and the individual professors. I know some folks with degrees in Theology who aren't even saved who simply consider the Bible to be a literary work. Some of them consider religion to be little more than a social program, not a program from GOD.

I've seen examples of the formally trained and the mentorship type of training in my own family. My grandfather was a graduate of the Moody Bible Institute, and he mentored numerous young men, including my father, uncles, and several of my cousins who all entered the ministry. Money was a big issue because most of them just didn't have any money. They came from large farm type families who were rich in Christ but very poor in worldly goods. I'll have to say that the old mentoring type of training worked extremely well for men who really wanted to work hard and learn. It was pretty easy to see those who had the proper desire and an actual calling from GOD to go into the ministry. The mentor and the church of the mentor sponsored the young minister to become Ordained if he was ready and withheld sponsorship if he was not. This usually included the full range of work that a pastor does in a real setting instead of a classroom setting. It was also a matter requiring years of hard work and concentrated learning.

I would repeat that I see pros and cons of formal training in a school. Schools have ruined many young men and misdirected many others. I must also mention that none of the pastors in my family had the desire to run a church like a business and develop what they call a mega-church these days. They served smaller congregations, and most of the people in the congregation were average or poor in terms of money. Money wasn't the issue in the churches they pastored.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Revelation 21:23 NASB  And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.

[Debp]

Pastor Roger and Tom,  Actually, I agree with both of you about degrees and theological training.  (I had to leave Bible college due to my father's death and needing to support my mother, so I have no degree but a close walk with the Lord.)

Since Pastor Osteen's message is so "one-sided" about prosperity is the reason I thought he should have gotten theological training.  We might be called to a certain aspect of ministry, but should be a little more well rounded as to other Bible doctrines.

Oh, just a note:  One of my pastors that was extremely good and had alot of spiritual insight said he got saved while sitting in a classroom studying for his doctorate in theology!!  He said it happened instantly after something the professor said!! 

[nChrist]

Hello DebP,

I hope that I didn't sound overly critical about Bible colleges and Seminaries. My family has examples of nearly all kinds in terms of various kinds of training, some very formal and some less formal but still very difficult. I think that all of the circumstances and factors must be known to determine what kind of training is the best. Available schools and the amount of money required are always major factors. Many outstanding pastors I know would never have made it into the ministry had they waited for the money and opportunity to attend a Bible College or Seminary. On the other side of the coin, I know many missionaries who required specialized and custom training for the countries they went to serve. Without the training and sponsorship, they would never have made it into their chosen mission field.

Regardless of circumstances, I think that a single true statement can be made, "If GOD calls a person into the ministry, GOD will provide a way to properly equip the person for the work HE wants done. Realistically, GOD has work for all of us to do. If we yield to HIS Will, GOD will prepare us for the work in HIS chosen way.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Corinthians 6:17 NASB  But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

[Debp]

Regardless of circumstances, I think that a single true statement can be made, "If GOD calls a person into the ministry, GOD will provide a way to properly equip the person for the work HE wants done. Realistically, GOD has work for all of us to do. If we yield to HIS Will, GOD will prepare us for the work in HIS chosen way.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Corinthians 6:17 NASB  But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

Yes, I believe this, too.  Even though I had to go into secular work, I believe I have a missionary calling as it is extremely  easy for me to reach out to others, and missions was the minor I choose in 74/75, too.  The Lord has brought many people across my path all of these years, and especially people from foreign countries and with different religions.  As you say, the important thing is to be yielded to the Lord and to walk with Him each day.

[sjoara]

I am not trying to judge Joel Osteen in any way, but from what I have seen and heard of him, its my opinion, he's a good motivational speaker. Thats about it.