Joel Osteen and the Prosperity Gospel

[Soldier4Christ]

I have seen many web sites that have devoted page after page to the pointing out of false teachings and those that are doing them yet give very little if any space to the truth of the Gospel. I have also heard the "don't judge" teachings and do not agree with them totally. There is a difference in judging an individual and judging what is being taught or what is being done. Those who wish to continue their lives in sin use this "do not Judge" to silence those that attempt to teach the truth.  We are to judge righteously. If we did not then we would be allowing these teachings to go on without teaching the truth, to permit false teachings to enter into our churches.



Pro 31:9  Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.

Joh 7:24  Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

We do need to judge what is wrong and what is right. We also need to concentrate on preaching what is right. How can people hear the truth if we spend all of our time pointing at false teachers and not letting people hear the truth.

Rom 10:17  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Let us preach the word of God that others may hear and come to know Jesus Christ as their Saviour.

[nChrist]

Amen Pastor Roger!

In fact, Christians are to judge many things every day, but our authority is GOD and HIS WORD - not us. The portion of Scripture below illustrates this. Many have been wrongly and harshly judged for teaching JESUS CHRIST and the CROSS, most certainly including the Apostles. The Apostles' judgment of TRUTH and what should be taught was based on teachings in the very presence of GOD that they knew were right.

Thus, the illustration should proceed to "righteous judgment", that which is already judged as right, wrong, and TRUTH by GOD and HIS Word.
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(Acts 4:19)  But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it is right in the sight of God to hearken unto you rather than unto God, judge ye:

(Barnes)   Whether it be right ... - The apostles abated nothing of their boldness when threatened. They openly appealed to their judges whether their command could be right. And in doing this, they expressed their full conviction of the truth of what they had said, and their deliberate purpose not to regard their command, but still to proclaim to the people the truth that Jesus was the Messiah.

In the sight of God - That is, whether God will judge this to be right. The grand question was how God would regard it. If he disapproved it, it was wrong. It was not merely a question pertaining to their reputation, safety, or life; it was a question of conscience before God. We have here a striking instance of the principle on which Christians act. It is, to lay their safety, reputation, and life out of view, and bring everything to the test whether it will please God. If it will, it is right; if it will not, it is wrong.

To hearken - To “hear” and to “hearken” are often used to denote to “obey,” Joh_5:24; Joh_8:47, etc.

Judge ye - This was an appeal to them directly as judges and as men. And it may be presumed that it was an appeal which they could not resist. The Sanhedrin acknowledged itself to have been appointed by God, and to have no authority which was not derived from his appointment. Of course, God could modify, supersede, or repeal their authority; and the abstract principle that it was better to obey God than man they could not call in question. The only inquiry was whether they had evidence that God had issued any command in the case. Of that the apostles were satisfied, and that the rulers could not deny. It may be remarked that this is one of the first and most bold appeals on record in favor of the right of private judgment and the liberty of conscience. That liberty was supposed in all the Jewish religion. It was admitted that the authority of God in all matters was superior to that of man. And the same spirit manifested itself thus early in the Christian church against all dominion over the conscience, and in favor of the right to follow the dictates of the conscience and the will of God. As a mere historical fact, therefore, it is interesting to contemplate this, and still more interesting in its important bearings on human liberty and human happiness. The doctrine is still more explicitly stated in Act_5:29, “We ought to obey God rather than man.”
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Plainly and simply, the absolute final authority is GOD and GOD'S WORD! A just example of using "righteous judgment" could be calling satan worship evil or any number of other absolutes in GOD'S WORD. It's important to note that the "righteous judgment" has already been done by GOD - not us. This is why many people want to remove many portions of the HOLY BIBLE and make GOD'S WORD more suitable for their sinful purposes.

The point here is that calling "sin" sin is not wrong. On the other side of the coin, calling evil good is wrong. NOW, I would hope that the conversation would go to the ONLY REMEDY - JESUS CHRIST AND THE CROSS. I'm firmly convinced that the greatest POWER Christians have in this day and age is still and will always be JESUS CHRIST and the CROSS. The devil fears the telling of this wonderful TRUTH more than anything else. Brother, you and I both already know that the devil would much rather us spend our time on anything EXCEPT JESUS CHRIST AND THE CROSS. In terms of the devil's rightful fear, JESUS CHRIST AND THE CROSS defeats the devil and sends him running.

Christians should know and practice this most powerful TRUTH at every opportunity. This old and beautiful story - about GOD'S Glory - of JESUS CHRIST and the CROSS is more powerful today than ever. I give thanks that even children can understand this story. In fact, we are all to come to JESUS in childlike faith. This most simple childlike faith in JESUS CHRIST as LORD and SAVIOUR is a wonderful VICTORY IN JESUS and a crushing defeat for the devil. Brothers and Sisters, the only real victories are in JESUS, and we must not withhold the TRUTH of the CROSS from those who are dying in their sins.

Knowledge of sin is still the first schoolmaster that leads the lost in search of JESUS. Faith still comes by hearing, and hearing by the WORD OF GOD. Brothers and Sisters, let us ALL make it a priority in our lives to SHARE the GOOD NEWS of JESUS CHRIST and the CROSS that rescued us from the curse of sin and death.

Love IN Christ,
Tom

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen Brother Tom,

It's important to note that the "righteous judgment" has already been done by GOD - not us.

Exactly, we have no righteousness of our own.

[brohank]

for the time will come when they will not endure SOUND doctrine, but will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears

The following is a quote, made on national tv, of one of Osteen's associate ministers.

"No one should be teaching about the cross. We have made that a Graven Image. That was the means by which Jesus was crucified, but so were many others. We have put crosses all over the place. We have dignified the cross as if that is what God wants. There is no Gospel of salvation. The Gospel is to tell of one who came and will come again. "

Joel's church displays no cross. He doesn't talk about the shed blood of Jesus Christ.  He does not talk about the sinful condition of mankind and their need for a redeemer.  He does talk about setting your mind to "think positively" and to "say it long enough so you can have it."

As to whether or not we (REAL Christians) are supposed to point out false teaching, or name names....

"Now go, write it before them in a tablet, and note it in a book, that it may be for the latter day: that this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the Word of the LORD: and say to the seers, see not; and to the prophets, prophesy not to us of the right things, but instead speak of smooth things, tell us what we want"
Isaiah 30:8-10

"Astonishment and filthiness is committed in the land: The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests take things into their own hands: and my people love to have it so: WHAT WILL YOU DO IN THE END?"
Jeremiah 5:30-31

"I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:" Rev. 2:2

There are about 2 dozen more admonitions in the NT alone which tell us we are to examine ANY teaching, and weigh it against the FULL counsel (word) of God, to reject any teaching that does not match up, and to point out and rebuke, PUBLICLY, those who persist in teaching false doctrine, and to SHUN them.

Finally....

Without the cross, there is NO propitiation.
Without the cross, there is NO atonement.
Without the cross, there is NO redemption.
Without the cross, there is NO salvation.
Without the cross, there is NO future.
Without the cross, there is NO HOPE!

I join with the Apostle Paul in saying

" But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Gal 1:8-9

The Gospel Paul preached, along with EVERY writer of the Bible, OT and New, is very simple.
Man is in sin.
Man cannot save himself.
God gave Himself to redeem man and save him by shedding His blood and dying on the cross.
The ONLY way to salvation is BY FAITH in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, by appropriating HIS death on the cross as the propitiation for our sin, and believing that He rose from the dead by the power of God.

That's how the cow ate the cabbage, folks...and any other "gospel" is pure hogwash that will send more people to hell than are already going.

[ibTina]

The Gospel Paul preached, along with EVERY writer of the Bible, OT and New, is very simple.
Man is in sin.
Man cannot save himself.
God gave Himself to redeem man and save him by shedding His blood and dying on the cross.
The ONLY way to salvation is BY FAITH in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, by appropriating HIS death on the cross as the propitiation for our sin, and believing that He rose from the dead by the power of God.

That's how the cow ate the cabbage, folks...and any other "gospel" is pure hogwash that will send more people to hell than are already going.

[nChrist]

AMEN BROHANK!

Brother Hank, I've been gone with my children and grandchildren, so I'm late in being able to read your post. I say again AMEN!

I've also had some major computer problems that have slowed me down some.

More and more, I'm convinced that the message the devil hates the worst is JESUS and the CROSS. Nothing else can defeat the devil or rescue the lost who are sliding down into the pits of eternal fire.

ONLY JESUS SAVES! HIS Blood on the CROSS is the only power that is capable of washing my sins away, so I speak of HIS BLOOD in reverence and thanksgiving. This is one message that I never get tired of hearing. It is the core of my HOPE and TRUST in HIM. It's popular to talk about trust in men, but trust in men is worthless. Men are most often NOT a worthy subject for TRUST. As a complete contrast, JESUS CHRIST is 100% worthy for TRUST and FAITH. A Promise made by GOD is a Promise kept. A promise made by a man is always suspect and most of the time NOT fulfilled.

Brothers and Sisters, it's time for all Christian to go back to the basics. NOT one of us has anything of real worth unless it's in JESUS CHRIST. Our homes and riches aren't in this world. GET THIS - Our happiness isn't from being accepted by others - RATHER by belonging to JESUS CHRIST as HIS ETERNAL possession. The world doesn't have anything to offer us for any lasting happiness. Any happiness from the world is temporary and always turns sour in the end. I wish that all of our young people could hear about REAL BELONGING, TRUST, AND RICHES that are not of this world. Many really are trying to sell us fancy cars and big houses as the measure of happiness. This isn't real - it's a lie - and it blows like smoke in the wind. REAL HAPPINESS in this short life is found ONLY IN THE HEART OF A BELIEVER. If the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD lives in that heart, the person is rich beyond human imagination.

Brothers and Sisters, our temporary abode during this short life might be a shambles, but our home is a mansion in Heaven. Gold is highly sought during this life, but it's used to pave the streets at HOME. Many of us will even be hungry or thirsty during our short journey here, but we have plenty of everything at HOME. This short journey involves a trip through a barbarous land, but our GUIDE is with us and HOME isn't very far away.

GOOD NEWS!

1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Romans 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever!

[david]

Joel Osteen is a false prophet by his own testimony on the Larry King show (on CNN).  Read the transripts and find out for yourself.  He said he wasn't sure how Muslims and Jews would be saved.  He also said he doesn't like to preach on sin.  Jesus said He is the only way to the Father and eternal life.  Jesus is the only one who can remove God's wrath from us and unite us with God.  Without preaching on sin (fallen man) and the forgiveness that Jesus gives, there is NO point in preaching.

[Soldier4Christ]

Hi David,

Welcome to Christians Unite.

I have never heard that but it is true that if we remove the foundations then all else falls short of being the true Gospel.

[Maryjane]

Hi...

Prosperity has nothing to do with God's plan for our life for His plan is not earthly but eternal...There was a time when God walked with Adam and Eve in the garden...Adam and Eve had everything until sin came in...It seperated us from God...God's plan for us had nothing to do with money..but had everything to do with sacrifice...the sacrifice of His only son that we can once again be reconciled with God...there is no prosperity large enough to pay the debt..the only way we can become a christian and inherit eternal life...is through Jesus...Jesus..who was not a rich man on this earth...and was not even given the title of rich and prosperous...Jesus told John...the poor have the gospel...Jesus never preached prosperity...Jesus preached repentance..."Before God and Christ Jesus. who is going to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom, I solemnly charge you, proclaim the message, persist in it, whether conveinient or not, rebuke, correct, and encourage with great patience and teaching. For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will accumulate teachers for themselves because they will have an itch to hear something new. They will turn away from hearing the truth and will turn aside to myths. But as for you, keep a clear head about everything. Endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist fulfill your ministry.  2nd Tim. 4:1-4
To be truly prosperous is to know the Lord and to know you have eternal life...To know your sins are forgiven by the only one who can forgive and to be covered by the blood that so richly was shed for us...It is our calling on this earth...not to lust for riches...not to believe that when you come to the Lord all will be fine...for the road is narrow and few will find it for few will trust when the going gets rough...Few will utter the words..."THOUGH YOU SLAY ME..I WILL TRUST YOU...Are you like those christian brothers and sisters who were in jails awaiting their death singing praises to God...They were not rich on this earth..but have been given the greatest wealth for they have life eternal...None have preached earthly wealth, but eternal wealth and that being in the presence of Jesus...
My dear brothers and sisters.. the time is so short and the days will not get better...no amount of money can change anything...There was a time Jesus mentioned wealth and that was to a rich young man who chose wealth over the Lord and went away sad...How many are like that today?...

[Soldier4Christ]

AMEN!

Hi Maryjane,

Welcome to Christians Unite. I look forward to reading more of your post.

[nChrist]

Hello Maryjane,

I must first say AMEN! to your post. Our riches in CHRIST are beyond human imagination and they are for ETERNITY! Sister, I love to think about these riches many times each day. I also love the reality that this world is not my home - a Christian's Citizenship is in Heaven forever.

I sincerely hope that you enjoy Christians Unite. I've already enjoyed two of your posts and I look forward to reading more and having fellowship with you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

 

[Greg F]

Well, I traded books with a new Christian at work, who was brought back to Christ in part by watching Joel Osteen on TV.  I gave him The Purpose Driven Life and he gave me one of Osteen's books.  I haven't gone very far in the book, but so far it is much more standard self help than Christian.

I saw in one of the posts above that Osteen doesn't have a cross in his church, but I don't think that means much.  His website says in its statement of faith:

WE BELIEVE…Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe that salvation is found by placing our faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again.

Whether he preaches this I don't know.

I do think that prosperity gospel, insofar as it promises material things to a believing Christian, is false.  It may be God's will, it may not be, to give us wealth or health but it to a certainty not assured no matter how strong your faith is.  The books of Job and Jeremiah can't be understood as indicating that we Christians, if our faith is strong enough, will be provided wealth or protected from harm in this world and made happy. I've heard that history and ancient church documents indicate that all of the apostles other than John were martyred. They were rich men.  I hope that those that listen to Osteen understand why.

Joy is promised us and provided abundantly to the believer.  Happiness, wealth, and health, dependent on circumstances is not.

Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.  Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. James 1:2-4

[Royo]

I did not read every reply, so do not know if this scripture was quoted or not, but here is how I feel about Osteen, Copeland, Casey Treat, (in my Seattle area), and others....

"For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple." [Romans 16:18].

[Maryjane]

Hi...

I agree...there is so much on the internet in regard to false prophets...but not enough on the gospel...for the Lord told John...the poor have the gospel...If ther be any judging..it will be to those that come into the body with false doctrine...for it is the responsibility of the body to hold onto the truth and many come like wolf in sheep's clothing...I do not think it wise to debate with anyone but to keep our conversatation clean and to live as the Lord has us live in this world..to walk worthy of our calling...I believe if there is any real issue..it is the need for evangelism and discipleship...

have a great evening...

Maryjane

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen, sister. The greatest story ever told is the Gospel, from the creation to the fall of mankind into sin to the resurrection of our living, loving Saviour, to the day that all will be held accountable at the Great White Throne. It is this that must told to the lost and dying in hopes that they will also have eternal life.