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Author Topic: Papal Address Confirming Evolution  (Read 22792 times)
ebia
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« Reply #210 on: September 16, 2003, 06:22:45 AM »

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Plenty of foolishness and excuses full of holes without any biblical backing is all I have seen.
Most of this thread has been "lies" about the Catholic church.  These don't need bibical references to refute, they are simply untrue or misleading.
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« Reply #211 on: September 16, 2003, 06:32:10 AM »

Whatever ebia, you are one of the mopst unscriptural people I have seen that claim to be Christian aside from knox here.  I'm not even going there with the translation bit.  Your excuse fails it has nothing to do with culture.  Last I checked when living in the same area it's pretty much the same when it comes to talkin about the bible.  To use "born from above" is poor at best.

I'd say since the average person can read just fine and personal bibles HAVE been out for a few hundred years, it leaves one with little excuse not to bring it.  Besides why on earth would I just blindly trust the man up front and what he says(of course nowadays we find women up there to uuughggh).  Another problem that doesn't riddle the cathlolics only.  I left a church once because the preaching person was so far off the mark in quoting scripture.

Quoting the Word of God during a sermon is not a light thing and to try and paraphase it and then claim it as what is written is unacceptable.  The times I've been in a cathlolic church I don't even think the preist used a bible he just kind went off on something.
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ebia
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« Reply #212 on: September 16, 2003, 07:34:12 AM »

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Whatever ebia, you are one of the mopst unscriptural people I have seen that claim to be Christian aside from knox here.  I'm not even going there with the translation bit.  Your excuse fails it has nothing to do with culture.  Last I checked when living in the same area it's pretty much the same when it comes to talkin about the bible.  To use "born from above" is poor at best.

Born from above seems to be the best translation from the limited research I've done, so you seem to be in error here, unless you've got some evidence to back up your claim that it isn't a valid translation.

Quote
I'd say since the average person can read just fine and personal bibles HAVE been out for a few hundred years, it leaves one with little excuse not to bring it.
Why would you need to bring one if you can listen?  Or don't you trust the people reading aloud?

Quote
Besides why on earth would I just blindly trust the man up front and what he says(of course nowadays we find women up there to uuughggh).  

If you can't trust the guy at the front to read the bible honestly, you've got bigger problems than the catholic church.

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Another problem that doesn't riddle the cathlolics only.  I left a church once because the preaching person was so far off the mark in quoting scripture.
Sure he wasn't just using a different translation?  Wink

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Quoting the Word of God during a sermon is not a light thing and to try and paraphase it and then claim it as what is written is unacceptable.  

Who exactly is this accusation aimed at?

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The times I've been in a cathlolic church I don't even think the preist used a bible he just kind went off on something.
What you mean is, its not the sort of sermon/homily/exegisis that you're used to.
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« Reply #213 on: September 16, 2003, 07:45:11 AM »

Ebia,

Jason is coming from a very biblical viewpoint in not just taking the speaker at face value.  I believe in the book of Acts it speaks of the believers at Berea, who searched the scriptures daily to see if what Paul was teaching them was correct.  Did they not trust Paul?  No.  They just knew him to be a man and sought God's teaching.  If what Paul said agreed with what God said - then it was good!  I personally take this approach myself, both when I sit in a service, and when I'm teaching.  It's just a matter of priority.  Many are led astray by a good speaker.
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« Reply #214 on: September 16, 2003, 11:37:37 AM »

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Born from above seems to be the best translation from the limited research I've done, so you seem to be in error here, unless you've got some evidence to back up your claim that it isn't a valid translation.
You say that it is the best translation according to your "limited research," and then you ask us for evidence to back up our claim.  Why do you state your "research?"

Quote
Why would you need to bring one if you can listen?  Or don't you trust the people reading aloud?
Once again, proving you don't read Scripture.  I could quote why, but Alinall already did that.
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« Reply #215 on: September 16, 2003, 12:40:52 PM »

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Whatever ebia, you are one of the mopst unscriptural people I have seen that claim to be Christian aside from knox here.  I'm not even going there with the translation bit.  Your excuse fails it has nothing to do with culture.  Last I checked when living in the same area it's pretty much the same when it comes to talkin about the bible.  To use "born from above" is poor at best.

Born from above seems to be the best translation from the limited research I've done, so you seem to be in error here, unless you've got some evidence to back up your claim that it isn't a valid translation.


Ebia,

I think that the big question is do you ever study the Holy Bible for yourself and become acquainted with the teachings of the Holy Bible?

If one had a beginner's understanding of the Holy Bible, they would never promote or defend living in sin out of wedlock, alternative lifestyles, or any number of other things you have suggested. That's why so many users have asked you if you are saved, if you are a Christian, what you believe, etc., etc. It appears that you question most of the basic teachings of the Holy Bible, and the evidence of Jesus in your heart or interest in Jesus is difficult to see. Only God sees and knows your heart, but you appear to be lost. This is not meant to be an insult. If you are lost, you may be in the right place and at the right time to change your life and accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour.  
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ebia
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« Reply #216 on: September 16, 2003, 05:36:45 PM »

Ebia,

Jason is coming from a very biblical viewpoint in not just taking the speaker at face value.  I believe in the book of Acts it speaks of the believers at Berea, who searched the scriptures daily to see if what Paul was teaching them was correct.  Did they not trust Paul?  No.  They just knew him to be a man and sought God's teaching.  If what Paul said agreed with what God said - then it was good!  I personally take this approach myself, both when I sit in a service, and when I'm teaching.  It's just a matter of priority.  Many are led astray by a good speaker.
You don't have to do this within the service, though.  Its unlikely they were doing so in Acts, since each congregation would only have had one or two copies of each book.  I'm not trying to suggest for one moment that you shouldn't check against scripture, just that not everyone is going to in a Catholic service where the homily is maybe 10 mins long and probably only relys on one or two brief passages that may well be quoted near the beginning.

Quote
Quote:
Born from above seems to be the best translation from the limited research I've done, so you seem to be in error here, unless you've got some evidence to back up your claim that it isn't a valid translation.
 
You say that it is the best translation according to your "limited research," and then you ask us for evidence to back up our claim.  Why do you state your "research?"
All I meant was, most modern bibles either use "born from above" or acknowledge that it is a valid translation.  eg. The NIV interlinear has "born from above" in the literal part, but then uses "born again" in the text for some reason.

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« Reply #217 on: September 19, 2003, 02:43:03 AM »

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You don't have to do this within the service, though.  Its unlikely they were doing so in Acts, since each congregation would only have had one or two copies of each book.  I'm not trying to suggest for one moment that you shouldn't check against scripture, just that not everyone is going to in a Catholic service where the homily is maybe 10 mins long and probably only relys on one or two brief passages that may well be quoted near the beginning.

Nope, you sure don't have too!  And in many cases, I wait to search until later, but not all cases.  I have, in fact, done quite a bit of page turning in the service, either to support something said, or to settle for myself if what was said was incorrect.

Here's a point of clarification as well, the Catholic homily of 10 minutes may not be an in depth study, or rather as in depth a message as you will find in a church like mine.  That is, when we gather around the word, it isn't to feel good, or get a tidbit of good news.  Sometimes, many times, our proverbial toes are stepped on.  Many times our view of God is increased as His word is explained to us with deeper investigation - explanations that require us to verify their validity.  The sermons at my church tend to be centered on scripture.  They are not just around the word, or applied via the word, but scripturally exegetical.  It is in these times of in depth study that I am challenged in my own personal study time.  That's not, btw, a cut on Catholics.  I've known many Baptists who can preach for hours from one verse, read one time and never returned to, that have absolutely nothing to do with the verse read!  This deeper approach to sermon giving isn't indicative of just Baptists.  I've seen it in Presbyterian circles, Non-denoms, and other groups as well.
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ebia
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« Reply #218 on: September 19, 2003, 03:05:11 AM »

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Here's a point of clarification as well, the Catholic homily of 10 minutes may not be an in depth study, or rather as in depth a message as you will find in a church like mine.  

Probably not.  The homily in a Catholic service isn't the "focus" of the service in the way it is in many protestant services.  I'm not saying one is better or worse - just different.

Quote
That is, when we gather around the word, it isn't to feel good, or get a tidbit of good news.  Sometimes, many times, our proverbial toes are stepped on.  Many times our view of God is increased as His word is explained to us with deeper investigation - explanations that require us to verify their validity.  

A good sermon in either tradition should be one that gets you thinking.  That might be through an hour and a half's indepth look at something, or it might be a really insightful or challenging 5 mins.  People learn when they are made to think.
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« Reply #219 on: September 19, 2003, 10:29:35 AM »

I couldn't imagine sunday only containing 5-10 of the word.  What all else are people doing.  It is the LORD's day meant to be spent praising Him and learning from His Word.  It's not a touchy feely thing nor a hhhmmm that was interesting.  It should almost always step on your toes because that's what the word of God does.
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« Reply #220 on: September 19, 2003, 06:06:51 PM »

I couldn't imagine sunday only containing 5-10 of the word.  What all else are people doing.  It is the LORD's day meant to be spent praising Him and learning from His Word.

I'm not sure I'm qualified to give a precise outline of an RCC service, but as well as the homily you're going to have hymns, probably 3 readings (one each from OT, Epistles & Gospels), probably a psalm or part of a psalm, Communion, intercesory prayers, other ancient hymns of praise such as the Gloria, and of repentance such as the Agnus Die, the Nicene Creed, etc  (not in that order).


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It's not a touchy feely thing nor a hhhmmm that was interesting.  
Was anyone advocating that?

Quote
It should almost always step on your toes because that's what the word of God does.
It doesn't have to be long to be challenging.
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« Reply #221 on: September 19, 2003, 07:19:32 PM »

Recently the pope made an address confirming the existence of evolution (this can be found at my link if u are not familiar with it). He did not, however, give anything as to the relation of Jesus Christ in this address. Do we need a new pope.

---link deleted---
Where is the link?
How can one address this without knowing what it is about.
Put the link back!
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ebia
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« Reply #222 on: September 19, 2003, 07:22:41 PM »

Recently the pope made an address confirming the existence of evolution (this can be found at my link if u are not familiar with it). He did not, however, give anything as to the relation of Jesus Christ in this address. Do we need a new pope.

---link deleted---
Where is the link?
How can one address this without knowing what it is about.
Put the link back!

If you read a bit further down the 1st page, you'll find that the link was, infact, spurious.
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« Reply #223 on: September 19, 2003, 07:43:41 PM »

Yeah, it was spam, nothing to do with Christianity in any ways. Some people just turned it into the Reformation Part 2. And you thought Catholics and Protestants only fought in Irelend. Grin
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« Reply #224 on: September 19, 2003, 09:38:12 PM »

Recently the pope made an address confirming the existence of evolution (this can be found at my link if u are not familiar with it). He did not, however, give anything as to the relation of Jesus Christ in this address. Do we need a new pope.

---link deleted---
Where is the link?
How can one address this without knowing what it is about.
Put the link back!

If you read a bit further down the 1st page, you'll find that the link was, infact, spurious.
Thanks. I thought maybe it was censorship where censorship doesn't belong.
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