Is Jesus God? - Part One

[Reba]

I have already addressed that. If you would be so kind as to review this thread and read my posts you will find your answer there.

Your address? No thanks, the answers are in the scriptures.

[Reba]

John 1:1-14
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
KJV


2 John 9-11

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.KJV


The only nice or kind thing to say or do is tell you once more Jesus is God.  When and if He opens your ears is up to Him. I will not respond to you again.

[2nd Timothy]

Wanted to share a few things conerning this.

Why do you suppose that John 1:1 refers to Jesus as the word?  Could it be that the WORD, [Jesus] is the personification of what the Father wanted to say to men?

I read a little funny little story in a book I have about a man who had a strange facination with some ants.  He would observe the ants on a daily bases watching them go to and froe, and became quite attached to them.  One day he saw a bulldozer clearing the way for new street, and was coming right towards his cherished friends.  He tried frantically to think of way to save the ants.  He tried to scoop them up in his hands, but they only bit him in anger.   In his mind, he thought, the only way he could warn them of impending danger, was to become an ant himself so that they could understand him on their level.  For this to have worked however, he would of had to retain his human nature in order to clearly assess the problem at hand, and yet be an ant to make it known to the ants.

The word had to take on flesh so that we could understand God on our level, and yet retain his God status in order to clearly assess Holyness and righteousness.  It was man that got man into trouble to begin with..(Adam) so God had to become man in order to undo the trouble we got ourselves into (Romans 5:17-19).

In order to qualify as a Human to undo sins damage, Jesus did not use his divine power while he was on earth.

Phi 2:6  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Jesus depended on the Father throughout his earthly life, who worked through him by the holy spirit who indwelt him.  This is exactly the way God intends for man to live.  Had Jesus used his own supernatural powers, he would have lost his humanity and could not have redeemed men.  All his work was done by faith in his father through the working of the holy spirit.

In order for man to be freed from sin, righteous blood had to be shed.  Since God cannot die, he had to take on human form, and yet retain his righteousness (Godly blood) in order to redeem man to himself.  He was the God Man, or the Word clothed in flesh.

If he was not God, then his shed blood could not satisfy Gods righteousness and judgment for sins punishment for all mankind.  If he was not man, (born into the world under the same conditions we are), then he could not redeem us [man]to himself.  He had to be both in order to mediate between fallen men, and a Holy God.  This was the only way to bridge the gap man created between himself and God.

Jesus spoke of himself as both God and man.

Joh 10:30  I and my Father are one.

One essence, or total equlity with God.  Note that the Jews took up stones at this point.

Speaking of his human nature as referenced in the Gospels...

Joh 14:28  Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Jesus is without a doubt, the most unique person in the universe.   In his humanity he subjected himself to the father as we are to do, but in his deity he was equal with the Father in order to satisfy Gods holiness and righteousness through his shed blood for us.  He had to be both, or it just doesnt work.

Jesus, our God who took on flesh to save us from sin.  Praise his holy name!

Grace and Peace!

[JudgeNot]

Good posts Tim & Reba.  

Mr. Danny Boy is pushing the envelope of "welcome" here at c-unite.

Also - I note that the website he is pushing never mentions Jesus or God - it appears to me to be just a money making scheme he and his wife are pushing - and they are making their money from folks who have none to begin with.

I believe our best recourse is to ignore his posts.

God Bless,
JN

[Paul2]

  2nd Timothy

   Awesome post!!!!!!!! I liked that so much I'll say it again, AWESOME POST!!!!!
     
                                                               

[Paul2]

      Don't you understand? One lie can destroy the Gospel!

     Satan loves it when people read the bible but fall victim of one lie that deceives them from Salvation. If Jesus is not God then we can not be Saved by Him. If Jesus is God and we deny it, we are not Saved by Him.

     The Jehovah's Witnesses believe in a different Jesus than Christians, and their jesus does not save them.

     People throw the name Jesus around, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Cults and "isms" but its not the name alone that saves.

     There are facts that must accompany ones beliefs about Jesus. If your facts about him are wrong, you believe in a "made up", alternative Jesus.

    Some facts about Jesus:
 
    Was Jesus born from a virgin? If you don't believe in the virgin birth you don't believe in the "true" Jesus of the bible.

    Did he perform real miracles? If not you have a different Jesus.

    Was Jesus raised BODILY from the grave and death? if you say spiritually but not bodily, different Jesus.

    Was Jesus God? the Jesus of the Bible always was God, and continues to be God. Jesus was never not God. Nothing created was created without him. God spoke the world into existance by doing what? Speaking, what did God Speak? Words. Who does the Bible say is the Word? Jesus! Therefore put it all together, Who "SPOKE" the world into existance? JESUS! Jesus is and was the "WORD" it was the WORD (Jesus) that spoke the "word" and created everything. That is what John 1 is saying. Jesus spoke the world into existance, His voice, the Word, without who nothing that exists would exist, he was not "CREATED" because He (Jesus) IS CREATOR!!!!!

  John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, "My Lord and my GOD."

   There it is, Bill O'reilly of the "O'reilly Factor" has the "no spin zone", and I have my own no spin zone. Read the verse above and no spinning it, just read it. What does it clearly say?

   Thomas testified for us that after he saw the resurrected Jesus Christ he believed in him and declared Jesus his LORD and his GOD! Thats what the Bible clearly says! People that don't like what it says use "spin" by saying that some manuscript in some language has another meaning and ...yada, yada ,yada... But the bottom line is, it says MY LORD AND MY GOD! The Bible is God's Word, and for almost 2,000 years people that read the Bible believed what it said.

    Now some pinheads( you said whats next, name calling, well O'reilly calls people who spin pinheads) want to re-examined what it says to find an alternative meaning they like better. Well God knew that most people would just read the Bible, as it is! I shouldn't have to study Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and latin and analize every word in each language. You want me to believe that 99.999999 % of people who read the Bible in the last 2,000 years are wrong, and God knew we would read it as written and understand it wrong, but the .0000001 % of people who study ancient manuscripts in foreign languages not available to common every day people throughout history would be the only people who saw the truth? You want me to believe that only a minute fraction of a percent were meant to see the truth and the 99.99999% of the rest of the world would be deceived by the clear "as it is written" text, and you want me to believe God has allowed the rest of us to be deceived, would be saying God lied to us.

    There you have it in truth. Either Jesus is God, or God lied to us by allowing us to read the text as written. If Jesus is not God, the Bible lied to me because it clearly says "my LORD AND MY GOD!"

    When you have to "SPIN" the clear text of the Bible as written to support your theories, its time to change your theories, not the written text of the Bible which is the Word of God!

    You want to know why we defend our faith? Because I'm not willing to sit back and watch someone pervert and "SPIN" the clear text and meaning of the Word of God, which has Salvation hanging in the balance, and allow someone to "STEAL" the Salvation of others to promote their "pet" theory, which requires the Bible as it is written, to be ignored, because you think your a language expert. I don't trust you. Why should I give up the written Word of God called the Bible, and the clear, easy to understand wording it used to teach Jesus was and is God for your babble about a language I know nothing about? What if your a liar? or just a poor scholar? Why would I choose to put my faith in your research when God has given us His written Word, which the Bible itself tells us to test everything against the Word.

     I'm protective of my beliefs and of the Holy Bible as our source of truth. You are just a sinful person who I can not trust and the Bible told me to test everything against the Bible to see if something is true or not. You say the Bible is wrong, but the Bible says anyone who teaches against the Book is wrong!

    You can't deceive me but I'm writing this on behalf of others who are not as positive of the truth of the Bible. If Jesus is not God then God lied to me in the Bible which is my source of truth which God told me to use as a test. God does not lie and would not allow 2,000 years to go by with lies about his son Jesus being God, before some pinhead studing some manuscript, or someone elses interpretation of a manuscript which is probably the case would come along and show us all the "real" truth of what the Bible "meant" to say.

     You call God's word a lie! theres the "no spin" truth of what you teach. Gods word as written is wrong according to you. We should all come to you to find out what God "really" said about his Son Jesus, because God's Word, the Bible is wrong.

    If the Bible as it is written is wrong, God can not judge me by it! God would be hypocritical to judge us by a book containing lies about Jesus being God if He was not God.

    God didn't make a mistake, and God WILL judge by the truth of the Bible and our believing His Word in Truth.
 
    Your in great danger of the lake of fire for you call God's Word a lie, just as Satan did in the Garden. You say you have the truth, just as Satan did in the garden. Satan will be cast into the lake of fire for deceiving man, and so will you if you continue to "spin" God's Word, call God's word a lie and deceive others just as Satan did.

    I'm protective of my brothers and sisters in Christ and you are a false teacher that must spin the truth into a lie to fit your flawed theology.

   I hope those of you who read this will be able to see how God's word must be interpreted falsely to deny Christ is God.
Satan never quoted the Word of God in truth but always lied or left out part of verses he quoted to call God a liar and to deceive those who listened.

    Satans methods: challenge God's word, "did God really say..."
 God's holding out on you..."God knew you'd be like him if you ate from the tree"...God does want you to know the truth...

     Satan doesn't change his tactics and I'm afraid DannyB is being used by Satan, using the same old tactics as in the garden of Eden. The Bibles wrong, come to me for the truth...

    Sorry DannyB but your in the "NO SPIN THE BIBLE ZONE!"
nothing personal but Souls are more important than your feelings. I hope you change your theology and stop deceiving others.
    Final words... When your theology requires you to ignore the Bible as written and forces you to alter the text and meaning STOP! Alter your theology and leave the Bible alone!

  Bill O'reilly has a book out called "WHO'S LOOKING OUT FOR YOU?"          Well Paul2 is looking out for you! Thats who!

                                                            Paul2

[nChrist]

Amen Brother 2nd Timothy!

Amen Brother JudgeNot!

Amen Sister Reba!

Amen Brother Paul2!

This topic really is too precious to be left untended. I pray that everyone will read and study the beautiful portions of Scripture that clearly prove the TRUTH.

We worship and praise only ONE GOD, but HE is known by many names. I give thanks every day that Jesus humbled HIMSELF and took the form of a man to die in my place on the cross. I give thanks every day that the Holy Spirit dwells in my heart. Almighty God is a jealous God and deals harshly with those who worship or kneel before other Gods. However, there will be no harshness dealt to HIS children who praise, worship, and pray to Almighty God and Jesus Christ, nor will there be any harshness for walking IN AND WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT - FOR THEY ARE ALL ONE - ALMIGHTY GOD!

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Reba]

Isa 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
KJV


Some things are not negotiable.... Great post guys  

[DannyB]

If one wanted to know, one could study the history of the doctrine of the Trinity. One would find that this teaching was adopted from other pagan religions about 300 years after the death and resurrection of Christ. One would tend to think that such an important issue would have been adressed directly by Christ Himself. You can twist the translation of the scriptures if you want to but if you want to find out then the answers have been provided.

Could someone please tell me how to unsubscribe from this thread so that I will not get anymore notifications of replies to this topic? I'm trying to kick the dust off my heels but I'm having trouble.

[2nd Timothy]

Hmm, if you were seaching scripture instead of historical pagan religions you might be able to see the truth.

Eph 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Shake all the dust you want.  We have the ultimate dust buster!  The WORD!

[2nd Timothy]

Hmmmm. So.... the Bible is independent of history? I thought that Christians were proud of the fact that the occurances in the Bible can be shown true with Historical Proof. You don't have to study pagan religion to find the facts, they are in the study of the trinity.

I accept scripture as God breathed word.  While I do accept history, I do not put it above scripture as truth.  The pulrality of God can be seen in the very first book and chapter in the Bible.

Gen 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image[....]

Jesus and the Father.

Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7  If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8  Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9  Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Joh 14:26  But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name[....]

And

Joh 15:26  But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Plurality!  3 persons, one God.  Read all the pagan history you want, I'm sticking with Jesus own words, because he is the word.

Grace and Peace!

[KittiK]

On the line...here we go.
I totally agree that Jesus was there in the begining.
I totally agree that Jesus took man form.
I totally agree He (Jesus) is to be worshiped.
I totally agree that Jesus is the Son of the Almighty God.
I totally agree that they functioned as one (like a family unit)

I totally disagree that God and Jesus was equal.
I totally disagree that they were (are) the same person, entity or deity.

[2nd Timothy]

On the line...here we go.
I totally agree that Jesus was there in the begining.
I totally agree that Jesus took man form.
I totally agree He (Jesus) is to be worshiped.
I totally agree that Jesus is the Son of the Almighty God.
I totally agree that they functioned as one (like a family unit)

I totally disagree that God and Jesus was equal.
I totally disagree that they were (are) the same person, entity or deity.

Then you are telling me that Jesus lied when he said...

Joh 10:30  I and my Father are one.

 These are his own words! Claiming euality with the Father.

And that where God says....

Exo 20:3  Thou shalt have no other gods before

And yet Jesus says...

Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

One in essence, existing in 3 different persons, Father, Son, and Holy spirit!

Mar 12:29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one  Lord:

Here he says One!  These are not controdictions in scripture.  

Jesus spoke of himself as both God and man.  Without him being both, its impossible for him to be a saviour to man.   Its not an easy concept for the mind to handle.  But it is scriptural.  He is one God, in three persons.  And Jesus was both Man and God.

Grace and Peace!

[2nd Timothy]

1Th 4:8  He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit

Without the spirit, we cannot know christ,

1Co 12:3  Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

and without christ we cannot know the father...

Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

And yet....

Mar 12:29  [..........] The Lord our God is one  Lord:

It might be difficult to understand, but we must accept his word as truth.  We can only accept this by faith!

Grace and Peace!

[2nd Timothy]

OK, lets consider the following passages.

Mic 5:2  But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Who is everlasting?  Jesus had not been born here...but it says "whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting".  Only Deity can make this claim.

Joh 5:23  That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Co-equal....not one above the other!  We honor the father as God do we not?  They are equal in every sense of the word!

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Who was the word that took on flesh and dwelt amongst us for a while?  Only Jesus...who WAS GOD!

Col 2:8  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Note this verse carefully.  In him dwelleth the FULLNESS of the Godhead bodily.  He and his father are one...working by the POWER of the holy spirit.  3 yet 1!


Phi 2:5  Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phi 2:6  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

He was in the form of God!  And thought it not robbery to be equal with GOD!  But MADE HIMSELF of no reputaion, and took the form of a servant.  Only God can do these things.  

This is scripture my friend.  Jesus was God, and still is.  WE who accept him are his family.

Grace and Peace!