Is Jesus God? - Part One

[JudgeNot]

There is no Trinity.

Oooooo - Danny Boy - you are steppin on a LOT of toes with that one.
The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost is what the New Testament is all about.  Basic Christianity, dude, basic Christianity.

You DO KNOW this is a Christian forum, don't you?  

[DannyB]

You mean "basic trinitarianism" don't you?

I really don't mean any disrepect but when Christ cleared the money changers out of the Temple, do you think he was worried about stepping on toes?  I don't think so.  

My intention isn't to step on toes. My intention is to point to the truth and let those who can see it find it.  

I always thought it was funny that trinitarians use John 1:1 to prove the trinity while the rest of us use the exact same verses to disprove it.

Peace. I didn't come to wage war, I came to debate the topic that is on the table at the moment. Maybe you guys should get some steel toed boots so that we can really dig into this one and maybe look at what the Bible has to say about it, besides John 1:1 of course.

[JudgeNot]

My intention is to point to the truth

 

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to KittiK and DannyB,

The question of the Holy Trinity is a precious topic, one that can't be left untended. What I am about to say is said in Christian love and is not intended to insult anyone. With that in mind, here goes:

To say that Jesus Christ is not God is blasphemy. I realize that some people do this in complete ignorance and have no idea what they are doing or saying. I don't believe for a minute that you are trying to blaspheme the name of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. I believe that what you said was said in total ignorance. It is time for you to learn the truth and never again let any person, saved or unsaved think that you are blaspheming the Holy Name of Jesus Christ. By the way, your questions have already been asked and answered in this thread.

Please, remember this is said in Christian love.

Start reading from the first of this thread, and you will see the unquestioned and undeniable TRUTH OF THE HOLY TRINITY. If you diligently study those precious portions of Scripture that PROVE the HOLY TRINITY without ANY DOUBT OF ANY TYPE, many here will help you. If you are a professing Christian, it is time for you to find out who your Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ is. With further diligent study, you will discover why God took the form of a man, walked the earth in the form of a man, and was crucified on the cross in our stead.

Jesus Christ is and always was Almighty God, the Lord of Hosts, the King of Kings, and the Creator of the Universe. In fact, Jesus Christ was Almighty God for eternity past and is Almighty God for eternity future.

The Holy Spirit is and always was Almighty God for eternity past and is Almighty God for eternity future.

Jesus Christ is the only way, the truth, and the life. If you have accepted him as your personal Lord and Saviour and are born again, you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in your heart.

If you have placed your faith in some Jesus who is not Almighty God, you are lost and are not saved.

This is not something you should lightly brush aside. It is time to find out who Jesus Christ is.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[ebia]

Ebia- Sabellianism is the word I’ve always heard. Still, it is just hard to descried it.

Same thing, but modalism is easier to spell  

 

Water can’t be ice and steam at the same time like God can be all 3. It is a mystery

Exactly.

[KittiK]

No offense taken .....and none meant....

I don't think that I'm the one operating with limited understanding. You say it is blasphemy to think that Jesus is different from God? I think it is blasphemy not to see the true depth of what God sacrificed for us.....what Jesus really did. What is trully at stake has not been addressed. After all, He did give his only begotten Son for us, did He not?

In the definition of "Christian"....it does NOT say that my belief or disbelief of the trinity is a requirement. I may profess myself a Christian so long as I believe in Jesus, what He stands for and follow Him. That's what I do....it's what I am.

I can see by reading from the beginning of this thread that the power of the trinity is unquestionable and undeniable to many people. I see The Almighty God, The Magnificent Lord Jesus Christ, and The Glorious Holy Spirit.

I already know who Jesus is...He and I have been good friends for a while now.

I am not working in total ignorance...I have studied most of my life. I have searched for the truth and found many people who thought they knew what it was. I have made an educated choice just like you.  I am not lost...God knows exactly where I am, but thank you for caring.

In Christian Love,
KittiK

[Reba]

Heb 1:6-8

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
KJV

John 1:1-5
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
KJV

[Symphony]

   


    "See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ.  

For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily..."

(Col. 2:8,9...)


     

[KittiK]

 

    "See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ.  

For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily..."

(Col. 2:8,9...)

     

Jesus is quoted in the Bible saying that he did not come to do His own will, He was sent (never once implied that He was the sender as well) and that His teachings were not His. (John 6:38, John 7:16, John 8:42) The family relationship is used in describing His relationship with God…Father and Son. Jesus being the son implies a submissive position.  The Father having authority over a son would disprove the Trinitarian belief that They are indeed one deity. If this were the case it seems plausible to use a brother to describe the relationship. Quite frankly,  I don't see how any circumstantial evidence you show can refute this basic concept.

Passages inside of John 14-17:
Statements with a submission-motif are 17 :

1. In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. (?)
2. The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.
3. And whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. (?)
4. the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.
5. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.
6. but that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave Me commandment, even so I do
7. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments, and abide in His love
8. all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.
9. But now I am going to Him who sent Me
10. for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from the Father. 28 “I came forth from the Father, and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again, and going to the Father.”
11. even as Thou gavest Him authority over all mankind, that to all whom Thou hast given Him, He may give eternal life.
12. I manifested Thy name to the men whom Thou gavest Me out of the world; Thine they were, and Thou gavest them to Me,
13. Now they have come to know that everything Thou hast given Me is from Thee; 8 for the words which Thou gavest Me I have given to them; and they received them, and truly understood that I came forth from Thee, and they believed that Thou didst send Me
14. Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, the name which Thou hast given Me, that they may be one, even as We are. (?)
15. “As Thou didst send Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. ()
16. that the world may know that Thou didst send Me,
17. Father, I desire that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me; for Thou didst love Me before the foundation of the world (?)

[Reba]

Heb 1:6-8

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
KJV


Mick ,or who ever, if you do not believe Jesus is God you are a heathen.

[KittiK]

Considering that the Trinity did not even exist until three centuries after the death of Jesus.....how can you say that? Constinople forced the teachings of this. Council Nicea 321. If it was the truth, Jesus would have been VERY specific about it...just like He was about EVERYTHING ELSE that was important about worship.

I believe that Jesus is my savior, my Lord, my Intercessor. God is my Father, the Almighty.

Such belief in a God that has to change forms....that's idolatry. That's the first commandment being ripped from it's very base.

[Reba]

Seems you think all who believe Jesus Christ is God are idolators.

 This is the Word of God is God an idolator? He calls his Son God...

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

[Reba]

John 1:1-14
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
KJV


2 John 9-11

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
KJV

[Reba]

Gen 18:1-3
18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
KJV

[DannyB]

I have already addressed that. If you would be so kind as to review this thread and read my posts you will find your answer there.