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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
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| | |-+  Is Jesus God? - Part One
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Author Topic: Is Jesus God? - Part One  (Read 39801 times)
nChrist
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« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2004, 08:03:45 PM »

Oklahoma Howdy to Petro,

AMEN BROTHER! I enjoyed your post.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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Allinall
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« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2004, 11:21:19 AM »

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If we were to go on just two verses,then yes,Jesus WAS God:-
Jesus said:-"I and my Father are one and the same" (John 10:30), and "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father" (John 14:8)But a number of other verses make it clear that he was using a figure of speech only,and that in fact he WASN'T God:-
"Why do you call me good? Only God is good" (Luke 18:18)
and "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be,I don't know myself" (Matt 24:36)
Jesus himself said he was SON of God (NOT God) when the High Priest asked:-"Are you the Son of God?", and Jesus replied:-"I am" (Mark 14:61)

I'm not sure if anyone's already posted this as I've just stumbled onto the latter portions here, but Mick?  Why do you suppose it angered the High Priest so much that Jesus claimed divine sonship?  Was it simply because that in itself seemed blasphemous, or did the culture determine part of that anger?

It is good to garner from an understanding of Jewish culture at that time to understand more fully what Jesus was saying and what the Jews of that day fully understood Him to be saying.  For a man to be born to a family, he would be a child.  We, being born again into God's family, are therefore his children.  But for a man to be a son was another bowl of fruit!  Such an honor came only when that child matured to the age of 13.  At that time he became a son - and carried the full weight of his father's name with him.  That is, he wasn't simply the father's son in that culture...he was the father.  If the son made a statement, it was as good as the father making the statement.  

Carry this into the Jews mind and understanding when Jesus said He was the Son.  He was saying that what He said was of equal importance and weight with what the Father said.  He said that He said only what the Father wanted Him to say, which meant that He and only He would have that knowledge.  Such weight gave authority that no man prior to Jesus possessed.  Scripture even says that when Jesus spoke, He spoke as "one possessing authority."

Jesus, in our culture, makes a substantial claim to deity as well.  He doesn't claim simply to be member of God's chosen people - Israel.  He doesn't claim simply to be God's child and therefore in possession of a simple relationship.  He claims to be one with God.  He claims to be the same as God.  That lays hold of ground never before crossed or held.

Jesus claims, supports, and is supported to be God very God.  Praise His Holy Name!!!
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nChrist
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« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2004, 03:42:22 PM »

OKlahoma Howdy to Allinall,

AMEN BROTHER!

I enjoyed your post. It all boils down to some simple and beautiful truths. Jesus did pay it all for me, and I was bought with a price of HIS precious blood. When I say that I belong to Jesus, I am saying that I belong to God, I am a child of God, and Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour.

I would also be saying that I belong to a church not made with human hands, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST.

I would also be saying that the Holy Spirit dwells in my heart to guide and comfort me.

I would also be saying that Almighty God through HIS GRACE and LOVE offered me a GIFT!, Jesus Christ who died on the cross in my place, in payment for my sins. In short, this is the MAJESTY, POWER, AND BEAUTY OF THE HOLY TRIUNE GODHEAD.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2004, 03:34:44 PM »

Hey!  A man could preach that Brother Tom!   Wink  I'll just say, AAAMMMMEEENNN!!!
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« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2004, 06:44:33 PM »

Jesus is DIRECTLY called God:

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (Matthew 1:23)

He is called God by God the Father:

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrew 1:Cool

He is called God by John:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1; the Word refers to Jesus -v.14)

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. (1 John 5:20)

He is called God by Thomas:
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (John 20:28)

If Thomas erred so seriously in addressing Lord Jesus as God, why was there no correction by Jesus? And why did Lord Jesus commend his faith?

Lord Jesus refers to Himself as God:
I and my Father are one. (John 10:30)

(Note the reaction of Jews:- The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. (John 10:33)

(Lord Jesus said) But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (Jon 10:38)

he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; (John 14:9)

He is called God by the writer of Hebrews:

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, (1:3)

He is called God by Apostle Paul:

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (Luke quoted Paul; Acts 20:28)

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God[/b]: (Phil. 2:6)

Who is the image of the invisible God, (Col. 1:15)

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (Titus 2:13)

Etc., etc.

The Lord Jesus claimed and exercised the Prerogatives of God. He had the rights of God, and did the works of God.

Forgives sins
Raises the dead
Controls natures
Judges motives
Receives worship
Sends the Holy Spirit
Creates
Sustains
He is the only Judge
He is to receive equal honour with the Father
The only Saviour
He grants eternal life
He answers prayer
Etc., etc.

The Lord Jesus Christ fulfills Old Testament Scriptures which apply to Jehovah God:

Creator
Jehovah is Creator - Isa.44:24
Jesus is Creator - John 1:3

First and Last
Jehovah is the First and the Last - Isa. 42.8
Jesus is the First and the Last - Rev.1:8, 17, 18.
Highest glory

Forgiver
Jehovah alone can forgive sin - Isa 43.:25
Jesus forgives sin - Mark 2:7-10

Holy One
Jehovah is the Holy One - Isa. 43:3
Jesus is the Holy One - Acts. 3:14

The One coming
Jehovah is coming with His reward - Isa. 40:10
Jesus is coming with His reward - Rev. 22:12

Shepherd
Jehovah is the Shepherd - Psa. 23:1
Jesus is the Shepherd - John 10

King
Jehovah is King - Zech. 14:9
Jesus is King - Rev. 19:16

I Am
Jehovah is the I Am - Exo. 3:14
Jesus is the I Am - John 8:58, 59

One GodJehovah is the only true God - Isa. 43:10
Jesus is the true God - 1 John 5:20

The only Saviour
Jehovah is the only Saviour - Isa. 43:11
Jesus is the only Saviour - Mat. 1:21

The Light of New Jerusalem
Jehovah is the Light of New Jerusalem - Isa. 60:19
Jesus is the Light of New Jerusalem - Rev. 21:23

The One Who cleanses sin
Jehovah is the One Who cleanses sin - Isa. 43:25
Jesus is the One Who cleanses sin - 1 John 1:7

The Rock
Jehovah is the Rock - Deut. 32:4
Jesus is the Rock - 1 Pet. 2:6-8

The Judge of the earth
Jehovah is the Judge of the earth - Gen. 18:25
Jesus is the Judge of the earth - 2 Cor. 5:10

Etc., etc.

Why then the Lord Jesus prayed?

He prayed because He was a man. Keep in mind that in the Incarnation, Jesus was 100 percent God and 100 percent man. As a man, it is good and proper that he pray.

Jesus IS God, Jesus is Jehovah - the God Who became man because of His amazing love to us. It needs grace and humility for some to believe this truth and I pray may the Lord grant them His amazing grace to believe. I praise the Lord for those who found grace to believe.

It is not easy for human brain to comprehend what Trinity is. Though it is not directly mentioned in the Bible, it is given at several places. The heathen King Nebuchadnezzar said it, in Daniel 2:47, but Christians cannot believe it. An example I have heard is this:

Take some water and heat it. It becomes steam. Cool the steam, it becomes water. Freeze the water, it becomes ice. If we warm the ice, it becomes water again. WATER, ICE and STEAM are three different things, but one.

By calling the Lord Jesus Jehovah, I am not denying the fact that the Father is Jehovah and that the Holy Spirit is Jehovah. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are together the Eternal Jehovah God, as the scripture clearly teach. The evidence for the deity of Lord Jesus is conclusive. Those who deny it, dishonor the Father (John 5:23) and face eternal tragedy (John 8:24).

He who has an ear, let him hear (Rev. 2:7)
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« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2004, 08:27:28 PM »

Quote
Take some water and heat it. It becomes steam. Cool the steam, it becomes water. Freeze the water, it becomes ice. If we warm the ice, it becomes water again. WATER, ICE and STEAM are three different things, but one.

Oklahoma Howdy to PhilKosba,

I enjoyed your post, especially the illustration above. This illustration really caught my attention, and I was thinking immediately about THE LIVING WATER.

Thanks Brother.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2004, 08:48:25 PM »

H/She who is a Spiritual Christian seeking to explain the doctrine of The Trinity to a non-Christian, or to a new Christian, may want to do it like this: God is Spirit. He is without bodily form, without beginning or end, has no boundaries or limitations. Whatever He wills to do, is done. Spirit God manifested Himself in the earth in the person of Jesus Christ to witness to humankind and to pay the price for our sin/sins without giving up any of His spirituality. Although 100% God, 100% spiritual, He was here on earth 100% visible. After showing us The Way and paying the price for sin/sins, He rose up out of the tomb, appeared to His followers, and then ascended into Heaven. On the Day of Pentecost God manifested Himself to us in the person of the Holy Spirit, to dwell with us, taking up residence in those who receive Jesus Christ as Savior, Messiah, not only to the Jew, but to everyone. In Him all of us are the same. There is no Jew or Gentile, no slave or free, no race, no creed, no nationality. All are seen as one. All who follow Him are made one in Him. This is a simple method for introducing the concept of the Trinity to those who have yet to believe, or who are newly won to Christ. This highly complex, Spiritual union is beyond explanation for veterans of scripture, and they love His Truth, blessed One in Three.
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« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2004, 09:43:10 PM »

Not bad at all, Don - short and sweet and to the point - just as I like a post to be.  (I have a short attention span.)  Smiley
It IS a hard concept to explain - particularly to someone who doesn't want to understand.  
The Holy Trinity must be the single hardest thing for a non-believer and *others to comprehend.  

(*I consider someone who doesn't believe that Jesus is God as being in the others category.)
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« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2004, 01:38:23 AM »

Agreed JudgeNot.  I really liked the ice water gas analogy.  The only simple one I had heard before was an Apple.

The core, the eatible part, and the skin.  3 parts, one fruit.  I think I'll move to the gas ice water analogy, I like that one better.

Grace and Peace!
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« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2004, 07:31:04 PM »

Personally, I have always liked the “mask” analogy. Each of the 3 is a “mask” of sorts that God wears.
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« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2004, 07:50:39 PM »

Like I said in my intro...I am not that well versed in the Bible, but being that as it may... I was (and am) listening in Church. Although I did not read each and every single post in this thread...I feel compelled to say my piece (or peace, which ever you like). Maybe you can answer some questions for me...

How can Jesus sit at the right hand of God if he is in the throne itself?

How can Jesus be with God if He is God?

If we are intructed to "become one" when we wed...meaning that we act together..united.. towards one goal...then why is Jesus' statement about being one with God percieved differently?


I believe that Jesus and God are two different entities along with the Holy Spirit. And one more thing....If they are one in the same...then why clarify the thousand year reign of Jesus?
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« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2004, 01:24:33 AM »

Personally, I have always liked the “mask” analogy. Each of the 3 is a “mask” of sorts that God wears.
This is fine as long as you remember it's just a (poor) analogy.  If you start to regard it as an accurate description, it's dangerously close to the heresy of modalism.  

The same is true of the water, ice, steam one, IMO.

The trouble with explaining the trinity, is that it IS a paradox.   There simply isn't, and cannot be, an suitable equivalent to use as an illustration in this world.
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« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2004, 09:05:22 AM »

Trinity, triune, Godhead, are all words that we cannot find in the Bible. These are all descriptives that men have verbally used to teach the trinity.

The Bible doesnt teach the trinity, men do.
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« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2004, 05:39:00 PM »

The Bible doesnt teach the trinity, men do.

Are you trying to say  Doctrine of the trinity is wrong, or are you saying the word is man-made?

Ebia- Sabellianism is the word I’ve always heard. Still, it is just hard to descried it. Water can’t be ice and steam at the same time like God can be all 3. It is a mystery
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« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2004, 06:36:16 PM »

I am merely trying to express that the Bible doesn't teach the trinity. Men made it up. Who are we to lay God on the table and disect him and proclaim to understand?

Jesus and Jehova are separate individuals of one accord. Christ was given all power and authority over every thing except Jehova. (in Rev.) Why was that reservation made?

There is no Trinity. There is no mysterious paradox. None of those words or teachings appear in the scriptures. God is not the father of confusion, Satan is.
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