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Author Topic: Is Jesus God? - Part One  (Read 40057 times)
KittiK
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« Reply #75 on: February 03, 2004, 02:55:26 PM »

Jesus is deity. I agree.

John 5:23.....says "even as"...not equal to

In the text of the sonship..I offer this explanation....

Sonship might imply many things in that culture: subordination, heirship, resemblance to the father, shared values, unique 'insider' relationship with the father. In any given context, sonship might refer to only one of these elements (e.g. heirship) without any connotation of another element (e.g. resemblance). For example, in the Parable of the Wicked Tenants, the son of the king is only noted for his heirship, not his subordinate authority(!), nor his resemblance, nor his shared values.

 

On the other hand, Jesus refers often to His opponents' hatred for both Himself and His Father--the resemblance is emphasized--and His own references to His subordination are legion (as you have noted).

 

But with Jesus, we note quite a high number of references to (a) likeness/resemblance [e.g., the 'see Me, see the Father' passages];  (b) "quasi-essential" unity [e.g., the reciprocal in-dwelling passages]; and (c) intimate relationship:

 

"Third, as Son of God Jesus enjoys intimate fellowship with the Father. John describes this intimacy in spatial terms: “in the bosom of the Father” (Jn 1:18). Specifically, this relationship involves (1) “knowing” the Father and his will (Jn 4:22–23; 6:45–47; 8:55; 15:15); (2) sharing in all that the Father has (Jn 16:15); and (3) enjoying special access and influence with the Father (Jn 14:13–16). [NT:DictJG, s.v. "son of God"]

--From the Christian Thinktank--

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« Reply #76 on: February 03, 2004, 03:36:49 PM »

Quote
Jesus is deity. I agree.

John 5:23.....says "even as"...not equal to

Isa 41:4  Who has planned and done it, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, Jehovah, am the first and the last; I am He.


Rev 22:12  And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according as his work is.
Rev 22:13  I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, the First and the Last.


One simply cannot separate the two here KittyK.


Rev 22:14  Blessed are they who do His commandments, that their authority will be over the Tree of Life, and they may enter in by the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15  But outside are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and makes a lie.
Rev 22:16  I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify these things to you over the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star.

Jesus (the one speaking here), the first and the last, Alpha and Omega, beginning and ending......Jehovah God!

EDIT TO ADD...

Isa 45:5  I am Jehovah, and there is none else, no God besides Me; I clothed you, though you have not known Me;
Isa 45:6  that they may know from the rising of the sun, and to the sunset, that there is none besides Me. I am Jehovah, and there is none else;

Deu 6:4  Hear, O, Israel. Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.


Again.  ONE GOD 3 persons....the trinity!

Grace and Peace!
« Last Edit: February 03, 2004, 03:47:25 PM by 2nd Timothy » Logged

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« Reply #77 on: February 03, 2004, 04:57:11 PM »

God had to take on the form of man in order to be our saviour.   Christ surrendered only the prerecognatives of deity but nothing of his divine essense either in degree or kind.  He had to be man in order to show us the things of God.  But he had to retain his deity in order to please Gods righteousness and justice on the cross.

Many times in the gospels, Jesus refered to the father in his humanity (teaching us how live).  And other times he claimed equality with the father...I and My father are the same in one for example.  Trust me, I know its not easy to grasp, I'm not sure I grasp it fully myself.   But When Jesus himself makes the claim....

Rev 22:13  I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, the First and the Last.

And yet before Jesus was even born we see Jehovah making the exact same claim in the OT....

Isa 41:4  Who has planned and done it, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, Jehovah, am the first and the last; I am He.

I accept Jesus claim in John when he says, I and my father are one!   This also explains John 1:1 to me.

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

To paraphrase....He says in the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus WAS GOD.  I know its a mind blower for sure.   We probably will not fully understand it until we are face to face with God.   All I can tell you is, there are three persons spoken about in scripture as being deity, and yet scripture also tells us they are One!

Deu 6:4  Hear, O, Israel. Jehovah our God is one Jehovah

Col 2:9  For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

I will pray for you that the holy spirit will reveal these things to you as you dwell on these verses and seek his wisdom.   If you trust him, and ask him, he will show you HIS truth.

Grace and Peace!
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« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2004, 10:19:48 PM »

    Well its time for another "No Spin the Bible Zone" post.

    I don't know about the rest of you but I do know about ME!

    I wasn't taught by men of any denomination, or by men at all. I went searching for my creator, without any preconceived notion of where I would find my creator. I went in search of absolute truth! I never asked anyones opinion, because there was nobody I trusted that seemed to have the truth. I didn't go to church, or study Church history.

    I was aware that there were many different so called "Christian" denominations as well as those who claim belief in Jesus but deny being Christian. Theres the Catholics, the Protestants (Adventists, Baptists, Congragationalists, Episcopalians (spelling?) Methodists, Nondenominationalists, Presbeterians (spelling?), Southern Baptists, and many more, then theres the fringe groups, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, The Twelve Tribes, ect.ect.ect...All these groups use the name "Jesus" but it seemed to me something must be seriously wrong for there to be so many groups divided from each other but all claiming to believe in "Jesus" and all claiming to be the true "Church" or true group of believers implying that everyone else has gotten it wrong.

     So far I've just dealt with groups "claiming" a relationship to Jesus. I knew of many other religons, Buddists, Hindus, Muslims, and many others, but none of them seemed to have the "TRUTH."

     So when I first went in search of my Creator, I decided to start "close to home" with Christianity as a whole. Once I'd ruled out Christianity, I had planned on learning about Buddism or Hinduism or something else... I never got that far into my search to have a methodical plan of search.

     I decided to myself that instead of going to each denomination to find what they are supposed to represent, and what their theories are, I'd take the "smart" "simple" approach by studing the Book that all these different groups use called "The Bible". I figured that by studing the "Text Book" of all these different groups, I could eliminate the need to study each group independantly. All I had to do was to rule out the Bible as the "TRUTH", and I could rule out all the groups that used the Bible as the basis for their religon. Seemed very simple and smart, because I thought it was a smart short cut to rule out the Bible and every group using it, so I could continue on my search without feeling I'd missed something. In simple terms "If I can prove the Bible is flawed, and false, and not the truth, all it would take would be "ONE LIE" and I could dismiss the entire Book." If the Book lied once than I can't trust anything in it, how could I? How would a person know what can be trusted and what can not be trusted? If there were lies in the Bible God could not judge me by the Book, it would not be Just to do so.(My Creator had to be "just" in my mind at the time.)

      This was going to be easy, find one "LIE" in the Bible and I could rule out Christianity altogether, and if one of those denominations was right, it wouldn't matter because if the Bible text lied, God could not send me to hell if it existed because I was going to argue that I was denied the truth, once I found a lie why should I be expected to believe anything else the Bible said. My father used to say "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!" and that was my logic and planned "failsafe" defense, just in case.

   How clever and smart I thought I was when I came up with my "fool proof" approach. This was going to be too easy, I was going to be able to write off every Bible based religon, without even having to study them, and if by some chance, one of them was right, it wouldn't matter because surely my defense (fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me) would make my creator understand that judging me for not believing in the Bible at all after I found 1 lie was not fair or just.

    I thought "how stupid of people not thinking of this approach, its a win-win senerio. When I find 1 Lie in the Bible I can rule out Christianity, and all the others who use the Bible, and if by some remote chance somebody "is" right, I'll just use my "fool proof defense" to get out of dismissing it, without having to study each group. I'm not just "smart", I'm a "Genius!" I had found away around judgment and was going to "outsmart" God (just in case He was real after all.)

    Only a Genius like me was smart enough to think of this. (oh how smart I thought I was.)

    This is where I'll end part one of my post, people hate long posts but a coulpe long ones beats 34 small ones when telling a story like this so bear with me. This was the back ground info you needed before I get to the point of the whole story here. As you have already noticed, I had a "Fool Proof" plan, but something must have happened for here I am at Christiansunite sharing my story with you. I never made it to Budda, Islam, ...My ingenius "fool proof" plan had one unforeseen flaw... there was one possiblity I had over looked...    to be continued... please bear with me (only B.E.P. responded to my last post but you may find this interesting, or you may be bored, I'll settle for either one)

          Paul2 - The Genius?    Wink   Undecided   Huh
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« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2004, 11:11:22 PM »

Oklahoma Howdy to Paul2,

Brother, I must respond again. I don't care how long the posts are. I love to hear real life testimonies of how people come to Christ. It is a joy to listen to someone brave enough and honest enough to talk about their doubts and human condition before accepting Christ. The real beauty and joy of each testimony is how Christ accepts us, warts and all, when we yield and ask HIM to come into our hearts as The Lord of our lives, our Precious Saviour.

We all have huge and ugly warts, but HE still loves us and will accept us. Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!

Love In Christ,
Tom
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« Reply #80 on: February 04, 2004, 12:09:18 AM »

                Part 2 continued from last post.

     Well I left off telling everybody "how smart I was, a genius!" I went and bought a Bible and went straight to the Book of Revelation. Being as smart as I once was I figured I'd see how the Bible ended and work to find "my lie" so I could get on with my search.

    Revelation sure was a mysterious Book, loaded with symbols and one symbol caught my eye and made me curious, a seven headed dragon with ten horns. Was this Satan? Was this the Antichrist? (I had knowledge of Antichrist from the movie the "Omen" in which Damien Thorn had three 6's on his head under his hair). As I read revelation I read "those who are wise will calculate the number of the beast for it is a mans number and his number is 666.) This was "cool" stuff, I always liked supernatural horror movies like the omen and hey, they got the idea from the Bible right? Thats the way I saw it then mind you.

     OK, forget looking for the lie, now I'm interested in seeing if a "genius" like myself was "wise" enough to calculate the number of the beast. I read Revelation over and over and guess what? Something must be wrong because I couldn't understand the Book, it was interesting, but I couldn't really understand it. Why couldn't I understand this, what did it mean and who was "wise" that could understand this? My father used to say " a smart man may know the answer, but a "wise" will find the answer. ALLRIGHTY THEN! A wise man will find the answer, that must mean to be wise, I must search for the answer. Then I got an idea, I'll talk to my creator and ask for help. So I talked to my Creator and said something to the effect of "show me the truth. Show me the "truth" of the Bible, meaning show me whether or not the book is the truth."

     I was trying to trick God again. I don't know if I was fully aware of it but thats what I can see now I was doing. I was looking for another easy win- win scenario. If by some small chance the Book was really the Word of God and the truth, God now must prove it to me by giving me the wisdom to solve the riddle of the number of the beast. I thought God was obligated to make me wise enough to solve this riddle of 666 if he was in fact God. How could God deny someone seeking wisdom to solve the mystery of 666 in the Bible if he was really God. Surely God wouldn't hold out on this "wisdom" from a "genius" like me who even "covered the base" of actually talking to God ("if he was real and could really listen, was what I was thinking") surely he has no choice but to respond. So I read Revelation again and again and this time....
nothing...no wisdom, no understanding, Hey! WHATS GOING ON! I ASKED FOR WISDOM? IF YOU DON'T GIVE ME THE WISDOM TO SOLVE THE RIDDLE OF 666 I'M GOING TO GIVE UP ON THIS BOOK!......(surely if God is real that should have worked, surely if he's God he's reasonable. I spent 30 bucks on this bible and even took the time to read the 21 pages of Revelation, what more could he want, I should be all set now!

    ALLRIGHTY THEN, I'm gonna read the Book of Revelation again, really carefully and this time.........nothing? NOTHING? HEY! DIDN'T YOU HEAR ME? I SAID IF YOU DON'T GIVE ME THE WISDOM I'M GONNA PUT THIS BOOK DOWN! (then somewhere in my head my voice said, "yah, go head, put the book down but you'll never find your answer, you'll never understand it, your not wise enough.".........why?....why aren't I wise enough? Why would somebody write all about this dragon/beast thing and the 666 number of the beast and say that the wise would understand if it couldn't be solved? Who would do such a thing? there must be a way of learning what this was supposed to mean because it was written for somebody... somebody wise! There must be some kind of mistake....How could I not be one of the "wise".

      I didn't know it at the time or at least it didn't really sink in at that point, but I was becoming obsessed with being denied this wisdom to solve the 666 mystery. What was going on here? who's responcible for this? Who gave me this riddle and said the "wise" will understand, but refuses to give me the wisdom to solve the riddle?........HEY!!!! WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME? ...WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO?... I READ THIS MYSTERY IN REVELATION AND I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS AND THE BOOK SAYS THOSE WITH WISDOM WILL UNDERSTAND, AND I'M TRYING TO BE WISE AND NOTHING!!!...I want to figure this out (thinking deep down: so I can move on and get beyond this mystery once I solve it) ...
............HEY!!!...WHATS IT GONNA TAKE?  WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME!!!...WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO READ THIS WHOLE BOOK??...what did I just say?...(thinking to myself: "What am I supposed to do? Read this whole book"..."read this whole book?"... "Read this whole book?"...READ THIS WHOLE BOOK??..."read this whole book!"
..."Read this whole book!!"  "READ THIS WHOLE BOOK!!!"........."I'M SUPPOSED TO READ THIS WHOLE BOOK??"... "THATS IT!!! I'M SUPPOSED TO READ THIS WHOLE BOOK AREN'T I ??"... "I'M RIGHT AREN'T I ??"..."I'M SUPPOSED TO READ THIS WHOLE BOOK!!!" "SURELY IF I READ THIS WHOLE BOOK I'LL GET THE WISDOM TO UNDERSTAND THE RIDDLE!!!"... I'M GONNA READ THIS WHOLE BIBLE AND THEN YOU'LL GIVE ME THE WISDOM TO SOLVE THE RIDDLE, WON'T YOU???... OF COURSE YOU WILL FOR SURELY I WAS MEANT TO BE WISE AND UNDERSTAND!!!

      We are almost there now, I'm almost to the point of this story. This all took place 14 years ago. I'll finish the story and get to my main point in the next post. Just a tease before I end this post. You know the wisdom that I was seeking to understand the number of the Beast? Well God has an awesome sense of humor, He gave me wisdom and understanding of so many things except the wisdom I was seeking which led me to Him. I now know that I am not one of the "wise" who will be able to calculate the # of the Beast. God has shown me his awesome sense of humor many times since then and always the same dramatic effect. Don't try to "fool" God because take it from me, He has an awesome sense of humor but the jokes always on you, but He's awesome and you can't help but to see the humor and can't possibly get mad at him for it because, hey, you deserved it and it always serves His purpose, but God does have a sense of humor and I for one can truely appreceiate it.

      Hang in there, I'm gonna bring it home and make my point but it will have to be tomorrow, sorry, but I type with two fingers and its late. Stay tuned.......

                                                      Paul2 Cool
« Last Edit: February 04, 2004, 12:24:36 AM by Paul2 » Logged

Reba
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« Reply #81 on: February 04, 2004, 12:26:08 AM »

She says so sweetly .... Tongue  Jerk Tongue
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Reba
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« Reply #82 on: February 04, 2004, 12:39:11 AM »

Preaching that Jesus Christ is not God is a false gospel.  Doesn't matter how nicely the person says it or how crude. Fancy pretty words don’t change the basic truth or lies of a doctrine.  Many times it is the pleasing side of falseness that traps us. I am thinking of Delilah, or the angel of light.
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KittiK
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« Reply #83 on: February 04, 2004, 09:59:30 AM »

It's strange but, I have heard about 10 different versions of what the trinity is. You can't seem to decide exactly what it is, or what it means. Each church has it's own version and you each think your version is right. If it really is the BASIC Christianism that you make it out to be, there would have been direct, distinct, and non-argueable directions on it's rules. I can't get past that. There is absolutely NO verse that says "Jesus and God are one GOD" No, it says they were one. Not one GOD. For those of you that are watching this thread, trying to find an answer....please try some biblical unitarian sites and do further research there.

You didn't convince me, sorry.
Have a nice life.
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« Reply #84 on: February 04, 2004, 01:40:44 PM »

For those of you that are watching this thread, trying to find an answer....please try some biblical unitarian sites and do further research there.

You didn't convince me, sorry.
Have a nice life.

      For those of you that are watching this thread, trying to find answers, BEWARE of anyone that suggests IGNORING the study of the BIBLE, and going to some other site to do your research. The "no spin" reality is they are telling you, "never mind God's written word, the Bible, the answer your looking for is not there, come and see what someone else has written, because I don't agree with what the Bible teaches, I believe the teachings of men or women over the Word of God!"

    Don't trust your soul to anyone! This is way to important! Your Salvation is at stake! You might as well just join the Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses or a Satanic Cult for that matter for all who deny Jesus is God end up in the same place, the Lake of Fire, Hell, for eterity. I don't know why some people chose to ignore God's Word and follow the teachings of men which leads to Hell but I do know they all want company, your company with them!

     I'm willing to have "friendly" debates on topics that do not involve Salvation such as prophecy but when Salvation is at stake I don't pull my punches!

     Satan loves religon as long as theres "one" lie that that turns Salvation into Damnation. Denying Jesus is God destroys Salvation!

     Do you really think that when someone ignores the Word of God and trys to lead you away from it to study something else, that person is "looking out for you?" No, that person has some agenda, some purpose for not wanting you to study the truth.

     KittiK wants you people to follow her, and wants you people to get off this forum where we teach the Word of God, by using the Word of God. We show you what the bible says on the subject of Jesus being God, and KittiK is scared we might convince you. Somehow she allowed herself to be deceived, and now she wants you to follow her into deception.

    She is losing her debate right here right now and is running out of arguements because the evidence against her beliefs are overpowering her ability to defend her flawed beliefs.

    So now she starts to panic. She's thinking "I've got to get people away from here before they believe these guys".

    The "No Spin" reality is she has to get you to leave before the Word of God convinces you of the truth. She wants you to follow her away from here where people can post the Word of God and give you all the FACTS that the Bible teaches on Jesus being God. She wants you to go somewhere you'll only hear one side of the arguement, her side.

    Well heres my suggestion, people stay here, and let KittiK go and bring her teachers to come here and debate us. Then you'll be able to see both sides and see who is teaching the truth. I'll debate anyone with the Word of God because the Word of God is truth.

         Who's looking out for you? Paul2 thats who!

                                                     Paul2
« Last Edit: February 04, 2004, 02:25:29 PM by Paul2 » Logged

Reba
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« Reply #85 on: February 04, 2004, 02:02:26 PM »


Guest can lurk around undetected correct?


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« Reply #86 on: February 04, 2004, 02:13:17 PM »

“Misery loves company” is one of the more popular sayings in the English language for a good reason – it is true.  Those who reject Jesus as God are lost.  There is no greater misery than the feeling of being lost.  Misguided logic whispers in the ear of a lost person “if you just have others there with you, you won’t be lost any longer”.  Wrong – still lost, only now they are “lost in a crowd”.

As always – sincere prayers are in order that Jesus will find all of his lost sheep, and that they may be returned to (or brought newly into) the flock.

Dearest Lord Jesus - it is our prayer that those who are lost may be found.  And if we may be, in any way possible, a tool for you to use in finding the lost soles and bringing them to Your truth, we ask that You use as accordingly.  Lord we love them as brothers and sisters in Your Holy Name.
Thank You, Lord, for hearing our prayers.  AMEN!
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« Reply #87 on: February 04, 2004, 03:03:30 PM »

         Part3 of my story I was telling you.

    OK listen, I had this point I was going to make right? Right, but in order to do so I wanted to tell you a "short" story of how i got to where I am. I started off trying to just tell the "short" story and then get to my "point". Well thats not working very well. Because I'm trying to make the story short I'm skipping some very important details. I've decided to change tactics and give you the "point" I started all this to make and then to go back to my story and give the details which I was leaving out to make the story short.

      The point of all this is nobody taught me what I believe. I found my beliefs in the Word of God, the Bible.
The Bible and the Holy Spirit are my teachers. I found the trinity and the FACT that Jesus was and is God from the Bible nowhere else! I don't need to study where other people found their beliefs to know where MY beliefs came from.

     Many of you know I believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church. Critics of this always refer to some scottish girl named Mary something as the founder of this theory. Not for me! I found the Pre-Tribulation Rapture in the Bible not from some little girl somewhere. I don't care where others say the viewpoint came from, I found it in the Bible! All my beliefs came from the Bible, not some teacher, website, or Church somewhere. I believe everything God wants me to know can be found in the Bible! I don't need to study greek or latin or Church history or anything else. God provided His truth for all of us in the Bible.

     I have studied world history to see if it supports Biblical prophecy when I was coming to faith and history Proved the Bible true to me but I never studied the origin of Biblical doctrines once I became convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that the Bible was 100% truth. Once I established the "FACT" that the Bible was and is in FACT the written Word of God everything else I believe has been tested by the Bible. If the Bible condradicts something, the Bible which has undeniably proved itself to be the truth to me, must be believed over anything that goes against it.

     People may think they know the reason we believe what we believe, and may think we must have been taught these things in Church or in books or by some teacher but I myself was taught my beliefs by the Word of God and the Holy Spirit which has led me to the truth.

   Why do I believe Jesus is God? because the Bible says so.

    Theres my long winded point. Don't presume to tell me where my beliefs came from, you don't know for a fact, but I know me and I'm telling you the answer. Some people may be programmed into their beliefs by someone but I was not. I went in search of truth and found the truth in the Bible.


     That was the point I took so long to make. Some of you maybe interested in hearing the rest of the story I was telling and for those of you interested, I'll finish the story with the details I left out while hurrying to make my point. I'll go back to my story in my next post.

                                                  Paul2

     
« Last Edit: February 04, 2004, 03:08:28 PM by Paul2 » Logged

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« Reply #88 on: February 04, 2004, 04:02:24 PM »

     DannyB,

     I'm not afraid to debate you but when I debate a Biblical topic, I stick to the BIBLE. I'm not a language scholar and have no way of knowing whether you are either. I don't trust you, why should I? If the Bible alone by itself backs your position I'd believe you, but you need outside material to make your case. The Bible alone isn't good enough of a source for you and your theory. You and KittiK need to search outside the Bible to make your claims because the Word of God alone isn't enough.

    We are not "ganging up on you" because we all agree with each other on everything. We are defending what the Bible teaches about Jesus and the FACT the Bible teaches Jesus is God. When a debate is a Salvation issue we are a intense group to debate.

     People who seem to you as my allies, will quickly challenge and debate me on the subject of the Rapture of the Church. Reba, who agrees with my view on Jesus being God will be the first to tell you that I'm wrong about the Rapture. Whats the difference? The Rapture is a debatable topic that does not have Salvation in the balance of the belief. We argue with each other, sometimes heatedly, but we are still brothers and sisters in Christ and we agree on the essentials of Salvation.

     We debate each other constantly over theories and view points and an outsider may get the impression we don't like each other. When it comes to Salvation issues however, people I often debate will back me up if I speak the truth and the people I often consider to be wrong on some topic, I will freely admit are correct on others.

     If I had a dollar for every time Reba disagrees with me I'd be a rich man, but today on this issue of Jesus being God we agree with each other. So don't go thinking this is some club of like minded people, we are not. Each of us has our own opinions and sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't.

     I don't dislike people who don't agree with me, I try to convince them and if that doesn't work I pray for them and if that doesn't work I agree to disagree with them.

     Just because I disagree with someone on a certain subject doesn't mean I don't think they have something valueable to teach. I've read some AWESOME posts by people who disagree with me on many things.

    I'm protective of the people who visit here. I know many people stop by and read these posts but never post themselves. I keep in mind those visiting here with every post I write.

     I'm a WARRIOR when it comes to Salvation issues. I don't want Satan taking anyone to the Lake of Fire with him. Your not my enemy, your doctrine is my enemy if it effects Salvation. Its never personal, its doctrinal. I don't think people intentionally mislead others astray. I don't think they do it on purpose, if I did believe they did on purpose, they would become my personal enemy.

     You can run away if you want but many see that as a sign of weakness. I've answered many posts I didn't feel like answering because I know those who read them will think I CAN'T answer instead of realizing I just wasn't in the mood at the time. This isn't a "game" to me, its a war fought for the souls of men and women. I debate about Nascar for fun, with something like that its just opinions and doesn't really matter, but with Salvation the stakes are High.

     Think about this: We can change the eternal destiny of those who read our words here. Thats an incredible responcibility, and surely must have consequences for those who decide to engage. The Bible says not many of you should be teachers because teachers will be judged more severely.

     I use humor alot in my writings to make my posts entertaining, but I'm very careful not to mislead. I don't want to be responcible for misleading someone and doing more harm than good.

    If you want to run away thats ok but I will take that as a victory. You couldn't win by just using the Bible, and I won't allow myself to be mislead away from it.

   You can "SPIN" all you want but the people reading these posts can see it and I'm making sure of that. Not many people have ever looked out for me but thats never stopped me from looking out for them, which is what I'm doing.

    Once again, Who's looking out for you? Paul2 thats who!

                                                       Paul2
« Last Edit: February 04, 2004, 04:09:27 PM by Paul2 » Logged

Paul2
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« Reply #89 on: February 04, 2004, 05:20:40 PM »

     Part4 of my story.

    Ok. I left off in 1990 when I decided to read the Bible. Well theres one more thing you need to know right now. In 1990 Saddam's Iraqi army rolled over the border into Kuwait, remember? Of course you do. Well I was watching C.N.N. (before Fox news channel was born) and CNN had a war theme song after every commercial (BOOM, ba,ba,ba, BOOM, ba,ba,ba, BOOM, ba,ba,ba, BOOM) and then the report from the Gulf came on. Behind the News reporter was a black cloud of billowing smoke from the oil fires and in front of the fires was an army of men wearing gas masks. The reporter said " Day has turned to night in Kuwait, as the smoke from the oil fires has blocked out the suns rays blanketing Kuwait in smoke and darkness."

    Something about this scene seemed familiar. I had been reading Revelation and chapter 9 came into my mind.

Revelation 9:2  "And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."

     Wow, that sounds like whats going on in Kuwait I thought, so I got out my Bible and looked at Revelation chapter 9.

Revelation 9:3  "And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power."

    Locust? that army of guys wearing those gas masks look like grasshoppers sort of... could this be ...hum...

   I went back to reading the Bible and about a month later the war began. We drove Saddams army out of Kuwait.

Revelation 9:10: "And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months."

      5 Months! Saddam took Kuwait in August, September was 1 month, October was 2 months, November 3 months, December 4 months, January 5 months! January was 5 months! Hey was this what John saw? It seemed to fit but there was big problem. Nothing in the first 8 chapters of Revelation had happened yet. Whats going on here... better go back to reading the whole book. I needed to understand how all this fit together.

      So I read the Old Testament, didn't understand many things but the story was interesting sometimes. I skipped the Psalms and Proverbs (poetry I thought) and then I got to the prophets. Prophecy! hey, this is cool, I don't understand it really but it seems interesting just the same. Then I came to DANIEL... Wow, this is awesome. It uses symbols like Revelation and explains alot of what these symbols mean. This was great. Then I found it, just what I'd been looking for. The seven headed dragon with ten horns, here it was. I was now getting somewhere, I was getting close now.

      I didn't understand yet but now I knew that the symbol were used in different places and expected that as I read on I'd surely find more details and then I'd be wise enough to understand.

   
     I came to the end of the Old Testament. Matthew was next, and guess what? Matthew was about Jesus. I was wondering where Jesus was all through the Old Testament and now I knew He wasn't in the Old Testament (or so I then thought.)

    Matthew was awesome, it told prophecy about the future, I was getting close now. Then I came to Mark...whats the deal with this I thought. Its the same story, a little different but not much, oh well, I'll read it. Next came Luke... what? again, this is just like the other 2, some more stories and "stuff" but it seemed the same. Then John... Whats going on? Is every book in the new testament going to repeat the same story over and over? Sure each one had something new or a little different but why tell the same story 4 times.

     Then came Acts. Finally something new and different. Acts was cool, it told me what happened after Jesus died and was raised and went to Heaven. Then I was introduced to Paul, I then realized that my name Paul had come from this man Saul of Taurus, and that everyone named Paul was really named after him. I thought, this guy must be important if people named their kids after him.

    By now Saddam was back in Iraq, the war was over and everything was back to normal. Well almost everything, not me, I was walking around with a Bible. I'd go and hang out with my friends and when ever I got bored I'd break out the Bible and start to read. This Book was interesting alright but was it the truth. If this book was the truth then my friends needed to know this stuff. It interested me either way, fact or fiction but if this book was in fact the TRUTH that would change everything.

       To be continued......
                                                           Paul2
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