Being Forgiven.

[Soldier4Christ]

I think I'm getting dizzzzyyyyy.......


I must agree with whoever it was that said to receive forgiveness you must first repent. Without repentance there is no true and complete forgiveness. This is God's way and we are to follow in His footsteps. Personally, for self edification, I try to forgive even those that do not repent.

[cris]

I think I'm getting dizzzzyyyyy.......


I must agree with whoever it was that said to receive forgiveness you must first repent. Without repentance there is no true and complete forgiveness. This is God's way and we are to follow in His footsteps. Personally, for self edification, I try to forgive even those that do not repent.

Me too!  I got dizzy a long time ago.  You are talking on this earth, brother to brother, aren't ya PR?

[cris]

BTW - thanks for the prayers and the email was a blessing to come home to! (You knew that.)  

You are welcome.  I hoped it would be a blessing.  No, I didn't KNOW that ......................only hoped.  How would I know unless I was told?

[Soldier4Christ]

I think I'm getting dizzzzyyyyy.......


I must agree with whoever it was that said to receive forgiveness you must first repent. Without repentance there is no true and complete forgiveness. This is God's way and we are to follow in His footsteps. Personally, for self edification, I try to forgive even those that do not repent.

Me too!  I got dizzy a long time ago.  You are talking on this earth, brother to brother, aren't ya PR?

I hope so....I think.....

[Reba]

Yes, Jesus loves every person BUT He does not forgive every person unless they ask.  Then He is merciful and gracious enough to do so, IF the person repents.

I don't find Jesus forgiving His beaters as they beat Him along the way.  Jesus did not forgive them AS they crucified Him.  It was only AFTERWARD (the action had stopped) that He asked His Father to forgive them BECAUSE they didn't KNOW what they were doing.  A person who keeps hitting me knows what they're doing.

Rev 13:8
 ......the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

Jesus was slain long before He took the sins of the world to the Cross. His whole life and death is of forgivness. We just try to forgive and forgiving does not mean the person forgiven does not need to follow through the responseiblty of his/her  (tehe) actions. Loaned  money should be repayed. Bad guys like ted bundy should have the fullness of justice ,as he did. Forgivness does mean be stupid.

Not all folks are our brothers some are of their father. Jesus said...

John 8:44-47

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
KJV

[Soldier4Christ]

Mar 11:25  And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26  But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.


Luk 6:35  But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Luk 6:36  Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Luk 6:37  Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
 

[cris]

Mar 11:25  And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26  But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.


Luk 6:35  But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Luk 6:36  Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Luk 6:37  Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
 

If we feel ought against our neighbor, then we have to repent of that before coming into His presence in prayer.  It very well could be that our neighbor has no idea we're holding a grudge against him.  This is quite different from when one sins against another deliberately. He must repent before being forgiven.

Being merciful and loving one's enemies doesn't have anything to do with the original question of whether one can be forgiven by another, without first repenting.

Maybe my posts haven't been real clear about this subject.  I really don't know.

 

[Soldier4Christ]

The problem we have here, I believe, is an understanding of forgive. There are two meanings of this word.

When I say that we should forgive all men of their trespasses toward us I am using forgive in the context of "ceasing to feel resentment toward". If we continue to feel resentment toward someone, then we are continuing to hate. We are commanded to love all. How can we love and hate someone at the same time?

When God forgives us our sins, then He is "granting relief for payment of". This is done on condition of accepting Him as our Saviour and repentance of our sins. Should we "grant relief of payment of" someone that is not repentant? I don't think that God requires us to do so nor do I think that we are given the power to do so.

[cris]

The problem we have here, I believe, is an understanding of forgive. There are two meanings of this word.

When I say that we should forgive all men of their trespasses toward us I am using forgive in the context of "ceasing to feel resentment toward". If we continue to feel resentment toward someone, then we are continuing to hate. We are commanded to love all. How can we love and hate someone at the same time?

When God forgives us our sins, then He is "granting relief for payment of". This is done on condition of accepting Him as our Saviour and repentance of our sins. Should we "grant relief of payment of" someone that is not repentant? I don't think that God requires us to do so nor do I think that we are given the power to do so.

I do believe we are on the same page PR.  It's late and I've been thinking far too much today.  Tends to make one tired at times.  I'm going to hit the hay.

Grace and peace,
cris

[ollie]

So, if I'm in a prison yard, do I forgive the person as they continue hitting me?

Did Jesus forgive those who were beating Him as He was being beaten, or would they have had to first ask Him for forgiveness?

Good example. Our Saviour forgave them right from the cross.

ollie

You are missing the point JN.  If Christ was not fulfilling prophecy by being crucified, then yes, they would have had to ask Him for forgiveness and would have had to repented of wanting to crucify Him.  Then, the crucifixion would not have taken place.

No, this is not a good example, I disagree.  No one is arguing about whether He forgave them from the cross.  We are discussing forgiving our brother IF he repents.


 

They would have had to have asked Him to forgive them, and would have had to have repented of wanting to crucify Him.

Is that sentence a little more readable?  I'm tired of thinking so I jumble up my sentences worse than I normally do.

The crucifiers thought they were within the law condemning a criminal. Thus the "they know not what they do".

Christ's requesting His Father to forgive the crucifiers is not an example of a brother forgiving a brother who repents, but rather of the Christ requesting forgiveness for who he will as he is the Christ and can do so, just as he took the thief to paradise with him. It is an example of requesting forgiveness of people doing what they think is lawful and not knowing the truth of the situation. One Roman soldier seemed to be remorsefull when he admitted that this was truly the son of God.

The beaters and the punishers knew they were beating and punishing, but thought they were within the law of God they lived under. They probably did not think of it as sin to be repented of or wrong doing that must be made right.

ollie

[cris]

AMEN!

I agree with you here Ollie.


Grace and peace,
cris

[Marco25]

WOW!!! This went alot more indepth then i really wanted but...hey whats the bords for.  

[ForHisGlory]

From my personal experience I will tell you this: Do not wait until some-one asks to be forgiven, forgive them completely the moment they wrong you, brother or not.
For 15 years I never forgave my Mother-in-law, which was also from my congregation. This unforgiveness grew and grew and later became such a stumbling block that I left the church and stopped to pray. She was not even aware that I felt wronged by her, and she did not ask forgiveness. But my bitterness grew and it took over my whole live, it influenced my relationship with my hubbie, my children and even my own mother.
One day while I was speaking to some-one I heard a clear voice saying to me: You are changing and are doing the same things you hate in your MIL. I stopped in mid sentence.
The following day a sister I grew up with in church phoned me, (we haven't spoken for 5 years) and asked if I wanted to go on a camp with her. I went and God showed me that I need to forgive. I need to let go of the wrong she did.

This is what I hope you remember. The biggest lesson I learned out of this is :
To forgive some-one is not for them, it is to make your own live better.
I have never felt more free and loved then now. My MIL still knows nothing. But I know and God knows.
Forgiveness changed MY live for ever.

[2nd Timothy]

That really touched my heart.  Thank you for sharing that- ForHisGlory


(p.s. welcome to CU)

[Soldier4Christ]

From my personal experience I will tell you this: Do not wait until some-one asks to be forgiven, forgive them completely the moment they wrong you, brother or not.
For 15 years I never forgave my Mother-in-law, which was also from my congregation. This unforgiveness grew and grew and later became such a stumbling block that I left the church and stopped to pray. She was not even aware that I felt wronged by her, and she did not ask forgiveness. But my bitterness grew and it took over my whole live, it influenced my relationship with my hubbie, my children and even my own mother.
One day while I was speaking to some-one I heard a clear voice saying to me: You are changing and are doing the same things you hate in your MIL. I stopped in mid sentence.
The following day a sister I grew up with in church phoned me, (we haven't spoken for 5 years) and asked if I wanted to go on a camp with her. I went and God showed me that I need to forgive. I need to let go of the wrong she did.

This is what I hope you remember. The biggest lesson I learned out of this is :
To forgive some-one is not for them, it is to make your own live better.
I have never felt more free and loved then now. My MIL still knows nothing. But I know and God knows.
Forgiveness changed MY live for ever.

Amen, ForHisGlory. Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing this with us. This is exactly what I was saying earlier.