Tongues

[Petro]

author Tibby

I explained this clearly, but he didn't undedrstand it this is why, he asked again the same Q....

Blessings,
Petro

There was nothing clear about it. Sorry, bro.

tibby,


See, thats all you needed to say, rather than going into your smoke blowing tirade, if you recall your answer was something to the affect of "fire from heaven", you never said

My explanantion was not clear to you.

bluelake didn't have a problem with my explanantion, and I suspect 3wells, didn't either, or perhaps he didn't care to comment, hewever, I am willing to have you understand it perfectly.

Let me see if I can put it in simpler terms.

You said:

At my church, we don’t speak in tongues in front of the Congregation. People are welcome to, but they know the rules, interpretation of tongues is clearly stated in the bible.

Well, it is only in this generation, that the catholic church, has some of its splintered groups, begining to claim gifts such as tongues, the mopther church never taught it nor claimed they were gifts for day useage.

But, lets talk about your church.

Since tongues is a subjective experience both to the one speaking and the one hearing, and the scripture states, that the one speaking in tongues's understanding is unfruitfull, together with verse 1 Cor 14:13, it is given to understand, that even the person speaking in tongues, needs to have his words spoken in tongues, interpreted to him, since he does not understand, what he has said, himself.

So, what I have said, is that the person speaking in tongues according to the scriptures, as a matter of course does not understand himself, what he has said, he himself is spiritually edified (1 Cor 14:4), but his understanding is unfruitfull, unless he interprets (notice, how that one that speaks in tongues, is only greater than one who prophecies unless he interprets, [1 Cor 14:5], this in itself opens this gift up to abuse, by those that want to be consider greater than all in the church), either way, tongues spoken in the church must be interpreted by someone or the one doing the speaking.

Now, here is how this gets interesting, and depending what the speaker does or says, is what can be understood by the hears to be of God, or not.

You said;

but they know the rules, interpretation of tongues is clearly stated in the bible.

This rule, is actually a Commandment of the Lord, so obedience to it is crucial and by this obedience or not, one will determine if this is a hoax, or not.

It is understood then, that if someone in the church wants to speak in tongues (which cannot be anything but pray, since it is not prophecying, because;  (.......... he that speaketh in an tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: [1 Cor 14:2], if it is prophecy, imediately you can know it is a hoax, because ...... he that prophesieth speaketh unto men ........, he must know if there is somone who can interpret.

Because, he can only speak unless someone interprets, now if he is able to intrepret then of course, he may proceed, and cannot be forbiden to speak.

Now let compare what is a prayer to God, as opposed to prophecy;

While it clear God spoke to men by prophets in times past, He does not speak to men this way any longer, and tongues is NOT prophecying, tongues is a man speaking to God.

So lets assume someone gets up in your church and speaks in tongues, the interpreter will interpret while this individual speaks, how do I know this?, you might asks,

because verses 16 and 17, it is given to understand that the hearers, will say Amen at the proper moment you bless with the spirit, notice carefully;

"Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall
he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?   For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

So what are we saying herein??

That the one who prays in tongues, while having his prayer interpreted, will bless (those hearers, with what he prays) with the spirit, and the ones present listening who are being blessed, will say Amen at thy giving of thanks to God.

For instance, here is what it should sound like.

1. Person praying in tongues: bn nlkj kd jkf;odl  kvflkv ;

2. Interterpreter:   Thank you father for this day and,

3. Congregation of listeners:  Amen..

1.  ; hhtt, yotmrn fl;soe sopdmwkm ksdkewo ow acaoedk..

2.  ; and we praise you for giving us our daily bread,

3   Praise the Lord, amen...

You may disagree with me, but this is the picture painted by these scriptures, of one praying in tongues in the church gathering, and having the prayer interpreted, and the reaction of the believers while being edified by the one speaking in tongues.

Now, having said this, if anyone gets up and begings his prayer speaking in tongues, with the following words:

Thus saith the Lord.......

Imediately you can know this is not for real, it is a HOAX, because he is bringing a message from God to man, and this is impossible because speaking in tongues is not man speaking to man in the form of prophesying, it is


"man speaking to God in the Spirit." (1 Cor 14:2)

I trust this clarified this matter for you.

Blessings,

Petro  

[Petro]

      Petro;
     I'm sorry that I aparently missunderstood your stand, the scripture are pro tongues though I myself do not have the gift. I have been told repeatedly that tongues were done away with, and not for today yet when pushed they have no scripture to stand on, yet many for tongues.

forrest

It is quite alright,

I myself do not have this gift, and neither do I care to possess it, as I believe it is a gift that can be easily abused and the one possessing it should be noble enough to understand it is not given to make oneself more than he is in the body, personally my opnion of those that exhibit it, outside the commandment, are not possessers of it, they deceive themselves and others with the antics.

The gifts are all given as it suits the Holy Spirit, though there appears to be an allowance for believers that possess it, to be enabled to interpret it.

But I believe the responsibility that comes with the gift, is such, that one better know he is playing with fire by misusing their gifts, in either case it is clear the gifts are given for edification of the body.

This one edifies both the one possessing it and the body of Christ .

Only one who is ignorant of this would use this gift to mnake himself greater than his brother, who does not have the particular gift.

Blessings,

Petro

[Tibby]

Yeah…

Anyways, thanks for your answer, Petro, and everyone else.

[Petro]

Yeah…

Anyways, thanks for your answer, Petro, and everyone else.

tibby,

Now I left this last tid bit out to see, how you received what I wrote, I'll give it you anyhow, even though you don't seem interested.

If the man, is able to interpret his own prayer, then he will speak NOT in tongues as Paul says, but will speak with his own understanding, which means he will speak in the normal language, understood by the church.

So there won't be any reason to go thruogh this excersize of praying in a tongue, and then interpreting it, unless of course the person speaking wanted to put on a show.

It wouldn't make sense to pray to interpret ones own prayer in tongues, and then speak or pray in an unknown language, then interpret.

The whole point of the manifestation of the gift is that the church be edified.

Blessings,

Petro

[Petro]

So if you hear someone speaking in gibberish, then start inperpreting himself , your ears and eyebrows should rise up together, because something don't sound right.


Blessings,
Petro

[Tibby]

Not, it isn't that I’m uninterested, just distracted, being is end of semester and all. I'm taking it all in, don't worry.   and thanks for the clarification.

[bluelake]

At Pentecost God sent his Holy Spirit into the world. In the book of Acts it was done to astonish the people, which it did.
This sign was later given to the Gentiles and Samaritans.
Today we have the Bible to guide us . The Bible tells us that God gives us his gifts as he choses. I believe people receive Gods gifts today. I also believe that speaking in tongues can be faked. Who is the loser in this case.
I am sceptical about prophecy. Prophecy must glorify God to be real and it must also come true. I also feel that interpreting
tongues are questionable. I have heard this done and the answer was in relation to the scripture that was read earlier. It just didn't ring true. I prayed about this and I didn't feel any different about it as I recall.  I don't like to judge another persons walk. I'm still learning, so maybe the Lord will clear it up for me.  

God bless,
bluelake

[Petro]

bluelake,

There are two aspects of prophecy, of which one is no longer in view, and that is, that of prophecying the future, the scriptures are clear, God has spoken to us in these las days, by His Son, and;

Heb 2
1  Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2  For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward;
3  How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

So while prophecy concerning the future has ceased, in a sense it really has not, when one preaches or shares  the gospel to/with an individual, in effect they are share about their eternal destiny, concerning their future.

So, you can see that prophecy in a sense has not been totally been done away with, and won't while the Gospel is preached on the earth, since it is inherent in it. (the Gospel), so tonhues may not have ceased , since men pray to God in the spirit every day, I say this because;

Paul says at;

Rom 8
26  Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.


If this is not praying to God in the spirit, then I guess I don't what is..


Blessings,
Petro

[bluelake]

bluelake,

There are two aspects of prophecy, of which one is no longer in view, and that is, that of prophecying the future, the scriptures are clear, God has spoken to us in these las days, by His Son, and;

Heb 2
1  Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2  For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward;
3  How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

So while prophecy concerning the future has ceased, in a sense it really has not, when one preaches or shares  the gospel to/with an individual, in effect they are share about their eternal destiny, concerning their future.

So, you can see that prophecy in a sense has not been totally been done away with, and won't while the Gospel is preached on the earth, since it is inherent in it. (the Gospel), so tonhues may not have ceased , since men pray to God in the spirit every day, I say this because;

Paul says at;

Rom 8
26  Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.


If this is not praying to God in the spirit, then I guess I don't what is..


Blessings,
Petro

Tongues can certainly be a controversial topic. Tongues will never replace 'Grace.'
The Bible tells us that all the people in the book of Acts were believers, so tongues didn't save them as some folks believe. When the Holy Spirit fell on the disciples  they were not seeking, but waiting. All believers are filled with the Holy Spirit. (1Cor.12;13) This occurs when they accept Christ as their Savior.  
Prophecy is handled carelessly in some denominations. It is almost like fortune telling.
Another good example of deception is the Benny Hinn Show. God heals, not Hinn. But, that's another story.  

God bless,
bluelake

[Petro]

Amen,

Well, I can't see it clearly that tongues has ceased, nor that prophecy has failed, I know I am known by God, but I don't know as I am known.

So, I am simply not convinced, that the completion of the Bible, ended these.

I say, men are still able to pray in the prayer closet.

And as far as I am concerned since the scripture says;  

"forbid not to speak in tongues",

if it happens in a church setting exactly as the Lord commanded, then so be it, that Christians be edified.

In the mean time, anyone that gets the hankering to speak to God in the spirit, should do so, as the spirit moves, him,
but  stay in the closet...

"Forbid not to speak in tongues", means the closet or the church setting.

Blessings,
Petro

[Brother Love]

I started talking with my tongue last night

Brother Love

[Allinall]

I have a hard enough time interpreting what my wife says...now I'm supposed to have gift to interpret what she says?  NOW they tell me!  

[Brother Love]

I have a hard enough time interpreting what my wife says...now I'm supposed to have gift to interpret what she says?  NOW they tell me!  

ROFLOL and Barking like a dog

Brother Love

[Allinall]

When my wife reads this...I'm gonna be in biiiiiiiiiigtime trouble.  

[Brother Love]

When my wife reads this...I'm gonna be in biiiiiiiiiigtime trouble.  

I am sure

Brother Love