Tongues

[3wells]

Oh, and in case you plan on dumping "volumes" of anti-tongues propaganda into the thread then know this: everything not verified by scripture should be accompanied by a "this is only my view"- kind of comment. All the rest will be automatically classified as garbage.

Any takers?

[Petro]

I'd just like to point out that there is a very substantial charismatic movement within the Catholic Church.

This in itself should be enough to cause the bulb light up the aluminum thinking caps of charismatiacs, especially those are not catholics..

Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Cor 11:14-15)





Blessing,
Petro

[Tibby]

What about for those of us who are Catholics, but still want proof against tongues? I know you HAVE to have a few verses stashed away, Petro! The body of this message is 5 lines of text, your holding back on us, aren’t you?

[bluelake]

Millions of people are Catholic. I’m even willing to bet there are more Catholics, of every rite, then there are anti-tongues guys in the world. So… Catholicism is the way, right?

Honestly, bro, I really would like something more solid then what you gave. It is good supporting evidence, but it has no foundation. A Charismatic would even fall for that ;-)

Yes, Goosebump religions has MANY problems. The two main ones, I think, with Charismatics are:

A. They are independent, meaning they are accountable to no man. Each pastor is his own little Pope, in charge of his flock.

B. The can’t tell the different between emotion and God. Yeah, the “spirit of God” most people calm to feel is the same thing I feel with I get really excited about a car or the way I feel after a good work-out.

Because of these things, the turn “moves of God” into “movements.” There are reasons why Manna only lasted a day, people! But, just because they tend to overdo things (WAY overdo things) doesn’t make what they do any less valid. Tongues, I do take issue with.
Holy laughter, holy crap!
Slain in the spirit, the last thing “the spirit” wants to so “slain” us.
I say, keep tongues for your prayer life. I say, if your going to laugh, go to the bathroom, and don’t disrupt the service. I say don’t use “catchers,” if they are truly “slain” I’m sure God will protect them.

The Charismatic have forgotten the meaning of the word “service.” They spend to much time with a “me, me, me” attitude. Lets try the “Charismatic gifting” in a proper setting, and I believe we would see GREAT different.

End rant.

[bluelake]

Hi Tibby,
I'm new on the forum.  
I don't think that there are scriptures that tell us not to speak in tongues, but in the early church, there are several that tell us that they did speak in tongues. It was a sign to the unbelievers. (Acts  2:1-13, 10:43-48,19:1-6)
Some churches today teach that speaking in tongues is required to prove that a person has been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
1Cor.12 and 14 go into detail about the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

God bless,
bluelake

[Petro]

tibby,

Hold back??  What do you want a sign??

...an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.


You say, you want proof against tongues??

Very simple, when and if, you hear, someone speaking in tongues in your church, and that person doing the speaking, or someone interpreting, claims it is a message from god to the people, that is not the manifestation of the gift of tongues.

If anyone excersizing the gift in a church gathering, not in accordance with the Lord's command, that is not a manifestation of the gift of tongues..

It is someone attempting to deceive others.

You don't need a college diploma to understand this is pure and simply,  deception at its root.

One simply needs to excercize his senses to discern, what is of God, and what isn't...  after all, unto us, it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of heaven.

Blessings,

Petro

[3wells]

I'm still waiting for the scriptures that prove that tongues are not for today...

[Petro]

I'm still waiting for the scriptures that prove that tongues are not for today...

You will be a long time waiting............


Petro

[3wells]

Not to worry, I won't be holding my breath until that day dawns.

But I did kind of expect someone to make a decent effort. All I have seen so far is people taking the opportunity to air their own opinions, and making judgmental remarks about how other people behave while worshipping God... same old, same old...

[Jabez]

First lets make it clear that there are two types of tongues spoken of in the Bible.
Xenoglossia: (a.k.a. Zenolalia, Xenoglossia) This is the miraculous ability to spontaneously speak a foreign language without first having learned it, or even been exposed to it.

Glossolalia: The Interpreter's One-Volume Commentary on the Bible defines glossolalia as: "the ecstatic utterance of emotionally agitated religious persons, consisting of a jumble of disjointed and largely unintelligible sounds. Those who speak in this way believe that they are moved directly by a divine spirit and their utterance is therefore quite spontaneous and unpremeditated." 3

There is in my opion no verses that say Tongues have ceased.Could someone tell me what in Jesus name is not possable?I do realize there are fakes,we agree on that,but to say spiritual gifts are no longer given to us is upsetting.

[Tibby]

tibby,

Hold back??  What do you want a sign??

...an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.


You say, you want proof against tongues??

Very simple, when and if, you hear, someone speaking in tongues in your church, and that person doing the speaking, or someone interpreting, claims it is a message from god to the people, that is not the manifestation of the gift of tongues.

If anyone excersizing the gift in a church gathering, not in accordance with the Lord's command, that is not a manifestation of the gift of tongues..

It is someone attempting to deceive others.

You don't need a college diploma to understand this is pure and simply,  deception at its root.

One simply needs to excercize his senses to discern, what is of God, and what isn't...  after all, unto us, it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of heaven.

Blessings,

Petro

I am asking for a scripture verse. Not fire from Heaven.

But I guess your right, Petro. As a Catholic, I see what you are saying, I can understand how verse have implied meaning, and how things don’t need the bible saying it to be true. As you point out, we do this all the time. Now I understand it better. Sola Scriptoria only counts on the parts that we like, right?  

[bluelake]

First lets make it clear that there are two types of tongues spoken of in the Bible.
Xenoglossia: (a.k.a. Zenolalia, Xenoglossia) This is the miraculous ability to spontaneously speak a foreign language without first having learned it, or even been exposed to it.

Glossolalia: The Interpreter's One-Volume Commentary on the Bible defines glossolalia as: "the ecstatic utterance of emotionally agitated religious persons, consisting of a jumble of disjointed and largely unintelligible sounds. Those who speak in this way believe that they are moved directly by a divine spirit and their utterance is therefore quite spontaneous and unpremeditated." 3

There is in my opion no verses that say Tongues have ceased.Could someone tell me what in Jesus name is not possable?I do realize there are fakes,we agree on that,but to say spiritual gifts are no longer given to us is upsetting.

[bluelake]

First lets make it clear that there are two types of tongues spoken of in the Bible.
Xenoglossia: (a.k.a. Zenolalia, Xenoglossia) This is the miraculous ability to spontaneously speak a foreign language without first having learned it, or even been exposed to it.

Glossolalia: The Interpreter's One-Volume Commentary on the Bible defines glossolalia as: "the ecstatic utterance of emotionally agitated religious persons, consisting of a jumble of disjointed and largely unintelligible sounds. Those who speak in this way believe that they are moved directly by a divine spirit and their utterance is therefore quite spontaneous and unpremeditated." 3

There is in my opion no verses that say Tongues have ceased.Could someone tell me what in Jesus name is not possable?I do realize there are fakes,we agree on that,but to say spiritual gifts are no longer given to us is upsetting.

Jabez,
I agree. In the book of Acts, chap.2 they did speak in known languages. I haven't heard of this occuring today. Most people who have the gift of tongues speak in glossolalia. If this action is interpreted, it would have to be through the Holy Spirit as I understand the meaning.

1Cor.14;4-5 "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater, unless he interprets so that the church may be edified."

God bless,
bluelake.

[Petro]

tibby,

Hold back??  What do you want a sign??

...an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.


You say, you want proof against tongues??

Very simple, when and if, you hear, someone speaking in tongues in your church, and that person doing the speaking, or someone interpreting, claims it is a message from god to the people, that is not the manifestation of the gift of tongues.

If anyone excersizing the gift in a church gathering, not in accordance with the Lord's command, that is not a manifestation of the gift of tongues..

It is someone attempting to deceive others.

You don't need a college diploma to understand this is pure and simply,  deception at its root.

One simply needs to excercize his senses to discern, what is of God, and what isn't...  after all, unto us, it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of heaven.

Blessings,

Petro

I am asking for a scripture verse. Not fire from Heaven.

But I guess your right, Petro. As a Catholic, I see what you are saying, I can understand how verse have implied meaning, and how things don’t need the bible saying it to be true. As you point out, we do this all the time. Now I understand it better. Sola Scriptoria only counts on the parts that we like, right?  

tibby,

You wouldn't recognize fire from heaven if you saw it.

You are begining to sound like the john the baptist, rambling and not saying anything.

Are you asking a question, or making a point??

In order to understand what I stated, you must understand what the scripture teaches concering tongues.

It is that simple.

Petro

[Petro]

First lets make it clear that there are two types of tongues spoken of in the Bible.
Xenoglossia: (a.k.a. Zenolalia, Xenoglossia) This is the miraculous ability to spontaneously speak a foreign language without first having learned it, or even been exposed to it.

Glossolalia: The Interpreter's One-Volume Commentary on the Bible defines glossolalia as: "the ecstatic utterance of emotionally agitated religious persons, consisting of a jumble of disjointed and largely unintelligible sounds. Those who speak in this way believe that they are moved directly by a divine spirit and their utterance is therefore quite spontaneous and unpremeditated." 3

There is in my opion no verses that say Tongues have ceased.Could someone tell me what in Jesus name is not possable?I do realize there are fakes,we agree on that,but to say spiritual gifts are no longer given to us is upsetting.

Jabez,
I agree. In the book of Acts, chap.2 they did speak in known languages. I haven't heard of this occuring today. Most people who have the gift of tongues speak in glossolalia. If this action is interpreted, it would have to be through the Holy Spirit as I understand the meaning.

No comment, as we are in agreement.

1Cor.14;4-5 "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater, unless he interprets so that the church may be edified."

God bless,
bluelake.

The person that speaks in a [unkown] tongue (1 Cor 14:1-4 ;
Glossolalia may edify himself, but his understanding is unfruitfull (vs 14) vs 14, is a clarafication of what Paul said at;

vs 2"howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries."

Paul, himself says, his own understanding is unfruitful when he prays in an unknown tongue, clearly teaching, that the man that speaks to God in the spirit, is praying to God,

{note; vs 15-16;

 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
  Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?)


, when languages were spoken on the day of pentecost no one asked for an interpreter, the scripture is clear everyone that heard the speaker/s heard in their own language.

However, there is nothing that discounts tongues spoken in the church to be anything but prayer in the spirit (vs 2), for sure it is not prophecying, since it (tongues) is not spoken to men (vs 3-4), but to God.

Now you can be sure that when this gift, if ever it be manifested, not in accordance with the Lords command, it is not of God.

Blessings,

Petro