How well do you know your Bible?

[Petro]

tibby,

That she is to be worshipped??

 you said;
I know what you THINK you the Catholics believe, but no one “worships” Mary. No.

I understand why you are running to and fro, you don't even understand this is an official teaching of the Catholic church, have you ever read the Glories of Mary by St.
Ligouri,

 http://praiseofglory.com/redemptorist/gloriesbilly.htm

His writings are considered infallible, by this Roman Catholic saint, he writes of her, that she is not only an Advocate and Mediator, but actually teaches that shge is more merciful than our blessed Lord Himself;

"He who is under the protection of Mary will be saved; he who is not will be lost.............O immaculate Virgin, we are under thy protection, and therfore we have recourse , to thee alone, and we beseech thee to prevent thy beloved Son, who is irritated by our sins, from abandoning us to the power of the devil.............Thou (Mary) art (emphasis mine) my only hope,...........Lady in heaven we have but one advocate, and is thyself, and thou alone art truly loving and solicitous for our salvation.........My queen and my Advocate with thy Son, whom I dare not approach..


In the Pope's Encyclical dtd 1891, as published in the Tablet, October 10, 1891 (quoted in The Claims of Rome, p.61)

"With equal truth may it be also affirmed that, by the will of God, Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure  of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ.  Thus no man goeth to the father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother."

Your answer shows me you don't know what your Catholic church's official teachings are, but that is great, I pray that you will consider these teachings and see if you can reconcile them to the Word of God.

Member by association, do you understand it now??

For sure you can believe the teachings of scripture, but what value is it to hold to teachings of church who teaches things that are not even found in scripture??

[quoter]tibby said;
I answered no to all. If I had answer yes, Catholics would consider me to be a cult member, not a Catholic. You do not know what I believe. You do not know what Catholics Believe. Stop kidding your self.

Well, thats great, I guess you just like the name catholic.

Let me asure you this doesn't make anyone a Christian either.

It is obvious to me, althought you do not like the "immaculate concepcion dogma" of Mary, you still believe in it..or have you not swallowed the pill.....am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. Sorry.

So the pill was hard to swallow, but you swallowed it anyhow??

So you believe in the immaculate conception, what about the Assumption of Mary proclaimed by pope pius XII in 1950?


Later,
Petro

[Petro]

Someone didn't think about what they were writing:

ebia,

yea, you didn't think, RCC priest are married to the church, and nuns to the pope, eeh!! The pope is Christ veiled in the flesh, according to official church teaching,

"The pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ Himself , hidden under the veil of the flesh.  Does the pope speak?  It is Jesus Christ that speaks .  Does the pope accord a favor or pronounce an anathema?  It is Jesus Christ who pronounces the anathema or accords the favor. (Protestant Alliance Magazine, March 1922)

Ref: "Heresies Exposed" p.141, Roman Catholicism compiled by Wm C Irvine and introduction by Louis T. Talbot,
Loizeaux Brother, Bible Truth Depot 19 West 21st Street, New York, 10, N.Y.

I bet tibby didn't know this either??

That you must receive the seven sacraments in order to be saved??

That would mean only married priests were saved.  

That you must receive the seven sacraments in order to be saved??

That would mean only married priests were saved.  

listen, ole girl...

Nevetheless this is what the church teaches,

The Roman Catholic church teaches one must receive the seven sacraments in order to go to heaven, it begins with  "baptism" and ends"extreme unction or  holy unction", which is the final blessing delivered by a priest to a terminally ill or dieing person, hopefully prior to death, and one still goes to purgatory, one wonders what the difference is since, even when one dies in sin, without receiving this the church still considers the soul of the departed to go to purgatory, where je can have his sins expiated.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05716a.htm

More learnin will make you smert...........or smart, maybe.

You see, I was born and raised as a devout roman catholic, praise God He brought me out of this house of bondage.

Petro

[Petro]

Someone didn't think about what they were writing:

ebia,

yea, you didn't think, RCC priest are married to the church, and nuns to the pope, eeh!! The pope is Christ veiled in the flesh, according to official church teaching,

"The pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ Himself , hidden under the veil of the flesh.  Does the pope speak?  It is Jesus Christ that speaks .  Does the pope accord a favor or pronounce an anathema?  It is Jesus Christ who pronounces the anathema or accords the favor. (Protestant Alliance Magazine, March 1922)

Ref: "Heresies Exposed" p.141, Roman Catholicism compiled by Wm C Irvine and introduction by Louis T. Talbot,
Loizeaux Brother, Bible Truth Depot 19 West 21st Street, New York, 10, N.Y.

I bet tibby didn't know this either??

That you must receive the seven sacraments in order to be saved??

That would mean only married priests were saved.  

That you must receive the seven sacraments in order to be saved??

That would mean only married priests were saved.  

listen, ole girl...

Nevetheless this is what the church teaches,

The Roman Catholic church teaches one must receive the seven sacraments in order to go to heaven, it begins with  "baptism" and ends"extreme unction or  holy unction", which is the final blessing delivered by a priest to a terminally ill or dieing person, hopefully prior to death, and one still goes to purgatory, one wonders what the difference is since, even when one dies in sin, without receiving this the church still considers the soul of the departed to go to purgatory, where he can have his sins expiated.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05716a.htm

More learnin will make you smert...........or smart, maybe.

You see, I was born and raised as a devout roman catholic, praise God He brought me out of this house of bondage.

Petro

[ebia]

yea, you didn't think, RCC priest are married to the church, and nuns to the pope, eeh!!

wrong and wrong.  Priests aren't married to anyone (normally) otherwise it would not be possible to have married priests (unusual in the RCC, but they do exist).  Nuns are, of course brides of Christ (as are monks I believe) but Nuns aren't ordained.

The pope is Christ veiled in the flesh, according to official church teaching,

No, the Pope is the vicar of Christ.  That is, he stands in place of Christ.  (Personally, I don't think he is that either - thats one of the reasons I'm not Catholic, but that's by-the-by)

"The pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ Himself , hidden under the veil of the flesh.  Does the pope speak?  It is Jesus Christ that speaks .  Does the pope accord a favor or pronounce an anathema?  It is Jesus Christ who pronounces the anathema or accords the favor. (Protestant Alliance Magazine, March 1922)

That well known Catholic publication.

I bet tibby didn't know this either??

Why should Tibby want to know untrue things?  

That you must receive the seven sacraments in order to be saved??

That would mean only married priests were saved.  

That you must receive the seven sacraments in order to be saved??

That would mean only married priests were saved.  

listen, ole girl...

Nevetheless this is what the church teaches,

I was having a laugh.  The short phrase you gave out of context clearly implies you have to go through all 7, which is clearly untrue.  Hardly anyone will experience all seven.
One should normally expect to go through at least three (baptism, confirmation and communion), maybe more.  Even those three are normative but not necessary.

You see, I was born and raised as a devout roman catholic, praise God He brought me out of this house of bondage.

Lots of Catholics are taught garbage, and lots are taught simplified versions of the official church teachings.  After all, any normal person couldn't wade through all the teachings of the RCC in a lifetime.  But just because you were taught the norm as though it was the rule, doesn't make it so.

[Petro]

ebia,

You'd argue with a possum........

Petro

[ebia]

ebia,

You'd argue with a possum........

Am I?  That would explain a lot.

[Tibby]

If you want to waste my time like this, Petro, I can I leave this thread. Stop repeating the same garbage all over again. You have no idea what it is to be Catholic, yet you attack them like you know more about Catholics then the Pope. The Mary doesn’t make the Catholics, millions of Catholics all over the world show a strong distaste for the RCC Mary Doctrines. If you spent more like researching nad less time needlessly bashing, you might already know this.

Whither I say I’m for or against the Mary Doctrine, you attack me. When you assume I’m for it, you attack me. Now that I have explained to you that I feel the same way you do about the Mary Doctrine, you are STILL attacking me for my stand on the Mary Doctrine! What the devil is a matter with you? It doesn’t matter to you what I believe, you are going to attack me regardless because I use the word “catholic” to describe what I believe!

[Heidi]

I guess i don't know why you're so defensive of the catholic church, Tibby and Ebia. There are things wrong with all denominations. The important thing is that no one can correct what's wrong if it's not admitted. You sound as if your very life is in the hands of the Catholics. I tend to be suspicious of such a strong attachment as yours.

[ebia]

I guess i don't know why you're so defensive of the catholic church, Tibby and Ebia. There are things wrong with all denominations. The important thing is that no one can correct what's wrong if it's not admitted.

Of course there are things wrong with all denominations. If I thought the RCC had everything right, I would join.

That doesn't mean I shouldn't defend it when the attacks are misguided or misinformed.

[Petro]

If you want to waste my time like this, Petro, I can I leave this thread. Stop repeating the same garbage all over again. You have no idea what it is to be Catholic, yet you attack them like you know more about Catholics then the Pope. The Mary doesn’t make the Catholics, millions of Catholics all over the world show a strong distaste for the RCC Mary Doctrines. If you spent more like researching nad less time needlessly bashing, you might already know this.

Whither I say I’m for or against the Mary Doctrine, you attack me. When you assume I’m for it, you attack me. Now that I have explained to you that I feel the same way you do about the Mary Doctrine, you are STILL attacking me for my stand on the Mary Doctrine! What the devil is a matter with you? It doesn’t matter to you what I believe, you are going to attack me regardless because I use the word “catholic” to describe what I believe!

tibby,

Hoew could you believe the same thing I believe about Mary;

I asked you;

It is obvious to me, althought you do not like the "immaculate concepcion dogma" of Mary, you still believe in it..or have you not swallowed the pill.....am I wrong?

you answered;

Yes, you are wrong. Sorry.

Meaning yes you swallowed the pill, or yes I am wrong about you do not like the immaculate conception dogma??

You still left me with the impression, although you don't like the doctrine, you accept it as infallible teaching of the pope?

And beside you never answered what convergence catholicism is??

If you don't want to talk about it thats fine with me......cause if they are new teachings, I would have to ask more questions?   Like Who's new teachings and what is your authority??



Petro

[Petro]

I guess i don't know why you're so defensive of the catholic church, Tibby and Ebia. There are things wrong with all denominations. The important thing is that no one can correct what's wrong if it's not admitted.

Of course there are things wrong with all denominations. If I thought the RCC had everything right, I would join.

That doesn't mean I shouldn't defend it when the attacks are misguided or misinformed.

ebia,

You haven't defended anything, you simply have posted your own opinions, and feelings.

There is a difference?  Or don't you know this.

Give us facts not personal opinions, they are worthless, when making points, unless you can prove them.

 Am I?

A possum?...........maybe you are. Only you know.

Petro

[Tibby]

Heidi- How would you feal if I everyone started saying you believe Bill Clinton was the 3rd Adam, we all honestly beleived that you did? I'm guessing you would not like it too much. That is why we are so defencive of Catholicism. Well, Edia just liek to debat,e as he said, But this is why I defend it.

Petro- No, I don't beleive in all the mary garbage. I haven't seen any solid Apologetics for it. Most of the logic behind it is flawed, and shallow. It would take a much stronger argument for me to buy into such a thing. Like maybe a verse of the bible saying "Mary was sinnless" for example.

I think this article, that I posted beofre, explains things much better then I ever could:

http://www.theceec.org/11convergence.html

The Convergance is just what it sounds like, the converging of  the streams of the Church. Maybe of the people who are in the movment found it like I did, while looking through information on the early Church. The Early Church had many elements to it, much of that has split into different streams, the rather young convergance movement is tryign to bring it all full circle. Is it of I God or of man? I'd say of God, and in my prayer life, I have heard nothing different. But this is still a young movement, only time will tell for sure. If it is of God, it will last, if not, I pray he tear it down soon, before any more are lead away from the truth. As for me, I beleive it is the work of God.

[Saved_4ever]

Why do you use the term catholic if you want nothing to do with Rome?

I and others have said this is what the RCC believes and you say no they don't.  Then you tell us you aren't a part of the RCC because you don't believe what they believe.  Make up your mind will you.

[Tibby]

I never said I want nothing to do with Rome. I like them in general, just a few things about them bother me, things that bother me enough for me to find somewhere to go. I very much like  Rom, Even if I didn’t, there are many breeds of Catholics, Romans are the most Centralized and therefore, the most well known, but by no means the only ones. Unlike “fair and balanced,” the term “catholic” isn’t copyrighted. A large majority of the people who follow the liturgy are Catholic.

They do not worship Mary like you think. They do, however, say she is sinless from the time she was born. This is not to be found in the bible nor the early church fathers. Not even the Philosopher saints like St. Aquinas and St. Augustine have much to say about it! And it is rare those two are silent on an issue. Normally, if it is an issue the Catholic Church has/will tackle with, they cover it. So, it is a pretty safe bet Mary is a waste of time and catechismic paper. I don’t agree with there Mary Doctrine, but I don’t agree with all of you it qualifies as “worship.” More of an adoration like that you would hold for a Relative who did something great.

I can still argue the truth on a issue and not be a member of the Church. I’m not roman catholic, but many of the things attacked are things I believe. Aside from Mary and the Pope, most all of it is what I believe, and as someone who believes, I can say some people have It all wrong.

If you will read over my posts, many time ,I make a distention between the RCC and Catholic.

I was sure I told you about all of this, Jason, didn’t I? I knew wasn’t Roman Catholic. I remember, when I first came on the board, I told both you and Petro. Remember, Petro ( think it was Petro) started ranting about me being an Independent Catholic, and I said No no, I’m CEC, no Independent Catholic. As I said, I’m not sure if it was Petro or someone else, but I know you where there, Jason.

[Heidi]

If people thought i believed that Bill Clinton ws the 3rd Adam, all I'd have to do is say that i certainly do not believe that and drop it. I have told the truth about my beliefs but i can't help what other people are going to think about it. People can only understand what they understand. I am only responsible for my words. What other people do with those words is contingent upon where they're coming from.

If you simply acknowledge that there are problems in the Ctholic church then you wouldn't be so bothered when other people believe the same. But if you don't see any problems in the Catholic church then I believe there's some idol worshipping going on.