How well do you know your Bible?

[notMichaelJackson]

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[Agur3046]

Dear Michael

       I saw your site, and i do have to say that it appears to be so at first glace.  However, ive been reading scripture for a while, and i just cant see your argument on that.  Genesis for example, why did God gave the apple in the first place - to make people stumble?  I really don't think so because it does not match his Charactor.
        If you want to go through these Bible-Controdictions with me, then that would be great on one condition - One at a time.  That means, we deal with one controdiction and once we are done with that, we move on to the next.  Does that sound good to you?

Agur

[Tibby]

lol, crazy show, bro. Agur, lighten up, bro, it is just a joke.

[Agur3046]

Dear Tibby,

       I went though this site, and frankly, i have enough experiene to know that these jokes are not jokes at all.  If it were a Christian site, it would have answers for each "Controdiction."  If it were a joke, it would not use harsh words "Wrong, You are going to Hell" if you choose what the auther considered wrong and display passages that indecate someting that we would not normally see jesus as Loving and forgiving.  There were about 12 questionaires, and at the end, there were no disclaimers but shows other sites that has the same sarcasim.
       I spoke and debated with atheists and agnostics (if time allows) for three years and I know the kinds of questions they asked.  Honestly, after looking at that site, how can anyone believe that such a site is a joke especially when it is dealing with verses that are the least understood on grounds of fairness?  And unless you are a skeptic trying to provoke a reaction, how can you not see that?  If you can point out where i missed a disclaimer, or aan indication that the auther meant no harm, I believe that this site is an attempt to discredit the Bible.

       Needless to say, this site in question did not act sincerely in their argument in my opinon; otherwise, shouldn't it have a moral for Fundamentalists to get their heads out of an oppresive faith?  It would have been an outreach but instead, it simply ridicules.

[Saved_4ever]

Needless to say, this site in question did not act sincerely in their argument in my opinon; otherwise, shouldn't it have a moral for Fundamentalists to get their heads out of an oppresive faith?  It would have been an outreach but instead, it simply ridicules.

What are you talking about here?

Tibby the site and it's uninformed questionaire where pretty offensive to me.  They didn't even post scripture but twisted and contorted words to discredit the bible.  It was pretty pathetic but I don't expect too much from the unknowing.

[Tibby]

Ofcourse they are uninformed answers! The guy is just messing around. If he was serous, he would find some simi-HARD fact that would dispute Christianity. All of that is fluff logic. You'd have to be pretty hard pressured for fact against Christian to actually be serous about that little slide show!

[Agur3046]

Dear Tibby,

       In my experience, the stuff he presented, is serious.  I go in chatrooms from time to time, and have dealt issues but particularly, Bible-Controdictions; the verse presented in that slide show, are the very same ones I had to deal with.  And I wasn't talking to happy people either, they were angry, upset, and cynical.  Unfortunatly, I have met also, those who deliberatly twist God's Word simply to win arguments.
       Since you were not offended, I'd like to know why you think it is the other way around because I think we either missed something or you have some explaining to do.  Unless you yourself is a skeptic, I can't see why you have such a loose opinion, especially when the site itself is making a strong statement against the Bible.

[Tibby]

Ok, maybe he isn’t joking. The site is still a joke. Take any Christian on this board through it point by point, and they can disprove it without a problem.

Either way, I’m a Catholic and a Charismatic in Baptist country. I’ve heard a lot worst then that. You want offensive? How about your brothers in Christ telling you that you’re a pagan, and when you explain you don’t “worship Mary” these people (who have never been in a Catholic Church once, mind you) say you do. Agur, I STAY offended!

[Agur3046]

Dear Tibby:

       I have a testamony to share with you about that.  It goes along with what you were saying about the other jokes to heard.
       What was told to you certainly wasn't jokes, thus im sorry that you had to hear them.  I grew up Catholic, and actually loved the Catholic Church before I was saved.  I loved praying to God, I urged my parents to take me to Confessions like what the saints do and I wanted one day to become a Franciscan Monk.  The reason why I came to love the Church is because of the Bible.  I began to read my mom's NIV and it changed my life, it made me want to go to Church, it inspired me to do good for other people, and prevented me from breaking the rules around me.  However, I was a little different.
       Since i grew up reading the Bible, I didn't do things that normal Catholics do such as praying to Mary (keep in mind, I didn't know much about that).  However, as I learned more and more about the RCC, I began to pray the rosary, I kept it in my pocket or around my neck (oops, not a necklace)!  During that time, I did knowtice something a bit off.  I remember that neither the apostles, nor the Christians in the Bible prayed to anyone except God.  I also noticed, that they weren't repeating their prayers either, and the fact that Mary wasn't really promenant in scripture - why is that?  With those things in mind, I felt discouraged.  This was the beginning of a turn.  
       As time went on, cult groups began to reach me.  One in particular, a JW, showed me the Bible, and my eyes are opening to the realization that the RCC is wrong.  After half a year, I got tired of them because thye seem arrogant so i left.  As a result, I became stronger and more defiant as a Catholic than ever before; I finally studied the RCC doctrine, I printed pages of Catholic Apologetics, and studied against the possible encounter of our protestant enemies.  I'm going to make sure that their laughter ends with me.  As I studied further, the Bible, of all the enemies I can think of became a thorn on my side.  I looked at verses used to defend the Church, I remembered the context around the verse.  When I looked into a verse that says, "suffer the little children to me," in order to defend Infant Baptism.  As I read, "Wait-a-minuite, thats not exactly right," the passage wasn;t really talking about that doctrine but merely Jesus permitting kids to come to him.  Needless to say, I was having a hard time.  Soon after, a cult-group followed a few years after; i was sucked into it (see: www.reveal.org about the ICoC).  Thankfully, my stay wasn't long thanks to a Rev. Steve, and an Ex-member named Susan.
       Now that I recieved Jesus into my life, I have peace I never felt while i was Catholic.  Not that the RCC has evil demons that I can sense, of course not, but this peace hasn't originated from my home Baptist church, RCC, or any religion, but this peace came from Jesus when He say:

24   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. - John 5:24

       I no longer repent because I have to (or else!), but because I WANT TO.  Now that's freedom!
       The problem with Religion is that in essence, you have to earn, work your way to Salvation; the RCC is no exception.  We can talk about Mary, the Saints, and all the rest, and those things are important too, but not as important as this.
       If you want to talk about Salvation with me, than I am more than willing to do it, I just want to share my testamony.  The reason the protestants and Evangelicals have a bit of a trouble with the RCC is because, the RCC doctrines are outside of Scripture, and it even controdicts.  You said that people say that RCC is Pagan; as a former Catholic, I know exactly what you are saying.  I'm not saying anything yet, but what if it is?  To know for sure, We have to search the scriptures.

Ps.  If you want to study with me on the RCC, then I will be happy to share some verses, and you can do that too, but we must go through them one-by-one.  Also, I think first, Salvation must be discussed but its up to you.

Agur

[Agur3046]

By the way Tibby, go ahead and look into other sites the maker has.  You will see things that are clearly insults than Jokes.

[Royo]

To Agur3046:
I really liked what you said about the Catholic Church.
After years of learning the real truth about that religion,
(which I would be happy to go into if someone wanted),
the one thing that God showed me that is important above all
the rest is: though this may be the most false religion on the face of the earth, the people who are in it are not the religion.
God hates all "religion", but He loves the people. And any who truly seek Him, He will guide to Himself.
Thank you again for your words.

[Tibby]

If you prayed to Mary, then you where not in the Catholic Church, but friend. You were either young and confused, or lied to. I’ve tried to protestant thing. You know what turned me off. What turned me off was when people said “Well, you know, I don’t believe in praying to marry” or “Well, you know, I don’t believe the pope is incapable of sin.” Guess what, me neither! If you are going to attack fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, at least have the respect enough to get your fact straight. Another thing that turned me off was how there aren’t may, if any, Catholic groups that attack Protestants like Chick Publication and Missions For Catholics. While the protestants are busy Bashing Catholics, most Catholics just ignore them and continue to do the work of the lord. When I start bashing Baptist, as I have a habit of doing with my young zeal, my Catholic Brethren will tell me I need to be gentle, they are still my brothers in Christ. I get that every time. If a Protestant starts bashing Catholics and mocking them and making jokes, the other protestants will cheer him on. Now, I don’t see how this is a Christian attitude.

These things are not what made me go Catholic. I’d be a fool to use the attitudes of a few zealous nuts sway my decision to change my Denomination, but let me tell you, when it came right down to it, these things do not help the Protestant case. Why are the protestants are more then willing to bash Catholic in large groups, and the Catholics, after taking this garage all there lives, kindly as me to be nice to my brothers in Christ. This greatly impresses me. If someone attacks us, our common reaction is to fight back, but they do not. They can twist fact against the Protestant church just as the Protestants do to them, but do they? No.

You where a young child when you left the RCC, like I was. You, like myself, didn’t fully understand how the Church worked. Most Grown men don’t understand how the Church is (Cardinal Law and Jack Chick to name two).

I have a testimony to share with you as well, my friend. I rejoined the Catholic Church because I started reading the writings of the early Church fathers. Everyone told me “no, no, they where all heretics” well, I figured, they compiled the bible, so if they were heretic, we have problems! As I read them, I began to understand WHY everyone told me they where “heretics.” Why? Because they followed that can best be described as Catholicism. No, the word and the definition wasn’t existent in those days, but they where more like the RCC then anything the protestants have and nearly everything the Catholics do is based on things done in those days. More protestant lies, more twisting of the facts to harm the Catholics.

[Agur3046]

Dear Tibby

       |'m sorry for the wait, my computer was down and I ahd school work to deal with.  
       I haven't been percecuted or ridiculed as a Catholic, but you have and for that, as a protestant, I apologize on the behalf of my church.  I do know what you mean by Protestants always on the offensive and Catholics on the defense.  My mom (a Catholic) tells me, "You guys always protests, so thats why you are all protestants."  Hard to prove that we are peace-lovers when we are the ones persuing but let me emphasis that word, Persue.
       Many I admit will bash Catholics and I had to rebuke one I remember.  However, there are those who do not have a spirit of hate in them and i think thats probably half of those who you met in yur lifetime.  the reason why we persue Catholics are two reasons - Bible and Salvation.  There are many problems that we see in RCC and among them you know already: Praying to Mary and the saints, Statue obessiance.  All those we don't see in Scripture and the Catholic Church teaches them.  So naturally, as believers in scripture, we do have to clear things up because one, they are errors anyways and two, God hates them (Titus 1:9).  The next Problem is more serious, here is why I'm persuing you.
       Believe it or not, there are only two ways to get saved in this world; one either by following the Law, or two by Faith Alone.  This immediately sets Biblical Judaism (completed in Christianity) apart from all Religions because all of them depends on the believers will to stay faithful.  Now how do you stay faithful?  Works: by good deeds and or by obedience to the Law.  God does justify the righteous but the problem is, they have to be perfectly righteous to enter the Kingdom.  Therefore, if they didn't obey or they sinned, they are separeted from God because of His Holiness and the deed they committed becomes a debt that has to be paid.  Now you as a former Protestant, if you really did believe (trust) in Jesus alone for your salvation, you are saved and still saved - i'll see you in heaven.  The problem is, you will be sharing the deadly error to everyone you share, even to convince other protestants that they too will spread poison.  
       You might say, "Don't Catholics believe in Jesus?"  Yes they do, and they are one of the only ones to believe in the Trinity.  The problem is did they really trust Jesus alone for their salvation?  They can follow Christ to death, but that's no different from all religions trying to make their way to God by the Law.  They might pray, "Jesus Save me," but they are the ones Saving themselves and not leaning on the finished work of Christ - His sacrifice for Sin.  Like all in religions, some will try to outweight their evil deeds by the good they do.  Sadly, they don't know that although they are doing everything right, it is their sin that is keeping them from God.  They will say, "God is forgiving."  The problem is, the sins still has to be paid for; God is forgiving, but like the Old Testament Saints, they will not reach God until their sins are paid for, so all they can do is to cover (Atone) it by sacrifices (OT Saints are saved by the way because they saw through the sacrifices and trusted God alone Psalms 16:10).  In consenquence, they never were saved because Sin has to be paid for.
     
I'm really sorry for the length of this work, but I want to inform you of it, not to justify Catholic bashing but to give you the reasons why we are the ones hunting.

agur  

[Agur3046]

       Sorry, I think the Word Atone, is for the saved.  I think Spiritually, when there is a sacrifice, the sinner is forgiven but the sin is paid for by a spottless Lamb or Goat.  However, a better sacrifice is a broken heart (Psalm 51).  
       Why Animal Sacrifices then?  They are done out of faith just as Abel has done.  If it were by works, Cain would have been justified because look at his heart, it showed by the works of his hand.  Abel however, simply had a burnt offering; nothing hard about it, not like Cains.  If you remember Adam and Eve how God killed an Animal to cover the couples nakedness, then wow, now thats Faith!

agur

[Tibby]

Dear Tibby

       |'m sorry for the wait, my computer was down and I ahd school work to deal with.  
       I haven't been percecuted or ridiculed as a Catholic, but you have and for that, as a protestant, I apologize on the behalf of my church.  I do know what you mean by Protestants always on the offensive and Catholics on the defense.  My mom (a Catholic) tells me, "You guys always protests, so thats why you are all protestants."  Hard to prove that we are peace-lovers when we are the ones persuing but let me emphasis that word, Persue.
       Many I admit will bash Catholics and I had to rebuke one I remember.  However, there are those who do not have a spirit of hate in them and i think thats probably half of those who you met in yur lifetime.  the reason why we persue Catholics are two reasons - Bible and Salvation.  There are many problems that we see in RCC and among them you know already: Praying to Mary and the saints, Statue obessiance.  All those we don't see in Scripture and the Catholic Church teaches them.  So naturally, as believers in scripture, we do have to clear things up because one, they are errors anyways and two, God hates them (Titus 1:9).  The next Problem is more serious, here is why I'm persuing you.
       Believe it or not, there are only two ways to get saved in this world; one either by following the Law, or two by Faith Alone.  This immediately sets Biblical Judaism (completed in Christianity) apart from all Religions because all of them depends on the believers will to stay faithful.  Now how do you stay faithful?  Works: by good deeds and or by obedience to the Law.  God does justify the righteous but the problem is, they have to be perfectly righteous to enter the Kingdom.  Therefore, if they didn't obey or they sinned, they are separeted from God because of His Holiness and the deed they committed becomes a debt that has to be paid.  Now you as a former Protestant, if you really did believe (trust) in Jesus alone for your salvation, you are saved and still saved - i'll see you in heaven.  The problem is, you will be sharing the deadly error to everyone you share, even to convince other protestants that they too will spread poison.  
       You might say, "Don't Catholics believe in Jesus?"  Yes they do, and they are one of the only ones to believe in the Trinity.  The problem is did they really trust Jesus alone for their salvation?  They can follow Christ to death, but that's no different from all religions trying to make their way to God by the Law.  They might pray, "Jesus Save me," but they are the ones Saving themselves and not leaning on the finished work of Christ - His sacrifice for Sin.  Like all in religions, some will try to outweight their evil deeds by the good they do.  Sadly, they don't know that although they are doing everything right, it is their sin that is keeping them from God.  They will say, "God is forgiving."  The problem is, the sins still has to be paid for; God is forgiving, but like the Old Testament Saints, they will not reach God until their sins are paid for, so all they can do is to cover (Atone) it by sacrifices (OT Saints are saved by the way because they saw through the sacrifices and trusted God alone Psalms 16:10).  In consenquence, they never were saved because Sin has to be paid for.
     
I'm really sorry for the length of this work, but I want to inform you of it, not to justify Catholic bashing but to give you the reasons why we are the ones hunting.

agur  

      Sorry, I think the Word Atone, is for the saved.  I think Spiritually, when there is a sacrifice, the sinner is forgiven but the sin is paid for by a spottless Lamb or Goat.  However, a better sacrifice is a broken heart (Psalm 51).  
       Why Animal Sacrifices then?  They are done out of faith just as Abel has done.  If it were by works, Cain would have been justified because look at his heart, it showed by the works of his hand.  Abel however, simply had a burnt offering; nothing hard about it, not like Cains.  If you remember Adam and Eve how God killed an Animal to cover the couples nakedness, then wow, now thats Faith!

agur

You attack Catholics because you want someone to attack. We tell you the truth, and you guys don’t listen! You think you know more about the Catholic Beliefs then Catholics do. I think I’d know a little bit more about Catholics then most Non-Catholics, thank you very much! Your right, we don’t see Praying to Mary or idolizing the likeness of saints in the bible, and that is precisely why Catholics don’t do that sort of thing!

95% of all ex-Catholics didn’t know a think about the Catechism. They where just raised Catholics as kids, riding there Parents coat tails.  They didn’t know what the Catholics believed, in truth, until some Protestant told them a few twisted facts about the Catholic “worshiping” saints, and because they spent most of there time sleeping in church, they don’t know who to defend it, and leave the Church. I do not pray to Mary, I never have, and I have never worshiped a saint. I worship Jesus alone, as do the rest of the Catholics I know.

Now, as for the rest of your stuff, all I have to say is WHAT!? What does that have to do with anything? We all know how to be saved, we all read the bible! And that second post… Well, you complete lost me with that one. I don’t recall God killing animals and clothing Adam and Eve with them, and I don’t see the relevance of Animal sacrificing with all this.