TONGUES

[gary cook]

I have gotten bit by a copper head before and a black widow spider .Got sick on bad food a couple of times
So you believe the bible is out dated about some things and you believe you can pick and choose .please ?
The bible is not changed .GOD does not chage
What has changed is our understanding .
JESUS CHRIST said ?will I find faith on the earth when I return ?
if a person does not have it ?must not be true .
listen you need to fast .I am not being smart ,but you are not close to the LORD .You know some words .But fasting will bless you more than you know .Then you will come back and think different .can you fast ?.Because the KINGDOM OF GOD is power .and it is in the hearts of people
You know this helps no one but fasting will cause you to know the LORD personally .

[Pilgrim]

I have gotten bit by a copper head before and a black widow spider .Got sick on bad food a couple of times
So you believe the bible is out dated about some things and you believe you can pick and choose .please ?

Does this mean that thousands of ungodly people who have recovered from poisonous snakes, spiders bites and food poison are really followers of Jesus and filled with the power of the Holy Spirit?  

[gary cook]

I can not say about all those people .but I am thinking about you ?Where are you in all this ?You have never ansured my questions ?Why ?Are you going to fast ?JESUS CHRIST SAID HIS followers would .are you one ?will you fast ?I know no signs follow you .

[Pilgrim]

"Those who claim that God speaks to them in an audible voice need to be careful as it cannot be tested."

Is this really so Pilgrim? Then the purpose of 1Jo 4 is lost on you then. The question was wether or not God talks to us, and the answer is of course He does, tho never in contradiction to His written Word.

You say its a dangerous error gary is embracing, and I see him embracing Christ...I dont need to be in agreement with every word he says to see that...no more than I need to be in agreement with every word you say. You tried to get gary to 'prove' the voice of God, and now you are latching unto a Bush to try to rally support for your arguement agianst him ever having heard Gods voice.  
 
Joh 16:13  The Spirit shows what is true and will come and guide you into the full truth. The Spirit doesn't speak on his own. He will tell you only what he has heard from me, and he will let you know what is going to happen.

Your avoiding the question.

Do you believe God told these things to Gary or the voice he is hearing is something other than God? If you believe it was God, then why does this voice say Bush is America’s last hope rather than Jesus?  

Still waiting for your answer Shylynne.

[Shylynne]

I did not avoid the question, it`s a moot point. I cannot know if God has talked to gary or not, no more than you can, other than by his adherance to scripture, this doesnt negate the fact that God DOES TALK to us.

As far as leaders go, God said He causes them to rise and fall, and so it is. How does he effectively  "cause"?
If  God wanted Bush for president, (and obviously He did or Bush wouldnt be) telling His people how to vote would seem reasonable enough to me, after all we are talking about a God who used burning bushes and donkeys to get men to listen.

[Pilgrim]

I did not avoid the question, it`s a moot point. I cannot know if God has talked to gary or not, no more than you can, other than by his adherance to scripture, this doesnt negate the fact that God DOES TALK to us.

As far as leaders go, God said He causes them to rise and fall, and so it is. How does he effectively  "cause"?
If  God wanted Bush for president, (and obviously He did or Bush wouldnt be) telling His people how to vote would seem reasonable enough to me, after all we are talking about a God who used burning bushes and donkeys to get men to listen.

How can God audibly tell people to be engaged with the affairs of this world by voting when His written Word tells us not to engage in the affairs of this world? Which one is really the voice of God, the audible voice or the written Word? “No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier” (2 Timothy 2:4).

http://www.nlbchapel.org/politics.htm

[Shylynne]

I have to go ...but

Today’s tongue’s movement if fake and filled with fraud and deceit, obviously fruits of the devil.


*sigh*

Rom 2:21  Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself?

[Pilgrim]

I did not avoid the question, it`s a moot point. I cannot know if God has talked to gary or not, no more than you can, other than by his adherance to scripture, this doesnt negate the fact that God DOES TALK to us.

As far as leaders go, God said He causes them to rise and fall, and so it is. How does he effectively  "cause"?
If  God wanted Bush for president, (and obviously He did or Bush wouldnt be) telling His people how to vote would seem reasonable enough to me, after all we are talking about a God who used burning bushes and donkeys to get men to listen.

It’s not a mote point. Thousands of people claim that a god is speaking to them audibly and many times these voice are not in line with the Scripture. The Scripture we know is the Word of God, but is an audible voice in someone’s head the voice of God? I doubt it very much. Are to believe just because the person says so? Some of these people claim to have numerous miracles every day. Gary even claims to have raised the dead. Do you believe that? If we were to believe them, some  people it seems like have more miracles happening to them everyday than all the saint put together in the first century. My trust is on the Word of God not someone’s boasting in fake supernatural experiences.  

[gary cook]

It should give you faith too recieve a miracle when you need it .as most people most there faith in man kind .Which does not please GOD .as I am sure you do .Not the fact you don"t believe me .But you have no faith in GOD .I don"t believe you have muchj or none relationship with HIm .
And I never said I hear a audibiable .I said HE puts thoughts in ppeoples minds .As I have heard of HIm speaking to people this way .Nothing has changed from the 1st church til now .But it will change soon as my family in the LORD leave here .as I believe we will soon .I went to a web site a while back .They also didn"t believe in miracles .really they didn"t believe in anything .They believed demons were sicknesses .and when you die you go to the grave .and no HOLY SPIRIT .You see or not mostly .What ever shape a person has allowed themselfs to become .They think it is right .Very sad .unbelief has always hurt or destoryed GODS people .When you know someone you talk with them and they with you .
now knowing of a person ?that is different .I know of lots of people .Isn"t funny how JESUS CHRIST said ?I"LL NEVER LEAVE OR FORSAKE YOU .AND HOW HE SAID THE HOLY SPIRIT will DWELL IN YOU .I guess you think ,HE DOESN"T TALK ?AND HE HAS NO GIFTS to GIVE ?What would in do in us ?
YOU know this is true .If i was not going to believe the whole bible .I would not believe any .I know many make money from GODS LIVING WORD and use it all kinds of ways .BUT I have nothing tio do with that .That is between them and MY CREATOR .But you will be judged ,by what is in your own heart .
I believe that is why ,our LORD JESUS CHRIST says not too lean to your own understanding .Your whole life is your understanding .BUT this can not be in TRUTH .because you have lost .because our little dumb minds can not see TRUTH .without the SPIRIT OF TRUTH .other wise JESUS CHRIST would not tell us we had to have the SPIRIT OF TRUTH .I"ll tell you good our minds are ?the 12 walked with JESUS CHRIST for 3 years and still had no understanding .But soon as the HOLY SPIRIT entered them .they started learning fast .But still paul who was more willing to learn from the HOLY SPIRIT did not know JESUS CHRIST .Yet had to teach them ,what the holy spirit taught HIm  .Believe me you cam always get someone to go along with your thinking ? because those who follow JESUS CHRIST are few .If you like the person you are stay where you are spiritually ?If not fast and ask JESUS CHRIST to fill you with TRUTH .Then you can go too a site and be attacked .I lOVE it .GOD IS WITH ME .WHO SHOULD I FEAR ! I get nice e mails every day from people saying how my words have blessed them . ONE thing ,I know ?you will never forget me 10000 years from now ,you will remenber ..I don"t you don"t understand ,but you will .

[Shylynne]

It’s not a mote point. Thousands of people claim that a god is speaking to them audibly and many times these voice are not in line with the Scripture. The Scripture we know is the Word of God, but is an audible voice in someone’s head the voice of God? I doubt it very much. Are to believe just because the person says so? Some of these people claim to have numerous miracles every day. Gary even claims to have raised the dead. Do you believe that? If we were to believe them, some  people it seems like have more miracles happening to them everyday than all the saint put together in the first century. My trust is on the Word of God not someone’s boasting in fake supernatural experiences.  

a quote "It is beyond human comprehension to see something dead and dry to become a snake.(moses rod) A surrendered life, which is committed to the Lord, becomes an instrument for mighty wonders."
You know the Word of God is not limited to a book Pilgrim, tho God will not contradict His book, He is certainly not confined within its pages. Did the Word not become flesh? Is the Word not Christ? Is the Word not a living breathing Diety? The only thing our God cannot do is lie. Which tells me if God wants do more miracles in one mans life than what you consider believable, He can. Do you wish to put a timeline on Gods ability to work miracles, or a cap on His power?
While we are being so careful of who`s testimony we believe, (and so we must be) we also must  not forget the wonder and power of God. Gary is not wrong when he says, if you dont believe in miracles you dont really believe in God.
Why are you so quick to say what is "fake?"
If something does not step outside the boundaries of the Word, what is the basis of your conclusion?  Then you say "the gift of speaking in tongues is fake and of the devil and not for today"...for all your insistance for staying within the guidelines of the Word, it escapes me how you can say that, for you have no scriptural support for such a statement.(and yes I`ve read ALL the arguements, there remains no scripture to support them)
The gifts of God are without repentance are they not?
Does the "Word" also say if you believe, all things are possible? I dont accept what a man says on the basis of wether or not hes recieved miracles, he may have, or not, rather does he adhere to the Word, and does His life show the fruits of the Spirit.
For all the frauds and naysayers I say, the gifts and  power of God is often mimicked but never duplicated!

[gary cook]

shylnne ,YOU are wise ,You leave every door open for the LORD .I am sure ,HE has revealed this to you and more .SOON we will be with HIm . BUT SADLY ,the unbeliever will be stuck here .BUT I BELIEVE OUR LORD ,will save many in that day .OUR BOND is JESUS CHRIST .BUT FAR BETTER TO COME TO HIM NOW THAN LATER .I GO TO MANY SITES ,and see the same thoughts .a few know and believe the LORD .BUT many reject HIS POWER though the HOLY SPIRIT .A few awake as if asleep .and get on fire for the LORD .I believe they return to there 1st LOVE . many with more desire than me .BUT I THANK GOD HE CAN USE ME IN ANY WAY .AS I DO LOVE MY LORD WITH ALL MY HEART . THE GREATEST MIRACLE EVER IN OUR LIFES ?IS OUR NAME IN THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE .MIRACLES ARE WONDERFUL ,FOR SURE WHEN YOU NEED ONE ? BUT TO SEE MY FAMILY WALK IN TRUTH IS GREATER TO ME . MY LORD HAS BEEN SO FAITHFUL WITH ME .IT MAKES ME SAD ,I HAVE NOT DONE OR GIVEN MYSELF MORE TO HIM .HOW HE CAN BE SO FAITHFUL TO US AND LONG SUFFERING ?I MAY NEVER TRULY OR FULLY UNDERSTAND .BUT HE IS PURE LOVE .I HAVE ASK HIM MANY TIMES ?WHY LORD ?WHY DO YOU LOVE A WEAK BEING AS ME ? I AM NOT A SMART MAN IN THE WORLD ,I"VE ARGUED WITH MY FATHER ,HE HAS LET ME HAVE MY WAY .BUT I AM SORRY ,I DID NOT ALWAYS TRUST HIM .AS HE SEES EVERYTHING FROM START TO END . I DO believe there is a permissive will and perfect will .THE PERMISSIVE WILL IS TROUBLE .THE PERFECT WILL IS WONDERFUL .  BLESS YOU FOR LOVING OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST .BUT HE NEVER LEAVES OR FORSAKES US .AS ONE OF MY BOYS WAS KILLED .I ask the LORD .FATHER WHERE IS MY SON .I CAN NOT STAND THINKING HE IS IN HELL .HE SAID ?WAS HE BORN AGAIN .I SAID YES LORD .HE SAID ?DID I EVER LEAVE OR FORSAKE YOU ?I SAID NO LORD ,HE SAID ?WHY WOULD I DO IT TO HIM ?

[BigD]

For an excellent study as to the purpose and use of tongues, go to http://www.geocities.com/benwebb.geo/tongues.html.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[luckyone]

Pilgram, you have little faith my friend. I do not mean that to be a judgement against you but you are limiting the ability of our Almighty Father.

God is the same yesterday, today and forever...He is never changing. Everything was possible for Him in the early church days and is still possible for Him today. This includes, Healing, bringing people back to life, giving the gift of speaking in tounges, communicating with us through other sources than the Bible alone etc....

Speaking in Tongues is a spiritual gift from God and is absolutely still working in followers of Christ today. It is physical proof that the Holy Spirit is within you. Not everyone is blessed with this particular gift but everyone has a special gift that was meant for them.

As far as communicating with God by other means than the Bible alone, how do you believe the Bible was written? It is from God, but by human authors...if you believe the Bible is from God, you must believe God communicated with these authors. God most certainly "speaks" to us today. I personally do not hear God as an "audible voice" however I absolutely know when He is communicating with me. This is the "relationship" I am sure you often hear being referred to between man and our Savior.  

I encourage you, Pilgram to read 1 Corinthians 14.  As far as God not speaking to us...Do you pray? How does He answer your prayers? Not through the Bible....He communicates with us. I ask God for specific scriptures and He guides me right to them. There are plenty of way that God "speaks" to us. These are just a few thoughts....how do you feel about them?

[Pilgrim]

Pilgram, you have little faith my friend. I do not mean that to be a judgement against you but you are limiting the ability of our Almighty Father.

Why? Because I don’t accept the fraud you and others are promoting!

God is the same yesterday, today and forever...He is never changing. Everything was possible for Him in the early church days and is still possible for Him today. This includes, Healing, bringing people back to life, giving the gift of speaking in tounges, communicating with us through other sources than the Bible alone etc....  

Yesterday God had people sacrificing animals. Do you still sacrifice animals? Yesterday God had people worshiping in the temple at Jerusalem. Do you worship at the temple in Jerusalem? Yesterday people were under the Old Covenant. Are you practicing the Old Covenant. Yesterday God’s priesthood was through the line of Aaron. Are you a priest in the order of Aaron? If not, were is your faith? Why are you limiting God? He is the same yesterday, today and forever! He never changes!  

Speaking in Tongues is a spiritual gift from God and is absolutely still working in followers of Christ today. It is physical proof that the Holy Spirit is within you. Not everyone is blessed with this particular gift but everyone has a special gift that was meant for them.

Not true! The Bible said tongue will cease. And they already have. How many foundations does a building have? If the foundation has already been laid then there no longer is a need for foundation tools.

I encourage you, Pilgram to read 1 Corinthians 14.

I have many times. I encourage you  read the article about tongues linked to below and to take the test if you dare.


http://users.bigpond.net.au/joeflorence/tongues.html

Here is a quote from the article:

“If the reading of this treatise precisely dealing with the gift of tongues has left so much as 1% of doubt in your mind, let me approach you on your favorite ground, that of experience itself. But as I do so, I tremble for fear that you will not be honest with yourself and with God. Try this experience for yourself and by yourself. Do it without cheating. Sometime when you are alone and in prayer, tape what you say in tongues before God. You believe that this gift has not been removed and that you genuinely possess it. That is your right, but you must also accept that your brother's gift of interpretation is as authentic as your gift. Choose several of the most spiritual Christians whom you know and in whom you have complete confidence. Ask each one separately to interpret your speaking in tongues. After taping all of them, listen and compare them for yourself, if you have the courage to do so. Within a few words or shades of meaning, each interpretation should say the same thing. Then you can tell me if I exaggerate when I use the word counterfeit. I can imagine what you are feeling as you read these lines. You are disturbed. You may be afraid; afraid to discover the truth. And already you are backing off. You know that you will probably never try this "test". Your heart has already found a good excuse to talk you out of it, but your excuse will convince no one but yourself " It would be sacreligious to put a gift of the Spirit to such an electronic test. I will not stoop to it." Are you sure that this is a good excuse? Under other circumstances you would not hesitate to tape a message, to listen to it yourself and even pass it along to someone else. Or is it the fear of discovering the truth about yourself that makes you hesitate? Here is a way to test the spirits and it is available to you. Besides, electronics is an exact science, and quite neutral. It could never trick you or trick itself. But maybe you would rather be tricked and stay that way. You might be angry with me. I can understand that. You are angry with me for proposing a means of verification that is infallible. The pat answer that "no one understands" is of no help now. Your game of hide-and-seek is over and you have been found out. It took me a long time, but at last I saw the light.”

[Shylynne]

Yesterday God had people sacrificing animals. Do you still sacrifice animals? Yesterday God had people worshiping in the temple at Jerusalem. Do you worship at the temple in Jerusalem? Yesterday people were under the Old Covenant. Are you practicing the Old Covenant. Yesterday God’s priesthood was through the line of Aaron. Are you a priest in the order of Aaron? If not, were is your faith? Why are you limiting God? He is the same yesterday, today and forever! He never changes!

 

Yesterday I spoke in tongues...and today...and tomorrow I hope His spirit gives me more of the same unction...this leaves  me no doubt you are the one who should be answering these questions such as where is your faith and why are you limiting God?...and your proclamation  of belief in a God unchanging sounds rather weak considering what you are refuting.  

Not true! The Bible said tongue will cease. And they already have. How many foundations does a building have? If the foundation has already been laid then there no longer is a need for foundation tools.

tsk tsk Pilgrim, you know full well the Bible reference you are using says tongues and knowledge shall cease, and to toss out one you have to toss out the other...that wouldnt be hard for some of you unbelievers in tongues to do  

It took me a long time, but at last I saw the light.”

The author of that poorly composed bit of babble didnt see any light at all, he got lost in the dark realm of his own intelligence and remained there  

Pilgrim,  I wish you would ask for an answer from THE source of all knowledge,  no matter how inspired and intellectual the authors you have read may appear to be, or how well you or I think we understand His Word, there is no substitute for the understanding you can gain from being in His presence. When a child of God asks to be filled with His spirit, God doesnt give a counterfeit, I dont care if that one is outnumbered a million to one by frauds. I also care not if i`m outnumbered by a million well phrased refutations that this thing cannot be...I am not a fraud...and I do speak in tongues.