Faith and works coincide

[Brother Love]

Are doing His commandments considered work?
Is doing something necessary to have the right to the tree of life and entrance through the gates into the city, ( New Jerusalem)?



 Revelation 22:14.  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Once again: Since we can't do anything to be saved, how can we be expected to do anything to stay saved? The scriptures teach that we are secure in Christ and that nothing, not even our own unbelief, can separate us from the love of God once we have trusted in Christ's sacrifice for our sin. (Rom 8:33-39; Phil 1:6; 2 Tim 2:11-13)  

I agree A4C

Brother Love

[Allinall]

I will not belinger what others have more accurately stated concerning works based salvation, but will add this thought.  What works would God consider acceptable for salvation?  Obedience to His commands?  Were we to be ever obedient, which by our very selfish nature and motivation is not possible, why do we believe that that obedience would gain favor with God?  Why do I say this?  Consider this:

For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. Romans 8:24-27

As a believer, a saved and redeemed child of God, according to this passage, my prayers to my heavenly Father are not "as I ought."  I do not pray as I should.  My prayers are unacceptable! My prayers!  His own adopted sons prayers are unacceptable.  It is only with the intercession of the indwelt Holy Spirit that my prayers are made acceptable to my heavenly Father!  If that be so, then how do I suppose I will ever work myself into a redemptive acceptability?  Just a thought...

[Brother Love]

I will not belinger what others have more accurately stated concerning works based salvation, but will add this thought.  What works would God consider acceptable for salvation?  Obedience to His commands?  Were we to be ever obedient, which by our very selfish nature and motivation is not possible, why do we believe that that obedience would gain favor with God?  Why do I say this?  Consider this:

For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. Romans 8:24-27

As a believer, a saved and redeemed child of God, according to this passage, my prayers to my heavenly Father are not "as I ought."  I do not pray as I should.  My prayers are unacceptable! My prayers!  His own adopted sons prayers are unacceptable.  It is only with the intercession of the indwelt Holy Spirit that my prayers are made acceptable to my heavenly Father!  If that be so, then how do I suppose I will ever work myself into a redemptive acceptability?  Just a thought...

Good, Thanks

Brother Love

[ollie]

Ollie,

So what are the commandments, which are to obeyed, in order to enter, the city and have right to the treee of life??

or,  if you cannot answer this;

What is the labor or work in the verses, you have shared, needed to be done.

Petro

Hi Petro,

That is my question also. The Bible teaches saved by faith, rewarded according to works.
So what is John refering to when He relates Christ's words on doing commandments and works? These which must be done to apparently be in the book of Life and gain access to the New Jerusalem?

Ollie

[ollie]

Petro,
Some thoughts on your question and mine.


The work of faith is the work refered to in Revelation 2 and 3 inn Christ's messages to the seven churches. Christ goes into more detail on this work of faith in the individual messages.

1 Thessalonians1:3.  Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father

2 Thessalonians 1:11.  Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
 12.  That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.


Christ's words and doctrine are the commandments to be done.

John 14:23.  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Commandments were given to the Apostles through the Holy Ghost which were given to first century people by word, and  to us in their writings.

Acts 1:2.  Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

1 Corinthians 14:37.  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.


Again God's people are to keep His word. His words are the commandments.

1 John 2:3.  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
 4.  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
 5.  But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
 6.  He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


 1 John3:22.  And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
 23.  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
 24.  And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.:


1 John 5:1.  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
 2. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
 3.  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
 4.  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
 5.  Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?


 2 John 1:5.  And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
 6.  And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.


 Revelation 12:17.  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Revelation 14:12.  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
 
Jesus' words and the words of the inspired writers are the commandments to do and keep.
The work of faith is that which justifies Christians before God and will allow Christians into that final rest.

[Petro]

Petro,
Some thoughts on your question and mine.


The work of faith is the work refered to in Revelation 2 and 3 inn Christ's messages to the seven churches. Christ goes into more detail on this work of faith in the individual messages.

1 Thessalonians1:3.  Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father

2 Thessalonians 1:11.  Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
 12.  That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.


Christ's words and doctrine are the commandments to be done.

John 14:23.  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Commandments were given to the Apostles through the Holy Ghost which were given to first century people by word, and  to us in their writings.

Acts 1:2.  Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

1 Corinthians 14:37.  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.


Again God's people are to keep His word. His words are the commandments.

1 John 2:3.  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
 4.  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
 5.  But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
 6.  He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


 1 John3:22.  And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
 23.  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
 24.  And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.:


1 John 5:1.  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
 2. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
 3.  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
 4.  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
 5.  Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?


 2 John 1:5.  And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
 6.  And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.


 Revelation 12:17.  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Revelation 14:12.  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
 
Jesus' words and the words of the inspired writers are the commandments to do and keep.
The work of faith is that which justifies Christians before God and will allow Christians into that final rest.

Ollie,

you said;

posted by Ollie,
The work of faith is that which justifies Christians before God and will allow Christians into that final rest.

None of the verses, you quoted above are tied to the final sentence , which I posted above for you.

Because they are based on obedience, due to already being saved.

Do you see, the "faith" that justifies, as a gift from God??


Rom 10
17  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith comes by the hearing of Gods word.

And yet faith cannot be received unless it is given from above, according to Jesus;  He said;

Mk 4
23  .................. If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

So then the faith that justifies, is it really a work produced by man or God??

Consider this verse before you answer this question.

Jhn 6
26  Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28  Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Is the faith necessary to believe, a gift of God??

and secondly??

Is the work of faith a work of man,  or of God, who works in those whom God elects to believe, what man cannot believe , on his own,..........

without God working in him, to "will and do of God's own pleasure"??

Phil 2
13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

This is hard to accept, isn't it??

Blessings,

Petro

[Brother Love]

Faith does not keep us from difficualties, Faith gets us through the difficulties

Brother Love

[ollie]

Faith is the work of God. It is His will that one work His work.

 John 6:8.  Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
 29.  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

[Brother Love]

Faith is the work of God. It is His will that one work His work.

 John 6:8.  Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
 29.  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Jesus Said:

"To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."Romans 4:5  

Brother Love

[ollie]

Faith is the work of God. It is His will that one work His work.

 John 6:8.  Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
 29.  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Jesus Said:

"To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."Romans 4:5  

Brother Love

In Roman's 4:5, is Paul refering to God's work? If he is we have a contradiction and God's word is not contradictory! What work is Paul refering to so that this verse does not contradict John 6:8
In John 6 isn't Jesus refering to the work of God?

[Ambassador4Christ]

Jesus Said:

John 6:8.  Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29.  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


Jesus Said:

"To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."Romans 4:5  

"B-E-L-I-E-V-E"  

[Ambassador4Christ]

A sinner can be brought into right relationship to God (that is, justified, made fit for heaven) by penitently BELIEVING “the record of God’s son.” See 1 John 5:1-13). No sinner has ever been justified by works, for “the grace of God that bringeth salvation” is opposed to works for salvation, even as Romans 11:6 declares, “IF BY GRACE then is it NO MORE OF WORKS, otherwise grace is no more grace…”God the Father has already provided a sufficient life and sacrifice for our sins through His Son Jesus Christ, whom He has raised from the dead. See 1 Peter 2:22-24; 1 Cor. 15:1-5; 2 Cor. 5:21. Here, then, is God’s plan for saving or JUSTIFYING sinners: “This is the work of (singular) of God, that ye BELIEVE on Him Whom He hath sent.” – John 6:29. For “to him that WORKETH NOT, but BELIVETH on Him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS FAITH is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness WITHOUT WORKS.” – Rom. 4:5-6. “For by GRACE are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourself, it is THE GIFT OF GOD: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boars.” – Eph. 2:8-9. Therefore, being JUSTIFIED (declared right) BY FAITH, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.”—Rom. 5:1.

 

[ollie]

1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.



 1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

[ollie]

Ephesians 2:4-10
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained  that we should walk in them.[/u]

[ollie]

Matthew 16:24-28
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.[/b]