Faith and works coincide

[Seven_Tides]

Realize that you can not base everything entirely on faith. You
must have faith, but also good works.  James 2 sums it up
best.

James 2:14
"What doth it profit a man, my brethen, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him?"

James 2:17-18
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."

James 2:20
"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

To have faith, you must also have good works. To have good
works, you must also have faith. Faith without works is as
vain as having works, but no faith.

God bless you all.  
 

[Symphony]

Titus is a nice book on works..."good deeds"

[Seven_Tides]

Ah yes, Titus.  

[Raphu]

EPHESIANS 2:10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Matthew 5:16  Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

ACTS 26:19 I preached first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and through Judea, and also to the Gentiles that all must forsake their sins and turn to God and prove their repentence by doing good deeds

II TlMOTHY 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, SO THAT the man of Good may be thoroughly equipped for every GOOD WORK.

I JOHN 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children let us not love in words or tongue but with ACTIONS and truth.

I JOHN 3:23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to LOVE one another as he commanded us.

MATT. 25:31-45 When the Son of Man comes in his glory....He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.....Then he will say to those on his left,'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil & his angels. FOR I WAS HUNGRY & YOU GAVE ME NOTHING TO EAT, I WAS THIRSTY & YOU GAVE ME NOTHING TO DRINK, I WAS A STRANGER & YOU DID NOT INVITE ME IN, I NEEDED CLOTHES AND YOU DID NOT CLOTHE ME, I WAS SICK AND IN PRISON, AND YOU DID-- NOT LOOK AFTER ME.". "Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

I JOHN 2:3-6 We know that we have come to KNOW him if we OBEY his commands. The man who SAYS "I know God", but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: WHOEVER CLAIMS TO LIVE IN HIM MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

I JOHN 3:24 Those who OBEY his commands live in him, and he in them.

I JOHN 5:3 For this is the love of God, to OBEY his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.

ACTS 5:32   We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God gives to those who OBEY him.

HEBREWS 5:9 And having been made perfect, He became to all those who OBEY Him the source of salvation.

I PETER 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

II THESSALONIANS 1:8 He will punish those who do not KNOW God and Do not OBEY the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power .......

JOHN 14:23 Jesus replied, " If anyone loves me, he will OBEY my teaching.
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.

[Nostalghia]

Raphu, Symphony, Seven Tides:
Amen!

[ollie]

2 Corinthians 5:9.  Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
 10.  For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

[Petro]

So, what is the answer to the question;


James 2:14
"What doth it profit a man, my brethen, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him?"

Please note; Ollies verses; and here I add these little verses;

1 Coir 3
11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Is there anyone here who would argue,  this is not a Christians works,  being judged.

(Not speaking of works to be saved, this is obvious)

If anyone appears at the Judgement Seat of Christ, (not to be confused with the white throne judgement) do the works being judged, concern his salvation??

NO.....

According to these verses,  this man's works, regardless of whether or not all his works burn or not, "he him self shall be saved"

The very fact he appears at the judgement seat of Christ,   is evidence he is saved.

Can any of you all, reconcile your thoughts on this matter..

Anyone can answer??  This is not directed at anyone of you all.



Petro

[Saved_4ever]

I don't think I ever heard anyone argue that faith and works go together however works and salvation do not.  As Petro pointed out our works for Christ shall be judged and the man shall be saved.  There is no getting around this verse and many others that salvation is through faith AND NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.

Why people want to get all religious about it I can't fully figure out aside from man always wanting to prove that he's worth something.

Take care,
Jason

[SonofAslan]

Ok, Petro, I didn’t understand how this was relevant in your other thread, as it didn’t seem to fit in with our discussion. I will answer your question here though, since now I see what you were looking for. James says clearly we are justified by our works and not by faith alone. What does it mean to be justified by our works? Can we be saved without being justified?

1 Cor 3 is irrelevant.  Why? Because there are other possibilities. No one says every single work we do has to be absolutely perfect. Let's accept the interpretation (which seems clear, but isn't necessarily so) that when it says "the man shall be saved, yet as through fire" means that the man shall still attain the Kingdom of God.

Let’s look at this passage. The man who “suffers loss”: is this a man who has no good works or is this a man who has some good works (gold, rubies, etc.) and some bad works (straw,  stubble, etc.)?

I would suggest that what this passage is talking about is someone who HAS good works through faith, but yet not every work they have is good. We all have a plethora of works, good and bad. The good works will be refined by fire, and the good works will grant us rewards, and the bad works will cause us to lose the reward we would have received if the work had been good. And therefore, we shall suffer loss (of the potential reward) while still attaining the kingdom.

Everyone who is “saved” has good works. If they do not, they aren’t saved. This doesn’t mean we don’t have bad works too, and these works will cause us to suffer loss. This is what James says. We are justified by our works  and not by faith alone.

Your mistake is in interpreting the Corinthians passage to be all or nothing. Either it is all good works or all bad works. That is neither the case nor necessarily the case.

Works play a role in our salvation. Jesus James and all of Scripture are clear about that.  But works are not what save us. It is not a scale and if we have more good works than bad works, we're in. Faith and works cannot be separated. To do so renders both impotent.

[Petro]

I don't think I ever heard anyone argue that faith and works go together however works and salvation do not.  As Petro pointed out are works for Christ shall be judged and the man shall be saved.  There is no getting around this verse and many others that salvation is through faith AND NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.

Why people want to get all religious about it I can't fully figure out aside from man always wanting to prove that he's worth something.

Take care,
Jason

Thank You Jason,

And this is an amazing revelation, or it should be at leats for them that agree, one must have works to obtain salvation.

The opening post, states;

"To have faith, you must also have good works. To have good
works, you must also have faith. Faith without works is as
vain as having works, but no faith."

So, my question stands, can anyone answer the question scripture asks??

James 2:14
"What doth it profit a man, my brethen, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him?"

Petro

[SonofAslan]

I answered your question, Petro.

The answer to your question re: James is that faith without works saves no one. So the answer is no, his faith cannot save him. This is exactly the same answer James gives. faith without works is dead.

[Petro]

I answered your question, Petro.

The answer to your question re: James is that faith without works saves no one. So the answer is no, his faith cannot save him. This is exactly the same answer James gives. faith without works is dead.

Well, there you go, Is there anyone else that wants to take another wild guess at the answer..??




Petro

[SonofAslan]

LOL that's not a 'wild guess". That is he exact same answer James gives.

[SonofAslan]

You're not really going to claim that a faith that is dead can save someone, are you?

[Petro]

You're not really going to claim that a faith that is dead can save someone, are you?

No I am, simply going to say that, some receive a little bit of faith, while others a whole lot of faith it is only according to measure of the gift of faith given by God.

And at this level, some can't even accept that God has saved them, without them having to do something for the free gift of eternal life, its almost insulting to the Spirit of Grace as I see it.

But here allow me to give you a verse.

Rom 12
3  For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
4  For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5  So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
6  Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;


But God Bless, as you continue to study His word

Petro