How well do you know your Bible?

[linuxgeek]

Tibby,

I won't continue on this with you but for the ones who do not know the truth of Roman Catholicism I will write this much;

What I wrote is based solidly on the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, and yes they do acknowledge other religions but they CLEARLY claim that there is NO salvation outside of the Roman Catholic Church.  The pope just a few years ago kissed the Quaran in public, this is certainly an acknowledgement of Islam.

While I state truth you try and refute with empty words for lack of knowledge.  I assure anyone reading, I do not have misconceptions about the RCC.  The Bible is our source of scripture and the Bible is very clear in John 3:16 anyone believing in Christ shall have eternal life, no demoniation required.

Your crusade to defend Roman Catholics is admirable, I am not out to attack them.  I have never said there is no salvation in the RCC.  I suspect you will retort to this post, but unless you can cite scripture to prove your claim, unless you can use the Catechism to refute what I have said then I assert it is you who have the misconceptions and you should turn away from Roman Catholic scholars.

LinuxGeek

[Tibby]

You are the one who posted here. No one MADE you post anything. If you don't want to talk about this, just say so, but keep in mind, you posted here under your own free will. I didn’t ask you to come, on one did. I don’t think anyone knew your stand on the catholic church before you posted your little “non-attack.” Do you honestly think you are the only person who has even owned/read a copy of the Catechism? You asked me in your first post to get a read a copy of the Catecish. Hey, here’s a thought, maybe, as someone who has been studying Catholicism for the past yea around, I have a copy? You are talking to a Catholic, and you are trying to past your self off like you know more about what he believes then he does. Think about that for a second. Better yet, maybe you should give it “months worth” of thinking. You will be surprised.  

[Heidi]

I think what we're looking for here, is objectivity. The only way we can be objective about the Catholic church is no being so defensive of it. As Linuxgeek said, there is salvation in Catholic church but i do not believe it is as much as in the evangelical free churchs, for example. There are things wrong with the E-free church also, but the basic doctrine is that you have to be born again with water and the spirit to even become a MEMBER of the E-free church. That doctrine is much more in line with Christ's words than the teachings of the catholic church. I go to an E-Free church but am not offended if it is criticized because my church is Christ inside of me. I realize that a church is as corrupt as the human beings in it. As long as we worship Christ, it is much easier to be objective about denominations.

[Petro]

Tibby,

I won't continue on this with you but for the ones who do not know the truth of Roman Catholicism I will write this much;

What I wrote is based solidly on the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, and yes they do acknowledge other religions but they CLEARLY claim that there is NO salvation outside of the Roman Catholic Church.  The pope just a few years ago kissed the Quaran in public, this is certainly an acknowledgement of Islam.

While I state truth you try and refute with empty words for lack of knowledge.  I assure anyone reading, I do not have misconceptions about the RCC.  The Bible is our source of scripture and the Bible is very clear in John 3:16 anyone believing in Christ shall have eternal life, no demoniation required.

Your crusade to defend Roman Catholics is admirable, I am not out to attack them.  I have never said there is no salvation in the RCC.  I suspect you will retort to this post, but unless you can cite scripture to prove your claim, unless you can use the Catechism to refute what I have said then I assert it is you who have the misconceptions and you should turn away from Roman Catholic scholars.

LinuxGeek

[/quote

I agree, with you.

Actually Tibby is an enigma, like many american catholics, while claiming membership in this organization, they really don't believe her teachings, so my question is why even confess one is catholic or even defend dogmas which clearly are contrary to scripture.

The answer is tradition..they were born into this church and hold on to the portions of teachings they like, and it makes them feel like they accomplishing something towards their own salvation.

Ther are some who join this church, but it isn't because they understand it's teachings, but because of associations, anyhow memebership in any church doesn't garuantee anything so far as God is concerned.

Petro

[Tibby]

Heidi- How can anyone, even Roman Catholics, believe there is such a think as Lesser salvation? Now, different church have different degrees of truth to them, that is for sure. But Salvation is salvation.

Petro- Please elaborate on how I do not uphold the beliefs of  my denomination. I have said many time the group I belong to, so please, find one thing I disagree with them on. As for as I know (and I think I’d know a little bit more about my beliefs then you) I agree with the CEC’s system whole heartedly.

Also, please explain what you mean by “associations”

[Heidi]

I really don't know how a church can believe in lesser salvation. I do believe. however, that churches can misunderstand salvation. That phrase in Romans called "The Believers' Freedom" where Paul says "Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial" totally sums up salvation. In other words, we, as believers, can do ANYTHING we want to and we're forgiven. We can lie, cheat, steal, rob,etc., and we are forgiven. BUT is it beneficial? Who does it help and who does it hurt? Since we have accepted the forgiveness from Christ, we are forgiven for whatever "law" we break. So we are no longer bound by the law. But, now out of gratitude and the Holy Spirit residing is us, we WANT to obey the law because it brings us closer to God. It is complete and total freedom which then gives us the ability to do the right thing.  The love and mercy He gives us when we admit our sins gives us the impetus to want more of it.

As I said previously, some people don't feel they deserve this free gift of salvation (which we really dont') and feel like they have to "earn" their way. They have not totally accepted and felt the free gift so they feel that they have to work their way toward heaven. This is where church doctrines can differ. But scripture tells us otherwise and so does logic and reason. God's love is UNCONDITIONAL and lasting. Otherwise, Pauls words in the believers' freedom would be a lie. Also, Christ's death on the cross would have been for nothing if we could earn our way. We wouldn't have needed His death. When we see just how riddled with sin we all are, we would realize that earning our way is impossible, which Chirst affirms.

[Petro]

Petro- Please elaborate on how I do not uphold the beliefs of  my denomination. I have said many time the group I belong to, so please, find one thing I disagree with them on. As for as I know (and I think I’d know a little bit more about my beliefs then you) I agree with the CEC’s system whole heartedly.

posted by tibby as reply #13 at the JEWISH thread Sept 24,03,

I fine Immaculate Conception to a pretty hard pill to shallow. The apologetics of it are shaky at BEST! It is an idea formed out of Inductive logic (something I can't stand).

It is clear to me you disagree with the official Roman Catholic dogma, and after having posted the official teaching by the Pope (Pius IX), if you believ this doigma, it is grudgingly.

As a member of this organization you are to believe this things without question, and herein you are questioning the teaching.

You deny being catholic now, but you claimed to be a catholic originally when you started posting herein, it was when you stated you were about to graduate from high school and were enrolling in some kind of christian college, if my mind serves me right.

But it matters little to me, american catholics have always been this way, they believe what they want to believe, and still refer to themselves as catholics.

Also, please explain what you mean by “associations”

marriage, and family pressure,m I am sure there are other reasons.


Petro

[Tibby]

Nah, you are a little confused. That is ok, being an expert of Tibby’s personal life isn’t a requirement for being a poster on the Board. I am Catholic now, a member of the Convergence movement. I was raised in a Home that didn’t have Catholic biases (like so many other protestant homes), because most of my extended Family lives in Southern Louisiana, if you catch my drift. Spent most of my life in Protestantism, as my father left the Catholic Church as a young man because the Priests where not able to answer some of the major questions he had (how we ended up back in Catholicism, long story). As I have said before, the Roman Catholic Church only makes up a small number of the Catholic groups. There is the Polish National, there are several different Eastern Orthodox groups, My group, etc, etc. You might be surprised at how many rites there are, I know I was. Anyways, for the most part, Mary Doctrine is Roman only, most other rites don’t follow it, making that a large number of Catholics world wide. My point is, believing Mary is sinless isn’t a prerequisite for being Catholic.

Now you know… the rest of the story.

I’m a freshman at a State University, not Christian College. Good school, but with no official Religious affiliation.

As for Marriage, I’m currently in a long term relationship with a girl whose parents are Super-Baptists. IF, in the distant future, I do marry her, it will be less then peaceful. That goes for most of the girls in my area, as we are in the bucket of the bible belt, and 95% of all Christians are Baptist. So pressure for/from Marriage or Courtship isn’t the reason for being Catholic. As for Family, my father and I came to the same conclusion mutually about this, he would never push things on us. Other reason, I don’t see what they might be. We have one Roman Catholic Church in town, and countless Baptist Churches. The two largest Churches are Baptist, and anyone who is anyone in this town is a member of one of the two.

[Heidi]

I married a born again Christian who has, like me,  no particular domination affiliation. I cannot tell you how blessed our marriage is. Because Christ rules us, rather than a church, we can talk objectively about all churches and go to any of them as we so choose. I know so many people who have problems in their relationships because one's a Lutheran and the other is a Catholic, or one's a Baptist, and the other is a Lutheran. These people have even said they have different RELIGIONS. WHEN DOES CHRIST TAKE PRECENDENCE OVER A DENOMINATION? These people worship the church DOCTRINES before they worship Christ. That is idol worship. Who cares what church a person attends as long as it is Christ He has on the throne of the universe? I believe that if there is too much attachment to a denomination, then there is idol worship going on.

[Tibby]

Thank you Heidi. It isn’t a thing of following “the church” blinding with most people. It is a Thing of what you believe. If Denominations don’t matter, lets all go Catholic! Hey, lets become Jehovah’s Witness instead! At least for me, it is about what I believe. It just so happens what I have come to believe through study, prayer, and meditation is what my current Denomination also believes. So, it seems only natural, if I believe what they believe, I should join up! No man is an island, and I think joining with people who believe like you do on an international level will only help to further your walk. And THAT is where Denominations come in. Denominations are here for US, we are not hear to serve the denomination. We are hear to serve God, and it just seems to me that is easier to do with the resources of a large international group backing you.

[Heidi]

I personally don't adhere to any one denomination which is why my husband and i go to different churches depending on what we want to hear. I see problems in every denomination, some more than others. All i want to do is go to church to worship Christ, take communion, enjoy fellowship and go to bible study. I don't even like sermons because I've heard too many that are way off the mark. That's why I enjoy bible studies where we can scrutinize scripture, hear different interpretations of scripture, ask questions and discuss. that's where i learn.

[Tibby]

That's great heidi.

[Petro]

Nah, you are a little confused. That is ok, being an expert of Tibby’s personal life isn’t a requirement for being a poster on the Board. I am Catholic now,

We already knew that cause like I saifd you shared that;

a member of the Convergence movement

What new wind of doctrines does this movement teach, that brings who together at the point??   And what is the point??

Do you accept the idea the pope is infallible??

That Mary is a co-redemptress intercessor??

That she is to be worshipped??

That you must receive the seven sacraments in order to be saved??

Must wear  a scapular?

Pray the Rosary??

If the answer is yes to all of the above, your still a Roman Catholic, stop kidding yourself..

It is obvious to me, althought you do not like the "immaculate concepcion dogma" of Mary, you still believe in it..or have you not swallowed the pill.....am I wrong?

Blessings,
Petro





 

[ebia]

Someone didn't think about what they were writing:

That you must receive the seven sacraments in order to be saved??

That would mean only married priests were saved.  

[Tibby]

Nah, you are a little confused. That is ok, being an expert of Tibby’s personal life isn’t a requirement for being a poster on the Board. I am Catholic now,

We already knew that cause like I saifd you shared that;

Just checking

What new wind of doctrines does this movement teach, that brings who together at the point??

The whole point is they are not bringing any “new wind” we are simplify using all that we believe to be the way things should be in one place. This is a article written by of of the leaders of the 2 Convergence churches:

http://www.theceec.org/11convergence.html

And what is the point??

What is the point of any Church? To Worship God and equip the saints to do the work of the Load. Sorry for the text book answer, but what would you like me to say?

Do you accept the idea the pope is infallible??

The CEC does not, I however, and still praying over the matter. Great arguments are made both for and against.

That Mary is a co-redemptress intercessor??

No.

That she is to be worshipped??

I know what you THINK you the Catholics believe, but no one “worships” Mary. No.

That you must receive the seven sacraments in order to be saved??

No. They are the outward signs that follow salvation.

Must wear  a scapular?

Say what? No. Now, if I was a Monk whose order required it, yes.

Pray the Rosary??

No.

If the answer is yes to all of the above, your still a Roman Catholic, stop kidding yourself..

I answered no to all. If I had answer yes, Catholics would consider me to be a cult member, not a Catholic. You do not know what I believe. You do not know what Catholics Believe. Stop kidding your self.

It is obvious to me, althought you do not like the "immaculate concepcion dogma" of Mary, you still believe in it..or have you not swallowed the pill.....am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. Sorry.


Later,
Chris