One Father who is in heaven

[His_child]

When did Peter and Paul say that we should call a human "Holy Father?"

[C C]

   Uh, Jesus had LOTS to say about Man-Made rules and What Jesus had to say about Man-Made Rules IS in the Bible.  Our rejection of Man-Made Rules IIIISSSSS in the Bible and very Biblical.  I guess the crux of the matter is this:  If a man says he has wisdom from God, we have the FREEEDOM to accept his words or REJECT his words.  This issue here is that the Catholics INSIST and are ADAMENT that we CANNOT reject what the Pope says because the are absolutely sure beyond any shout of a doubt that he is infallible because he says he is.  I've just got a big problem with a man coming along and saying that he can take away MY FREEDOM to decide whether or not he's full of himself.  The Pope and the Catholics insist that we are NOT FREE, No FREEDOM at ALL--they are adamant about saying that we do not possess one bit of freedom to reject what a mere man says.  Sorry, it is for freedom that Christ has set us free.  If you want to remain in slavery, you're free to do that too!  But don't try to take away my freedom just because you are in chains.  

On another note, there are litterally BILLIONS of true Christians that call themselves Catholics.  They have the common sense to not swallow everything whole that they hear and they live out Christ's love without arguing over doctrine.  That's admirable.  

chains for a higher cause--I've considered it.  If you really want to spend your lifetime caring for the homeless and the sick and feeding the poor, the Catholics will take you in and let you live out Christ's love under their establishment.  It's not all bad.  

But here in the debate section . . .  .  We are FREE to speak our mind.  

[ebia]

Saying that Mary was a virgin all her life is not in the bible, ebia. So if the catholic church only passes on what's in the bible, why do they pass that along?

No-one's said that the church only teaches what is in the bible, but that the catholic church doesn't teach anything that contradicts the bible.  The bible doesn't say whether or not Mary remained a virgin.

Calling he pope "Holy Father" is not only not in the bible, it directly contradicts Christ's words, ebia.

So does calling your biological dad "father".

Elevating people to sainthood is not in the bible, ebia.  

You clearly don't have the faintest idea about canonisation, which is just a process of recognising a few of those who are clearly saved.

etc.

[ebia]

When did Peter and Paul say that we should call a human "Holy Father?"

Paul refered to himself as the [spiritual] father of others.

[Heidi]

Paul referred to himself as the father of the gospel which he is, ebia. He was the first to spread it. But I don't call him "father", nor does he say to call him father, because he is not my spiritual father. He does not call himself our Holy Father or spiritual father. That is a title reserved for God alone.  

As for Mary being a virgin not being in the bible, my whole point is that if the catholic church thinks it's infallible, then they can make up anything they want and say it's true. Then people discard the bible in favor of the catholic church. That is the hallmark of a cult. David Koresh had many people fooled because what he said was not scriptural but people believed him instead of the bible. The true way of knowing whether something is coming from God or not is if it's in the bible. if it's not in the bible, then it's coming from men. Worshipping men as infallible is a cult. You either worship Jesus Christ or the catholic church because they contradict each other. It's obvious to me who you worship.

[ebia]

Paul referred to himself as the father of the gospel which he is, ebia. He was the first to spread it.

Wrong:
"for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel."
father through the gospel, not of the gospel.

As for Mary being a virgin not being in the bible, my whole point is that if the catholic church thinks it's infallible, then they can make up anything they want and say it's true.

1.  It can't contradict the bible.
2.  It can't contradict anything said infallibly before.
3.  It can only be in matters of faith and morals.
4.  They have to justify it, and that justification is freely available for all to read.
So unlike cults (the morman's say) there are very heavy limitiations on what the church can say.

Then people discard the bible in favor of the catholic church.

But the church has said infallibly that the bible is correct, that it is at the centre of the catholic faith, and that none of their other infallible statements can contradict it.  So they clearly are not free to discard it.

The true way of knowing whether something is coming from God or not is if it's in the bible. if it's not in the bible, then it's coming from men.

That can't be true, but it contradicts the bible itself.  The bible clearly says that it isn't the sole medium for truth.

Worshipping men as infallible is a cult.

No-one is worshipping any men, so please either prove they are or stop saying it.

You either worship Jesus Christ or the catholic church because they contradict each other.

You still haven't provided us with a single contradiction between the bible and the catholic church, only contradictions between your poor understanding of the bible and your even worse understanding of the catholic church.


You've still got this to answer, too:

Quote:

Calling he pope "Holy Father" is not only not in the bible, it directly contradicts Christ's words, ebia.  
 

So does calling your biological dad "father".

[Heidi]

Where in the bible does it say that Mary never had sex wirh Joseph? If it's not scriptural, how do the catholics justify Mary's virginity except through their imagination?

If the church believes the bible is infallible then why do they fast openly at lent instead of in private like Jesus said to do? Why do they call the pope "Holy Father" like Jesus said not to do.You still have not answered this question. What do YOU think He meant by those words? Why does the church put men on pedestals and adorn the church with bronze statues of men?Where does the bible say to pray to or for dead men? Jesus makes it very clear that he who hears the word and does not believe Him, has lost his salvation. "When the owner of the household closes the door, He will say, 'I never knew you. Get away from me you evildoers!" According to the catholic church, if someone comes to church without Christ living inside of him the PRIEST can forgive them of their sins. This also contradicts Jesus's words to have God and the Holy Spirit living inside of us. This is where the catholic church's theory on apostolic succession becomes grossly distorted.

You jst contradicted yourself, ebia. You said the church considers the bible infallible and now you say it isn't the sole medium for the truth. What other sources of truth are there? Man's imagination? If so, then you are saying that man is perfect and infallible. Which is it?

Praying to dead men is INDEED worshipping men. Putting men on pedestals including saints and the pope, is INDEED worshiping men!

[Tibby]

Where in the bible does it say that Mary never had sex wirh Joseph?

Where does the bible say they did have sex?

[Allinall]

Where in the bible does it say that Mary never had sex wirh Joseph?

Where does the bible say they did have sex?

Then his mother and his brothers came to him, but they could not reach him because of the crowd.  And he was told, "Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see you."  

Luke 8:19-20

K.  Here's how it works.  You see the male drone bee comes to the female queen bee and...

[His_child]

Where in the bible does it say that Mary never had sex wirh Joseph?

Where does the bible say they did have sex?

Do you always answer a question with a question?  

[C C]

Jesus had brothers and sisters.  Unless they also came from Virgin birth or adoption--and we're assuming they weren't adopted because they would have mentioned the adoption if it were not so.    But we don't know that for sure do we?

[Tibby]

Where in the bible does it say that Mary never had sex wirh Joseph?

Where does the bible say they did have sex?

Do you always answer a question with a question?  

Isn't that how we play this game?

[C C]

   Since Jesus answered questions with questions, we can say that's "Biblical"!!  

[ebia]

Where in the bible does it say that Mary never had sex wirh Joseph? If it's not scriptural, how do the catholics justify Mary's virginity except through their imagination?

The bible doesn't say either way.  Other documents written around the same time all say she remained a virgin.  The great Christians of the 1st and 2nd centuries (some of whom had met her, many of whom had met John) all seem to believe she remained a virgin.

If the church believes the bible is infallible then why do they fast openly at lent instead of in private like Jesus said to do?

You shouldn't boast about your fasting, and the RCC doesn't teach that you should as far as I know.

Why do they call the pope "Holy Father" like Jesus said not to do.

He didn't say don't call the pope "Holy Father".  He said don't call anyone father or teacher.   No-one, you included, takes these words literally.

According to the catholic church, if someone comes to church without Christ living inside of him the PRIEST can forgive them of their sins.

Untrue.

You jst contradicted yourself, ebia. You said the church considers the bible infallible and now you say it isn't the sole medium for the truth.

That's not a contradiction.  The book of Song of Solomon is infallible but not the sole medium of truth.

What other sources of truth are there?

God.

Praying to dead men is INDEED worshipping men. Putting men on pedestals including saints and the pope, is INDEED worshiping men!

Proof by repetion, eh?

[ebia]

Jesus had brothers and sisters.

Except that the word used can also mean more distant relatives such as cousins.