One Father who is in heaven

[Heidi]

Hi everyone,

I was just banned from a catholic online forum for insinuating that calling the pope "Holy Father" is blasphemous. I feel insulted and extremely offended when a human being is put on the same level as God and my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The very fact that I was banned shows me that they consider it blasphemous to call the POPE a human being which indicates they ARE putting him on the same level as God.  How do other feel about this?

[Symphony]

I see Catholic priests occasionally, and I have addressed them as "Father".


Mostly tho I just try to avoid them, so the issue doesn't come up.

It is blasphemous tho, so I'm the hypocrite.


I've wondered about it in Disney's 1940 "Pinocchio".  When Pinoke is searching for his father, he's calling out, "Father! Father!"  Jiminy Cricket following suit, says equally, "Father!..." --then catches himself, and says, "Harumph!.  He's not my father."  And then goes on, calling out, "Mr. Gepeddo, oh Mr. Gepeddo."

And I've wondered if that wasn't a dig at Catholics by Walt.  I know his dad was an itinerat sometime lay minister, and had the boys reading in their bibles.  (Walt's middle name was "Elias").

So I generally avoid the Catholics, and because of that, mainly.

[ebia]

Hi everyone,

I was just banned from a catholic online forum for insinuating that calling the pope "Holy Father" is blasphemous.

... and?  People get banned from this forum if they put forward views that the moderator & admins deem outside of the remit of this forum.

I feel insulted and extremely offended when a human being is put on the same level as God and my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Calling the Pope "Holy Father" isn't putting him on the same level as Christ, even if you think it is.

The very fact that I was banned shows me that they consider it blasphemous to call the POPE a human being

No it doesn't.  It proves they felt you were out of order in the subject matter you chose or the way to discussed it. Catholics are well aware that the Pope is just a human being, albeit one in a very special office.

[ebia]

I see Catholic priests occasionally, and I have addressed them as "Father".


Mostly tho I just try to avoid them, so the issue doesn't come up.

It is blasphemous tho, so I'm the hypocrite.


I've wondered about it in Disney's 1940 "Pinocchio".  When Pinoke is searching for his father, he's calling out, "Father! Father!"  Jiminy Cricket following suit, says equally, "Father!..." --then catches himself, and says, "Harumph!.  He's not my father."  And then goes on, calling out, "Mr. Gepeddo, oh Mr. Gepeddo."

And I've wondered if that wasn't a dig at Catholics by Walt.  I know his dad was an itinerat sometime lay minister, and had the boys reading in their bibles.  (Walt's middle name was "Elias").

So I generally avoid the Catholics, and because of that, mainly.

There are plenty of other threads discussing why it isn't blasphemous to call a priest father, but if it still bothers you then don't.  No Catholic priest worth his salt is going to be offended by someone outside his flock not calling him father.

If you try to ram it down his throut that it's blasphemous, then he might get offended.

[aw]

Heide,
Praise God!!!! You should be full of joy that you were banned!!!! The RC Religion is full of blasphemy and error. There are probably a FEW true believers in their ranks as they do preach Christ, but the entire religious system is full of error.

To begin with, its foundation is completely wrong. I am making reference to Peter's confession, petra, petros, and the Church. It goes on to add such absurdities and non-scriptural teachings as the veneration of Mary, transubstantiation, baptismal regeneration, lent and other such nonsense, Papal infallibility, purgatory, prayers for the dead, nuns, and celibacy (Its always cheaper to have to house and have insurance for only one person).

You should be thrilled at being banned as it means that you are being persecuted for righteousness sake. Now, someone will probably come along, take a portion of what I posted, and attempt an attack mw since what I have posted is truth. I hope they do and I can then celebrate with you.

Grace and peace X,

aw

[ebia]

Heide,
Praise God!!!! You should be full of joy that you were banned!!!! The RC Religion is full of blasphemy and error. There are probably a FEW true believers in their ranks as they do preach Christ, but the entire religious system is full of error.

To begin with, its foundation is completely wrong. I am making reference to Peter's confession, petra, petros, and the Church. It goes on to add such absurdities and non-scriptural teachings as the veneration of Mary, transubstantiation, baptismal regeneration, lent and other such nonsense, Papal infallibility, purgatory, prayers for the dead, nuns, and celibacy (Its always cheaper to have to house and have insurance for only one person).

You should be thrilled at being banned as it means that you are being persecuted for righteousness sake. Now, someone will probably come along, take a portion of what I posted, and attempt an attack mw since what I have posted is truth. I hope they do and I can then celebrate with you.

Grace and peace X,

aw

Being right can lead to persecution, as Christ taught.  But being persecuted doesn't prove you are right.

[Heidi]

Thank you, aw, for your response. You seemed to understand how i felt. I felt joy in my heart when i saw "The Holy Father" because i thought they were talking about God. Then when I saw they were talking about the pope, my heart sunk. Then i became furious. I honestly could indentify with how Jesus must have felt in the temple when He saw they were treating it like a "den of thieves."  If that's what they call the pope, then what do they call God?

I also understand how Luther must have felt about the teachings of the church; selling penitances, keeping people from reading the bible, dictating right and wrong. Some of those things have been changed but I still see a tremendous arrogance in the catholic church which is manifested in the priest forgiving sins, priestly garments and robes, elaborate ceremonies, all these things which God specifically forbade us to do. And as you say, venerating Mary. This is crazy! What is the purpose of all this? How does this encourage a personal relationship with Christ? Sometimes it actually look satanic to me.

I went to the forum to find more out about the church, hoping I was wrong about them. But they only re-confirmed my previous conceptions that are NOT AT ALL scriptural. The saddest thing of all, was they were more interested in defending the catholic church than Christ Himself! I went away deeply saddened.

[Heidi]

All you have to do is read Christ's words and use discernment from the Holy Spirit to see the truth, ebia. in Matthew, 23:9, Jesus said; "And do not call anyone on earth 'father' for you have one Father and he is in heaven." I don't know who your father is, ebia, but I know who mine is and it's not the pope!

[JudgeNot]

Heidi,
I don't see anything wrong with addressing a priest as "father" - but "Holy Father" (in the capitalized sense) is a whole other story!  My apologies to my Catholic brothers and sisters – but, personally, I just could never do it without feeling like a blasphemer.

Let your conscience guide you, Heidi - if it makes you feel guilty in Christ, then you are right not do it.  

Yours in Him,
JN

[aw]

Another false doctrine of the Catholic organization is the establishment of a "PRIESTHOOD." That is totally ascriptural and without apostolic authority. ALL believers are "PRIESTS" unto our High Priest, the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no such thing as an earthly priest that believers are to be subservient to.

The same is true for "SAINTS." All believers in Christ are SAINTS as the Lord is made unto us "Wisdom, righteousness, SANCTIFICAATION, and resemption." The very idea of an organization declaring anyone a SAINT, as distinguished from any other believer, is repugnant.

The trickery of catholocism that it sounds right, but what they have essentially done is to make everything dependent upon their organization. For example, they are THE dispensers of God's grace.

If God has called you to stay in the RCC in order to win others to the Lord, then stay there, but otherwise run as far away as you can and and as fast as possible. The fruit of this religion is readily apparent as the list being sent to prison and the out-of-court settlements expands.

aw

[Sower]

Hi everyone,

I was just banned from a catholic online forum for insinuating that calling the pope "Holy Father" is blasphemous. I feel insulted and extremely offended when a human being is put on the same level as God and my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The very fact that I was banned shows me that they consider it blasphemous to call the POPE a human being which indicates they ARE putting him on the same level as God.  How do other feel about this?

Heidi:

You are absolutely right in concluding that the title of "Holy Father" when applied to the pope, is utterly blasphemous. The Lord Jesus Christ has specifically commanded us to "Call no man father", and it can only be said of God that "holy and reverend is His name". Furthermore to call priests "Father" is disobedience to God, as is calling men "Reverend", "Right Reverend" etc.

Scripture is very clear: "ALL YE ARE BRETHEN" , so the proper way to address pastors as well as brothers/sisters in the Lord is to call them "Brother" or "Sister".  Ananias called Saul, "Brother Saul" after the Lord told him that Saul the persecutor was now saved.  This apostle called others his brethren, and the apostle Peter did not elevate himself above other elders but said he was a "fellow-elder".

The pretensions of popery have been obtained from paganism, as has his title of Pontifex Maximus. This title was originally applied to Roman emperors as high priests of their heathen religion. So the connection of the Church of Rome to paganism is well-established.

Furthermore pope Leo XIII, in his encyclical, "The Reunion of Christendom" (1885) declared that the pope holds " UPON THIS EARTH THE PLACE OF GOD ALMIGHTY".  Imagine that!
God is withholding His judgment from Mystery Babylon until all things are fulfilled, but God's wrath is reserved against the city that sits on seven hills. All the Reformers referred to the pope as "the Anti-Christ". Today "evangelicals" (inclduing Billy Graham) are seeking cooperation.  Think how far we have fallen away!

[Sower]

If God has called you to stay in the RCC in order to win others to the Lord, then stay there, but otherwise run as far away as you can and and as fast as possible. aw

aw:

I agree with the bulk of your post, but your counsel regarding God calling someone to remain in Babylon does not jibe with Scripture.  God specifically commands those who are in Babylon to "COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM AND BE YE SEPARATE, AND TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING" (2 Cor. 6:17).

There is such a thing as "ecclesiastical separation", and we should be separated from those who teach false doctrine and commit false practice. The dogmas of Rome are false from start to finish, but they do wear a very Christian garb, "and no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light".

[ebia]

All you have to do is read Christ's words and use discernment from the Holy Spirit to see the truth, ebia. in Matthew, 23:9, Jesus said; "And do not call anyone on earth 'father' for you have one Father and he is in heaven." I don't know who your father is, ebia, but I know who mine is and it's not the pope!

There's a perfectly good thread already that address this.  If you have any further questions or points to raise that haven't already been addressed there, then that would seem to be the place to do it.

[ebia]

Another false doctrine of the Catholic organization is the establishment of a "PRIESTHOOD." That is totally ascriptural and without apostolic authority. ALL believers are "PRIESTS" unto our High Priest, the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no such thing as an earthly priest that believers are to be subservient to.

The same is true for "SAINTS." All believers in Christ are SAINTS as the Lord is made unto us "Wisdom, righteousness, SANCTIFICAATION, and resemption." The very idea of an organization declaring anyone a SAINT, as distinguished from any other believer, is repugnant.

The trickery of catholocism that it sounds right, but what they have essentially done is to make everything dependent upon their organization. For example, they are THE dispensers of God's grace.

aw

Well, you've successfully demonstrated that you have no understanding of the Catholic concept of ordained priest, sacrement, or of the significance of canonisation.   What makes you think you're in a position to condemn an organisation you don't even begin to comprehend?

The fruit of this religion is readily apparent as the list being sent to prison and the out-of-court settlements expands.

Since all the other branches of Christianity are in the same boat, roughtly proportional to the size of each denomination, from the RCC to the Sally Army, then either one must conclude:
a.  the whole of christianity is rotten to the core
or
b.  the Church, in all its branches, depends on the strength of God and doesn't fall despite the clear failings of the individuals that make it up.

[ebia]

Scripture is very clear: "ALL YE ARE BRETHEN" , so the proper way to address pastors as well as brothers/sisters in the Lord is to call them "Brother" or "Sister".  Ananias called Saul, "Brother Saul" after the Lord told him that Saul the persecutor was now saved.  This apostle called others his brethren, and the apostle Peter did not elevate himself above other elders but said he was a "fellow-elder".

There's nothing wrong with calling everyone brother, but that doesn't demonstrate that its the only appropriate title in every possible circumstance.  He said "You are all brothers", not 'you must only call each other "brother"'

Furthermore pope Leo XIII, in his encyclical, "The Reunion of Christendom" (1885) declared that the pope holds " UPON THIS EARTH THE PLACE OF GOD ALMIGHTY".  Imagine that!

The anti-Catholic favourite.   A quote taken out of the context and background that are necessary to understand what the writer meant.

All the Reformers referred to the pope as "the Anti-Christ".

Simply not true.  Some did.  Many did not.

There is such a thing as "ecclesiastical separation", and we should be separated from those who teach false doctrine and commit false practice.  

Since I've never met two Christians who can agree on everything (on-line or in reality) this can only lead to a billion denominations each consisting of one person, and none of them talking to anyone else.

The dogmas of Rome are false from start to finish, but they do wear a very Christian garb, "and no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light".

So the doctrine of the Trinity is wrong?  The doctrine of Christ as Son of God is wrong?

To say all the dogmas of Rome are false is clearly untrue.  Infact, if you understood them, you'd find you agree with FAR more than you disagree with, and most of those you do disagree with you wouldn't think are critical.  But first you have to understand them instead of taking your misunderstanding and using it as a basis for condemnation.