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57961  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:News, happening today on: November 30, 2005, 09:42:37 AM
I understand what you mean about not much money to spend, however if each and every Christian did the same thing it would amount to a whole lot. There is an organization in my area that puts out a book, advertising of sorts, that lists all the Christian owned businesses. It helps a lot when trying to decide on where to go shopping.

All of my family already has at least one book shelf loaded with study Bibles so I am trying to come up with something else along the same line instead. I do like your ideas though. If more people would do these things it wouldn't take long to get our message across.



57962  Entertainment / Politics and Political Issues / Re:Lowe's listens:'Christmas trees' on: November 30, 2005, 09:26:57 AM
Amen Brother Tom,

Jesus is the reason for every season!


57963  Entertainment / Computer Hardware and Software / Re:Firefox 1.5 released today on: November 30, 2005, 09:20:25 AM
Hi Joey,

Yes I have it downloaded and installed. So far the only extension that is not working is "Smiley Xtra". I tried to download an upgrade for it that claimed to be compatible but it kept coming up not compatible. I am going to wait a few days and see if another upgrade will be available for it. Sometimes it takes awhile for the extensions to be upgraded correctly.

Everything else is working just great.

57964  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:News, happening today on: November 29, 2005, 11:00:48 PM
It's away with the manger

Novi subdivision tells family to get baby Jesus off lawn; homeowners say Christ belongs in Christmas.

Jennifer Chambers and Brad Heath / The Detroit News

NOVI -- The multicolored nativity scene on the Samona family's front yard is under attack.

The Samonas' neighborhood association has ordered the Novi family to remove its seven-piece plastic display or face possible fines of $25 to $100 per week.

The family isn't budging and neither are its three wise men. The Samonas have vowed not only to keep the display, but also are threatening to enhance it."If you take this out, it's not Christmas anymore," said Joe Samona, 16, as he reached down and scooped baby Jesus from the creche on his parents' front lawn.

A letter sent by the association to the Samonas has brought to their front yard the nation's latest skirmish over just how and where the Christianity of Christmas should be on display.

Already this year, religious groups have taken aim at retail giants such as Wal-Mart and Target for replacing Christmas with fuzzier "holiday" greetings, to say nothing of the annual battles over local governments building nativity scenes in the public square.

The dispute also reinvigorates the issue of what rights homeowners have to wear their beliefs on their front yards. When homeowners join neighborhood or condominium associations, Michigan courts have said they must abide by the rules the group sets. Early this year, for example, a judge said a Macomb Township veteran could not fly a Marine Corps flag from the front of his condominium because having it there violated association rules.

Last week, Joe's parents, Betty and Frank Samona, received a notice from the community association that sets regulations in their upscale Tollgate Woods subdivision. It said the family may be violating rules that prohibit lawn ornaments, statues or outdoor art from being placed on the lot without prior approval of the board of directors.

Then it simply says: "Please remove the nativity scene display from your front yard."

Joe, an outspoken high school student, said the family takes great pride in the holiday decorations it pulls out of the basement every year, which also include a Santa and Mrs. Claus and Minnie Mouse and Winnie the Pooh outfitted in red for the holidays.

It's not uncommon for people to stop and take photographs of the nearly two dozen figurines displayed across the hilly front yard among the landscaping and brick paver walkway.

"Please remove your nativity scene? That's the part that disturbs us. We have the lion (statue) and the Santa and Mrs. Claus and they specifically point out the nativity scene? That's ridiculous. We refuse to take it down," he said.

Association sends letter

Dean Williams, the community association manager and author of the letter, said according to association rules in place since 2000 and signed by the Samonas when they bought the home in 2002, homeowners must request permission to place statues or lawn ornaments outside their home. The Samonas say they never signed any such document.

Asked why the letter specified that only the nativity scene be removed when several other objects stand on the lawn, Williams said the complainant -- another neighbor in Tollgate Woods -- complained only about the nativity scene.

"As a management firm, we do not go out and police. The community will decide what will be allowed and won't be," Williams said. "It's a community decision. It's not a management decision."

Williams would not reveal the identity of the complaining homeowner but read a portion of the complaint: "Although I'm not offended by it, I take issue about advertising personal beliefs and interests by putting them on display whatever the belief or interest may be."

Although the letter says fines of $25 to $100 will be imposed if the Samonas do not correct the alleged violation, Williams said he will not be fining the family unless the management company receives a second complaint. The Samona family members said they have consulted with a lawyer, but decline to say whether they would appeal to the homeowner association. If they did, the appeal would be reviewed by the association board of directors, which includes only representatives from the developers and the management company, but no homeowners. If the Samonas were to be fined, and they refused to pay, a lien could be placed against their property.

Retailers defend practices

The Novi debate is a new battleground in what already has been a contentious year for purveyors of holiday trees and season's greetings.

One Christian group, the American Family Association, launched a Thanksgiving-weekend boycott of Target because it said the chain had banished the word "Christmas" from its advertising and store displays. Now it's drawing up a naughty-and-nice list of retailers and their policies on mentioning Christmas to customers.

"We'll let the American people decide for themselves whether they want to support someone who sells holiday trees," said Randy Sharp, special projects director for the group. He said about 385,000 people signed up for the online boycott.

"It's part of a big picture to de-Christianize America and secularize it as much as possible," Sharp said. "People are more aware that the retail industry is trying to do away with Christmas. If they were trying to make their customers happy, they'd use the word 'Christmas.' I think that's pretty obvious."

Target insists it's doing no such thing. A spokeswoman, Carolyn Brookster, said the chain has no policy barring employees from saying "Merry Christmas" to anyone. "We have a holiday theme and that's what we look at. We have different themes from year to year. We don't want to push public policy; that's not what our job should be."

Wal-Mart landed in the crosshairs of a similar complaint this year. A Roman Catholic group announced a boycott because it said the chain's Web site treated Christmas differently from Hanukkah and Kwanzaa, and because an employee's e-mail to a customer called Christmas a mix of world religions. Wal-Mart changed its Web site and apologized for the e-mail, and the boycott was quickly called off.

"It seems, in the past few years, people have noticed how much Christmas has become so secular and they're reacting to that, and we're seeing more and more people making a point to ask that stores mention Christmas," said Kiera McCaffrey, a spokeswoman for the Catholic League.

Nativity scenes a hot topic

Controversies have raged for years over nativity scenes on courthouse lawns and in city parks, and schools have debated how much of the holiday's spiritual message to present to their students.

This year, the American Family Association sent pamphlets to county officials around the country explaining their rights to erect nativity scenes on public land.

"Some people might suggest we're in the midst of a religious revival of sorts, so it's not surprising that some groups would find the public celebration of Christmas to be inappropriate, and not in keeping with tradition," said Sam Thomas, a Michigan State University history professor. "But that's a tough argument to make because traditions are always changing."

Display is family tradition

Every year for the last three years, Betty Samona set up the display the week before Thanksgiving outside her home near Meadowbrook and 12 Mile roads.

She said the display is important to her because it symbolizes what Christmas is about and it's a tradition for her Christian-Iraqi family.

"I cried when I heard what they wanted me to do," Betty said. "How I am going to take out Jesus, Joseph and Mary?" she said, near tears.

"I feel like putting out more things."

Family members say they have received nothing but praise and support from neighbors they know and from strangers who pass by and encourage them to keep the display. On Monday, a neighbor drove by the display and expressed her support for the creche.

Sheryl Walsh, community relations manager for Novi, said the city does not have a local ordinance against holiday decorations and has not received a complaint about a homeowner's nativity scene display in the last decade.

"We are a multicultural community and we afford everyone the opportunity to celebrate the holidays," Walsh said.

57965  Entertainment / Politics and Political Issues / Lowe's listens:'Christmas trees' on: November 29, 2005, 10:53:23 PM
Chain dumps 'holiday' reference
after WND report, complaints
Posted: November 29, 2005
1:00 p.m. Eastern

One day after a WorldNetDaily story brought national exposure, the home-improvement retailer Lowe's dropped references to "Holiday Trees" in favor of "Christmas Trees" only.

As WND reported, a Lowe's store in Austin, Texas, featured a banner that referred in English to "Holiday Trees" but in Spanish said "Christmas Trees."

The American Family Association says its supporters contacted Lowe's to express their displeasure.

The company responded in a statement: "To ensure consistency of our message and to avoid confusion among our customers, we are now referring to the trees only as 'Christmas Trees.' We have also removed a banner that read 'Holiday Trees' from the front of our stores."

 Lowe's, in fact, issued a press release Nov. 8 touting its selection of "Christmas trees," but in its stores, it took a different tack.

AFA President Tim Wildmon said companies that choose to abandon the national observance of Christmas are finding Americans are not afraid to speak out with their pocketbooks.

"It's good to know Lowe's is a company that listens to their customers, a rarity in today's politically correct retail marketplace," he said.

Wildmon added, "Since they can't take Christ out of Christmas, many national retailers are trying to simply do away with Christmas."

The list, he said, includes Kmart, Sears, Home Depot, Target, Wal-Mart, Kroger, Office Max, Walgreens, Staples, J.C. Penney, Dell and Best Buy.

After a series of reports by WND, however, Wal-Mart officials satisfied demands by the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, which had called for a national boycott after accusing the retail giant of discriminating against Christmas while promoting other seasonal holidays by name, such as Kwanzaa and Hanukkah.

More than 425,000 people have signed AFA's petition to stop bans on the use of "Christmas." The petition is being sent to retailers, although Wildmon acknowledged it may not have an impact until next Christmas season.

"Last year we called for a boycott of Federated Stores because they banned 'Merry Christmas,' and this year they are using 'Merry Christmas,'" Wildmon pointed out.

57966  Entertainment / Poetry/Prose / I HEAR THE CLOCK TICKING on: November 29, 2005, 10:26:07 PM


I HEAR THE CLOCK TICKING by Irvin L. Rozier


The silence of the house was interrupted by a sound
The clock loudly ticked as the second hand moved around
Time was slipping away, minute by minute, day by day
I could do nothing to keep time at bay

Where did those 18,980 days of my 52 years go
I started searching high and low
After many days seeking, I concluded at last
Those days, weeks, months and years were in my past

How many more days do I have to live
It is in God's hands, my breath He does give
The past is behind me, tomorrow I may not see
My future is in Jesus' hands, He holds the key

In heaven there will be no sound of the clock
Jesus holds the key, this door He'll unlock
Trust in Him who holds time in His hand
The hourglass of old will have no sand

My future is certain, this I believe
He offered me a gift, and I did receive
Eternal salvation that didn't cost a dime
Now I no longer worry about the passage of time.



57967  Theology / Debate / Re:WHAT ABOUT PASTORS WHO LET THIER CHILDREN... on: November 29, 2005, 03:27:21 PM
Hi Mills,

Welcome to the forum. I look forward to hearing more from you especially of your mission.

57968  Theology / Debate / Re:Should War in Iraq be Supported by Christians? on: November 29, 2005, 03:19:10 PM
Hi storm777,

Welcome to the forum.

I agree with you on your statement in regards to the Freemasons, however I must disagree with your comment of staying out of politics. A politician is in fact a leader and God appointed many Godly men to be leaders. King David was anointed as King by God and he was far from evil.

We all have a place in this world as set forth by God. Some Pastors, some Deacons, some Janitors, some Doctors......

God can use us in any capacity as He so chooses.



57969  Theology / Bible Study / Re:Devotions for Teens on: November 29, 2005, 01:26:37 PM
  Close For Comfort

By: Mandie Ross


“…there’s one who sticks closer than a brother.”  Proverbs 18:24

There are the fights in the morning over who gets the bathroom first and for how long. And that starts arguments with parents about how it is so imperative to add more bathrooms to the house. Then there are the arguments over why the last person to drive the car didn’t fill up the gas tank. And to add insult to injury, the one who complains is the one who didn’t get to use the car last even though they’d already made plans. Then there are the complaints about how one sibling absolutely does not like the other’s friends. There’s name calling, and in some cases, hair pulling and fist fights. Some brother’s and sisters stop talking into adulthood for reasons they’ve forgotten. Good old sibling rivalry.

My brother and I have pretty much always gotten along well. We used to get into trouble together, pouring whatever liquid we could find in the garage, into the sandbox. And the first time we got grounded, we were grounded together for playing with matches in our bedroom. We were 5 and 6 at the time. We both hung out at the neighbor boy’s house together when most brothers would tell their sisters to bug off when it comes to hangin’ out with the boys. Not my brother. He even took off his jacket and handed it to me once when I felt car sick…just in case. But then…we got to junior high.

My parents told my brother to walk me home from school because some of the girls were ruthless to me. They kicked me in the shins, knocked things out of my hands and threw whatever it was across the floor, and followed me into the bathroom once to have a 3 to 1 fight. My brother’s response to walking me home…”walk 10 feet in front of or behind me. I don’t want anyone to think you’re my girlfriend.” What happened to my partner in crime? Even I change within myself from one moment to the next and I lose my bond with me. But there’s one who sticks closer—even closer than I stick to me.

He’s there to comfort us when we’re down. He knows what it’s like. He never thinks more of Himself than He does His brothers or sisters. There’s no one like Him. He never changes. He’s the only one who can give us strength during times of weakness, and boldness when there’s no one to stick up for someone-- or when we just need to say or do the right thing. He teaches us compassion, forgiveness, self-control, integrity…He’s the jack-of-all-trades. But most of all He’s the one who shows us real love. He’s closer than you can imagine…and He promises never to leave.


57970  Theology / Bible Study / Re: Sermons4Kids on: November 29, 2005, 01:25:02 PM
Preparing the Way

A voice of one calling: "In the desert prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God. Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain." Isaiah 40:3-4 (NIV) Also, Mark 1:2-3

Does your family have any travel plans during the Christmas holidays? Do any of you ever go to visit out-of-town family or friends? We did when I was a little boy.

Some of my fondest childhood memories of the Christmas holidays were times when we went to visit my grandmother. I don't know how many times we made that trip to my grandmother's house, but there was always some part of the highway that was being repaired. There were signs that said, "Slow Down -- Construction Ahead" and we would see road graders, gravel trucks, and a lot of men working on the highway. I always thought to myself, "What a nice highway this will be when it us finished it and there is no more construction." That was many years ago and I still travel that highway from time to time. Guess what? They are still working on it! You see, by the time they finish working on one part of the highway, there is another place that needs to be repaired! Even some part they have repaired before may need to be repaired again. They will never finish working on it.

The childhood memory of those holiday trips to grandmother's house reminds me of the story of the first Christmas. The Bible tells us that God sent a man named John to prepare the way for the coming of Jesus. John told the people to make a highway in the desert for their God. He told them to make the crooked ways straight and to make the rough places smooth. John wasn't really talking about building a highway upon which Jesus could travel. He was really talking about the hearts of the people. He was calling people to prepare their hearts to receive Jesus so that he could walk among them and live with them.

During this special season of the year when we celebrate Jesus' birth and look forward to the day when he will come again, you and I need to make sure that we are ready. We need to look into our hearts and ask God to make our crooked ways straight and smooth out the rough places. Oh, I know, we have done it before, but it is just like that highway to grandmother's house, the job is never finished. Every day we do things that we shouldn't do and we need to ask God to forgive us and to make our hearts clean.

Dear Father, prepare our hearts for Jesus' return. Make our crooked ways straight and our rough places smooth. Amen.

57971  Entertainment / Computer Hardware and Software / Firefox 1.5 released today on: November 29, 2005, 01:17:01 PM
By Elizabeth Montalbano, IDG News Service

The new version of Firefox will be available for download later today.

After a host of test releases and one false start, version 1.5 of the open-source browser will be ready this afternoon US pacific standard time - evening UK time.

A release outlining its new features, as well as some additional news from the Mozilla Foundation, will be issued tomorrow. The browser will be available for free at www.getfirefox.com and www.mozilla.com.

The browser will include an improved updating system, faster navigation using the "Back" and "Forward" tabs, and a redesigned Options/Preferences window that increases the number of category icons and moves them from the left side of the window to the top.

Firefox 1.5 also adds support for Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG), JavaScript 1.6 and new versions of CSS (Cascading Style Sheets).

The update includes better pop-up blocking and a host of security improvements, plus the addition of Answers.com to Firefox's list of search engines and a Clear Private Data function that allows users to quickly remove personal data through a menu item or keyboard shortcut.

57972  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Prophecy, Drought, Earthquakes, Famine, Pestilence, War, and Strange Weather. on: November 29, 2005, 12:03:00 PM
Tropical Storm Epsilon Forms in Atlantic


Tuesday November 29, 2005 3:31 PM

MIAMI (AP) - Tropical Storm Epsilon formed Tuesday in the central Atlantic, where it was a threat only to shipping, forecasters said.

The 26th named storm of the busiest Atlantic hurricane season on record was expected to be absorbed by other weather systems and shouldn't affect land, said Jennifer Pralgo, a meteorologist at the National Hurricane Center in Miami.

At 10 a.m. EST, Epsilon had top sustained wind of about 45 mph. It was centered about 845 miles east of Bermuda and about 1,395 miles west of the Azores Islands. It was moving west near 8 mph and was expected to continue that movement for at least 24 hours.

The six-month Atlantic hurricane season ends Wednesday, but forecasters warn that tropical storms and hurricanes can develop in December.

57973  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Prophecy, Drought, Earthquakes, Famine, Pestilence, War, and Strange Weather. on: November 29, 2005, 11:59:36 AM
 Tropical storm batters Canaries
A tropical storm has lashed the Canary Islands, killing at least seven people and leaving a trail of destruction.

Many people are still without electricity, while some roads have been blocked by fallen trees and landslides.

At least six African migrants drowned when waves engulfed their makeshift boat. A man also died after being blown off his roof on Fuerteventura.

Winds gusted at up to 200 km/h (124 miles per hour) in parts of Tenerife, disrupting public services.

57974  Theology / Prophecy - Current Events / Re:Prophecy, Drought, Earthquakes, Famine, Pestilence, War, and Strange Weather. on: November 29, 2005, 11:58:29 AM
Snowstorm Knocks Out Power Across Plains

Snowstorm Slams Across the Plains Knocking Out Power for Thousands and Closing Roads

BISMARCK, N.D. Nov 29, 2005 — Broad areas of the Dakotas remained shut down Tuesday by the Plains' first blizzard of the season, with highways closed by blowing, drifting snow and thousands of people without electricity as temperatures hit the low teens.

Five deaths had been blamed on slippery roads in Minnesota, South Dakota, Nebraska and Kansas. A sixth person was killed by a tornado spun off by the huge storm system in Arkansas.

Travelers trying to get home after Thanksgiving had been stranded in hotels, truck stops and churches across the Plains.

The storm was heading toward the Great Lakes on Tuesday after dumping snow as far south as the Texas Panhandle. As much as 20 inches of snow fell at Kennebec, S.D., while Chamberlain, S.D., was choked by drifts up to 8 feet high.

The snow, ice up to 5 inches thick and wind gusting to 70 mph had snapped power lines.

Utility officials estimated that 50,000 customers were blacked out across eastern South Dakota on Tuesday, and many communities in North Dakota also had no electricity. The morning's low at Grand Forks, N.D., was 14 degrees.

Power companies in North Dakota said it could take days to restore power because the storm tore down major transmission lines.

Firefighters in Fairmount, N.D., offered the town's roughly 400 residents rides to the community center, which has a backup generator, but the blackout also shut down the town's pumps.

"We still have water but it's getting pretty low here," Fairmount Fire Chief Dave Jacobson said.

Utility crews were out early Tuesday working to restore electricity in northwestern Minnesota.

"Bless 'em, they're just the cavalry," said Chris Kling, a spokeswoman for Otter Tail Power Co.

At Hankinson, N.D., people took refuge at the Dakota Magic Casino, which also has its own generator, said customer service representative Cheri Braun. "Our hotel can't hold any more," she said.

Interstate 94 remained shut Tuesday by poor visibility and icy pavement for about 100 miles across eastern North Dakota from Fargo to Jamestown, and I-29 was barricaded from Fargo to Watertown, S.D., a stretch of about 140 miles. About 200 miles of east-west I-90 remained closed across central South Dakota from Mitchell to Kadoka.

Farther south, however, Colorado and Kansas had reopened more than 400 miles of eastbound I-70 between Denver and Salina, Kan., after two days. To the east, Minnesota had reopened I-94 east of the North Dakota line.

Almost 1,000 people spent Sunday night in shelters along I-70 in Kansas, including more than 200 on cots and exercise mats at Fort Hays State University in Hays, officials said.

Among those at Fort Hays State were Mike and Ilona Dorsey, returning to Denver after visiting relatives in Topeka.

"We stopped at every town from Colby to here and couldn't get a hotel," Dorsey told The Hays Daily News. "Everything was filled."

Numerous other highways also remained closed in the Dakotas, as well as eastern Colorado and northwest Kansas.

The same storm whipped up tornadoes that destroyed at least eight homes in Arkansas on Sunday and damaged more than 30 homes at Fort Riley, Kan.

The storm was retaining most of its clout as it headed toward the Great Lakes, said National Weather Service meteorologist Fred Stasser of Goodland, Kan.

"I would imagine they're going to get some of the same sort of deal," he said.

57975  Entertainment / Politics and Political Issues / Abortion Case Offers U.S. Chief Justice Chance to Reshape Law on: November 29, 2005, 11:50:16 AM


Nov. 29 (Bloomberg) -- New U.S. Chief Justice John Roberts will get his first chance to rule on abortion with a case that may insulate parental-notification laws and other restrictions from legal challenges.

The appeal by the state of New Hampshire, set for argument tomorrow in Washington, argues that bids to invalidate abortion restrictions must meet a tough legal standard that applies in other types of cases. The state and the Bush administration say abortion laws should be overturned only if they can't ever be applied in a constitutional manner.

The court's ruling ``could either open the floodgates or shut them when it comes to abortion litigation,'' Mathew Staver, president of Liberty Counsel, an anti-abortion group in Orlando, Florida, said in an interview.

The case illustrates how the Roberts court could allow more restrictions on abortion without overturning the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that legalized the procedure nationwide. Both Roberts and Judge Samuel Alito, the nominee to succeed retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, worked on legal efforts to limit abortion rights as attorneys in Republican administrations.

``It's not just an on-off question about whether there's a constitutional right to abortion,'' Mary Cheh, a law professor at George Washington University in Washington, said in an interview. ``If there is such a constitutional right, to what extent is it actually protected? And how far can a state go in regulating it?''

Alito and Kennedy

The case is the first Supreme Court abortion fight since 2000 and just the second since the 1992 Planned Parenthood v. Casey decision reaffirmed the constitutional protection. The court soon will consider whether to add a second case, the Bush administration's bid to revive a federal ban on a procedure critics call ``partial birth'' abortion.

Alito, whose nomination to succeed O'Connor is scheduled for Senate consideration in January, ultimately may take part in both cases. O'Connor says she will step down as soon as her successor is confirmed, and she can't participate in decisions issued after she retires, even if she took part in the argument.

Should the other eight justices be evenly split on the New Hampshire case, the court may order the case reargued with Alito on the bench.

Whether that happens likely will depend on the vote of Justice Anthony Kennedy, according to Douglas Kmiec, a law professor at Pepperdine University in Malibu, California. Kennedy joined the majority in upholding the right to abortion in the 1992 case, then voted to allow restrictions in 2000.

`Turns on Kennedy'

``The case turns on Kennedy,'' Kmiec said in an interview. ``I don't think Justice O'Connor will be present when the court's decision is issued. So her vote is no longer one that is in the calculus.''

The New Hampshire law, which has never taken effect, would require parental notification 48 hours before a minor undergoes an abortion. Judges could allow an abortion without a parent being told if it ``would be in her best interests'' or if the girl is ``mature and capable of giving informed consent.''

An exception would allow the procedure without parental notice or permission from a judge if needed to prevent the girl's death. There's no exception if an abortion is needed to protect against damage to her health short of death.

Planned Parenthood of Northern New England and other women's health clinics are challenging the law. They contend that past high court decisions require abortion restrictions to have an explicit health exception.

`Change the Rules'

New Hampshire is ``asking the court to do something radical, asking the court to change the rules so that there would no longer be a requirement that abortion laws protect a woman's health,'' Louise Melling, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Reproductive Freedom Project, which is representing the clinics, said in an interview.

The Boston-based 1st U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals barred the law from taking effect, upholding a lower court decision.

In his brief for the Bush administration, U.S. Solicitor General Paul Clement said the challengers failed to show that emergency health risks would arise in ``more than a small fraction of the cases to which the statute applies.''

New Hampshire Attorney General Kelly A. Ayotte says the judicial-bypass procedure adequately protects the mother's health.

``Certainly, if an abortion is necessary for the preservation of the health or life of the minor, it would be in the pregnant minor's best interest and a court would authorize the procedure within minutes, if necessary,'' Ayotte argued in court papers.

`Facial' Challenges

Abortion opponents also are making a more sweeping argument that would make it harder to lodge ``facial'' challenges to abortion laws -- those that seek to invalidate an entire law without waiting for it to be applied to a particular person.

They want the court to allow facial challenges only when there is ``no set of circumstances'' under which the law could be applied in a valid manner. That standard, dubbed the ``Salerno'' rule after a 1987 case, applies in most other contexts.

``The question is whether there should be an abortion exception'' to that rule, Staver said. He said laws shouldn't be struck down ``because of some remote, hypothetical application that may be impermissible.''

The court declined to impose the Salerno standard in its last two abortion cases. Reproductive-rights advocates say the impact of the rule would be devastating because case-by-case litigation isn't a realistic option in abortion cases.

``It would mean a doctor would have to wait until a teen faced a medical emergency,'' Melling said. ``In that case the doctor, instead of going to a hospital, would have to go to court.''

The case is Ayotte v. Planned Parenthood of Northern New England, 04-1144.
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