[do]

SelahJoy,

There is a movement today that is teaching this message. Some take it so far as to say that all will go to heaven for this reason.

The Bible is quite clear in its message of the Gospel and what we must do to be saved.

Joh 3:7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.  

Luk 13:5  I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

1Jo 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I've heard of that teaching but I don't think that is the stand this preacher takes.  He is RC Schroll (spelling?).  Perhaps his overall message is that of the sovereignty of God, His works, not ours, that saves.  I would agree with that.

However, the Bible has passages both Old Testament and New in which people are exhorted to do something, be it confess by mouth, or sell all their stuff, or walk away from something and follow Jesus...

My point is that each person must make choices.  That doesn't mean that he deserves it anymore than the one who declines it.  For example, the two thieves on the cross.  They both deserved eternal separation from God,  but one accepted the free gift of God and the other one didn't.

I know it is difficult for works-based Christians to weed out the works mentality (I was raised in a works based religion with assigned days, and various rituals to observe regularly, and worst of all, if you sinned two minutes ago, you are now damned to hell--until ten minutes from now when you repent...which gets you salvation until you sin the next time...at which point you better repent real fast or you'll go to hell until you repent again...

That kind of theology is not Biblical.  I believe a closer-to-God's-heart way of rightly dividing His word is to understand that He desires all to come to Him.  He knows all will not.  Those who attain eternal relationship with God have a heart transplant.  They do something; they confess Jesus as God, Lord of all creation.  They hunger to know Him better which leads them to learn from the ancient writings we call the Bible.

When I heard RCS preach, I got a sense of awe and humility before the soveriegn God.  I appreciate that realization and want to meditate upon His word and receive all that God wants me to  know.

RCS pointed out that God chose Jacob, not Esau.  To me, that is an example of many other "why" and "why not" questions that we could ask our Lord.  But to me, this is more an example of the sovereignty of God in relation to one becoming this and another becoming that.  After all, we can't all be Esther or Joseph.  We can't all be called like Samson or Moses were, but we are all called to be His elected saved ones.  I believe even Pharoah could have been saved, if he had chosen it.  However, once he hardened his heart a number of times, God turned him over to his evil, carnal thinking.

Theology sure can get thick, can't it?  I prefer to remember my testimony.  I came to accept Jesus as God and left my future up to Him.  Because of the way I was raised, I figured if He felt heaven would be a better place without me, that was His perogotive.  However, I asked Him to let me get to be as close to Him as possible that day, which has turned into today, and right now.  Several years into my relationship with the Lord, a sister was praying for me and she felt Psalm 23 was for me.  She expounded upon it.  Later that same week, someone else prayed for me and she used the same text and said much the same thing!  I was touched, and the words, "...will dwell in the house of the Lord forever" stood out to me.  Tears fell down.  I didn't realize it up to that point, but apparently I had not known the assurance that He wanted me to live with Him forever in heaven.  But at that time, I for the first time, had a testimony of the fact that He invited me to the best family reunion ever!  I was overwhelmed, and happy to accept his invitation!

I don't know the literal theology that fits, but that's my testimony.  Now, I pray for others to know Him too.  By the way, THAT, I believe, is the most powerful testimony of Christianity in the world!  That Jesus can take humans who are innately selfish and make them look outward at others.  Further, that He can take offended souls and convince them to refuse to be offended, but to love others--even their enemies!  What an awesome religion!  

Thanks for reading, and if you know stuff that I should, I am so open to you, whether you are PR or whoeveryouare, please write to me.  Thank you,
selahjoy*

If you are talking about R.C. Sproul, he is a true Christian. in his books he quotes the same scriptures given here by Pastor Rogers.
What exactly are you saying that Dr. Sproul teaches?
Maybe we are not talking about the same person.

God bless,
bluelake

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/features/20050616-9999-lz1c16crystal.html
I'm curious about this board's reaction to this Crystal Cathedral production.

I don't know anything about this church. What is their doctrine?

bluelake

Hello everyone,
I like all of your answers. They refer to Ps22, where Jesus was quoting that passage. When he took the sins of the world upon himself causing  him great anguish ,to be separated from God the Father. Jesus suffered this double death for us so we wouldn't have to. He took our place on the cross.

Praise his Holy Name. Wonderful Savior.

God bless,
bluelake

As a Christian, how would you define the doctrine of the Trinity?

Blessings,
bluelake

There is much said about the gift of tongues in 1st Corinthians chapters 12-14.  Read these chapters over.  This explains what might be going on in some churches today.  However, some people want this gift so badly, they become good at faking it.  They just babble and disrupt the worship service.  There should be someone to translate and only one person should be speaking at a time.  

Acts 2 tells about the Apostles receiving the gift and being able to speak with people hearing them in their own language.   This seems more useful to me.  I haven't heard about that happening in any church today.  Some people do indeed have a gift for learning to speak foreign languages and speak well in public.  

I don't see any reference to tongues in Ephesians 4.  

 

Well said M,

I grew up in a Pentecostal church.  ( almost 60 years ago) Blessed to have been in a great Sunday school every week, Wednesday nite bible study, Sunday nite service, So very blessed to be a Pentecostal pastors kid,  .

I grew with tongues as a part of every day life in our home and church it was commonplace. I watched and learned i saw the lives folks led. I saw the "i speak in tongues so i am more spiritual than you" I saw wonderful (the term used at that time was) "God fearin” Christians live the Christian life. I have seen folks turn the tongues off and on like a switch. I was shocked to learn “ prayer language”  is not a scriptural term. Nor do I find “prayer language’ to be implied in scritpure. As for being new at it .... Isn't it a gift, there for not something learned?

As time went on I watched Daddy (the most Christ like man i ever knew) unconsciously ease back from the display of tongues as he became deeper in the Word. The more Christ like he grew, the less tongues.  As tongues was for the young church maybe tongues is needed for some young Christians.  I think of this then I know also there is not a  scriptural bases for “heavenly language”  Mind you I know

 1 Cor 13:1
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.


I just don’t believe it applies as many of us wish it did.  After saying much in the negative this is the scripture I will end with..


1 Cor 14:39

39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
KJV  

Reba,
Thank you for your post. Is your church the UPCI? There is more than one Pentecostal type as you know. Their doctrine varies on certain issues.

I'm aware of some, that do fake tongues. They want so desparately to fit in. How sad. Also the spiritual pride exists.

God bless you,
bluelake

The last movie I went to see was The Passion of the Christ.
It was a emotional draining experience. When I think of how Mel Gibson presented the agony of what Christ did for us on the cross, I think of the horrible sins in the world that had to be covered.
I purchsed the movie, but I still can't bring myself watch it again.
Did anyone here see this movie? If so , what is your opinion?

God bless,
bluelake

The tongues that is present today within the christian community is not of God.  The reason tongues was given was for the proclamation of the Gospel by the disicples who did not know the language of the nation they would be sharing with.

There is no scriptural proof for a personal prayer language.  When one is a believer in Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit indwells fully.  It is by God's Spirit that we are transformed and renewed by a refining process to do His will.  Speaking in tongues has nothing to do with this.  There is no power associated with tongues and this is not presented anywhere in Scripture.

Here is a link that gives the history of tongues in this country, where it originated from, and why it is not of God.

http://www.seekgod.ca/topicwaves.htm#tongues

imho, tongues is nothing more than a way for one to believe they are doing something to enhance their relationship with God.  It is an age old problem.  Rather than relying fully on God for His ability to grace us with insight and knowledge, man has fallen into pride and elevating his own "spirituality" to do something "for" God that He does not need and does not want.

shalom, nana

nana,
The link that you gave does not give a statement of their faith. Do you know who they are?
The tongues spoken today are glossolia.
 I have never heard of anyone speaking a real language. The term 'prayer language' isn't found in scripture. At least I don't think they use that term. Do you know?

God bless,
bluelake

  Growing up I attended different types of churches, Babtist, Holliness Babtist, Methodist...etc...  I never really thought much about talking in tounges then. Now grown, saved recently, I am learning alot of things old and new. This is a subject I don't understand. I even researched on the internet, but I didnt get an answer. Is speaking in tougnes a gift from God....and all have the gift to do it? Or is it not that at all. Please share your views with me.  

Glory,
there is some controversy about speaking in tongues. It occured at Pentecost in chapter 2 of Acts. These folks spoke in actual languages. Again in Acts 10:44 and Acts 19:6 These folks were all believers when they received this gift.
In the early church God was using signs to get the attention of certain people. Today we have the Bible.
You may want to read 1Cor.14 also 1Cor.12:28-30
Some churches teach that tongues are a required event to prove that a person is saved. That isn't true. We are saved by grace. Eph.2:8-9
The Bible also tells us that not all will speak in tongues.
The Holy Spirit gives His gifts as He determines. 1Cor.12:3
 Please read these scriptures. it will answer a few of your questions.

God bless you,
bluelake

[Scientology differs from Biblical Christianity on every important doctrine.]

Scientology is a very difficult religion to summarize in just a few paragraphs, let alone in a few pages. It was founded in 1953 by fiction author L. Ron Hubbard, just four years after he made the statement, "I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is," to Lloyd Eshbach; quoted by Eshbach in Over My Shoulder. That's where he found wealth, also--Hubbard is a multi-millionaire today. An easier question to ask would be, "What are the similarities between Christianity and Scientology?" The answer to that would be, "There are no similarities."

Scientology teaches that mankind is an immortal being (called a Thetan) not originally from this planet that is trapped by matter, energy, space, and time (MEST). Salvation for a Scientologist comes through a process called 'auditing,' whereby 'engrams' (basically, memories of past pain and unconsciousness that create energy blockage) are removed. Auditing is a very lengthy process and can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. When all engrams are finally removed, the Thetan can once again control MEST instead of being controlled by it. Until salvation, each Thetan is constantly reincarnated.

Scientology is a very expensive religion to associate with. Every aspect of Scientology has some sort of fee associated with it. This is why Scientology's "pews" are filled only with the wealthy. It is also a very strict religion, and very punitive against those who would try to leave behind its teachings and membership. Its "scriptures" are limited solely to the writings and teachings of L. Ron Hubbard.

Scientology is, without a doubt, a cult: Its teachings are taken from science fiction and eastern mythologies; It promotes man as the ultimate power in the universe--he just hasn't realized it yet; Salvation comes through an extremely expensive process of mind games; and it categorically denies the existence of God, Heaven, and Hell. To a Scientologist, Jesus Christ was just another nice guy who unfortunately was wrongfully put to death, and whose story ends at that death.

Though Scientologist will claim that Scientology is compatible with Christianity, the Bible counters each and every point of belief they hold to: God is the sovereign and only creator of the universe (Genesis 1:1); Mankind was created by God (Genesis 1:27); the only salvation available to man is by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ (Philippians 2:; salvation is a free gift that mankind can do nothing to earn (Philippians 2:8-9); and Jesus Christ is alive and well, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father even now (Acts 2:33; Ephesians 1:20; Hebrews 1:3), awaiting the time when He will gather His children to Himself to reside with Him for eternity in Heaven. Everybody else will be cast into a very real Hell, separated from God (Revelation 20:15).

Scientology differs from Biblical Christianity on every important doctrine.  Some of the most important differences are summarized below.

God:  Scientology believes that there are multiple Gods and that some gods are above other gods.  Biblical Christianity on the other hand recognizes the One and Only True God who reveled Himself to us in the Bible.  There is only one true God and He has reveled himself to us through the Bible and through Jesus Christ.  Those that believe in Him cannot believe the false concept of God as taught in Scientology.

Jesus Christ:  Like almost all other cults Scientology denies the deity of Christ. Instead of having a biblical view of who Christ is and what He did they assign to Him the characteristics of some sort of lesser God who has obtained a sort of legendary status over the years.  On the other hand the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus was God in the flesh and through His incarnation He could act as a sacrifice for our sins.  It is through Christ’s death and resurrection that we can have the hope of eternal life with God.

Sin: Scientology believes in the inherent goodness of man and that “It is despicable and utterly beneath contempt to tell a man he must repent, that he is evil.” On the other hand the Bible teaches that man is a sinner and the only hope for him is that he repent of his sins and acknowledge Christ as his Lord and Savior.

Salvation: Scientology believes in reincarnation and that personal salvation in ones lifetime is freedom from the cycle of birth and death associated with reincarnation.  They believe that religious practice of all faiths is the universal way to wisdom, understanding and salvation.  On the other hand the Bible teaches that there is only one way of salvation and that is through Jesus Christ.  Jesus himself said “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6.

When one looks at the teaching of Scientology in comparison with the Bible they will see that the two have little if anything in common.  Scientology will only lead you away from God and eternal life and the Bible will lead you to God and eternal life.  There is nothing to gain by associating with scientology and everything to lose.

http://www.gotquestions.org/scientology-Christian-cult.html

Dreamweaver,
thanks for the stimulating report on Scientology. I was just thinking about them today. I read an article about John Travolta and his wife. They are members of this cult. How absolutely sad.

Thanks again.

bluelake

I'm was just curious, and would like to find out what everyone thinks you must do to be saved. Please give scriptural proof.

php,
How about you? What do you think salvation is?

God bless,
bluelake

perhaps,this work will explain ' modern-tongues';

http://www.seekgod.ca/fatherparham.htm

How many are oneness Pentecostals? That would explain your attitude of speaking in tongues.
Do you believe that a person must have this gift in order to be saved? If so, why?

God bless,
bluelake

[Quote by dmckay:]

Quote by dmckay:

The manifestation of tongues was as stated previously a sign for unbelievers to authenticate that the message and messenger were from God. An unknown tongue unless there is an interpreter present is nothing but a distraction and brings disorder to a worship service.

You are exactly correct, dmckay.  If there is no interpreter the speaker should keep quiet.  Those who speak in tongues, why do they do it without an interpreter?  Why do they contradict the bible and babble in front of other believers when no unbelievers are around and with no one to interpret?  Why isn’t anyone who speaks in tongues following 1Cor 14:13, which states that if a person speaks in tongues he should pray that he might interpret what he just said?  Kind of strange, eh?  Its aaaallll about emotion these days.

Thanks dmckay for your very informative posts here, for taking the time to bless me.  You certainly demonstrate that you are well grounded in this subject and in solid biblical Christianity.  Be blessed.

Silver

Silver,
I too agree with dmckay. Another reason being, if folks are speaking in languages today, why doesn't it sound like a language. What it is ,is glossolalia, which they refer to as heavenly language. This term isn't found in scripture. How can anyone , if they can interpret, do heavenly language.
At Pentecost this was as Jesus promised along with God the Father, he would send the Holy Spirit(Jn.14) into the world to give us power, power to witness.

God bless,
bluelake

Hi,

I need some help. OK, I have a friend whose Muslim, right, and I tried talking to her about what I believe in, but she gave me a whole bunch of Bible quotes that say that Jesus wasn't God. I checked them and there real. for example:...She gave me about twenty verses like that, and I don't know how to rebuttle. Please help.

According to Thayer's Lexicon, the verdict on the diety of Iesus is still out.  The reason being is that the NT is contradictory on the subject.
In fact, any supposed references to the diety of Iesus were added after the fact by scribes.

Raoooul,
I guess you didn't read all the passages from the Bible that were given here.
Do you know who Jesus is?

bluelake

Hi,

I need some help. OK, I have a friend whose Muslim, right, and I tried talking to her about what I believe in, but she gave me a whole bunch of Bible quotes that say that Jesus wasn't God. I checked them and there real. for example:

John 5:19 "So Jesus answered them 'I am telling you the truth: the Son can do nothing on his own; he does only what he sees his Father doing. What the Father does, the Son also does.'"

John 5:30-32 "'I can do nothing on my own authority; I judge only as God tells me, so my judgement is right, because I am not trying to do what I want, but only what he who sent me wants. If I testify on my own behalf, what I say is not to be accepted as real proof. But there is another who testifies on my behalf, and I know that what He says about Me is true.'"

Luke 18:19 "'Why do you call me good?" Jesus asked him. "No one is good except God alone'"

She gave me about twenty verses like that, and I don't know how to rebuttle. Please help.

Thanx,
hihellowhatsup

Heb.1:8
 God says, "But about the Son he says, "Your throne O God will last for ever and ever."
Mt. 1:23 "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a Son, and they will call Him Emmanuel, which means, "God with us." 1Jn.5:20 Jesus is true God. Jn.8:58 "I tell you the truth, "Jesus answered, "Before Abraham was, I am."  Also, Please read, Jn.1:1-3,14

God bless you,
bluelake

Gary,
You didn't reply to my question about glossolalia and angelic utterances.
The passages concerning drinking poison and picking up snakes? How do you interpret these passages?

Blessings,
bluelake