CHRIST OR the devil

[Bronzesnake]

Mrs Chosen quote...

 

bRONZE YOU ARE LIKE NO HELP AT ALL TO ME BECAUSE YOU ONLY GIVE ME WHAT YOU WANT . IVE SAID OK YOU SAY THIS, BUT CAN YOU HELP ME WITH THESE SCRIPTURES AND WHAT THEY MEAN?

So why have you left me hanging? I posted these scriptures more that twice and I'm just asking that you break them down for me like you've done with the others, yet again you just by past.
Like you keep posting the book of Genn. but you won't help me with the scriptures I'm asking you to to explain

 Hello my firey sister!  

 I did see any question in your last post. I did see some rather suggestive headings posted above a couple of verses.
such as this one...

 

Apparent Failure of the promises to ISRAEL explained by their unbelief

 What's that heading sugesting? That God's promise was a failure?

 Look, Lisa, my sister - The verse you posted under that heading is Romans 10:1-4

 I'm not sure what the question is, but I'll explain the verse AGAIN.

 I have posted many verses which explain that the Jews were CHOSEN by God and God made an EXCLUSIVE, SPECIAL PROMISE with the JEWS ONLY. God PROMISED the JEWS that they would ALL be FORGIVEN and SAVED. God also pointed out that in order for the rest of the world to be saved the JEWS would STUMBLE (NOT FALL) Jesus came from JEWISH BLOODLINES JESUS HAD TO BE REJECTED by the JEWS otherwise HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED and that would leave us GENTILES in a rather scarry position.

 The verses you posted are proof that the JEWS had indeed STUMBLED otherwise why would Paul be making such a plea for ISRAEL (JEWS not LAND...Reba) I am not denying that the Jews have rejected Jesus - I'm telling you that it was God's plan that the Jews would STUMBLE and reject Jesus - As I said, if they hadn't have done that we would be doomed.

 What you have done, Lisa, is a made classical mistake which we Christians often do. You have taken out one or two verses and used them out of context. Read the rest of Romans 10 then read Romans 11. That will put everything into it's proper perspective.

 I will post a couple of relevent verses from Romans 11 (AGAIN!) which wrap up the verses you posted from Romans 10.

 Please pay attention!  

First of all, here are the verses you posted...

Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.  

Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.  

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.  

 Now if these verses were all there were on the subject of the Jews, then we would believe they were doomed...right?
These are only the begining of the story...here's the conclusion...

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.  

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
God has not broken His promis with (His people - Jews)  

Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.  

Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.  
These Jews have remained faithful to God - but God also discusses the rest of the Jews in the following verse...

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.  
These are the unfaithful Jews - notice how God says they are  under grace?

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
This verse explains that God has not rejected these unfaithful Jews - That they are under grace - God has a plan in mind for these Jews as you will see shortly.

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
God is telling us that the faithful Jews  "hath obtained it" and the rest were "blinded" not of their own accord, but they were blinded by God, so that His plan could be fulfilled - as you will see...

To Continue...

[Bronzesnake]

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.  
God caused them to be "blinded"

Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:  

Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
God's will be done.  

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
This is the reason why God "blinded" the Jews Lisa. God says very clearly that the Jews have not "stumbled" so they should end up in the Lake of Fire - they were "tripped" by God, so that they would not recognise Jesus - that way, Jesus was rejected by His CHOSEN PEOPLE and crucified - so that we GENTILES could be included into God's covenant with the JEWS.

Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?  
God keeps hammering the Truth of His CHOSEN PEOPLE home, so tha we Gentiles can understand that we are only saved because God ADDED us into the tree of His CHOSEN PEOPLE. God is saying. If their downfall has resulted in salvation for the Gentiles - if their misery is a free ticket for Gentiles to be saved - then how much GREATER will their (JEWS) reward be? Does this sound like the Jews are going to the Lake of Fire to you Lisa?

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:  

Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.  

Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?  
Do you understand what Paul is saying here Lisa?
He says that - if the blindness and casting away of the Jews has resulted in Gentiles receiving a chance at salvation - then how much greater it will be when we WELCOME the JEWS!

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches.  
The Jews are the root - the Gentiles are the grafted in branches. So, we are made Holy because of the root.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Here again we are reminded that we are "partakers" not surplanters.  

Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.  
We are warned not to be arrogant against the JEWS - We are AGAIN told - it is because of the "root" that the "branches" exist - not the other way around.

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
The JEWS were "blinded" so that the GENTILES could see The Light. God keeps reinforcing this Lisa.  

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:  
Another warning - It is because the JEWS "stumbled" that we are able to receive salvation - DON'T BE ARROGANT!

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.  
If God broke His promise to His CHOSEN PEOPLE - What makes us so sure He won't do the same to us? (This is a rhetorical question Lisa, but it drives the Truth home.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.  

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
The Jews will be grafted back in.  

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree?  

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.  

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
This is the culmination of all these verses Lisa. These verses lay out God's plan for all mankind THROUGH THE JEWS.

Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.  

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.  

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.  

Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:  

Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.  

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.  

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!  

Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?  

Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?  

Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, [are] all things: to whom [be] glory for ever. Amen.  

 Do you understand it now my sister?

Bronzsnake

[Mrs.Chosen]

Quote"The JEWS were "blinded" so that the GENTILES could see The Light. God keeps reinforcing this Lisa. "

Bronze the word WERE seems to be past tence in this statement. I know you can not believe that GOD is today putting the blinders on the jews that are being born today.
Salvation has come to us. You are saying GOD is still blinding His people? Okay? So?

You posted
"Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
The Jews will be grafted back in.  "

There is a very important key word in this scipture that you must have ignored completly. Now you posted this verse yet have you any understanding of it?
The key word here is IF. If the abide not still in unbelief, shall be... If means IF. They have a choise. GOD does not have the blinders on anyone today! GOD is not forsing anyone not to see HIM in 2005. Can you come to date with me? God wanted everyone to see that body of water swallow up all of those people. That caused many to wake up I'm sure.
Anyway I wonder what your study Bible has to say on these vearses.
I have the New King James Version Study Bible. I don't know if that is one of your choise, but it is very good.

In reference to these vearse (Romans 11:26)
"And so: That is, "in this way, in the process just described."
 ALL ISRAEL does not mean that every jewish person who has ever lived will be saved, for Paul does not teach that (see 10:2,3). The term must be understood in the same sence as "the fullness of the Gentiles" Paul is therefore speaking in a collective sence."

A very good study Bible is truely helpfull in trying to understand what scriptures mean.

The word of GOD is awesome!!!

[Reba]

Rom 11:26

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
KJV


The scripture clearly states  'all Israel'  why does that bother you so much?

Who is man to change the Word of God?

THe Word  says what it says. Why not just completely trust in His word? Accepting  the word for what it says, Again i ask who is man to change the Word of God?

I know the some of the meanings and uses of the word Israel but that does not give man the freedom to change Gods use of the word at mans will. I dont understand why 'Bible Students' (using that term loosly) feel they have the right to exchange the Words the Holy Spirit inspired.  To change the word Israel to Jew is not in the same catagory as changing  saith to say.

[Bronzesnake]

Rom 11:26

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
KJV


The scripture clearly states  'all Israel'  why does that bother you so much?

Who is man to change the Word of God?

THe Word  says what it says. Why not just completely trust in His word? Accepting  the word for what it says, Again i ask who is man to change the Word of God?

I know the some of the meanings and uses of the word Israel but that does not give man the freedom to change Gods use of the word at mans will. I dont understand why 'Bible Students' (using that term loosly) feel they have the right to exchange the Words the Holy Spirit inspired.  To change the word Israel to Jew is not in the same catagory as changing  saith to say.

 Reba.

First of all. I am surprised that you feel the need to insult me with the reference to 'Bible Students' (using that term loosely)
Have I even once insulted you like that? We may disagree without that kind of digression my friend.  

God changed Jacob's name to Israel. Jacob was the first "Jew" the land of Canaan was renamed after Jacob (Israel)

 When the scriptures say "all Israel" it is a direct and unmistakable reference to all Jews. Even the most average "Bible student" should know this.

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

 Please explain that verse to me.

Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.  

 Reba.
Please read the following verses and ask yourself if God is actually speaking of people or rocks and dirt.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
 How can rocks and dirt be accused of being ungodly Reba?
Does Jesus (The Deliverer) actually come to save people? or rocks and dirt Reba?

Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.  

 "them" and "Their" are terms used to describe people, not rocks and dirt Reba.

 Please be patient with me while I do a wee experiment.

 I will substitute the word Israel for rocks and dirt in these verses - then, I will substitute the word Israel for Jews.

 Let's see which one makes the most sense.

Now, if I believe Israel in the context of these verses really means the country, then this is how these scriptures would look...

Rom 11:26 And so all rocks and dirt shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from rocks and dirt:
 
Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto the rocks and dirt, when I shall take away the rocks and dirt's sins.  

 If I understand the word Israel to mean the Jews, then this is how these verses would look...

Rom 11:26 And so all Jews shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from the Jews:  

Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto the Jews, when I shall take away sins from the Jews.  

 It's obvious that these verses are directed toward people - not land. We know the people are Jews, because they are identified as the people who God made His covenant with - The Jews.

Bronzesnake

[Bronzesnake]

Mrs Chosen quote...

Bronze the word WERE seems to be past tence in this statement. I know you can not believe that GOD is today putting the blinders on the jews that are being born today.
Salvation has come to us. You are saying GOD is still blinding His people? Okay? So?

 Yes, I do believe that. God says they will remain in that state until "the fullness of the Gentiles" The fullness of the Gentiles is the Second Coming. Jews can accept Jesus, and those who do will be Raptured - those who do not will accept Jesus during the Tribulation.

 I have stated this stuff over and over Lisa. If you don't, can't, or won't try to understand the scriptures I posted regarding the Jews and God's promise to them, then I can not help you.

M.C. quote...

You posted
"Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
The Jews will be grafted back in.  "

There is a very important key word in this scipture that you must have ignored completly. Now you posted this verse yet have you any understanding of it?

Here we go again taking a single verse out of context and adding a false message to it. If you read through the ENTIRE verses, you will understand that verse Lisa.

 I didn't think I had to explain every detail to you Lisa - if you read and understood the Romans scriptures in their entirety, you would understand that God says THE JEWS WILL BE FORGIVEN AND SAVED - THEREFORE THEY WILL NOT REMAIN IN UNBELIEF. THE WHOLE LESSON OF THAT VERSE IS DIRECTED AT US GENTILES - GOD IS TELLING US THAT HE CAN AND WILL SAVE THE JEWS REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE BELIEVE.

GOD does not have the blinders on anyone today!

That's not what God says Lisa.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 See? God syas the Jews will remain blinded until the second coming.

Should I believe you or God Lisa?

In reference to these vearse (Romans 11:26)
"And so: That is, "in this way, in the process just described."
 ALL ISRAEL does not mean that every jewish person who has ever lived will be saved, for Paul does not teach that (see 10:2,3). The term must be understood in the same sence as "the fullness of the Gentiles" Paul is therefore speaking in a collective sence."

You obviously don't understand the term "the fullness of the Gentiles" That term is used to convey the fulfillment of the Gentiles salvation. Are you telling me that there will be no more Gentiles saved? Is Jesus' house full? - has the harvest already come and gone? of course it hasn't! There is still time for many Gentile people to be saved - There will come a time when it is too late - That time is known as "the fullness of the Gentiles"

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:  

 What does that verse say Lisa? does it say "all faithful Jews shall be saved"? or does it say "some of the Jews shall be saved - or does it say "ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"?

But why are the Jews so special? we complain...and God says the following...
Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 That's it! I am done! You can deny all these scriptures - you can continue to pick out verses and use them out of context all you like. God's Will Be Done whether we like it or not - whether we understand it or not - whether we think it's fair or not - ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED. So says Almighty God.

Bronzesnake

[Bronzesnake]

Reba and Lisa...

 I'm wondering why neither of you two ladies have replied to the "How Can We Trust God If" thread....hmmm  

Bronzesnake

[Reba]

Reba.

First of all. I am surprised that you feel the need to insult me with the reference to 'Bible Students' (using that term loosely)

Before i even read farther this was not an insult... by loosly i simply ment most of us are not students of some Bible college. nothing more nothing less.
 

now back to the post

[Reba]

JEW

Jew

— the name derived from the patriarch Judah, at first given to one belonging to the tribe of Judah or to the separate kingdom of Judah (2 Kings 16:6; 25:25; Jer 32:12; 38:19; 40:11; 41:3), in contradistinction from those belonging to the kingdom of the ten tribes, who were called Israelites.

During the Captivity, and after the Restoration, the name, however, was extended to all the Hebrew nation without distinction (Est 3:6,10; Dan 3:8,12; Ezra 4:12; 5:1,5).

Originally this people were called Hebrews (Gen 39:14; 40:15; Ex 2:7; 3:18; 5:3; 1 Sam 4:6,9, etc.), but after the Exile this name fell into disuse. But Paul was styled a Hebrew (2 Cor 11:22; Phil 3:5).

The history of the Jewish nation is interwoven with the history of Palestine and with the narratives of the lives of their rulers and chief men. They are now [1897] dispersed over all lands, and to this day remain a separate people, "without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image [R.V. 'pillar,' marg. 'obelisk'], and without an ephod, and without teraphim" (Hos 3:4). Till about the beginning of the present century [1800] they were everywhere greatly oppressed, and often cruelly persecuted; but now their condition is greatly improved, and they are admitted in most European countries to all the rights of free citizens. In 1860 the "Jewish disabilities" were removed, and they were admitted to a seat in the British Parliament. Their number in all is estimated at about six millions, about four millions being in Europe.

There are three names used in the New Testament to designate this people, (1.) Jews, as regards their nationality, to distinguish them from Gentiles. (2.) Hebrews, with regard to their language and education, to distinguish them from Hellenists, i.e., Jews who spoke the Greek language. (3.) Israelites, as respects their sacred privileges as the chosen people of God. "To other races we owe the splendid inheritance of modern civilization and secular culture; but the religious education of mankind has been the gift of the Jew alone."
(from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


(Jacob) Israel was not bibically called Jew. He was from his grandpa Abe (from the land of Ur then into Cannan) through Isaac . The 'Children of Israel' that  left Egypt were not called the 'Children of Jew' but the 'Children of Israel' I do not refer to Israel as the dirt or land just to the words the scriptures use, plain and simple. Once in a while when talking of modern Israel as in the post about the politics i use the word to mean the country. I will use the term "modern Israel" so there will be no father misunderstanding.


I my view a nation of people does not need to own land to be a nation. When the Children of Israel stopped "owning the land in" Goshen, so to speak, and became slaves to pharoah they were still a nation.  The  Jews at the time of Christ lived in Palistine under the control of Rome. The Children of the man Israel were still a nation. Long before the time of Christ they became known a Jews.

[Reba]

Reba.
Please read the following verses and ask yourself if God is actually speaking of people or rocks and dirt.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
How can rocks and dirt be accused of being ungodly Reba?
Does Jesus (The Deliverer) actually come to save people? or rocks and dirt Reba?

Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them
, when I shall take away their
sins.  

"them" and "Their" are terms used to describe people, not rocks and dirt Reba.

Please be patient with me while I do a wee experiment.

I will substitute the word Israel for rocks and dirt in these verses - then, I will substitute the word Israel for Jews.

Let's see which one makes the most sense.

Now, if I believe Israel in the context of these verses really means the country, then this is how these scriptures would look...

Rom 11:26 And so all rocks and dirt shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from rocks and dirt:

Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto the rocks and dirt, when I shall take away the rocks and dirt's sins.  

If I understand the word Israel to mean the Jews, then this is how these verses would look...

Rom 11:26 And so all Jews shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from the Jews:  

Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto the Jews, when I shall take away sins from the Jews.  

It's obvious that these verses are directed toward people - not land. We know the people are Jews, because they are identified as the people who God made His covenant with - The Jews.

Bronzesnake

Rocks and dirt are your words Bronze not mine i simply post the scriptures as God seen fit to have them written. In the topic at hand He uses the word Israel and you change it to Jew.

If I understand the word Israel to mean the Jews, then this is how these verses would look...

It is not about what you or i understand the word Israel to mean it is what God wrote. Had God wanted the word  Jew to be used He would have used it,  as He did in other locations.

[Bronzesnake]

That's fair enough Reba my sister. I wish I was as lucky as those rocks and dirt are going to be.

 If I refuse to understands what the Bible teaches, then the following verses are really going to be confusing...

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Just think of it - and actual real dragon with all those heads and horns and crowns!

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
I guess these "stars" aren't actually fallen angles - they are called "stars" so they must be suns! How big of a tail does this dragon have!  

 Bronzesnake

[Reba]

That's fair enough Reba my sister. I wish I was as lucky as those rocks and dirt are going to be.

 If I refuse to understands what the Bible teaches, then the following verses are really going to be confusing...

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Just think of it - and actual real dragon with all those heads and horns and crowns!

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
I guess these "stars" aren't actually fallen angles - they are called "stars" so they must be suns! How big of a tail does this dragon have!  

 Bronzesnake

Bronze you are mixing apples and oranges. Have a nice day.

[Bronzesnake]

That's fair enough Reba my sister. I wish I was as lucky as those rocks and dirt are going to be.

 If I refuse to understands what the Bible teaches, then the following verses are really going to be confusing...

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Just think of it - and actual real dragon with all those heads and horns and crowns!

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
I guess these "stars" aren't actually fallen angles - they are called "stars" so they must be suns! How big of a tail does this dragon have!  

 Bronzesnake

Bronze you are mixing apples and oranges. Have a nice day.

 I'm doing no such thing Reba. I made the point quite clearly. You said the word Israel as it is used in Romans wasn't a reference to the Jews, but rather the land. I proved that was not correct - unless you believe those verses are describing rocks and dirt being forgiven and saved - and rocks and dirt being referred to as "they" and "their"

You chose to take a single word literal with no regard at all to the context of the word based on the scriptural evidence which exposes what the word actually refers to.

 Therefore - the examples I gave from Revelation, are not a mixing of apples and oranges - they were used in the proper context in relation to your own set of paramaters Reba.

Have a nice day also.  

Bronzesnake

[Reba]

That's fair enough Reba my sister. I wish I was as lucky as those rocks and dirt are going to be.

 If I refuse to understands what the Bible teaches, then the following verses are really going to be confusing...

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Just think of it - and actual real dragon with all those heads and horns and crowns!

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
I guess these "stars" aren't actually fallen angles - they are called "stars" so they must be suns! How big of a tail does this dragon have!  

 Bronzesnake

Bronze you are mixing apples and oranges. Have a nice day.

 I'm doing no such thing Reba. I made the point quite clearly. You said the word Israel as it is used in Romans wasn't a reference to the Jews, but rather the land. I proved that was not correct - unless you believe those verses are describing rocks and dirt being forgiven and saved - and rocks and dirt being referred to as "they" and "their"

You chose to take a single word literal with no regard at all to the context of the word based on the scriptural evidence which exposes what the word actually refers to.

 Therefore - the examples I gave from Revelation, are not a mixing of apples and oranges - they were used in the proper context in relation to your own set of paramaters Reba.

Have a nice day also.  

Bronzesnake

Where did i say   You said "the word Israel as it is used in Romans wasn't a reference to the Jews".

Show me the post. You are mistaken Bronze.

[Bronzesnake]

Reba quote...

Where did i say  You said "the word Israel as it is used in Romans wasn't a reference to the Jews".

Show me the post. You are mistaken Bronze.

Now I am confused Reba.

 So, you agree then, that all Israel means all Jews?

 Bronzesnake