Is War With Iraq Justified?

[nChrist]

February 12, 2003

From Back To The Bible:
Notice the Date
http://www.backtothebible.org/

Is War With Iraq Justified? - Page 1
By Woodrow Kroll

by Dr. Woodrow Kroll - President and Bible Teacher

Unless you've been living in a cave the last few months, you are painfully aware that war with Iraq looms larger every day. Even if our European allies (who rarely agree with each other, let alone with the US) do not join Great Britain, Poland, the USA and others in disarming Saddam Hussein, it appears increasingly likely that within days or weeks we could again be at war with Iraq.

How are Christians to view this possibility? Should we gladly seek war to punish the atrocities of this tyrannical madman (after all, Saddam didn't hesitate to use chemical weapons against the Iranians or even against his own people)? Should we sit idly by and wait for the United Nations, which seems both inept and inert, to act?

One thing is certain. We should have no illusions about the behavior or intentions of the Iraqi government. Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi leadership have behaved badly and the regime must stop its internal repression, it must cease to be a constant threat to its neighbors, it must denounce terrorism and stop supporting terrorists, it must abandon its program to develop weapons of mass destruction, and it must destroy all such existing weapons. The UN Security Council has demanded these actions and Iraq has thumbed it's nose at that demand. Our genuine, heartfelt and urgent prayer is that Saddam will be removed from power and war will be averted, but that appears unlikely.

The issue is not really what we think but what is just. Does going to war with Saddam Hussein fit the criteria of justice? The idea of a "just war" is as old as warfare itself. The Bible even hints at ethical behavior in war and the concepts of fighting for a just cause, but the most systematic treatment of a just war in antiquity belongs to Thomas Aquinas. In his Summa Theologicae Aquinas outlined what is now considered to be "just war" theory. He not only discussed the justification for war but what activities were permissible in fighting a just war.

From Thomas Aquinas and later writers, these principles have become accepted as "the rules of engagement" for a war that is justified:

    Principles of the Just War

    * A just war can only be waged as a last resort, after reasonable attempts to bring justice have been exhausted.
    * A just war can only be waged by a legitimate authority. People, vigilantes, terrorists do not wage just wars; only a legitimate government is permitted to wage a war that can be considered justified.
    * A just war can only be fought to redress wrongs that have been committed. A first strike attack on a nation that has committed no atrocities cannot be considered justice; that's aggression.
    * A just war can only be fought with "right" intentions. War is not justified to gain control of another nation, it's assets or it's people. If the right intention for going to war is not present, justice is not present.
    * A just war can only be fought if there is a reasonable chance of success. Deaths and injury incurred in a hopeless cause are not morally justifiable.
    * A just war can only be fought if the ultimate goal is to re-establish peace. More specifically, war is not justified if the situation in a country cannot be reasonably expected to be better after the war than before.
    * A just war must never allow the force used to be disproportional to the need. Nations must be prohibited from using force not necessary to attain the limited objective of addressing the wrongs that have been committed.
    * A just war must employ weapons and tactics that discriminate between combatants and non-combatants. Innocent civilians are never permissible targets of war, and war can only be just if every effort is made to avoid civilian casualties.

     Secretary Rumsfeld
Secretary Rumsfeld

When you look at these criteria, the United States seems to have a pretty strong case to stop the threat that Saddam Hussein poses to humanity, especially his own people. The US Government is a legitimate authority and does not bear the sword in vain (Romans 13:4). Besides, Psalm 82:4 commands us to "Deliver the poor and needy; free them from the hand of the wicked." As long as the intention of war with Iraq is to redress wrongs and not to acquire the assets of the country, and as long as required inspection for banned weapons is repeatedly rebuffed, I believe war with Saddam Hussein is both legitimate and just.

===================See Page 2

[nChrist]

February 12, 2003

From Back To The Bible:
Notice the Date
http://www.backtothebible.org/

Is War With Iraq Justified? - Page 2
By Woodrow Kroll

Hussein has shown himself to be an evil dictator. He has consistently lied about his chemical and biological weapons program. He has been less than forthcoming when pressed by the UN weapons inspectors, both after the Persian Gulf War and in advance of this one. He has brutally murdered untold Iraqis who have dared to resist him. These facts are indisputable. Without question he fits the description that the Church Father Augustine gave of those who are rightly condemned and against whom war is justifiably waged: "The passion for inflicting harm, the cruel thirst for vengeance, an unpacific and relentless spirit, the fever of revolt, the lust of power, and such like things, all these are rightly condemned in war." (Contra Faust. xxii, 74).

What Godly People Do During Ghastly Wars

Let's face it. None of us wants war. Many of you have family and friends who have been called up to fight in this potential conflict. You and I both wish they were back home today, safe and sound. But that's not the case. And, in the reality of life and death, as much as we hate it to admit it, we know down deep in our hearts that if war with Iraq materializes, some of our family and friends will not come back. War is ghastly. It takes our best men and women, but it takes them in justifiable causes - justice, humanity, freedom from oppression, the right to live without repression.

We hate war, but we hate injustice more. So here are some things you can do whether you have loved ones in the Persian Gulf or not.

First, examine your own attitudes. There are many good people who believe that all war is wrong, that no war is ever justified. Most Christians do not agree, but we respect their beliefs and feelings. You must examine your own attitudes and before God come to your own conclusions. Remember, the enemy is not the person who disagrees with you; the enemy is a maniacal murderer.

Second, if you feel that war as the last resort may be justified in certain cases, and you believe the atrocities committed by Saddam Hussein is one of those cases, be supportive of your President, Premier or national leader. Write your Senator or Congressman. Express your beliefs, whatever they may be. That's a privilege of a democratic society, but rarely are unpopular decisions like this one supported by letters or e-mails.

Third, discuss these things in your small group at church. It's important for others to have the benefit of your thinking. Some in your group may never have grappled with these issues before. Whatever your conclusions, help others to come to their own by providing an arena for biblical discussion, respectful of disagreement and bathed in the unity of the faith and the love of the Lord.

Fourth, spend some extra time each day in God's Word. The strength that comes from reading His Word will never come from reading the headlines in the newspaper. God reassures us in His Word, He guides us in His Word, He teaches us in His Word. There's power, comfort, encouragement and hope in the Bible. Don't be a stranger to these when you need them the most.

Finally, talk to God about it. Especially if you have friends and family who may have to participate in any conflict with Iraq, don't fail to keep them before the Lord in prayer. Look how often in the Bible when God's people went to war others stayed behind and prayed. Both tasks were important. And don't forget to pray for those who bear the burden of knowing they had to make the decisions that sent troops off to war. If troops invade Baghdad and weapons are found, or worse, Saddam uses them on the troops, the American people will say, "Bush was right" and they'll forget about it the next day. But if the troops die, no one will forget it. War is a lose-lose situation for presidents too. The President needs your prayerful support.

What will Back to the Bible do if there is war with Iraq? We'll be on the air, on the Internet and in every other medium we can use to bring the message of hope to all who fear, the message of comfort to all who grieve, and the message of salvation to all who will listen. Your gifts and your prayers have brought us to this point; they will carry us into the future as we increase our efforts during the days of war.

Don't hesitate to e-mail your prayer request to us. We'll pray for you and your loved ones. We appreciate your support; we want to support you too!

God bless you,

Dr. Woodrow Kroll
President and Bible Teacher

[Soldier4Christ]

An excellant Biblical stance on government and war. Thank you Brother for posting this so that I could see it again.

[ollie]

Why war over this "maniac" known as Saddam Hussein? While we ignore other maniacs who are threatening us with nuclear weapons.

ollie

[Soldier4Christ]

Why war over this "maniac" known as Saddam Hussein? While we ignore other maniacs who are threatening us with nuclear weapons.

ollie

Saddam Hussein was dealt with for well over a decade before we took him out.

A just war can only be waged as a last resort, after reasonable attempts to bring justice have been exhausted.

As for those that are threatening us with nuclear warfare not only should the above apply but also:

A just war can only be fought if there is a reasonable chance of success.

[JimmySwift]

Hi,

I see we have all been reading up on our Carl Von Clauswitz!
I have only one small bone to pick here.

While I really enjoyed the letter by the good doctor, its positions and assertions, upon which he bases his final conclusions are a touch dated.

By this, I am refering to all of the talk of Sadam's weapons porgrams and links to Osama.  In the months since the war, these initial reasons for attacking Iraq were shown to be quite bogus.  I also think quite a large debate could be waged on the use of the Clauswitzian theories that he uses, and their interpretations.

In all, I thought the writing was quite good, and it came at the topic from a very honest place.  Unfortunately, seeing as someof his initial points, that are presented therein as fact, are in actuallity, not fact, one can no longer take his conclusions at total face value.

cheers,

Jimmy

[Soldier4Christ]

 

I saw no where that Woodrow Kroll stated that Saddam was linked to Osama. He did mention that Saddam supported terrorism, which he did. As for the weapons program there is evidence that he was attempting to gain weapons such as nuclear and chemical capability and proven that he did have chemical warfare before and was not hesitant to use it.

Any similarities to Carl Von Clauswitz is purely coincidental.

Dr. Woodrow Kroll is president and senior Bible teacher for the international media ministry "Back to the Bible". Dr. Kroll based his "Principles of the Just War" on a Biblical basis. Concepts that existed long before Carl Von Clauswitz was even born.

[JimmySwift]

PR,

Thanks for your reply!

I'm not sure that the evidence of Iraqi supported terrorism is quite as mounting as you might like it to be.  I have to problem saying that Husein was an evil person, or that he did terrible things to his own people.  I do however, take issue with the notion that he somehow posed a grave threat to the U.S. homeland.

It is also true that he probably did have some chemical weapons, but Ronald Regan sold him those, so I'm not really sure who is to blame for that.

I think the sooner we all aknowledge that Iraq was invaded, and is now being occupied for political reasons, and not national security one's, the sooner we'll all be able to move on, and deal with the issue more effectively

cheers,

Jimmy

[Soldier4Christ]

I do however, take issue with the notion that he somehow posed a grave threat to the U.S. homeland.

That is the same thing that was said about Hitler before he started invading other countries. It was not until he took control of many countries that people finally opened their eyes to that threat.

Saddam was a threat not only to the U.S. but to the whole world. Most people are either to blind or their ego's are so inflated that they thought he could not harm them. There was much about the man and his family that does not get media attention because most of the media wants us to look like the bad guys picking on the little guy.

[nChrist]

PR,

Thanks for your reply!

I'm not sure that the evidence of Iraqi supported terrorism is quite as mounting as you might like it to be.  I have to problem saying that Husein was an evil person, or that he did terrible things to his own people.  I do however, take issue with the notion that he somehow posed a grave threat to the U.S. homeland.

It is also true that he probably did have some chemical weapons, but Ronald Regan sold him those, so I'm not really sure who is to blame for that.

I think the sooner we all aknowledge that Iraq was invaded, and is now being occupied for political reasons, and not national security one's, the sooner we'll all be able to move on, and deal with the issue more effectively

cheers,

Jimmy

Hello JimmySwift,

I disagree strongly. I, for one, am very happy that we are fighting terrorists in Iraq instead of on our own soil. That time may come yet if we don't keep the terrorists busy enough on their own turf. In the meantime, the folks in North America can give thanks to our armed forces and to God for the safety we enjoy.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:1-3  THEREFORE, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus, who live [and] walk not after the dictates of the flesh, but after the dictates of the Spirit. [John 3:18.]  For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.  For God has done what the Law could not do, [its power] being weakened by the flesh [the entire nature of man without the Holy Spirit]. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, [God] condemned sin in the flesh [subdued, overcame, deprived it of its power over all who accept that sacrifice], [Lev. 7:37.]  (The Amplified Bible)

[nChrist]

I do however, take issue with the notion that he somehow posed a grave threat to the U.S. homeland.

That is the same thing that was said about Hitler before he started invading other countries. It was not until he took control of many countries that people finally opened their eyes to that threat.

Saddam was a threat not only to the U.S. but to the whole world. Most people are either to blind or their ego's are so inflated that they thought he could not harm them. There was much about the man and his family that does not get media attention because most of the media wants us to look like the bad guys picking on the little guy.

Pastor Roger,

I would have thought that the invasion of Kuwait and a decade or more of defying the free world on weapons inspections would help even the ultra-liberals to sense some form of danger from Iraq. Add all of the other factors and the real question should be why the free world waited so long.

I've read various estimates about how many innocent people were murdered by Saddam, and I don't know which sources to believe. It ranges from 300,000 to up in the single digit millions. He was a Hitler, even without any information that's been brought into question.

There's also still a lot we don't know. BUT, there's also a lot of known information that won't be published for years. In short, I think it was real nice of the terrorists of this world to make themselves available in Iraq. It's a real change for them to face armed professionals instead of innocent women and children for once. However, the terrorists are going back to their old ways as we speak. They are too cowardly to face armed professionals for long.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 12:1  I APPEAL to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God, to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties] as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God, which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship. (The Amplified Bible)

[twobombs]

Hi all,

I don't know whos idea it was to beat this old donkey again, but apparently some ppl across the pond ( hey, both from africa and Europe to the US it's still the same ocean ) are having their second thought. Among them are mr. pat robertson, that plainly states that lies and untruths brought the US to Iraq, nevertheless he is convinced that even though the reasons/arguments to start the war were invalid ( remember mr. powell before the UN  ) the 'coalition' should stay in Iraq.

I my view with the US active in the middle east region, it is fullfilling prophecy; wether I do or do not agree with it. The word of God will be fullfilled;

Mat 24:35  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

For more info regarding the truth and lies of the bush administration, timelines and more stuff that the mainstream media & your local senator does not want you to know please head to :

http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/

well documented timelines on http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/whycare.html

[nChrist]

Hello TwoBombs,

Brother, it's great to see you back on the forum. It was my idea to revive this old thread after reading some articles that tend to discourage and bash the men and women serving in Iraq.

YES! - I also think that Iraq is part of Bible Prophecy, and I firmly believe that no man, country, international organization, or power in the universe can slow or hasten God's appointed time to fulfill Bible Prophecy. Iraq being part of the end of the age of Grace events is logical, but I don't make such claims, as that's God's Business.

I, for one, support the war in Iraq 100%, and I'm very proud of the men and women fighting there, not only for peace and freedom for the people of Iraq, but for peace and preserved freedom for the free world. None of them died in vain, and the fight is a just one.

I have no desire to rehash world politics, but I do have a strong desire to thank those who have fought and are fighting in Iraq. Not a single drop of sweat or blood was in vain. If Iraq is or isn't part of the fulfillment of Bible Prophecy, that's really not material to me. What is material to me is that the terrorists are being engaged there and not here. I firmly believe that every second the terrorists are kept busy on their own turf is a second they won't be killing innocents in free countries. YES! - I do firmly believe that our armed forces in Iraq are preserving our freedom and safety at home. That's on top of liberating the people of Iraq.

I'm not a war lover, but I firmly believe that the war in Iraq is just and necessary.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 1:7-9  In Him we have redemption (deliverance and salvation) through His blood, the remission (forgiveness) of our offenses (shortcomings and trespasses), in accordance with the riches and the generosity of His gracious favor, Which He lavished upon us in every kind of wisdom and understanding (practical insight and prudence), Making known to us the mystery (secret) of His will (of His plan, of His purpose). [And it is this:] In accordance with His good pleasure (His merciful intention) which He had previously purposed and set forth in Him,
(The Amplified Bible)

[Cottondale]

Is War with Iraq justified?:

As with many I suppose, I have often dealt with the question of war as a Christian. I remember the story of Sgt. York and ponder if I should participate in active duty with the military when I deem a certain conflict worthy, as WW2 for example.  Then I concider what I should so if the war seems questionable, as the Vietnam conflict.  As a man I wonder what I would do if a time came that I had to decide to join the military and be confronted with the consequences of not doing so (concerning the views of my peers, family, national feeling, ect.).  Upon that I must then concider, "what does God, as a Christian, expect me to do"?  Not an easy question, and one every Christian must deal with.  It's difficult for the non-Christian.  If I deal with this question as a man, I will choose a natural path--that may be for or against.  But being a Christian by New Birth I have to concider the call of Christ.  Should the Christian, I, participate in war?  
        This may seem off the question, but only by understanding that the Christain is not any longer a national citizen, but a son of God and of His Kingdom, can we answer the question asked.
         Who goes to war anyway?  Governments, not the Church of God (not refering here to the Catholic Church).  What is the Church to do in the event of war?  I know one thing She must do, nothing that is contrary to the commands of God.  Can I be a Christian and a Soldier?  Yes.  But will my participation as a soldier hinder the cause of Christ in this world and/or my participation His eternital kingdom?  
       The natural man says, If a war is justifiable I will do everything to fight the nation's enemy.  The Christian is accountable otherwise.  I must know what God requires of me as a son, rather than doing what I feel I should as a man (or as others expect).  We are the Church as individuals.  
        Should we ponder for a little while, "What justifies the Church being in this world today and what role will we play as Christians while in it"?  I do not think that we Christians realize the present and eternal consequenses of our decisions here and now.  Jesus never took a position of arms.  What did He do instead?  What should I, will I, do???  What does Jesus call justifiable?  We have Brethren [out] of all nationalities.  
           

[nChrist]

Cottondale,

I see this is your first post, so WELCOME!! to Christians Unite.

The mightiest warrior of all time will be coming back soon, and HE will wield a terrible swift sword against evil. HIS name is JESUS CHRIST! - our Living Lord and Saviour! - very GOD!

There was a time about 2,000 years ago that HE was made manifest in the flesh for the Salvation of mankind. There is no irony that most of HIS followers wore swords. There is also no irony that most of the mightiest warriors of all time were and are God's children. BUT, none will compare to the LORD OF HOSTS!

I have no doubt at all that God has sent judgment upon evil throughout the ages, and there will be a time of final judgment at God's appointed time. I also have no doubt at all that God has used Christian warriors throughout the ages, even now. We can also read of Biblical instructions about authority, but I certainly understand the confusion. No Christian loves war.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Revelation 19:11-16  After that I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse [appeared]! The One Who was riding it is called Faithful (Trustworthy, Loyal, Incorruptible, Steady) and True, and He passes judgment and wages war in righteousness (holiness, justice, and uprightness). [Ezek. 1:1.]  His eyes [blaze] like a flame of fire, and on His head are many kingly crowns (diadems); and He has a title (name) inscribed which He alone knows or can understand. [Dan. 10:6.]  He is dressed in a robe dyed by dipping in blood, and the title by which He is called is The Word of God.  And the troops of heaven, clothed in fine linen, dazzling and clean, followed Him on white horses.  From His mouth goes forth a sharp sword with which He can smite (afflict, strike) the nations; and He will shepherd and control them with a staff (scepter, rod) of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath and indignation of God the All-Ruler (the Almighty, the Omnipotent). [Ps. 2:9.]  And on His garment (robe) and on His thigh He has a name (title) inscribed, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. [Deut. 10:17; Dan. 2:47.]  (The Amplified Bible)