Is War With Iraq Justified?

[nChrist]

Hello Sister Chris,

I enjoyed your post and easily noted the truth about different opinions on issues between brothers and sisters in Christ. In this life, our differences are real, but we are still one in Christ. Our common love of JESUS as LORD over our lives should be more than enough for us to have fellowship.

I would simply note that born again children of God should never let differences of opinion be a bar to fellowship in this short life. Our old nature in the flesh is what causes our differences, NOT GOD, and God will rid us completely of this stumbling block at His appointed time.. I think that we should all recognize that pretty easily. There will come a time when our old nature and thoughts in the flesh are gone forever, and our petty differences during this short life will mean nothing. All of the tags and labels of man will be gone, and we will truly be ONE IN CHRIST for eternity. We are to strive for the Unity of the Spirit and the Bond of Peace in this short life, but we will all fall short.

Sister, you asked me about the Bride of Christ, and I did a brief study for you. I placed it in General Theology under "The Bride of Christ". My health is not very good right now, so I hope that I didn't make any mistakes. However, I know there are much more complete studies on the forum already if you want more information.

Love in Christ,
Tom

John 1:1-5  MKJV  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overtake it.

[nChrist]

Hello Cottondale,

I was a Christian police officer for 25 years and a soldier before that, but that doesn't mean that I don't respect the thoughts of those who have a Biblical conviction against violence.

I didn't say that I understood that Biblical conviction, but I do respect it. In a broad Biblical picture, it is impossible to ignore the teaching that God places authority, and we are to render unto Caesar. America makes that pretty easy for all Christians, as we have a conscientious objector status. Many in that status in prior conflicts served in many vital roles that our armed forces could not have functioned without, and the same is true today. Hosts of Christians have served in all functions, including conscientious objectors. They might be cooks, medics, and a list of other vital functions. I don't make fun of them or look down on them at all, but I would be less than truthful if I said that I understand completely.

As an individual, I find it unreasonable to assume that God lets evil go unchecked in New Testament times. I firmly believe that he still uses individuals and nations for His Will and Purpose against evil. For the most simple example, I like to think of my own family, children, and grandchildren. I do trust God to watch over them, but I believe I am one of the tools he uses for their safety. I do not believe it to be Biblical for me to stand and do nothing while someone is harming or killing my family. However, I don't make fun of those who believe the opposite. I just don't understand them.

I have many thoughts about Christians who do place their lives on the line for the defense of others. In short, I would consider them to be the most likely to perform their duties honestly, without excessive force, and with morals that only God can give. As an individual, I would prefer that police officers and soldiers to be Christians for these reasons and many more. Please let me repeat one more time that I don't look down on Christians who don't want to serve by taking life. I didn't want to take life as a police officer, but I was prepared to without any conflict at all.

I hope that part of this made sense.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Corinthians 2:1-2  MKJV  And I, brothers, when I came to you, did not come with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring to you the testimony of God.  For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

[twobombs]

Hi Cris, BEP & others,

cris:

Rev 21:3  And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold,
the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them,
and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them,
and be their God.

So here revelation clearly states that the new jerusalem is the bride.

In *my* view the best defense for the whole church-bride thing comes
from Solomon, and I just don't buy it, like the pretrib thing.
I know a lot of people beg to differ, and this part of the forum is
full of threads dealing with this discussion ( so I won't go any deeper
into this at this time, one search should give enough info on this matter )

Let's get back to the thread: Is war with Iraq justified in Gods/godly eyes
Lets see what the word says :

Ecc 3:8  A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Mat 24:6  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not
troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

So first; let us not be troubled by the fact that the war in Iraq is on,
as "all these things must come to pass"; yes, this is the time of war.

So we move on to the real question of this thread: is the war in
Iraq morally right in Gods/godly eyes

Hear me out:

Num 22:12  And God said unto Balaam, Thou shalt not go with them;
thou shalt not curse the people: for they are blessed.

In the scripture above Balaam is instructed not to curse the Israelites
as they are Gods people, and the land is theirs for an inheritance.
With this in mind fastforward to this day:

Zec 12:2  Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the
people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah
and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3  And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for
all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces,
though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Now; with the US co-responsible in enforcing this "treaty with hell" ( ISA 28)
by giving away parts of the Holy Land to the "philistines", they are
not following Gods guidelines concerning the sanctity of
 the borders of Israel.

So; I once again arrive in scripture at the same point :

Isa 28:18  And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement
with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then
ye shall be trodden down by it.

1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction
cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

[nChrist]

TwoBombs,

Brother, I think that we are on several sheets of music, or possible we disagree with more than I thought.

I don't view any treaty being worked on now as establishing peace or being the treaty spoken of in Bible Prophecy. I also think that you might want to review the New Jerusalem.

Now that I think about it, we probably are on several sheets of music. I certainly don't think that the US is in any way going against Israel. And, I'm not associating your thoughts about Iraq in connection with Israel in any kind of a negative way. Iraq represented a life and death threat for Israel with just a few more developments, so I don't understand your line of thought. Regardless, I doubt very seriously that any of the leaders considered Bible Prophecy in the  final decisions to go to war with Iraq. Other than something currently positive for Israel, I don't see the connection. At least you said that I didn't state what you are talking about, so I obviously don't understand what you are saying.    I still haven't had a chance to study your updated site. So, I'll do that first and get back with you.

Love in Christ,
Tom

1 Timothy 2:3-7 ASV  This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;  who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.  For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony to be borne in its own times;  whereunto I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I speak the truth, I lie not), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

[twobombs]

No prob, bro.

[Cottondale]

Thanks for your comments Tom,
I too for a few months worked in a hostile environment as a CO in a juvenile prison and carried a side arm when out side the prison gates, watching the area for possible escapes, with authority to use deadly force in accordance to law.  I was at that time dealing with some questions concerning being a Christian and under state government authority as a CO.  My present stance was arrived at gradually in time.  Defending an attacker upon a child or person in ordinary life situations is not what I concider as being a solider.  Nor do I disapprove of what the US is doing to stop evil as in WW2.  What I know of the NT is that the one who recieves Christ as LORD and Savior is now under a New Authority and
alligence.  If the Word of God is our sole rule for faith and practice and if the new life of Christ within is a real one indeed, there must follow a different way of conducting ourselves in this world-even if I as a normal person who would take up arms if not surrendered to Jesus to follow Him.  There is one thing the Church has failed to do, and has lost it's power to do, to pray and know God hears and is doing His job.

[nChrist]

Cottondale,

I understand what you are saying. Your personal convictions are between you and God, as are mine. In my mind, I am convinced that God still uses individuals and nations against evil. That's exactly the reason why hosts of Christian soldiers, police officers, and Christians involved in other lines of work requiring force have no conflicts of any kind. Yes, it is a matter of prayer, and the vast majority of Christians I know in such lines of work pray often about what to do and how to do it.

There is another side to the coin that many Christians consider. It is cruel to leave these jobs undone, and many feel led by God to do this work, even to the extent of giving their lives for the work they feel called to do. If a Christian feels led to avoid these lines of work, that's fine.

As a natural conclusion, I am firmly convinced that prayer is a very powerful tool and weapon, one that will never be replaced. Let me finish my thought by making a statement about prayer. When we pray for safety and peace for our families, I am positive that God may use us in establishing and maintaining that peace and safety. If we pray for an end to the killing of innocents, we just might be one of the tools that God uses to answer that prayer. This is not to say that I have anything bad to say about those who feel led by God to do nothing but pray. Those who feel led to do nothing but pray are still using a mighty weapon - PRAYER! Further, I don't question that role at all. In the same thought, they should not question that other Christians feel led to do more than prayer. I'm fully aware that God can accomplish anything without the use of a single human being. HE is ALL MIGHTY and ALL POWERFUL, but history has shown that HE does use human beings to accomplish His Will and purpose.

Let me give you an example for thought. Let's say that you pray that the starving people in Africa will be fed. Well, the fact is that many armed people are currently standing in the way of the starving people getting the food that has already been sent. So, hosts are starving to death while food sent by Christians sits in warehouses possibly rotting. Here's the next fact - many will probably have to fight and even lose their lives to get the food to the starving people. If and when these prayers are answered, guns and death will be involved. In the meantime, many thousands are starving to death every day. So, what might God do to answer the millions of prayers for these starving people??

Love In Christ,
Tom

James 2:5 ASV  Hearken, my beloved brethren; did not God choose them that are poor as to the world to be rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he promised to them that love him?