Forgiveness

[Bronzesnake]

 Let me say this my friends - my brothers and sisters.
I have read through all these replies, and I was brought to tears. Forgiveness is very powerful.

Thank you for your prayers SelahJoy!

I completely agree with you, Bronzesnake. I think it is a humbling thought that it took so much to forgive my sins, and yet I find it hard to forgive the transgressions (compared with what Christ has forgiven me, the extremely minor transgressions).  

I think the point of forgiving someone is not for them, but for you. When you do not forgive someone for something as horrible as abuse, rape, theft, or murder, you are constantly allowing yourself to be revictimized by that person. Pain usually comes with anger and bitterness. The beauty of forgiveness is not saying that you forget what the person did to you but you remember and chose to forgive them inspite of it. On the other hand, if you know someone is prone to stealing, I would put away the fine china until they rebuild your trust.  

Amen my sister! You summed it up very nicely!

 Bronzesnake

[cris]

Hey
Forgiveness is very important but it's also one of the hardest things that one can do. How can you forgive the rapist? How can you forgive the terrorist?

It's up to us to set the example. We know that one day God will judge the terrorist, so why should we not forgive? This is how I try to look on it and this is how I forgive.

Agree with everything you said but here's another slant.  We're human and find it's really hard to forgive someone wounding us directly.  Our pride is pricked.  That fallen nature still hangs around.  It's only Jesus Christ IN us that enables us to forgive.  That old nature is a vindictive and revengeful one.  We have to constantly crucify the flesh or we can't forgive.  Cannot imagine what this world would be like if Jesus Christ wasn't here with us.  Don't even want to imagine.

Grace and peace,
cris

 

[Shammu]

I posted this about a year ago. I think it is time to make, it's way back to the front.

Learning to Forgive

The journey toward our healing starts with unconditional love and forgiveness - unconditional love and forgiveness we offer first to ourselves. These two are so closely interwoven that it is impossible to conceive of unconditional love without forgiveness and vice versa. As God loves utterly and forgives utterly, so we are to offer love and forgiveness. Jesus in his reply to the Pharisees stated: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it; Love your neighbour as yourself." Matthew 22:37-39 In the prayer he gave to his friends, and in his subsequent explanation Jesus is quoted as saying: "Forgive us our debts as we forgive others ... if you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Parent will forgive you ... but if you do not forgive others, neither will your Parent forgive your transgressions."

There is no doubt God desires that we are all healed and whole, yet self-forgiveness and self-love are either neglected or put in the "too hard" basket. Worse still, many of us have never heard this portion of the Gospel. Yet from our earliest days we have been subjected to moral and spiritual directions which have taught us what was "good" and what was "bad"; what was "expected of us" and what was "unacceptable or inexcusable conduct". In fact, we are bent over by layer upon subsequent layer of shame and guilt, imposed on us by family, society, various spiritual decrees and regulations, by those who employ us and those with whom we work. Our greatest need is to see ourselves with the eyes of God, as people who are loved and are forgiven totally. We may need to turn to those skilled in the ministry of healing of memories to help unlock all those doors behind which we have repressed pain, anxiety, bitterness and failures together with the memories of those kindnesses we neglected, and all those acts of conciliation we refused. As Jungian John Sanford notes, "We are all of us wounded people. The is no such thing as a person who is free from illness, incompleteness, and injury to his or her personality. Some of us can simply hide from our woundedness better than others. When we can no longer hide from our woundedness, we are ready for individuation." As those who have not yet forgiven nor loved themselves we remain unhealed people. What is our reaction when we are required by Jesus to love and forgive others as we love and forgive ourselves, if we have not yet made peace with ourselves? How can we express unconditional forgiveness and love to others when we have not yet experienced it in our own lives?

Fear, the opposite of love  is manifested in many forms: hatred, jealousy, pride, resentment, anger, greed, prejudice, hostility, conceit and various, "ism" words. Each and every one of these manifestations of fear corrodes our personality, our spiritual walk, our attitudes and our physical bodies. Changes in blood pressure, indigestion, ulcerated stomachs, nervous breakdowns and coronary attacks can often be traced back to lack of unconditional love. Unconditional love frees us from all bonds and restrictions - we rejoice at the successes of others, and mourn over the plight of many. We are so filled with love that life bubbles over. Those who are yet to know this experience of unconditional love often close in on themselves, creating a universe of which they are the center. They are fearful and jealous of their reputation, they begrudge the successes of others, they become neurotic and sometimes paranoid that there is a conspiracy somewhere directed against them. Their fear, hatred and jealousy eat away at their peace of mind, at their relationship with the Creator, and at their physical bodies. They become consumed by fear, riddled by the worms of nightmares of their own making. Their lives are punctuated by explosions of anger, and as such are immature reminders of childhood. Whether these outbursts are used as a release of tension or frustration, or whether they are used as a weapon, they are still only tools of manipulation. James 4: 1-2 speaks of these outbursts.

God continues to love all of creation, passionately, unconditionally. For God so loved the world that ..........


"If love is the soul of Christian existence, it must be at the heart of every other Christian virtue. Thus, for example, justice without love is legalism; faith without love is ideology; hope without love is self-centeredness; forgiveness without love is self-abasement; fortitude without love is recklessness; generosity without love is extravagance; care without love is mere duty; fidelity without love is servitude. Every virtue is an expression of love. No virtue is really a virtue unless it is permeated, or informed, by love 1Corinthians 13."

Why shouldn't those who have wronged us be punished, made to bear the cost of their actions/words? We all have a deep-seated conviction that "someone ought to pay." Jesus spoke of this "eye for an eye" attitude - the letter of the law - as being superceded by the requirements of Love. How can things ever be made right? How can those words/actions be wiped from the memories and lives of the victims and of others? Revenge merely sets one on the same level as the one who has wronged you, forgiveness moves you both closer to God. From forgiveness it is a tiny step to accept others as beloved children of God, and to love them as such.

Jesus demonstrated that God condemns no person; therefore why do we? Why do we refuse forgiveness when for our own healing, wholeness and peace of mind we need to be forgiven and to offer forgiveness? "Forgiveness means that we have asked for a miracle: the ability to see through the mistakes that someone has made to the truth that lies in all our hearts"  Marianne Williamson, Illuminata. Forgiveness is seeing others as loved as equally as we are by God, and as justified, forgiven and reconciled by the blood of Jesus as we are.

Forgiveness removes our rights to avenge and to revenge. It prevents us from attacking others. Forgiveness costs - often it seems to produce more pain than the original wounding. It involves accepting voluntarily the harm or evil that has been inflicted on oneself, and letting the other person go free. In love, we bear the cost of those sins against us. Both human and divine forgiveness are substitutional. The cross was the price God paid to forgive us. We could never pay the debt of sin we owe to God, so God paid it for us. By our forgiveness of others we pay their debt to us.

Cont., next post

[Shammu]

Forgiveness does not mean we suppress our anger - forgiveness means we give up our right to anger. Alone we cannot do this, it is far too hard. Every person is one for whom Christ died, and one whom God regards as a perfect, loving child. We need to recognize that each and every one of us is an immortal soul. Our actions and reactions will become part of the immortal record of our lives. We need to turn to God and ask for strength to tread this path, so that we may offer forgiveness, acceptance and love to others. Only God knows and understands others, so rather than trying to analyze their motives, we need only to be accepting and forgiving. In Col 3: 12-14 Paul speaks of this. God has never refused forgiveness to any person, nor turned away from any.

There can be no peace without forgiveness. Forgiveness does not erase the past, nor can forgiveness change it. Instead forgiveness removes the power of the past to cause pain or anger; it provides permanent healing of those memories. Forgiveness empties the bitterness from our lives. Bitterness left to fester will erode our attitudes, our rationale and motives and our relationship with God. To be able to accept God's forgiveness we must be free in ourselves to offer forgiveness to others. We must be prepared to offer this forgiveness not only once, but should a memory of the offence be renewed we must offer forgiveness once again - continually. To offer forgiveness continually is to live forgiveness by accepting the rough and tumble of life, by turning disappointments into opportunities. While we still may not like the person(s), or may find a clash of lifestyle or philosophy to be a bit too much to say 'friend', we at least reach out to find the common ground and see if friendship, or at least the ability to work and live together, develops.

C.S. Lewis in The Weight of Glory speaks of the unconditional love we are asked to demonstrate:

"And our charity must be a real and costly love, with deep feeling for the sins in spite of which we love the sinner--no mere tolerance, or indulgence which parodies love as flippancy parodies merriment. Next to the Blessed Sacrament itself, your neighbour is the holiest object presented to your senses. If he is your Christian neighbour, he is holy in almost the same way, for in him also Christ vere latitat -- the glorifier and the glorified, Glory Himself, is truly hidden."

It is by forgiveness that we dissolve the bonds that tie us to those we forgive, as well as to our old thought patterns and beliefs. Without the willingness to forgive we perpetuate the pain, the abuse and the memories of those past traumas continuing in our present time. We have no need to confront that person(s) to offer forgiveness. We can ask God to wrap them in our forgiveness and love, or we can choose to visualize sending a cloud or blanket of love and forgiveness to them and having it enfold them. Those who use a pipe in prayer will also know how to send such blessings. There is no barrier to prevent us extending our forgiveness, save our own willfulness. Perhaps we don't choose to forgive today, or let go of those painful memories just yet. We want to hug them a little longer to our breasts, to feel the thorns again pierce our flesh. Why? Why in the name of the Risen Christ do we Christians choose this option? Christ has borne the cost of forgiveness, why must we punish ourselves by refusing forgiveness? Why do we choose to continue to live as the victims of rape, of verbal or emotional abuse, and of rejection when in an instant we can set ourselves and the perpetrators free? Do we not believe we deserve the peace and joy such forgiveness will secure? What is the fear which will not permit us to live as healed, whole, radiant people?

As a society, as a nation, as part of all creation we need communally to seek forgiveness from God. While a society cannot be ordered to don sackcloth en masse, we can gather publicly and commit to the change, and the Christians of our nations can (as individuals and as the Church) confess our sins before God and another (or many others) and seek God's forgiveness. Our society and our nations have practiced racism; we have been willing to destroy the mountains of food we have overproduced while millions in the world starve; we have not spoken out when we have seen the rights, the homes and the lives of others destroyed; we have created barriers of class, gender and sexuality. As members of our societies and our nations we must be prepared to seek forgiveness from those whom we wronged, and try to make restitution. Sometimes restitution is not possible, but our act of confession and sorrow allows the growth of roots of healing. And with this healing comes reconciliation.

Reconciliation is not easily achieved on either side, for each of us has been damaged by our own acts and by the acts of others. We have built defensive walls to protect us from further damage. God will need our permission to start demolishing these walls. But by the gift of unconditional love and forgiveness Jesus has moved to restore our relationship with God and our relationship with each other.

For this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.

Sometimes I believe we forget the price God paid so that we could be forgiven, so that no trace of those sins would ever remain to convict us in God's sight. Jesus was physically put to death, his body broken, spilled out for us. When we read the Ten Commandments and Jesus' commission for each of us, we cannot but note that God's directs our concern outward to others. It is our neighbours, our families, our enemies, and the untapped fields waiting to be reaped for Christ which are the focus of God's attention. When we share the Eucharist it is not a solitary meal, for even if we are celebrating it by ourselves, we do so within the entire universal family of believers, past, present and future. God's love and forgiveness pour out, as Christ's blood was poured out, for all. And that includes all from whom we have withheld our forgiveness. We can never be sure of the hidden compulsions which cause people to strike out, so how can we judge their words and actions justly? God does know, and God forgives.

Stop judging and you will not be judged. Stop condemning and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven.

We are called to be a peculiar people, to view life differently and to live it differently. In some ways our walk may seem topsy-turvy to others; our values have changed from self to service. In Matthew 5: 21-24 are recorded Jesus' words which challenged his hearers' previous thoughts about their relationship to each other and to God. Jesus not only overturned the tables at the Temple, but he overturned our responses to one another even to this day. When, after the war, Corrie ten Boom met a former guard who had been responsible for the torment of women in the concentration camp at Ravensbruck, try as she could, her hand would not extend to touch his ... until she put the matter in God's hands, and forgave. She could then clasp his hand and bless him. Topsy-turvy it could seem.

The words whose echoes still resound in the ether, continuing to challenge us to repudiate the reasons we use to justify withholding unconditional love and forgiveness, are those which Jesus spoke at Calvary:

Father, forgive them, they know not what they do.

BRNZ, I still love you brother, no matter what has happened in the past. Each day, is a new begining for us who walk with Christ. So long as we don't keep repeating, past sins.

Resting in our Lords arms.
Bob

Rom 12:16  Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

2 Corinthians 2:10 If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake,

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen DW, thank you for reposting that I didn't get to see it before.

How can you forgive the rapist? How can you forgive the terrorist?

Some very good questions deserving some very good answers. In addition to the above answers I would like to say that we should follow Christs example. Whenever I am wronged by someone I think about what Jesus said on the cross, "forgive them; for they know not what they do". This is so true because these people do not know what they are doing to themselves because of their actions and in many cases I do not think that they know what they are actually doing to others in the long run.

[SelahJoy]

Let me say this my friends - my brothers and sisters.
I have read through all these replies, and I was brought to tears. Forgiveness is very powerful.

Thank you for your prayers...!


 Bronzesnake

Brother Bronze!  With sincere respect, I say you are so welcome!  I have visited the CU site with hope, expectation, and sometimes, concern to "see" you again.  Sincerely, I am happy to hear from you.  So this means you must be feeling better, right?

your sister in Jesus,

[Bronzesnake]

Let me say this my friends - my brothers and sisters.
I have read through all these replies, and I was brought to tears. Forgiveness is very powerful.

Thank you for your prayers...!


 Bronzesnake

Brother Bronze!  With sincere respect, I say you are so welcome!  I have visited the CU site with hope, expectation, and sometimes, concern to "see" you again.  Sincerely, I am happy to hear from you.  So this means you must be feeling better, right?

your sister in Jesus,

 Yes, I am begining to get better. I am regaining my strength.
Thank you so much for your concern my sister.

[SelahJoy]

Hey
How can you forgive the rapist?

Find all 100 or 200 verses in the Bible that tell about God's attributes.  Then go to a safe place either by yourself or with trusted brothers and sisters.  Once there, discipline yourself to tell God which of His attributes you like the best.  Be sure to tell Him how much you appreciate Him.  Sing love songs to Him too.  In Christian terms, this is called "praise and worship."

If your anger, pain, disgust, or any other negative emotion gets real strong, go ahead and tell God about it.  Yell it to Him if you want to.  You might even read some scripture to Him, for example, David's writings in Psalms about His would-be-murderers.  But don't stop at this!  You must force yourself to...

At some moment, pause from telling God how bad it is, and then force yourself to sing and pray love songs to Him.  This will probably be real difficult so expect resistance within your heart and thoughts.  Do it anyway.  The Bible refers to this as "the sacrifice of praise."  Keep doing this until God gives you the "peace that passes understanding."  He will do it!  And you will find a measure of forgiveness for the rapist.

Also, pray the rapist gets everything from God that you want from God.  For example, if you want salvation, ask God to save the rapist.  If you want peace between yourself and God, ask God to make peace with the rapist.  If you want to be protected from evil, pray God protects the rapist.  Pray God gives the rapist the chance to meet you in heaven and make total reconciliation with you.

Then, God will give you a deep compassion for others who are raped, and you will be Jesus' witness of Christian love.

One final step to total forgiveness, remember our sisters advice to "keep the fine china safe until you trust" the rapist.  Remember, forgiving the rapist and trusting the rapist are totally different.  Joseph ran from Potifer's wife.  Tamar never went to re-visit Amnon.  Jesus knew when to leave the presense of His enemy's too.

Love to all

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen SelahJoy,

Your post reminded me of these verses.



1Ch 23:30  And to stand every morning to thank and praise the LORD, and likewise at even;

Psa 35:28  And my tongue shall speak of thy righteousness and of thy praise all the day long.

Psa 71:8  Let my mouth be filled with thy praise and with thy honour all the day.

[Shammu]

How can you forgive the rapist? How can you forgive the terrorist?

Brothers, and sisters,

If I can forgive my wifes murderer, and bring him to Jesus. How can any of you do less. Ours is not vengence, or revenge. Forgiveness removes our rights to avenge, what ever wrong we have suffered. Or in plain language, it prevents us from attacking others. Yes at times I suffer, bbut that is nothing perment, in time Jesus will heal that. Remember, that we should learn forgiveness as taught by the Lord.

Rest with the Lord.
Bob

Hosea 14:2 Take words with you and return to the LORD. Say to him: "Forgive all our sins and receive us graciously, that we may offer the fruit of our lips.

[nChrist]

AMEN BROTHERS AND SISTERS!

I love this thread. It's very uplifting and of huge value to every Christian.

Dreamweaver, God bless you Brother! I couldn't imagine what you've gone through. I'll simply say your example would be the ultimate in this discussion, and I give thanks that God is using you for the benefit of others in many ways.

The Blood of JESUS is forgiveness for us when we make HIM the LORD over our lives. Brother Bob, I'm reflecting now on you witnessing to the murderer of your wife and him accepting JESUS. Brother, it's TOO MUCH to put into words. I know that many prayed for you, and I'm wondering if you were led to do this as God's method of restoring peace in your heart. BUT, it's still far TOO MUCH to put into words.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 15:9-11 ASV  Even as the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you: abide ye in my love.  If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.  These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

[Tabitha]

I think the point of forgiving someone is not for them, but for you. When you do not forgive someone for something as horrible as abuse, rape, theft, or murder, you are constantly allowing yourself to be revictimized by that person. Pain usually comes with anger and bitterness. The beauty of forgiveness is not saying that you forget what the person did to you but you remember and chose to forgive them inspite of it. On the other hand, if you know someone is prone to stealing, I would put away the fine china until they rebuild your trust.  

Tabitha,

You could not have said this better!  Your point to "put away the fine china until they rebuild your trust" is so well said.  Your reasons for forgiving are well thought out too, but I would like to add another benefit to forgiving.  Parents who forgive rapists, murderers, slanderers, thiefs, or child abusers free their children from the curses of the past.  In other words, children don't have to grow up and live as adults just passing on the yucky stories or unforgiveness, or all the bitterness that develops with unforgiveness.  

By a parent's forgiveness, the family is free to heal and get on with freedom and joy in God's purpose.  So, we will give no more time for the evil in our lives to rule.  It is God who gets our thoughts.

Finally, I think it is Godly wisdom to "put away the fine china..."   Can you think of any verses where this principle is illustrated?  I don't know where the verses are, but when Jesus slipped out of the synagogue, He put distance between Him and the would-be murderers.  David certainly left his attackers, so did Tamar...any others?

God bless you!  It's always good to be here on CU and read your thoughts!    Selahjoy*

Thank you for your kind words. This entire thread is very provactive, in the very best use of the term.

I think the redemption of man is the largest example of having to rebuild the trust in a relationship in the Bible. The parable of the prodigal son is, I believe, a summary for long story of God and humanity. God's forgiveness has already been granted to us by the actions of Christ, but we have to acknowledge why He died before our sins are absolved. I have noticed when people say that they're sorry, especially in intimate relationships, what they mean is that they're sorry that they got caught or that their actions have hampered their pleasure or peace in some way.

I think forgiveness is very addictive; The greater you forgive, the more you want to forgive. Once you forgive the major things like a rape or a murder, the more you realize how freeing it is.

When I was two, I watched my sister be molested. The way the man was able to do it and keep her silence was by threatening my life and the rest of my family. Growing up, my sister was unable to lash out at the man who hurt her, so she would kick the crap out of me. The man managed to molest a disgusting amount of children because the man was a missionary, was very intelligent, and knew all the right things to say to sincere Christians. When he admitted what he did, they immediately forgave and forgot. He destroyed the childhoods of many people, but the thing that I have noticed as we have grown up is that the people who have forgiven him and what he has done are the most successful. After a very long time, I was able to forgive him and my sister for her actions; I'm at peace. My sister has never forgiven him, and it was destroyed her life.

Forgiveness isn't even about justice. The man has never been convicted in a court of law because most of his crimes happened in another country. It's about freeing yourself from the obligation to be intertwined with your abuser.

[Bronzesnake]

Thank you for your kind words. This entire thread is very provactive, in the very best use of the term.

I think the redemption of man is the largest example of having to rebuild the trust in a relationship in the Bible. The parable of the prodigal son is, I believe, a summary for long story of God and humanity. God's forgiveness has already been granted to us by the actions of Christ, but we have to acknowledge why He died before our sins are absolved. I have noticed when people say that they're sorry, especially in intimate relationships, what they mean is that they're sorry that they got caught or that their actions have hampered their pleasure or peace in some way.

I think forgiveness is very addictive; The greater you forgive, the more you want to forgive. Once you forgive the major things like a rape or a murder, the more you realize how freeing it is.

When I was two, I watched my sister be molested. The way the man was able to do it and keep her silence was by threatening my life and the rest of my family. Growing up, my sister was unable to lash out at the man who hurt her, so she would kick the crap out of me. The man managed to molest a disgusting amount of children because the man was a missionary, was very intelligent, and knew all the right things to say to sincere Christians. When he admitted what he did, they immediately forgave and forgot. He destroyed the childhoods of many people, but the thing that I have noticed as we have grown up is that the people who have forgiven him and what he has done are the most successful. After a very long time, I was able to forgive him and my sister for her actions; I'm at peace. My sister has never forgiven him, and it was destroyed her life.

Forgiveness isn't even about justice. The man has never been convicted in a court of law because most of his crimes happened in another country. It's about freeing yourself from the obligation to be intertwined with your abuser

 Tabitha, my sister, I am heart sick for the pain and evil you witnessed as a child. The sad thing  (besides the obvious) is that I hear the same type of stories from so many women. My wife and I are foster parents, and we have a young girl who was also molested, but by her own father. Her sister was molested also. The father killed himself after it all came out. He didn't have the courage to face the consequences.

 The girls still love him, and have forgiven him as best they can. Forgiveness is so powerful, and those who forgive are freed from the bonds of evil that are done against them, as you have pointed out Tabitha. I also feel that the perpetrators must face up to their acts. It's not OK to simply be forgiven. When men do such things they must face up to it.

 I've heard stories of men who have admitted such acts in church to their pastors. They were truly repentant for deeds done when they were "younger" I say, it's good to get it out in the open, but it cannot stop there. True repentance dictates that these men must pay their debt to society when a crime such as that has been committed. Or is it enough for the victim to forgive?

 Any thoughts?

[Shammu]

They were truly repentant for deeds done when they were "younger" I say, it's good to get it out in the open, but it cannot stop there. True repentance dictates that these men must pay their debt to society when a crime such as that has been committed. Or is it enough for the victim to forgive?

Any thoughts?

Brother John,

As you knowq in my case, it was enough for me to forgive. As long as Henry has repentanced, against his sin. What he has done, and is doing I fully believe he is repentanced of his sin. I have forgiven Henry, he may need never to worry about me. He also know that, he may e-mail me for information on the Bible. I will bring, or send him the information he needs.

Resting with the Lord.
Bob

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you in (with) water because of repentance [that is, because of your changing your minds for the better, heartily amending your ways, with abhorrence of your past sins]. But He Who is coming after me is mightier than I, Whose sandals I am not worthy or fit to take off or carry; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

[Tabitha]

Tabitha, my sister, I am heart sick for the pain and evil you witnessed as a child. The sad thing  (besides the obvious) is that I hear the same type of stories from so many women. My wife and I are foster parents, and we have a young girl who was also molested, but by her own father. Her sister was molested also. The father killed himself after it all came out. He didn't have the courage to face the consequences.

 The girls still love him, and have forgiven him as best they can. Forgiveness is so powerful, and those who forgive are freed from the bonds of evil that are done against them, as you have pointed out Tabitha. I also feel that the perpetrators must face up to their acts. It's not OK to simply be forgiven. When men do such things they must face up to it.

I've heard stories of men who have admitted such acts in church to their pastors. They were truly repentant for deeds done when they were "younger" I say, it's good to get it out in the open, but it cannot stop there. True repentance dictates that these men must pay their debt to society when a crime such as that has been committed. Or is it enough for the victim to forgive?

Any thoughts?

I think it depends on how it comes out. In the case of the man that molested my sister, he only said he was sorry when the first (to our knowledge) children he victimized told someone. He never came forth with his crimes until it was already out in the open. That should be a first clue. I think in a lot of these cases, the people are genuinely sorry that they got caught or caused pain to children, but not for the action itself. I believe that child molestation become an addiction for the child molester, and they are in desperate need of psychological help. I believe that God will absolve you of all things if you admit that these things are in violation of God's law. I don't know if criminal actions should be taken against a person that admits to their crimes of their own freewill. But I do think that they have an obligation to the children and the children's parents to tell them what they did. A child may not remember that s/he was abused, but I guarantee that s/he knows something happened; the parents have a right know so that they can get the child the help that s/he needs.

The church also has an obligation to help the molester; I think that the vast majority of sexual predators are victims of sexual abuse themselves. They are basically injured children who have dug themselves so deep into sin that they do not, cannot, help themselves get out of it. Christ loves them too. And as a church we have the duty to make sure that they are not tempted to abuse again. After the man was forgiven, the organization did not tell alert the parents or the other facilty to what this man did and they did not restrict his activities with children, and as a result, he preyed on the children of other missionaries and the people he was supposed to be saving.